Northern Ireland

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown Excerpts

Tuesday 27th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, those who have shown a keen interest in Northern Ireland affairs understand that the protocol that was foisted upon the people of Northern Ireland caused real damage to stability in our Province, even though it was heralded by many in this House as positive and something that should be embraced by all. It was claimed that the protocol was seeking to safeguard and preserve the core principles of the Belfast agreement, but in fact it had the opposite effect.

The lesson from these past years is the necessity to have a consensus in a divided community—not the usual pandering over the years to republican demands but a genuine consensus from both unionists and nationalists at every juncture. It has been the convention of Stormont since 1972, some 26 years before the Belfast agreement, that controversial decisions cannot be made on a majoritarian basis. Indeed, the use of majoritarian votes, which are to be returned in November, was peddled as the republican excuse for the Troubles and was abandoned.

How have we got to where we are today? With the protocol having caused such damage to Northern Ireland’s constitutional position within the United Kingdom, and indeed to our economy, it was modified by the Windsor Framework—another short-term fix seeking to cobble together something that would, it was hoped, pull the wool over the eyes of unionists and allow normal programming to proceed.

The Democratic Unionist Party laid before the people of Northern Ireland seven solemn tests. The noble Lord, Lord Bew, may not know this, but we do know what those seven tests really mean. It was by those tests which any deal would be measured, and I have not deviated from the true spirit of those tests. The Government have now got the Northern Ireland Assembly up and running, and, personally, I believe that is all they really cared about. But those who are unionists by conviction must constantly hold this Government’s feet to the fire.

We would be foolish to accept mere promises or empty rhetoric from this Government, recognising that successive Governments have broken promises to the people of Northern Ireland in the past. In recent debates, Members of this House warned us that, if we did not accept what was offered in the Windsor Framework, we would be heading to joint authority between London and Dublin. That was the big stick that was wielded over our heads. Yet in the other place yesterday—this is amazing—the Alliance Member of Parliament, Stephen Farry, said

“I too am happy to put on record that I do not believe that joint authority is part of the Good Friday agreement”.


It is amazing that he did not share this statement with his colleagues in this House. Of course, we need to note that he acknowledges this now, when the Assembly has been restored. It was good enough for his friend the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, to threaten us with this during the debates in this House, as if it was included in the Belfast agreement. Indeed, they are all coming out of the woodwork now, for the shadow Secretary of State Hilary Benn MP, in yesterday’s debate in the other place, also said

“it is simply a fact that the Good Friday agreement and the Northern Ireland Act 1998 do not provide for joint authority with the Irish Government over what happens inside Northern Ireland. That is also acknowledged by the Irish Government”. —[Official Report, Commons, 26/2/24; cols. 63 and 74]

However, we all know that the Irish Government have sought to interfere in the internal affairs of Northern Ireland, even telling us that the basis on which the Assembly operates should be changed. We all know that there are those who want the principle of consent to be done away with, and any unionist who enters into such negotiations to that end would be surrendering to a full-blooded republican agenda in Northern Ireland.

The humble Address that has been moved by the Minister is supposed to give the unionist people of Northern Ireland reassurance and comfort. But when one delves into its substance, one has to ask: does it? It reaffirms the importance of upholding the Belfast agreement of 1998 in all its strands, and I welcome the desire expressed. However, on examination, do the current arrangements have that effect? Do they not rather place them in jeopardy, such that they should be changed as a matter of the greatest urgency?

The heart of that agreement was cross-community consent, but that has not been upheld. The consent principle was heralded as a bedrock of the agreement of 1998 and was respected from 1998 until 2020. The Belfast agreement is a treaty in international law that states that any change in the status of Northern Ireland must only be with the consent of the majority of its people. But at the behest of the European Union, there has been a change to the voting arrangements in the Assembly. Since 1992, votes and issues that have been contentious could not be decided on a majority basis, but the Minister knows full well that arrangements that undermine the principle of consent have already been put in place. The Windsor Framework directly violates the consent principle—even though this humble Address states the opposite. It involves far-reaching constitutional change transferring 300 areas of law to a legislature including the Irish Republic but excluding the United Kingdom without the prior consent of the people of Northern Ireland; nor do the elected representatives of the people of Northern Ireland have any power to change them. There has been much talk of the Stormont brake as the way to stop the EU juggernaut in its tracks, but where the Stormont brake applies we have to accept that the Assembly has the demeaning right only to try to stop laws that have already been made for us by a foreign Parliament—so much for consent and democracy.

