Northern Ireland (Ministerial Appointments and Regional Rates) Bill

Lord Murphy of Torfaen Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 26th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Lab)]

My Lords, the remarks of the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, sum up a great deal of this very important debate. He referred to the men and women of evil who we thought had been overcome following the peace process. Clearly, they still exist, as we know, given the incident in the Ardoyne at the weekend referred to by noble Lords.

What is so good about this debate, short though it is, is that your Lordships have brought enormous wisdom and experience to it. I hope that the Minister, when he winds up, and, indeed, his right honourable friend the Secretary of State, will take great heed of the points that were made. My noble friend Lord McAvoy has already said that these Benches totally support the Bill. We support the fact that it is important to raise the regional rates. When I was Finance Minister, one of the most unpopular things I had to do was to impose rates on the people of Northern Ireland, but it had to happen, so obviously we agree with that.

Obviously, there is a need to ensure that we keep on trying to restore the institutions. A large number of your Lordships have referred in this debate to direct rule. Some in Northern Ireland—none in this Chamber, I am sure—would like direct rule to come back, because if there is direct rule—I was a direct rule Minister for five years—it means that you avoid taking difficult and nasty decisions. You ask British Ministers to do it for you and then you castigate them for doing it. At the same time, all you are as political parties are supplicants to whoever is in power—a Labour or Conservative Government. That is a wholly unsatisfactory way to run any country, let alone Northern Ireland. The noble Lord, Lord Empey, made a very important point when he said that it is so much easier to decide not to have an Assembly and to bring down the institutions than to restore them. That is at the heart of what has happened over the last couple of months. It is easy to bring down those institutions but very difficult to raise them up again.

The noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, referred to the importance of having a political generation. Certainly, over the years since the signing of the Good Friday agreement, a political generation has grown up in Northern Ireland who are used to government and to doing things. It would be a tragedy if the talents of those men and women across the community in Northern Ireland were wasted.

A very interesting comparison with the Welsh Assembly was made by the noble Lords, Lord Trimble, Lord Alderdice and Lord Empey. Indeed, my noble friend Lord Elystan-Morgan referred to it as well. When the Welsh Assembly was first established in 1999, it was a body corporate—a bit like a big local authority, if you like, although, of course, it always had Ministers. However, in the early days, the Assembly had a choice. It could, if it so wished, abandon that idea and go back to the committee system of a large council. I do not advocate that as necessarily the best thing to do in Northern Ireland. However, we have to seek out the most imaginative possibilities we can find so long as they retain the principle that all members of the community in Northern Ireland support them. Such possibilities are worth a try if there is support for them. Indeed, anything that will restore devolution is worth a try.

Some of the issues under discussion can be resolved—for example, that of the Irish language. We have experience in Wales of the Welsh Language Act and of Welsh medium schools. We now have, although this was not the case originally, a consensus on the Welsh language. For many years it caused a hugely difficult political situation in Wales. People took very different views on the issue of the language and it was heavily politicised. I do not think that that is now the case in Wales because of what has happened over the last 20 years. I know, for example, that Alun Davies, a Minister in the Welsh Government, is very willing—indeed, he recently wrote an article in the Western Mail—to give advice to Ministers and others in Northern Ireland on how proposals for the Irish language can work alongside those for the Welsh language. The idea is to compare them and look at best practice to ensure that the arrangement is consensual rather than causing confrontation.

I take the point that the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, made about legacy, but I think that there is a worthwhile proposition in the consultation. Anything that means that people continue to talk about how to deal with the past must, in itself, be a good thing.

Another contentious issue in the Assembly is petitions of concern, whereby everybody has a sort of mutual veto. It was never meant to be like that following the Good Friday agreement, but it needs to be addressed.

Your Lordships are not really working on these issues with a very promising back-cloth. There is no doubt that Brexit divides people in Northern Ireland and that the border and the relationship with the Republic of Ireland are hugely significant. Those things are bound to play a part in the forthcoming general election in Northern Ireland. They cannot be avoided—what is there is there. Nor can the general election be avoided. It is not the best thing to happen in the middle of talks in Northern Ireland but it is there. All I would say from these Benches is that the Government should keep the show on the road.

