House of Lords: Reform

Lord Naseby Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby]

My Lords, in preparing for today’s debate, on Saturday I read the Financial Times and the Leader of the House’s comments that he expected the Bill if it became an Act to be enacted by 2015. Your Lordships will of course remember that 2015 is 800 years after the signing of Magna Carta. It seemed rather ironic that we would be celebrating across the two Houses the one time when the then House of Lords brought the King to his senses and brought him to account. On the one hand we would be celebrating that wonderful event and, on the other hand, the current House of Lords would be sent packing and some new institution put in its place.

Whichever way we look at it, in my judgment, that new institution would be to create a competitor to the House of Commons, thereby destroying the unique democratic accountability of that House. While I am mentioning history, perhaps I may gently point out to the noble Lord, Lord Luce, and the noble Lord, Lord Hennessy, who wrote in The House magazine, that it is entirely correct that Cromwell removed the House of Lords. But it is worth pointing out that he reappointed the House of Lords, albeit with some 40 cronies of his following.

Your Lordships will be aware that I usually get up in your Lordships' House to ask what I hope is a difficult Question of our Front Bench. I do not wish to embarrass it from a political point of view, but I try to get it to nail down exactly what a situation is. Two recent examples would be the Question on Somali pirates and, a couple of weeks ago, a Question on the Payments Council and the demise of cheques.

With the permission of your Lordships, I will ask several short questions. I expect the Front Bench not necessarily to answer them this evening, which would be impossible, or necessarily to answer them all tomorrow evening when I shall be in my place. But I say to my noble friends on the Front Bench that the questions I am asking need a clear answer from Her Majesty’s Government. As the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, is sitting in her place and is a member of the new scrutiny committee being appointed, I hope that she will be able to follow the questions that I am going to ask. I will not try to give the answers, so they will be short, sharp questions.

First, how exactly will the proposals maintain the primacy of the House of Commons? That is a key question. Secondly, how will the Government’s aim of elected Members not having constituency responsibilities be delivered, not least when, as I understand it, we are to have an STV system, as proclaimed in the Bill? Thirdly, how will, as claimed in the White Paper on page 9, a different voting system help to maintain the primacy of the House of Commons and ensure that the second Chamber remains complementary to the first?

Fourthly, how will elected Members be accountable, given that they will serve single, non-renewable terms? Fifthly, how much will it cost and will the Government in their forecast costs give a breakdown to your Lordships on how those costs are arrived at, so that for once in our lives we can see what the true cost is estimated to be?

I have two further groups of questions. Who would stand for election for single 15-year terms? What sort of person is likely to stand? What is the profile of the expected Member who will do that 15-year stint? Finally, how will the independent element be maintained in a wholly elected House? How will those appointed Members be able to stand up to the elected 80 per cent majority of the elected Members? Those are the questions I ask and I expect to find answers in the wind-up, in a paper in the Library, in a further White Paper or whatever my noble friends on the Front Bench want to use as a means of answer. I am not making my comments: I am expecting Her Majesty’s Government just to answer those simple, straightforward questions.

I conclude with the observation that, in my judgment, what this country does best is a mixture of tradition, public service and incremental change. As far as I can see, these coalition proposals for the abolition of your Lordships’ House reject national traditions. I submit, as one who so far has voted pretty loyally with Her Majesty’s Government, that surely my Government have better things to do with their time and the money that the public give us to use. Someone at the top should be showing leadership and stop trimming to the lowest common denominator. Just for once, the Government business managers should do a risk analysis, something that is pretty common in the outside world where I still have one interest. When, at the end of the debate, they see the strength of feeling against this draft Bill, as one who follows cricket a great deal, I hope that they will recognise that it is time to draw stumps. Certainly I should make it clear that if the Motion in the name of my noble friend Lady Boothroyd, whom I had the privilege of serving with for five years, is moved, I will support it, as I expect to support every other amendment to do with this Bill if it should appear at some stage in our considerations.