Through the determined efforts of my colleagues, some important changes have been made, but a few words in an humble Address to His Majesty will not undo the serious damage that has been done to our constitutional position within the union. This Government’s surrendering to the demands from the European Union has undermined our relationship with the rest of the United Kingdom. In many areas of our lives, we are termed legally as “a third country”—not as an integral part of the United Kingdom. Our current arrangements may technically be acceptable from the vantage point of the way our dualist system approaches international law, but they are not remotely acceptable in terms of an humble Address which implies that we are fully compliant with the requirements of the Belfast agreement, when nothing can be further from the truth—at least be honourable enough to tell the people the truth.

Let us not forget that this Address is not an address to anyone but an humble Address to His Majesty the King, and, as such, Parliament has a particularly developed obligation to speak the truth. Therefore, it must be pointed out that rather than respecting the Belfast agreement, which we are constantly reminded is the binding international law, we have since 1 January 2021 flouted it, and we continue to do so. Rather than standing up to the EU, our Government have simply abandoned the principle of consent and in November of this year, Northern Ireland will be travelling back in time for its first majoritarian vote on a matter of great controversy for over 50 years. That vote cannot be regarded as a vote in one job lot on all the laws imposed in the last four years. Quite apart from the fact that you cannot deal with four years of legislation in a single vote, a no vote would not result in the repeal of those laws; it is actually a Stormont vote to cede power for a period of years to a group of states including the Republic of Ireland and excluding the United Kingdom and would be the most controversial vote in the history of Stormont. Of course, we know that, as usual, Sinn Féin, the SDLP, the Alliance Party et cetera will all be delighted to slavishly obey their masters in Europe.

There is no doubt in my mind that, no matter how flowery or honeyed the words uttered in this humble Address or in the assurances given, we in Northern Ireland have in a number of areas been detached from the mainstream British economy, and that can be rectified only when 300 areas of law are removed and brought under the control of our local elected assembly, when the principle of consent is restored as proposed under the Belfast agreement, and when the Irish Sea border is dismantled and Dublin’s interference in our internal affairs ceases. We as unionists have a positive case to present, but we must honestly admit there is much more work to be done to arrest the undermining of the union and stop the eroding of important aspects of our constitutional position within our precious United Kingdom. If the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, were to press her amendment to a vote, I would certainly join her in the Lobby.

Windsor Framework (Constitutional Status of Northern Ireland) Regulations 2024

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown Excerpts

Tuesday 13th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, I am delighted to follow the noble Lord, Lord Hay. At the commencement, before I deal with the two statutory instruments, there are some things that have to be said in reply to some of the charges that have been made against us.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, seems to be concerned about the tone of the Command Paper. I remind her that it has no legislative force. We are dealing with the two statutory instruments, which are vital. The Command Paper is important to set, as it were, the backdrop to what is being sought to be done.

I understand the point that the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, is making: he hopes that the new arrangements will allow that never again will anyone be killed or children left without their parents. But I have to say, and he will agree with me, that there never was a reason why anyone was to be killed, or was killed, or any child was left without a father or a mother, or parents left without their children.

The noble Lord, Lord Bew, challenged my noble friend a few moments ago concerning the seven tests. Like many others whom I have listened to, he has tried to interpret the DUP’s seven tests. We set the tests. We know exactly what those tests meant. We know their interpretation. The first test is the fulfilment of Article 6 of the Act of Union. The Supreme Court has ruled that this is suspended because EU law takes precedence through Section 7A of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. It is therefore wrong to say that our test did not require EU law to be lifted from Northern Ireland. Noble Lords need only listen to the statements and speeches, and to read the articles written by leading spokesmen of the Democratic Unionist Party over the last two years to know that the issue of EU jurisdiction was vital to our manifesto commitment. I say to noble Lords: no, we will not allow others to rewrite the meaning of our tests.

[Lord Bew (CB)]

Was EU law mentioned in the DUP manifesto? It is definitely not mentioned in the seven tests—there is no doubt about that—and it is a rather contorted argument about the Act of Union implying this.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown]

In speech after speech, article after article, statement after statement, from our party leader and from our chief spokesmen on these issues, it was constantly said. To suggest that it was not a vital part is not factual. I will not allow to stay on the record a charge made against us that is not factual.

It is also true that the majority of Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU; that is a fact. But so did the majority in Scotland, so did the majority in London, and so did the majority in other regions and parts of the United Kingdom. It is interesting that no one suggests that those counties or regions should be subjected to foreign laws and the special arrangements ordered by the EU that we are expected to accept.