I understand that the Secretary of State and his Minister in the House of Commons will be fighting their own elections. Happily, like all of us, the Minister in your Lordships’ House will have no election to fight, so I hope he will be able to ensure that some talking continues during the election period and that people keep their eyes on the issues before them. All of us who know Northern Ireland realise that whenever there is an election, there is polarisation, and I do not think that the general election will be any exception. However, that does not mean that behind the scenes work cannot still go on.

The Irish Government is an important issue. They do not have an election and they have a role to play. They could continue to have discussions with the different political parties in Northern Ireland and I hope that they will. After the election, there will be three weeks to resolve this issue. Again, the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, made a very important point. This is all about relationships, trust and confidence between people and between members of the Government. I hope and pray that between now and 29 June there will be a resolution. If there is not, I think there will be a case for the Prime Minister—whoever that might be—to go to Northern Ireland with the Taoiseach to ensure that the talks are put up a step. That might not be necessary but I know that every Member of this House wishes the Government and the political parties well in resolving these extremely difficult issues.

Northern Ireland Assembly Election

Lord Murphy of Torfaen Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

First, I acknowledge the role that the noble Lord has played in the past in helping to set up the situation in which we have had the longest unbroken period of devolved government. Yes, of course, the Government are very alive to the seriousness of the situation, and it is absolutely clear that there has been a breakdown in the relationship between the two main governing parties. That is why we must use all the period between now and the election to maintain the lines of communication so that, in that three-week period that emerges following the election, we can create the conditions in which we stand the best chance of putting together a fully functioning Executive.

[Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Lab)]

Will the Minister take very seriously the points that my noble friend Lord Hain made on the issues that need to be confronted in Northern Ireland? In the forthcoming month there will not be much time to talk to the political leadership in Northern Ireland, of all the parties, but the Northern Ireland Office knows what those issues are, and it must work overtime so that on 3 March the issues to which my noble friend and others have referred will be looked at and examined by the Northern Ireland Office and the Secretary of State, so that that solutions might be found and put on the table. It is not just about listening, although of course that is hugely important; it is about giving some ideas as well.

Secondly, as I said last week, there is a very important role for the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach in all this, so that when the elections are over they too play a very full part in trying to come to a solution.

[Lord Dunlop]

I thank the noble Lord, who has also played a very honourable and noble role in the peace process and in establishing and laying the ground for the period of devolved rule that we have had. On his second point, clearly the Prime Minister is actively involved. In the last 24 hours, she has spoken to the Taoiseach, Arlene Foster and Martin McGuinness. But as I think the noble Lord implicitly acknowledges, it is right in the first instance for the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to take the lead, which he has been doing—and, of course, the Prime Minister stands ready to do all that she can to assist the process and discharge our primary responsibility for safeguarding the political stability of Northern Ireland. So we will use the period ahead to best effect to ensure that we are in the best position once the election is over.

Northern Ireland: Political Developments

Lord Murphy of Torfaen Excerpts

Tuesday 10th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

I am grateful to the noble Lord. I am sure he is absolutely right that, in this situation, we want the parties working together. The Secretary of State is very focused on doing that over the coming period. The noble Lord opposite made the suggestion that the Secretary of State might issue a formal invitation to a round table, and I am sure that initiatives of that sort will be considered by the Secretary of State as he continues his discussions with the parties.

[Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Lab)]

My Lords, I was a direct rule Minister for five years in Northern Ireland, and it seems to me that the last thing Northern Ireland wants is a return to direct rule. Clearly, there has been a serious breakdown of trust and confidence between the political parties in Northern Ireland. I also agree with other noble Lords that an election, frankly, would be disastrous. There is one week in which to avoid that. Does the Minister agree that the guarantors of the Belfast agreement and the others that followed are the British and Irish Governments, and that they should work together very closely and carefully over the next week—even to the point at which the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach get involved?

[Lord Dunlop]

I absolutely agree that we must, as I said in earlier remarks, strain every sinew to find a way forward. Clearly, there is contact with the Irish Government, but we must respect the constitutional priorities. What has given rise to this situation is the RHI scheme, which is a devolved matter. The constitutional position of Northern Ireland is clearly set out in the Belfast agreement and we need to respect that.

