Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Lord Morris of Handsworth Excerpts

Wednesday 5th December 2012 Grand Committee

[Lord Morris of Handsworth]

My Lords, I, too, take the opportunity to give my support to the amendment before the Committee. I do so not just on the basis of my own past membership of ACAS but of the contribution that the organisation makes in the overall sphere of industrial relations. We have an institution with two special qualities: trust and confidence. That is what ACAS brings to the whole arena and the debate about industrial relations. It is respected on all sides of the argument; indeed, many overseas industrial relations forums look to ACAS for guidance and support. At a time when we are seeking to expand the economy, looking for growth and looking to develop new areas of economic activity, it seems we should be giving strength and support to the institutions that would enable stability in the workplace.

What is in the Bill so far represents a start but needs to go much further. I genuinely hope that in the course of this Committee’s deliberations, the overall value of what ACAS represents, brings to the table and can offer for the future will be strengthened much more than we have experienced; and that we do not see ACAS become part of what I call the “industrial football”, being kicked from one side of industrial ideology to another.

I hope that when the Bill has passed through its stages here, it will provide for ACAS the support structure for a new and invigorated form of industrial relations, strong and able to take its rightful place in the resolution of disputes. We will always have disputes, irrespective of how meaningfully we conduct our workplace relationships. On that basis, I support the amendment before the Grand Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Morris of Handsworth]

It is accepted that ultimately the decision is on a point of law, but the law is guided by the facts of the case. Therefore, it is important to recognise that facts guide law. On the basis of what has been said so far, it seems to me that we are turning the argument on its head in thinking that it is only law and not fact.

[Baroness Brinton]

Does the Minister agree that appeals on employment law are set firmly in the context of employment practice? Concepts such as the range of reasonable response depend on a good understanding of how a reasonable employer would in practice handle a dismissal. Therefore there is a value to having lay members assisting the judge in that decision.