[Lord Alderdice (LD)]

I wonder if I might just respond to that point. It seems to me that Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England are important separate jurisdictions with their own statute books and so on. That is not the case for some of the other areas that the noble Lord refers to. The point I was making was that when people talk about the people of Northern Ireland wanting this, that and the other thing, one of the things that they did not want—it is right that the Scots did not want it either—was to leave the European Union, with all the consequences. That was the point.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

I accept what the noble Lord is saying. Are he and others suggesting that Scotland should get the same as we got and that it should receive the same benefit that we are told we have got? I know in fact that Scotland has been suggesting it should be getting it, because it thinks we are getting something that it did not get. You cannot have it both ways. The parties across this House that have been in government, those leading parties in this House, realise that the United Kingdom went into the referendum as a United Kingdom. We went into Europe as a United Kingdom. We were withdrawing as a United Kingdom—not parts here and parts there. It is not a patchwork quilt that we are talking about. We are talking about the rights of the peoples of the United Kingdom to make the decision. Just because some people do not like the decision that was made, they cannot suggest that it was not done in a democratic way.

The Northern Ireland protocol cut our Province off from the rest of the United Kingdom economically and handed political power over a part of the United Kingdom to the EU. Because of this, the DUP and my party colleagues refused to implement a policy that deliberately undermined our precious union and our right to trade on the same footing as Great Britain. I stand by that decision without apology. The Northern Ireland Assembly was suspended and did not function for two years. It was only through the actions of the DUP that the Government and the EU sat up and listened to the legitimate concerns of unionism. Up to that moment, they seemed to have only one concern—to listen to the endless demands of republicans.

Now, after two years, the Government have produced the Command Paper Safeguarding the Union and the two statutory instruments we are debating today, but there are questions that must honestly be asked and answered. Do these fully address the issues confronting unionists? Do they, for example, stop the damage done by the Northern Ireland protocol and the Windsor Framework with reference to the free movement of trade between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, and do we now have the right to trade on the same footing as GB? Do they restore the constitutional rights to the people of Northern Ireland that have been totally undermined by the protocol and Windsor Framework, and have they restored our equal citizenship as British citizens, which has been eroded?

We were told that these measures were vital for the restoration of the Northern Ireland Assembly, but how does this equate with the Assembly being already restored before we in your Lordships’ House were granted a chance to scrutinise or debate one line of their content or their ever becoming law—because they are not law. We have to debate and pass it here. Therefore, how did this happen? One has to ask what was the undue haste—or was scrutiny of the details contained in these SIs the last thing the Government wanted before the Assembly was restored?

I place on record my appreciation for all the hard work that was done by my colleagues over many months and the due diligence that they applied to their labours, but I have no doubt that intolerable pressure was exerted on them by the Prime Minister, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, the NIO and, no doubt, the Irish Government—although the internal affairs of Northern Ireland are not the business of the Irish Government—to get the Executive up and running. Indeed, we had an example of the Government’s panic when the Secretary of State used the £3.3 billion as bait and deliberately withheld the rightful pay rise from our hard-working public sector workers, seeking to create a crisis. In my opinion, again, such an action was despicable.

Now, there is breaking news today. We learn that the Stormont Executive have been told by Westminster that they must raise at least £113 million of their own revenue in their next budget, and that this was a part of the £3.3 billion funding package. Is it not strange that we were not informed of those details until now? There is an old adage: “All that glitters is not gold”.

Over the weekend, an article was published in Northern Ireland media by the Belfast News Letter—written by three of my esteemed colleagues, two of whom are in this House—pointing out that scrutiny of the SIs before us today confirms that the border in the Irish Sea remains. I can tell the House that the genuine concerns expressed by my colleagues have already been expressed not only by myself but by the greater number of the parliamentary party, a majority of the Members of the House of Lords from my party, and indeed a number of MLAs. These concerns cannot be cast aside or overlooked but must be honourably answered, for they will not go away. Relying on promises made by a Government who have broken so many promises before will not suffice. We all know that the outworkings of these SIs will be evident for all to see, and no amount of flannel or spin from the Secretary of State or any other Minister will wish away the facts that the people see before their eyes.