Investigatory Powers Bill

Lord Murphy of Torfaen Excerpts

3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 31st October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb]

I think that we will find in the future that this legislation will return again and again to bite us, and many of us here will regret having passed it.

[Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Lab)]

My Lords, I disagree with the noble Baroness, Lady Jones. She played an important role in the course of this Bill in reminding your Lordships of the need to deal with the liberty of the citizen. But the greatest threat to the liberty of the citizen is the threat to life. This Bill, which is now in its final stage, is extremely important in ensuring that in future our citizens are protected against terrorism and the threats that face this country and beyond.

Of course, there were and are still issues that need to be taken very seriously with regard to the liberty of the subject. But in all the years that I have been in Parliament, I have not seen as much scrutiny of a Bill as this one. Not only did the Joint Committee, which I had the honour to chair, go through all the details of the Bill over a number of months, the other committees in Parliament also dealt with it, not least the Intelligence and Security Committee.

I commend the Government—not something that I usually do, but I will on this occasion—on accepting a great number of amendments to the Bill, which have improved it in the sense of ensuring that our liberties are safeguarded but that the basic thrust of the Bill remains the same. This has been a tremendous exercise in parliamentary scrutiny. As my noble friend Lord Rooker said, it is Parliament’s Bill as much as it is the Government’s.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, for making his point at this stage. This is an important Bill. It will update the framework for the use of investigatory powers to obtain communications for the foreseeable future. But it not only provides powers, it provides safeguards that are clear and understandable: the double lock for the most intrusive powers; the creation of a new Investigatory Powers Commissioner; important safeguards on oversight in respect of legal professional privilege and in respect of journalistic material; a government response to David Anderson’s review in respect of bulk materials; and extensive consultation with the bodies affected by investigatory powers.

What we have today is the product in this House of cross-party collaboration. The parties opposite have taken an incredibly constructive and reasonable approach during the Bill’s passage and we are sending a significant number of changes back to the House of Commons. But those changes are evidence of the constructive engagement from all sides in this House. I particularly note the contributions of the noble Lords, Lord Rosser, Lord Rooker and Lord West, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and from the Liberal Democrat Benches the noble Lords, Lord Paddick, Lord Carlile and Lord Lester, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee. Indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Strasburger, also contributed to our debates on this matter. Of course, members of the ISC and Members on the Cross Benches have taken a great interest in the passage of this Bill. I cite the noble Lords, Lord Butler and Lord Pannick, and the noble and learned Lords, Lord Judge and Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood, and I am sure that I have missed many others. But this expression is intended for all Members of the House who have taken this matter forward and produced a Bill that we can send back to the other place with confidence, subject possibly to one amendment.

Northern Ireland (Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan) Bill

Lord Murphy of Torfaen Excerpts

Thursday 21st April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Lab)]

My Lords, when I was asked to help out this afternoon, I reflected that it is 22 years, I think, since I last spoke from a Dispatch Box on Northern Ireland matters. It is 20 years since the noble Lord, Lord Empey, and I, and many others in the Chamber today, worked on the Good Friday agreement. I have a great deal of time for the noble Lord and for what he said about equivalence, which was echoed by the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames. There is no equivalence whatever between what the Armed Forces of the state do in the performance of their duty to protect our citizens and what terrorists do. Therefore the essence of what the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said was right on that.

The noble Lord, Lord Rogan, was also right to bring to your Lordships’ House the importance of the victims issue. When he spoke, it reminded me of how many people have been affected physically or mentally by the Troubles over the past 30 or 40 years. It is an immense number. However, in the end, I am bound to agree with the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, about when we deal with this issue. It has to be dealt with, and he, above all, I suppose, has been dealing with this for many years now. I understand from the Government that the reason there are no legacy clauses in the Bill is that there has yet to be agreement among the parties in Northern Ireland on what they should be. I hope that there will be agreement on that over the next months and that perhaps in the Queen’s Speech there will be a Bill dealing with legacy issues. It is probably then that we will have to look at definitions of victims and survivors because it will be the result of intense negotiation and discussion. Therefore, although the Opposition have much sympathy with the points put in this amendment by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, we think the timing should be later and should be the result of discussions in Belfast and of further legislation.

