Schools: Expenditure Per Pupil

Lord Nash Excerpts

Wednesday 4th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the average spend per pupil in the state-funded education sector for 11 to 18 year-olds; and how that figure compares to the average spend per pupil in the private sector for the same age group.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools (Lord Nash) (Con)]

My Lords, we estimate that state schools received revenue and capital funding of £6,350 per pupil in 2012-13, compared to independent day schools, which received £11,510. These figures cover pupils aged three to 19 years old, as there is no available breakdown of either figure to cover the requested age range of 11 to 18 year-olds. We cannot provide data relating to 2013-14, as these are not yet available.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that unexpectedly helpful reply. We can accept from what he said that there is clearly a significant difference between the amounts of money being spent on children in maintained schools and those in independent schools. The House has often heard the Minister extol the virtues of the independent schools, and I acknowledge that there is a lot to admire in the best of them, but would he acknowledge that to use as he does the achievements of that privileged and exclusive sector as a stick with which to beat maintained schools is neither fair nor reasonable? Would he further agree that what parents who can afford to pay are buying—and I speak with authority on this matter—is not narrow focus on academic achievement, important as that may be, but a broad curriculum that properly values, for example, sport, music, drama and the humanities, the very subjects now fighting to avoid marginalisation under the Government’s new national curriculum arrangements?

[Lord Nash]

The noble Baroness is quite right that we cannot make the comparison, for the reasons that she states. I am delighted that she found my Answer helpful; we are always here to be as helpful as we can. I do not seek to use the independent sector as a stick to beat the state sector, but I personally find it quite shocking that 7% of the population go to private schools yet they take more than half the top jobs and more than 40% of the places in our top universities. That is a level of social immobility that I am sure we are all determined to change, without wishing in any way to knock either the state or independent sector.

I agree entirely that all pupils should receive a broad and balanced curriculum. The noble Baroness has vast experience of the performing arts. In their contributions to the “Best Eight” measure, there will be plenty of opportunity for schools to make a showing on a broad and balanced basis with subjects such as drama and music.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Would my noble friend agree that it is important to bear in mind that more than one-third of pupils in independent schools pay reduced fees? Would not that proportion be even larger if the Labour Party had not abolished Margaret Thatcher’s marvellous assisted places scheme?

[Lord Nash]

I am fully aware that the independent sector provides bursaries of £300 million a year to pupils whose parents might otherwise not be able to afford to send them there, and that there are many examples of independent/state school partnerships. More than 90% of the Independent Schools Council members, 1,100 of them, support activities such as co-sponsorship of academies, or sponsorship—34 schools do that, while 388 schools provide specific lessons or other educational activities to state school pupils. Our ambition in this Government is to support all state schools and to improve their performance.

[Lord Storey (LD)]

My noble friend will be aware that the Charities Act 2011 can allow leeway for independent schools to claim charitable status if they are deemed to be of public benefit. Can the Minister make an assessment of how independent schools can further justify that they deserve this status by sharing facilities with state-educated children in the local community, thereby enhancing their education and opportunities?

[Lord Nash]

I have already mentioned the independent/state school partnerships, which are very active. I also mentioned bursaries. Precise assessment is impossible but we are keen to encourage, in any way we can, the independent sector to support the state sector. Despite the difference in finances there is a lot that both sectors can learn from each other. We should encourage the independent sector to engage with the state sector, rather than seek to berate it in any way.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I presume that the noble Lord will acknowledge that most public schools are, quite rightly, proud of their sporting achievements and their extensive sports facilities. As the noble Lord has committed himself to tackling the challenge of social mobility, how can this Government justify selling off so many sports fields? I think it was 50 state sports facilities at the last count. This obviously puts children in state schools at a disadvantage.

[Lord Nash]

As the noble Baroness said to me recently, I was not around, but I think our record on this is rather better than that of the party opposite. Indeed, we now have a very strong presumption that schools cannot sell off their sports facilities unless they are replacing them with equivalent ones. We are very keen to see all new schools have sports facilities. Where we are building schools in confined spaces, which we often are, we have used artificial turf or maybe sports facilities on the roof. We consistently now use games such as table tennis and basketball, which can be played by many pupils in confined spaces.

[Baroness Oppenheim-Barnes (Con)]

My Lords, does the 7% that my noble friend cited as being high achievers include those children in this country who have the finest free education in the world at our remaining grammar schools?

[Lord Nash]

There is no doubt that our grammar schools provide an extremely good education. It is an interesting fact that, whereas 7% of the population get 50% of the top jobs, the grammar schools, which educate about 4.5% of the population, get more than 20% of the top jobs. This means that 90% of the population are getting into under 30% of the top jobs. It is that kind of inequality, particularly for poorer pupils, that this Government are particularly determined to improve.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

In view of the huge fees at Eton College, does the Minister agree that Stanley Johnson should ask for his money back?

[Lord Nash]

I do not.