I ask the Minister to tell the House if the green lanes legislation has gone or if it is completely untouched by these SIs. Is it true that, under the current legislation, companies moving goods outside the red lane must have an export number and must be subject to customs and SPS border paperwork, as well as subject to 100% documentary checks and 10% identity checks, moving to 5%? That is what Regulation 13(2) of the Windsor Framework (Retail Movement Scheme) Regulations 2023 requires. Lest anyone should doubt me, Regulation 13(2) states:

“From the date specified in the first column of the table below, the Northern Ireland competent authority must carry out an identity check by breaking the seal on at least the percentage of consignments of specified retail goods moving into Northern Ireland under the Scheme specified in relation to that date in the second column of that table”.


The minimum percentage of consignments on which identity checks must be carried out are, from 1 October 2023, 10%; from 1 October 2024, 8%; and, from 1 July 2025, 5%. Meanwhile, Regulation 12 requires 100% documentary checks. That is what the law requires—a law that I believe the SIs before us today, whose purpose is to give effect to the deal, do not amend, let alone appeal. I want the Minister to tell us whether or not that is true.

Companies moving goods from Wales do not have an export number. They do not have to fill in customs paperwork, simplified or otherwise. They are not subject to 100% documentary checks, and they do not have to go through border control posts where they are subject to identity checks of between 10% to 5%. Crucially, before 1 January 2021, companies moving goods to Northern Ireland from England, Wales or Scotland similarly did not need an export number. They did not need to fill in customs paperwork or be subject to 100% documentary checks and 10% to 5% identity checks at border control posts. The reason was very simple. At that time, Northern Ireland was not cut off from the rest of the United Kingdom by the Irish Sea border—a border that I fear the deal before us leaves in place. I ask the Minister: is this scenario as I have outlined it right or wrong? We do not need waffle, we need answers.

I notice people pointing to their watches, but this is the first time I have had the opportunity of looking at this in the House of Lords, and I am taking my time to deal with a matter that is so important to the people who live in Northern Ireland.

The protocol/Windsor Framework was designed to make special provision for Northern Ireland that was not made for the rest of the United Kingdom. While I welcome the east-west council, the greater flexibility in dealing with rest-of-world goods, and the commitment from the UK Government to stand with us if the EU refuses to move veterinary medicines, none of those things removes the border or restores Article 6 of the Act of Union, which remains as partially suspended today as it was this time last year.

Without apology, I am a unionist. That means that I prioritise the relationship between the different nations that occupy these islands. It means that, if borders have to divide us, I am on the side of the border that is in a relationship with England, Scotland and Wales, for it was not unionism that divided the island of Ireland but nationalism.

There has never been any question that some businesses have prioritised having no border to interrupt the flow of goods between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. But the idea that business as a whole prioritises the free movement of goods between Northern Ireland over the free flow of goods between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom is difficult to sustain in the context where most of the goods flowing into and out of Northern Ireland come from the United Kingdom.

In a world where one cannot have unfettered border-free access to both the rest of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland—indeed, if we could, this deal and the SI before us would have delivered it—then unionism exists to promote unfettered access with the rest of the United Kingdom. This deal prioritises something entirely different: unfettered border-free access to the Republic of Ireland, and fettered, bordered access to the rest of the United Kingdom. As I have said, I believe that there is still a border in the Irish Sea.

We must not forget that the existence of a border is a function of the more profound dividing of Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom, and its insertion in a different governance structure and subjection to the same laws as the Irish Republic in some 300 areas, rather than those of the United Kingdom—laws that are imposed on it from outside. I know that Parliament is sovereign, but simply telling us that does not make matters better, only worse. It tells us that even though Parliament has the power to insist that 1.9 million UK citizens are left to abide under 300 areas of law over which they have no influence or power to amend, His Majesty’s Government are happy to leave them as second-class citizens without the right to stand for election to try to stop some of the laws imposed on them by a foreign power.

The EU might prefer this way to protect the integrity of its single market, but in a context where another way of dealing with the issue exists—the mutual enforcement that my noble friend Lord Morrow mentioned—that does not involve the largest disenfranchisement exercise in the history of the western world or violate the consent principle of the Belfast agreement, and that does not involve disrespecting the territorial integrity of the United Kingdom, no responsible UK Government could ever countenance settling for anything less.