[Lord Browne of Belmont]

My Lords, this amendment is essentially concerned with the definition or redefinition of a victim. This is one of the most sensitive issues which still have to be dealt with. People who have suffered most throughout years of terrorism in Northern Ireland and throughout Great Britain must be treated in an appropriate and sympathetic manner. They all deserve to have their plight recognised and their voice listened to. It was disappointing that the problem of confronting the past was not resolved during the recent talks, but I am confident and remain optimistic that, after the election of a new Assembly on 5 May, every effort will be made to come a consensus on this matter. I particularly welcome and congratulate the Minister on holding a briefing with all the interested parties. I am confident that in the not too distant future this House will receive legislation to deal with this matter.

I should make it clear that my party believes that the definition of a victim is wrong and needs to be looked at and possibly changed. As part of those plans, the party proposes that the perpetrators of violence during the Troubles are not defined as victims. The Victims and Survivors (Northern Ireland) Order 2006 makes no distinction between paramilitaries who were killed or injured and other victims. It is therefore important at some stage to look at possibly narrowing the scope of the definition of a victim. I want to see the peace process moving on and a Northern Ireland that puts the past behind it, but in dealing with the past, it is important that we should not be prepared to countenance a rewriting of the Troubles whereby the perpetrators of acts of terrorism, whoever they are, are placed on a par with the thousands of people who were killed or maimed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Browne of Belmont]

My Lords, I support Amendment 4, proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Empey. As I have said before, Northern Ireland goes to the polls on 5 May and it is only right that anyone who engages or supports paramilitarism should have no place in a democratic institution. Newly elected Members will thus be obliged to give an undertaking to abide by the principles outlined in Clause 8 and Schedule 2.

I fully concur with the noble Lord, Lord Empey, that it is only right and proper that, when a Member of a legislative Assembly gives an undertaking and then is seen to breach that undertaking, within Standing Orders there should be a robust mechanism, first, to enable an investigation of any alleged breach of the undertaking, and, if proved, surely there should be sanctions that can be enforced. Otherwise, the undertaking those Members take will be meaningless. If not, the public in Northern Ireland will have little confidence in their elected Members and in the operation of the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Of course, it is only right that the Northern Ireland Assembly should prescribe the nature of the sanction, but surely, as we have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, it is for the sovereign Parliament to ensure that the Standing Orders of the Northern Ireland Assembly reflect the need for such sanctions.

[Lord Murphy of Torfaen]

My Lords, again, I express a lot of sympathy with what the noble Lord, Lord Empey, and other noble Lords have said with regard to this amendment. There is no doubt that, if you have a pledge of office, there is not much point in having one unless you can enforce it. Your Lordships will recall that, during the course of the talks which led up to the Good Friday agreement, both Sinn Fein and a paramilitary party were excluded from them because they were seen to breach a similar sort of pledge. Therefore, in a way, this has run through negotiations in Northern Ireland politics for a long time.

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Browne, that this is an issue of public confidence. There is no point in having the pledge, as the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said at Second Reading, unless it is enforceable. However, at the same time we know, and the Minister will undoubtedly tell us, that the Bill needs to go through quickly because of the election and other reasons. Therefore, how do you deal with a situation which is significant but which you are reluctant to legislate on because of the necessity of having to deal with it quickly?

I take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, who was absolutely right that there are other ways of dealing with this. That is, the Secretary of State and Minister can return to Northern Ireland at the point when further discussions are held on these matters, ensure that the debate is held here and in the other place, and that there is cross-party support for the need for Standing Orders to express a view that, if the pledges are breached, there should be some method by which you can enforce some sort of punishment. What that would be I am sure would be a matter for great debate and negotiation, but it has to be addressed. Otherwise, the pledges are hollow and meaningless.

It seems to me that, during the course of the negotiations that led up to the fresh start agreement, people accepted the idea that there should be a pledge—obviously, it would not be in front of us otherwise. I am sure, although I do not know, that they must have talked about the enforceability of sanctions. So the ball is now in the Government’s court, and although it is not practical or feasible for this legislation to deal with it, it is practical and feasible for the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to go back and talk with the political parties and try to get agreement.

