Procedure and Privileges Committee
Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord McAvoy
The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith) [V]
My Lords, the report proposes a number of recommendations to the House for changes to the Standing Orders and the Companion to the Standing Orders. As we explain in the report, these were agreed at the committee’s meetings on 27 January and 9 March this year. At the time of those meetings, new editions of both the Standing Orders and the Companion were thought to be imminent, and the committee decided to present all the changes to the House when these new editions were ready. Work on the new editions was, however, paused when the coronavirus pandemic started, and the procedures underpinning the virtual and hybrid proceedings became the focus. More recently, on 6 October, the committee agreed changes to procedures regarding legislative consent Motions and we have decided to wrap up all the outstanding changes in this one report.
I shall briefly explain each of the changes outlined in the report. The changes to the process for taking a leave of absence from the House are to avoid any ambiguity in the use of the leave of absence procedure and to safeguard against Members using a leave of absence as an alternative to retirement from the House.
With regard to committee member rotations, we recommend that from January 2021, all Select Committee member rotations should take place at the start of each January. We recognise the unique situation of the European Union Committee and recommend that any “normal” rotation of EU Committee membership should be deferred until any changes to the structure of the EU Committee are implemented.
The Lord Speaker, Leaders, Chief Whips, Deputy Chief Whips, the Convener of the Cross Benches, the Senior Deputy Speaker and the chair of the EU Committee are already exempt from the rotation rule. We recommend that this exemption should be extended to any Member serving as a substitute for the Leaders, Chief Whips, Deputy Chief Whips or the Convener of the Cross Benches.
We recommend that Standing Order 64 should be updated to reflect the new committee names following the Liaison Committee report Review of House of Lords Investigative and Scrutiny Committees: Towards a New Thematic Committee Structure.
At our meeting on 27 January, we considered a paper proposing a number of modest changes to procedures relating to legislation. We agreed a number of those changes, and the details are set out in the committee’s report.
Noble Lords will recall that, on 24 September 2019, the Supreme Court ruled that the Prorogation of Parliament was not itself a proceeding in Parliament but was a prerogative act of the Crown. The committee therefore recommends that Standing Order 76—
“Proroguing the Parliament at close of session”—
should be deleted to avoid the implication that prorogation is a proceeding of Parliament. We also recommend a number of changes to the Companion contingent upon this.
We recommend clarifying the guidance around the use of the closure Motion to make it absolutely clear that there must be a Question before the House before the closure can be moved, and to get rid of the wording suggesting it is a “most exceptional” procedure. On the Motion “That the noble Lord be no longer heard”, the committee recommends making it explicit in the Companion, first, that this Motion prevents a Member speaking only on the specific Question before the House, rather than on the wider substantive Motion or stage; and, secondly, that it is not necessary for a Question to be before the House for “That the noble Lord be no longer heard” to be moved.
On the length of balloted debates on Thursdays, we recommend that the Companion should be amended to give the House greater flexibility to determine the length of balloted debates to more than the currently available options of two hours, two-and-a-half hours and three hours.
Lastly, I turn to legislative consent, which the committee discussed on 6 October. We recommend that when legislative consent has been refused or not yet granted by the time of Third Reading, a Minister should orally draw it to the attention of the House before Third Reading commences. In doing this, the Minister should set out the efforts that were made to secure consent and the reasons for the disagreement.
Noble Lords will no doubt have noticed a second Motion in my name on the Order Paper today, immediately following this one. That Motion seeks the House’s agreement to changes to the Standing Orders that are consequential to the recommendations in this report. I beg to move.
Lord McAvoy (Lab)
My Lords, I am sure that the whole House will pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord McFall, for the work that he has put in and the very many suggestions that he has made. I am sure the whole House will support them. However, there is one issue that has arisen; it is entirely due to the situation we find ourselves in with the coronavirus and is no reflection on the House or the noble Lord. Recently, people have sometimes been scheduled to be in two places at the same time—for a Grand Committee debate and also on the Floor of the House. Will the noble Lord look at that and see whether there is a reasonable alternative to the current situation?
The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)
If no one else in the Chamber wishes to speak, I call the Senior Deputy Speaker to reply.
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill
Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord McAvoy(13 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord McFall of Alcluith
I remind my noble friend that the Argyll and Bute constituency is a political construct from the previous Conservative Government. I well remember in 1994 pleading with the then Minister of State, Allan Stewart, “Do not take Helensburgh and put it into Argyll and Bute”. The people of Helensburgh had a difference with their representatives at the time, the Labour councillors, and rightly so, but they had a short-term interest in doing that. I represented the Helensburgh seat. Now, less than 10 years later, the Helensburgh people are saying, “It was wrong for us to go into Argyll and Bute”. The lesson is that if you carry out exercises in this House with politicians and do not include the Boundary Commission and the local element, you will get artificial constructs. That is the history of Argyll and Bute.
Lord McAvoy
I am grateful to my noble friend for sharing that local knowledge, because it is surely relevant when discussing amendments on Bills such as this one.
The noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, calculated how much one vote was worth when compared with another. How does the calculation compare Orkney and Shetland, which has an electorate of just over 32,000, with, say, Rutherglen and Hamilton West, which has an electorate of 77,000? I am not having a go at the people in Orkney and Shetland; I am making the point—I am sorry that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace of Tankerness, is no longer in his place—that a party and its supporters are taking the benefits of the toleration and support of people who quite rightly see the case for Orkney and Shetland, but those same people and the areas that benefit from that tolerance and consideration do not give an inch to other areas. The case of Argyll and Bute gets to me in particular. It is a case of “I’m all right Jack”, or “I’m all right Jim, but the rest of you have to suffer”.
The thing about this Bill and the various amendments is that a bit of a legend is being put about that I am the leader of the gang that is out to destroy this Bill. That is absolutely wrong. It is about time. I hope that the Cross-Benchers listen to what we are saying.