Northern Ireland Executive Formation

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown Excerpts

Thursday 1st February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My noble friend will be aware that the statutory instrument, which we will have the opportunity to debate at length, reaffirms the supremacy of UK law, including the Acts of Union, in respect of Northern Ireland. On the trade issue, the aim of the second statutory instrument is to future-proof Northern Ireland’s position within the UK internal market. Of course, no Parliament can bind its successors, but the statutory instrument would ensure that any changes would require changes in law.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, it is a fact that in any agreement the devil will be in the detail; therefore, can we have clarification? Does Northern Ireland remain under EU single market laws for production of food and agri-food? Do His Majesty’s Government believe that the Irish Sea border has fundamentally been changed? Is there a fundamental change to the Windsor Framework or is it still operational, and will Northern Ireland be able to enjoy UK state aid like every other part of the United Kingdom, without reference to the EU?

[Lord Caine (Con)]

The Government are absolutely confident that this deal will guarantee the smooth flow of goods throughout the United Kingdom. That is not just the opinion of the Government but of the noble Lord’s party leader, on which basis he has advised his party to go back into the Northern Ireland Executive. We will have a chance to debate these points more fully, in the interests of other speakers. I am sure we will come back to them during the debate.

Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 24th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introductory remarks. I have no doubt whatever in his strong unionist credentials. I must say that I do not have the same confidence, perhaps, in some of the other colleagues, but nevertheless, I have no doubt in his unionist credentials.

In preparation for this important debate, I attended the debate in the other House to listen to it. I found it very informative. I did indeed hear the words of my leader, the right honourable Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, in mentioning the threats that have been made against him. That is despicable, wherever that has come from or from whomever it has come. I and some other noble Lords in this House know exactly what it is to live under threats and to have those threats carried out. I had to be driven in an armoured police car for 25 years to carry out my duties as a Member of Parliament in the other place. Indeed, as noble Lords know, I received an actual bomb at my home on my 40th birthday and the house was shot up with over 50 bullets, just as the last action of the IRA, so that I would not be here. However, I thank God there is a greater power than the Provos, and that is why I am here. I thank God for his sovereignty and his providential care.

If anyone thinks that the threats across our community have finished, we know that dissidents are still threatening people. It is not only dissidents: outside Dungiven, we saw how those people went into the GAA place with their guns and threatened the people there. They had their weaponry with them, and they said they were the IRA. Therefore, those threats still go on.

I make this clear: irrespective of where the threats come, over the years those with principles have been willing to stand by them. We will not be threatened; we will not be bullied. Whether it be by the terrorists, government or anyone else, we will not be bullied into submission or move away from the principles that we believe in with all our hearts—I must lay that down right at the beginning.

Like my noble friend Lord Morrow, I attended an event on 17 January to commemorate the 32nd year since eight young men, who were travelling home from work, were brutally murdered on the Omagh-Cookstown road. For the past 32 years, I have stood with the families along that roadside. Come hail, snow or rain, we have stood there every year at the commemoration stone, even though others have sought to destroy it with bullets, hammers, sledgehammers and other things. The stone commemorates the lives of Gary Bleeks, Cecil Caldwell, Robert Dunseath, Oswald Gilchrist, David Harkness, Bobby Irons, Richard McConnell and Nigel McKee. We still remember them, and we will continue to remember their sacrifice and the pain that is still real in their loved ones’ hearts.

As I listened to the debate in the other place, I heard impassioned speeches from some, as well as some of the usual threats from others—not from the gun, but the usual political threats—should unionists not conform. In his introductory letter, the Secretary of State said that Northern Ireland has been without a fully functioning devolved Government since February 2022 and that the Government’s utmost priority remains restoring strong, stable and locally elected devolved institutions as soon as possible. Of course, the Government and Members of this House are fully aware of why my party pulled out of the Executive at Stormont. The Democratic Unionist Party did not create the impasse. Northern Ireland was plunged into constitutional uncertainty because of the actions of this Government in entering into an agreement with the European Union, over the heads of the people, that places Northern Ireland under laws from Europe that no representative of the people had any input in, influence over or ability to change. So much for democracy—and yet we are often reminded of what democracy would demand of us in going back into the Assembly.

What is being forced on the people of Northern Ireland under the protocol and the Windsor Framework is not democracy at work. How can we have 300 areas of law forced on the people of Northern Ireland when they have no power to change them? They have no representation in the place where those decisions are being made. In fact, they are being told to suck it up and take it—that is the way.