[Lord Dunlop]

My Lords, this has been a short but important debate. Clause 8 makes provision for a new undertaking to be given by all Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly, in line with the fresh start agreement. To be clear with the Committee, it was necessary to introduce this undertaking through Westminster legislation because the Assembly is prohibited by the Northern Ireland Act from introducing a requirement for its Members to make an oath or declaration as a condition of taking office. The Assembly has established mechanisms for holding MLAs to account for their adherence to the existing Assembly code of conduct, through the Assembly Committee on Standards and Privileges and the independent Commissioner for Standards. The Assembly already has the power to introduce measures to investigate alleged breaches of the undertaking and to impose sanctions for any such breaches.

The amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Empey, assumes that Standing Orders would be the obvious vehicle for introducing any such measures, but this is not necessarily the only vehicle. For example, it may be open to the Assembly to legislate. There may of course be other options, and it is right that the Assembly should be able to debate and explore the available options for itself. Indeed, the whole issue of devolution was mentioned by my noble friend Lord Trimble. There is considerable value in the Assembly and not this House determining how MLAs should be held to account for any breaches of the new undertaking, just as this House holds its Members to account for their behaviour. Any such measures would of course need to be built upon cross-community support in the Assembly, and it must be right that Assembly Members should be subject to scrutiny for their conduct.

To answer the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, the Government will of course encourage the Assembly to consider carefully how this might be achieved. However, for the reasons I have given, I urge the noble Lord to withdraw this amendment.

Northern Ireland (Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan) Bill

Lord Murphy of Torfaen Excerpts

Tuesday 12th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Lab)]

My Lords, I support the Bill, which is very important, but before I comment on some of its clauses, as I look around your Lordships’ Chamber I see almost an action replay of 1998. So many Members of your Lordships’ House were with me and others when we discussed the Good Friday agreement back in the spring of 1998. We are all 20 or so years older, and I suppose we never thought that we would be discussing the same issues in this Chamber—but we are. Those noble Lords who were there will recall that at the very end of the afternoon of Good Friday 1998, the chairman of the talks, Senator George Mitchell, said that although the talks were over this was actually the beginning, not the end, of progress in Northern Ireland.

When I look back over the past 18 years at the different agreements that have been dealt with—the St Andrews agreement and all the others, and of course today the Stormont House agreement and the fresh start agreement—I see nothing wrong with that. I rather fancy that there will be more agreements for this House and the other place to consider in the months and years to come.

But today, of course, we are dealing with a specific Bill in front of us. A theme in all those agreements was the issue of continuing paramilitary activity. The deaths that Northern Ireland has witnessed over the past months are of course tragic, but they in no way compare in numbers to what occurred many years ago. But the fact is that paramilitary activity still exists in some form or another in Northern Ireland. Therefore, the two Governments agreeing to the Independent Reporting Commission is, I think, certainly the way forward. I hope that when the First Minister and Deputy First Minister look at the appointment of members to that commission they will bear in mind the fact—I am sure they will—that there has to be general consensus as to who should sit on it, otherwise it simply will not have the confidence of people in Northern Ireland.

I welcome the fact that there are new pledges of office for Ministers and Members of the Assembly. The Minister quite rightly pointed out that the Assembly itself will have to consider the issue of any sanctions that might be applied were those pledges to be broken.

A lot of the difficulties that Northern Ireland has faced over the past months have been because of disagreements over welfare. When I was the Minister for finance in Northern Ireland, I have to tell the House that I was perplexed that Northern Ireland still had the function that, effectively, the welfare legislation and details here in Great Britain could technically be different from those in Northern Ireland. In reality, they never were. I hope that, in the months ahead, the Assembly might consider looking at what is happening in Scotland with regard to welfare and see whether Northern Ireland could learn from the new welfare powers that the Scottish Parliament has so that they could look at it in a rather special way for Northern Ireland.

I am pleased, too, that the Assembly is looking at the number of its Members. I rather fancy that it will be a bit more scientific than the way that we decided it during the night of Maundy Thursday and the morning of Good Friday in 1998, when the noble Lord, Lord Empey, and others came to see me at about 3 am to decide how many Members of the Assembly there should be. We decided that six per parliamentary constituency was the answer. Looking back with hindsight, that was probably too many, but the Assembly will now decide that itself, as well as the number of departments of the Northern Ireland Executive. It is also very sensible that 14 days will now be given for Assembly Ministers to be allocated their portfolio.

