Health and Care Bill

Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Committee stage
Friday 4th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, before we commence proceedings on the Bill, I will outline the plan for today. We will shortly begin the eighth day in Committee on the Bill. There is no other business, but we will take a short break around 2 pm. We will sit until 7 pm. At the outset, I thank the staff of the House for supporting this additional lengthy Friday sitting, both those here in the Chamber and those who do the enormous amount of work that goes on behind the scenes to get the House up and running.

I fear that noble Lords know what I will say next. I do not want to deny the House the fullest chance to scrutinise this Bill. As over 40 hours have been devoted to that end, not even my fiercest critics could say that time for debate has been curtailed. However, we still have a lot of amendments to get through. I know, based on the experience of last Wednesday, that good progress can be made. I know that the Front Benches will work to ensure that their contributions are concise and to the point and I hope that all noble Lords will do the same.

We should perhaps bear in mind the late, great Nicholas Parsons and make our speeches without repetition, hesitation or deviation and perhaps for just a minute. This is a self-governing House, so all I can do is ask and implore noble Lords to respect the conventions and courtesies of the House to ensure effective and efficient scrutiny of this legislation.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, before calling the first amendment, I indicate that the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, will be taking part remotely.

Clause 141: Provision of social care services: financial assistance

Amendment 237

Tributes: Sir David Amess MP

Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Monday 18th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, as I explained earlier, we have to end now because the House is going to join the House of Commons and process at 5.30 pm behind the Lord Speaker to St Margaret’s. However, I am of course aware that many other noble Lords would have liked to pay tribute to Sir David today. Those Members who have not had a chance to speak may email their speeches to Hansard by noon on Friday. Those speeches will be included in a special collection of tributes published by Hansard which will be sent to Sir David’s family. I shall now adjourn the House so we can join the procession starting at 5.30 pm from the Chamber.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, Members who wish to take part in the procession to the service in St Margaret’s should wait in the Chamber as we prepare to leave in the next few minutes.

Arrangement of Business

Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Thursday 22nd July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, before we start the main business of the day, I rise to say a few words with the agreement of my noble friend the Leader of the House, the usual channels and the Convenor of the Cross-Bench Peers. Since 21 April 2020, the House has sat virtually or in hybrid fashion. Following the decisions taken by the House last week, from September we will to all intents and purposes return to our normal physical ways of working. This means that today is likely to be the last day of hybrid proceedings.

As noble Lords acknowledged in our debate in May, creating and maintaining the hybrid House was the work of many. While the hybrid House has had its frustrations and flaws for all of us, it is right to pay tribute to the staff of the House who have worked, seen and unseen, to ensure that the House continued to function for so many months. Today, at the end of the hybrid House, I thank some of the staff who have worked to maintain the hybrid proceedings. This includes those who managed the daily invitations to Members to participate; those who assisted Members with technical difficulties; and those who worked in the hub, to link the broadcasters to the Chamber. They include Eleanor Clements, who ably led the behind-the-scenes co-ordination and administration of the virtual proceedings, as well as her colleagues Maggie Barnes, Alex Brocklehurst, Simon Nicholls and Seonaid Still. I also thank Sally Freestone, David Loader and their colleagues in the Parliamentary Broadcasting Unit, and our contractors, NEP Bow Tie. I also thank all those in the Virtual Participation Administration Team and the Hub Clerk Team, which were created at the start of the pandemic to enable Members to participate virtually in the Chamber and Grand Committee. The staff on these teams volunteered to take on this work in addition to busy day jobs to keep the House running.

I am sure I speak for the whole House when I pay tribute to their unstinting professionalism, hard work and dedication—and, not least, their patience. We are very grateful, and we thank them all.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, I thank the Chief Whip for those remarks and echo his thanks to the staff of the House, the Digital Service, the Parliamentary Broadcasting Unit, the Virtual Participation Administration Team and the Hub Clerk Team. I also thank the Members of the House. This has not been an easy 18 months but technologically we have achieved much more than we ever thought possible. Our virtual and hybrid House arrangements were world leading and, importantly, we have continued to carry out our constitutional duty.