I am sad to say that the vast majority of Members in this House, when both the protocol Bill came through and the Windsor Framework was being debated, were willing to say, “Let’s have it”. In fact, when we debated the protocol, this House said that it could not be changed in any shape or form. Members sitting in this House said that the Democratic Unionist Party can blow in the wind and that this does not matter because the protocol will not, and cannot, be changed. We know that was not true; nevertheless, that was what was said. They were then forced into the position of saying that another agreement, the Windsor Framework, was the best thing: “Let’s forget about the protocol, let’s go with the Windsor Framework”. It involves a foreign jurisdiction making laws that we in Northern Ireland must adhere to, even though they are divergent from those that apply to the rest of the United Kingdom. We are supposed to be an equal part of the United Kingdom.

The Government said out of the other side of their mouth that they now wish to strengthen the union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and that they may bring forth legislation to do so. Did they really think we that we would believe them? Actions speak louder than words. We were told in this letter from the Secretary of State that a restored Executive would have access to a significant financial package, an extra £3.3 billion, to secure and transform Northern Ireland’s public services. That is a large amount, but when we realise that there is a major black hole in the finances at Stormont because Northern Ireland has been underfunded compared with the other devolved Administrations, and on top of that moneys have been allocated for the remuneration of public sector workers, we find that that substantial package is greatly depleted. Let nobody be under any misunderstanding: if they think that that amount of money will transform Northern Ireland’s public services, they are mistaken. There are major problems in the health service in Northern Ireland. There are major problems with education. Finances are needed across a vast area of Northern Ireland life, and yet we are told that this will solve the problem.

One of the most disgraceful and callous actions of the Secretary of State was using public sector workers who have not had a pay rise for three years and, as the shadow Secretary of State in the other House said in the debate, holding them hostages in this political game. We say that, yes, they were hostages: they were being held hostage and were pawns in his political game of trying to put the blame on the Democratic Unionist Party. Like every other Member in the other House, he has been told today, as he had already been told, to stop playing politics with teachers who provide an excellent education for our children under very difficult circumstances, stop using nurses and doctors who walk the wards of our hospitals day and night to aid our sick, stop abusing police officers who stand between us and those who terrorise the community. Secretary of State, release the money now that they are overdue. It was a deliberate decision by the Secretary of State to refuse to act. I trust that the noble Lord the Minister will take the message from across this House that that money should and must be released. Last week, my party colleagues personally put into the hand of the Chancellor of the Exchequer a demand that he release the money. I have been told that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is willing to release that money. Therefore, there is no excuse under the sun why the Secretary of State could not immediately order the payment that is due to those who keep our public services going in different spheres across the Province.

I noticed that the former Secretary of State, Julian Smith, said in the other House that what is being offered is a very good deal, that it is not perfect, but it is much better now. That is interesting, because he must have seen it. If he has seen it—and I am glad he has seen it —perhaps he could let some of the rest of us see it as well. He may have seen it, but if anyone thinks that anyone in Northern Ireland is going to take this Government at their word on trust, they are sadly mistaken. We have learned from the reality of the situation of life in Northern Ireland that we have to look at the detail and scrutinise the small print and then decisions can be made.

I notice that the Alliance Member for North Down once again threatens unionists that, if they do not give in, submit, surrender, they will be faced with Dublin’s involvement. It is sad that that Member comes from a very unionist constituency—there is a vast unionist constituency in North Down—yet, since he has come into the other place, he acts as a surrogate for Sinn Féin-speak. It is a total and absolute disgrace that he threatens unionists that if we do not bow to the diktat, we will have Dublin rule. I appeal to all unionists to stand united and strong as we face the onslaught of propaganda—and we will—and be sure not to give the enemies of unionism a bonus by turning in on ourselves. The old statement has always been: “United we stand, divided we fall”. Much has been heard about the Belfast agreement and its 25th anniversary, but we were told that the foundational principle of that agreement was cross-community consent: a majority of nationalists and a majority of unionists. It will be most interesting to see whether, whatever deal the Government finally offer unionism, a unionist Minister in the Assembly will be made to implement and enforce the Irish Sea border, as under the Windsor Framework, or has that been dealt with? Governments in the past have sold Northern Ireland short before; we are aware of that. Therefore, actions will speak louder than any pious words.