The Good Friday agreement was not written in stone, in the sense that as the years went by, adaptions could take place and reviews could happen, so long as there was agreement generally among the political parties in Northern Ireland for such changes to be made.

It is a disappointment—the Minister has indicated why it is the case—that in the Bill there is no reference to the legacy issues in Northern Ireland and to dealing with the past. I do not think that Northern Ireland can finally be settled until we deal with those issues. Although some very good ideas came from the various discussions over the last two years—it is good that the Minister is going to discuss them with Members of this House over the next 24 hours—that issue has to be addressed. There is no question in my mind that the issue of victims and survivors, and of our communities in Northern Ireland, is dependent on how we can deal with the past.

I am glad to see in the Chamber the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, who, together with Mr Bradley, came up with some very interesting ideas in their report, together with the ideas that came from Ambassador Haass later on. There is a lot of work to be done, but I hope that that issue will be addressed as soon as possible.

We have, of course, an election in Northern Ireland in May, as we do in Scotland and in Wales. Everybody involved in politics in Northern Ireland knows that, in a way, political development is frozen until those elections are over because of the importance of fighting them. Every political party understands that; it is what democracy is about. But when those elections are over, there will be a number of years that are election-free in Northern Ireland. The opportunities that can then be given to the political leaders, political parties and others in Northern Ireland to look very carefully at the institutions and where we go will be invaluable.

There are, of course, obstacles in the way. The first comes only a month or so after those elections to the Northern Ireland Assembly and it is the referendum on our membership of the European Union. It is my firm belief that, were we to withdraw from membership, it would be of huge disadvantage to the people of the island of Ireland north and south. I have no doubt that our joint membership with the Republic of Ireland of the European Union meant that the peace process went more smoothly and developed in a way that it could not have done had we not both been members of the same club. I believe that the distribution of peace money among the different communities in Northern Ireland was pivotal in ensuring that relations between those communities improved. As far as I am concerned—although I understand that there will be different views in Northern Ireland—that is a huge issue which now faces specifically people in Northern Ireland.

That applies also to what happens in Scotland. I am deeply opposed to Scottish independence, but I have no doubt that the issue will be resurrected soon. If Scotland goes it alone and becomes independent, that could have serious consequences for Northern Ireland—as it will do for my own country of Wales. So these are difficulties which we face there.

One thing that struck me very dramatically when I was a Minister in Northern Ireland and then Secretary of State was that I had no right as a Member of Parliament for a Welsh constituency to rule in that place. Direct rule was infinitely and badly wrong. It should never have occurred, and I felt uneasy all the time at the fact that I had to take decisions on behalf of people who should be taking them themselves. So I welcome this Bill, because it means that we will continue to have the institutions up and running in Northern Ireland in a fresh way through a fresh start. We never want to return to those days where there was direct rule.

But there is a lot of thinking to be done in Northern Ireland in the years that are election free. We should harness academic thinking in Northern Ireland because there are many very good people there who can think about where we go. Let us look at civil society in general and at how people who are not necessarily directly involved in politics can help out in the way ahead. The Civic Forum never really took off in the way that the agreement thought it might do, but there is an opportunity there, too. Perhaps the most significant thing is to ensure that a new generation understands that they have a huge responsibility in ensuring the continuing prosperity and stability of Northern Ireland.

Eighteen years is a long time. It means that you would have to be in your mid or late 30s now to have understood when you were young what was happening in 1998. A whole generation has gone by, and the danger is that complacency can set in—that things can become too cosy and that people can become too cynical about politicians in Northern Ireland. All those things are bad, because, although we perhaps live in an age of anti-politics, Northern Ireland would not be where it is today had it not been for the risks that were taken by Northern Ireland politicians over the last 20 years in ensuring that we have a stable institution there.

So I hope that younger men and women will be attracted to the business of politics in Northern Ireland and will be able to take part in what I am sure will be a good future for all the people of Northern Ireland, irrespective of their religion, traditions or background.