Chief Whips are not accustomed to being thanked in the Chamber, but today I do just that. The Chief Whip, together with the Leader of the House and all members of the usual channels and the Convenor, deserve our thanks. The work they do to build consensus, often in very difficult circumstances, is a great service to the House. During this period, they have worked tirelessly. Ahead of the rise of the House today, I wish all noble Lords and staff a very restful and enjoyable Summer Recess. It has never been more well deserved.

Youth Justice Statistics

Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Thursday 10th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, I just remind all noble Lords that the recommended time for a question is 30 seconds. If we could all make an effort to keep to that, I will do my best to ensure that Ministers are equally brief.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed, and we now move to the third Oral Question.

Social Care: Person-centred Dementia Care

Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Monday 17th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

The noble Baroness is muted; she needs to unmute.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

I think we will have to move on. I call the noble Lord, Lord Curry of Kirkharle.

Covid-19: Creative Industries

Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Tuesday 22nd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, I am afraid the noble Baroness is inaudible. If she would like to write to the Minister, I am sure she would be happy to answer her question.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked and we now move to the next Question.

Motor Sector: Export Markets

Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Monday 14th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, we need to have a five-minute break, as usual, so the House will adjourn until 2.06 pm.

Tobacco: Illicit Trade

Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Tuesday 14th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am afraid I do not know the answer to that, but I am sure that my noble friend will be able to tell me.

[Lord McFall of Alcluith (Lab)]

My Lords, a past parliamentary report indicated that one in three of the cigarettes sold in the shops and streets of London was illegal. Has that situation improved and can the Government give us the latest update on those figures?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

There is a big problem with the illicit trade in tobacco, although it has come down over the last 10 years. The tax gap has reduced and there has been a small reduction in the amount of smoking. As for the reduction of revenue that we get due to illicit trade, there has been a small improvement in that, down from 22% to 10% on cigarettes and from 61% to 35% on tobacco. But things change, and the problem evolves continually, so it requires a lot of extra effort. In the Budget, the Chancellor announced extra money to combat this problem.

Bank of England and Financial Services Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Monday 9th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord McFall of Alcluith (Lab)]

My Lords, I would like to make a couple of points in support of the views of the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey. The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, made the case that the court did not do very much; that was precisely the problem. It had the job of oversight and it is a matter of record that it did not do that job well. The feeling was therefore that the Bank was engaged in groupthink. It did not allow the doors of the Bank to be opened and for the outside world to understand what the Bank was doing. That closed community failed. Evidence to the Treasury Committee acknowledged that it had failed; the current governor acknowledged that it had failed in a speech at Mansion House a number of months ago, when he made three detailed points about the areas in which it failed.

This body has failed. It therefore needs to ensure that that groupthink and closed mentality is disposed of, but that cannot be disposed of by shrinking. It has to ensure that there is a wider community looking over the Bank. After all, society depends on the decisions that the Bank makes, and it is extremely important that society has confidence in the Bank. This is not just a matter for the Bank, the directors and the governor or how he feels; this is a matter of democratic accountability to Parliament and societal involvement. As the noble Lord said, two years after a change with no examination is an unacceptable way to go about business. Let us get the doors of the Bank open and ensure that we have a wider engagement and a wider debate. That will do both the Bank and society good.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have participated in this short debate. The general theme has been that the Government have not put forward a sufficient case for reducing the number of non-executives. I hope that by the end of the debate, we will have been able to elaborate on that. The noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, said that there seemed to be a pervasive feeling through the Bill that non-execs are a nuisance. That could not be further from the truth—good ones are essential, but too many non-execs are not effective. It is crucial to have very high-quality non-execs. I will come on to that as far as the court is concerned.

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, that we have got the figures right in terms of what we have at the moment and what we are going to have, but I come to completely the opposite conclusions as a result of that. I will try my best to outline the Government’s feeling and will also refer, to a certain extent, to some of the points my noble friend made about the academic evidence and the experience of commercial firms, which show that sometimes reduced numbers are more effective.