Northern Ireland: Industrial Action

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown Excerpts

Wednesday 17th January 2024 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of planned industrial action in Northern Ireland, and what plans they have made to release funding for public sector pay awards.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Northern Ireland Office (Lord Caine) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government will continue to work closely with the Northern Ireland Civil Service, which is leading the response to the widespread action. Tomorrow’s strike will be disruptive for people across Northern Ireland, and we know this is an extremely frustrating time for workers. While public sector pay is devolved, His Majesty’s Government have offered a generous package worth more than £3 billion that addresses public sector pay and would be available from day one to a restored Executive.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his reply. Thousands of workers across Northern Ireland are striking tomorrow because, despite unprecedented levels of inflation and pay agreements to reduce the impact of inflation on their living standards, they are still waiting for pay increases to be awarded. The Government have accepted that the Northern Ireland budget should be increased to finance these awards, but the Secretary of State claims that they cannot be paid because the Northern Ireland Assembly is not sitting. This is not true. Between December 2022 and December 2023, 30 different decisions in relation to pay were taken by civil servants in Northern Ireland.

The issue is whether the Secretary of State will release the money to enable the payments to be made. He seems to prefer to use workers as pawns to put pressure on my party to accept the Windsor Framework and the Northern Ireland protocol. Our call to release the money is supported by the unions, the head of the Civil Service and all political parties in Northern Ireland. Therefore, will the Minister inform the Secretary of State that he must stop using workers and their well- earned pay increases as pawns in his game of political brinkmanship and realise that bribery and bullying will not force unionists into accepting constitutional arrangements that will destroy the union in the long run by aligning Northern Ireland with the European Union instead of the United Kingdom?

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his many questions. In respect of the cost of living, I remind him that this Government have delivered on their pledge to halve inflation, and from the beginning of this year have cut taxes to ease pressures on household incomes.

The noble Lord will be aware that the Government do not have the powers directly to negotiate public sector pay in Northern Ireland. This is a devolved matter for a Northern Ireland Executive. The package to which I referred a few moments ago remains on the table for an incoming Executive. Of the £3.3 billion, somewhere in the region of £580 million is earmarked for relieving pressures on the public sector. So far as the Windsor Framework is concerned, he will not be surprised to hear that I do not share his characterisation. I believe the Windsor Framework is the right basis for reforming the Executive and having the devolved institutions back up and running in Northern Ireland, delivering for the entire community.

Relationships and Sexuality Education (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown Excerpts

Wednesday 28th June 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. We are joined today by the chair of our committee, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral. I speak in a personal capacity.

I concur with our committee’s report on this legislation. I know that the rule of the committee is to consider only instruments laid before the House of Lords and to draw the House’s attention to those that meet our reporting grounds. It is then for the House to determine what further action is required.

However, with reference to this SI and its controversial nature, and the need for proper, adequate consultation—as already indicated by the noble Lord, Lord Morrow—with schools, boards of governors and churches, which in many instances own the schools, I urge the Minister to bring forward the necessary legislation to push back the implementation date to allow that consultation to take place. I ask the Minister to consider that. It would allow time for a public consultation and ensure that the policy can be fully developed.

In fact, at the weekend, I spoke to one of the principals of a Catholic grammar school in Downpatrick. He was concerned about the outworkings of the action. He is fully cognisant that we now live in a more liberal world and he feels that the content probably can be delivered sensitively, but it would be preferable if there was consultation that allowed for informed choices to be made.

I contend that the manner and content of this legislation suggests a level of arrogance on the part of the NIO and a total disregard for schools, parents and their management structures, many of which are in the faith-based sector. I feel that they have been treated with total ignominy.

The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee received representations from a broad range of bodies, including all the churches in Northern Ireland, the Catholic Schools’ Trustee Service—I declare an interest as I was taught in the Catholic sector—the Controlled Schools’ Support Council, Right to Life UK, the Christian Institute, the Presbyterian Church and the Transferor Representatives’ Council. They all raised several concerns, which have been reflected in the SLSC submission to your Lordships’ House. The lack of public consultation prior to the regulations coming into effect has caused immense concern. The NIO told the committee in its responses that there was “no legal requirement” to conduct a consultation—why is that the case?—but that it had

“engaged with a range of stakeholders and statutory organisations”.

Can the Minister say which stakeholders and statutory organisations? What responses did the NIO receive? Were these responses published? What did the responses state? Was there any engagement with those groups directly involved with young people—teachers, parents, boards of governors, the controlling bodies and the churches?

The SLSC, as the noble Lord, Lord Morrow, referred to, concludes that, given the controversial nature of this policy and strong views expressed in submissions to the committee, a full public consultation “would have been appropriate”. The report also points out that other comparable policy changes, including when similar regulations were introduced for England, were subject to a public consultation before implementation. Why was there no public consultation for Northern Ireland? Why was there no recognition of the need to work with all involved in delivering education, particularly those in faith-based environments—and particularly in Northern Ireland, where the subject of abortion is highly controversial. Why was there no recognition of the need to acknowledge and respect the ethos and faith-based nature of many of our schools?