As noble Lords are aware, the Bank of England Act 1998 states that the court can contain,

“not more than 9 non-executive directors”.

This Bill does not make any alteration to this provision. Before I dive into the detail, it may be helpful to remind the Committee what we are seeking to achieve: a court that is effective in scrutinising the actions of the Bank, holding executives to account, challenging their thinking and exercising its statutory functions. A number of noble Lords have cast this debate in terms of avoiding groupthink, which I agree is very important.

Given that, there are two important factors to bear in mind about the issue we are discussing here, both of which mitigate the risk of groupthink. The first is the number of non-executive directors on the court, which the noble Lord’s amendment focuses on. The second, but no less important, factor is the quality of non-execs on the court. Let me first address the issue of numbers. Within the terms of the current legislation as written, the Government plan to reduce the number of non-execs to two. This will not weaken the court; instead, it will strengthen it.

Royal Bank of Scotland

Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Wednesday 1st July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, we have not ignored diversity. We are committed to increasing competition in banking to improve outcomes for consumers. The Government have an ambitious programme of reforms to increase competition in banking. This includes, for example, divesting both Williams & Glyn and TSB from RBS and Lloyds, creating a seven-day current account switch service, and delivering more data to enable customers to compare which bank is best for them—I could go on.

[Lord McFall of Alcluith (Lab)]

My Lords, the Chancellor of the Exchequer at the time of the bailout promised that all the money expended by the taxpayer would be recovered in full and that there would be a reformed Royal Bank of Scotland. Neither of those promises has been realised. The Royal Bank of Scotland has still to escape the shadows of seven years ago. Why is the Chancellor breaking his promise?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I do not agree that he is. The Chancellor said two years ago that he would return RBS to private hands. He is doing that. He is increasing competition. RBS has been reformed. The independent advice is that this is the best time to go forward. We have reformed the banking sector completely. I cannot agree with the noble Lord.

Greece

Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Monday 29th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am not sure that it is fundamentally flawed. The key is that the participants in the eurozone have the right economic fundamentals that allow them to go into it and play their part. As for exit, that is up to the Greeks. It is they who are having a referendum. It is not for us to tell them which way to vote. I absolutely agree with my noble friend that if they decide to exit by dint of the referendum, which is their democratic right, we should do all that we can to make it orderly.

[Lord McFall of Alcluith (Lab)]

My Lords, it is clear that a Greek exit would provide an existential threat to the whole European monetary and economic framework, with knock-on effects geopolitically and also for the United Kingdom. As Angela Merkel said, if we lose the ability to compromise, we will lose Europe. Even at this late stage, is it not incumbent on the UK Government to ensure that their voice is heard and that a compromise is agreed with a degree of debt write-down and concomitant structural changes in Greece itself? That is still a possibility and every effort has to be made to ensure that before the weekend.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I agree that we should do what we can, but it is fundamentally a eurozone problem. There is a limited amount we can do. In terms of the bailout, we would not be on the hook for that. I agree that we should do what we can. Of course, the former Leader of this House is hard at work in Europe, even as we speak.

Low Pay: Resolution Foundation Report

Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I think that it is covered, but the position on workers such as those mentioned by my noble friend is that if one is working as part of one’s job, one should be paid the minimum wage. People who are travelling should be paid the minimum wage. If they are not, that is a question of fact, which should be taken up at employment appeal tribunals. That would determine whether they are paid the minimum wage.

[Lord McFall of Alcluith (Lab)]

My Lords, we are in an economic era of falling unemployment but falling wages, with the number of people earning less than £7.69 an hour at a record 5.2 million in the United Kingdom. Do the Government recognise that economic growth alone will not solve this problem and that we need new policy initiatives in the labour market so that we do not end up with a working society of haves and nearly-haves?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I completely agree with the noble Lord. It is not just the economy itself but the other things that need to be done to address this issue. We need to create jobs, reduce the tax burden on the lower paid—in that respect, 3.2 million in this Parliament have been taken out of income tax—and invest in skills.