There is no doubt that full public consultation can result in improved policy-making. Sadly, we are at variance in Northern Ireland with what happened in England. If I may, I just quote what the Catholic Schools’ Trustee Service said in its submission; Bishop Donal McKeown, the chair of that service, said:

“We have a particular concern regarding the Explanatory note to the Regulations which proposes a programme of RSE that does not advocate or promote any particular opinion. This requirement runs entirely contrary to the very existence of a faith-based sector which is committed to an ethos, one which parents & carers have specifically chosen for their children”.


The submission further states:

“We would highlight the contrast between this legislative requirement and that which applies to schools in England. The House of Commons Library Report”—


Relationships and Sex Education in Schools (England) from 23 March 2023—

“notes, ‘Schools will have flexibility over how they deliver these subjects, so they can develop an integrated approach that is sensitive to the needs of the local community; and, as now, faith schools will continue to be able to teach in accordance with the tenets of their faith’. Why are these rights, passed overwhelmingly in 2019, in the House of Commons by approval of 538 MPs being denied to schools in Northern Ireland?”

Noble Lords from Northern Ireland need answers to that question. That submission also says:

“The guidance for England also makes explicitly clear that provision for RSE is set, ‘within the context of a school’s broader ethos and approach to developing pupils socially, morally, spiritually and culturally’ The requirements set out in the legislation for Northern Ireland pose a very different and, indeed, contradictory approach to that approved for schools in England”.


While the regulations were laid by the NIO, much of the detailed implementation of the policy will fall to the Department of Education in Northern Ireland. Some aspects of the policy underpinning the regulations, including procedures to allow parents to withdraw their children from sexuality education, may apparently not be developed by the policy implementation date of 1 January 2024—but maybe the Minister has a different view on that. This will be of concern to parents, and it would be useful to fully tease out and get answers on it.

I believe that parents have the right to choose what sort of sexual education their children should receive. The failure to respect the autonomy of parents in this sensitive area is alarming and contrary to any elementary concept of democratic choice. We suggest that the Government should reflect on the European convention, which states that, in the exercise of education,

“the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions”.

To coincide with the trend of inadequate explanatory memoranda that we receive from other departments—the chair of our committee will be fully aware of that—the NIO has stated in its Explanatory Notes that these regulations would have

“no, or no significant, impact on the private, voluntary or public sectors”.

I would like to know this from the Minister: how was that conclusion arrived at, and on what basis was this assessment made?

The Assembly and Executive are the rightful places to deal with such issues, and I hope that there is a restoration. A pause would therefore be suitable to allow a consultation, which would then allow a reformed Assembly and Executive to formulate a policy with legislation on sexuality education matters which is specific to Northern Ireland and takes on board the ethos and faith-based nature of many schools.

This legislation places significant new responsibilities on boards of governors and principals. I feel that it directly undermines the rights of parents and challenges the rights of trustees to promote that faith-based education. What training will be provided to schools, boards of governors and teachers? What funding will be provided during this time of difficult financial challenges for schools, which we hear about daily?

More thought and reflection are required. I ask the Minister to give that and allow a consultation to take place, as well as meetings with all those involved, to ensure that a policy is put in place that fully reflects the needs of all.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, I am sure that the Minister knows that some things will have to be repeated as he listens to this debate. Perhaps after the Members from Northern Ireland have spoken a number of times, it will indeed affect his and the department’s thinking.

In my humble opinion, which I have a right to, I confess that the statutory instrument before us today is a disgrace to any Government. Forcing all primary schools in Northern Ireland, including faith schools, to teach girls that they have a right to an abortion and telling them how to get one without their parents finding out, even if they are under age, is unbelievable in what is supposed to be a democratic society.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

I thank the noble Lord for giving way and I agree with what he is saying and with what the noble Baroness said earlier. He says that there is no elected Member from Northern Ireland in the government party. Is it not even worse, in that we could end up in a year’s time with a Labour Government who do not even allow their party members in Northern Ireland to stand for election, yet profess strongly to be interested in Northern Ireland?

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

The noble Baroness makes her point very clearly. It is beyond challenge. The Labour Party does not permit its members to stand in Northern Ireland, so it could not have an elected representative in the other Chamber, yet it wants to impose its will on the people of Northern Ireland.

The insertion of Section 9 was deeply controversial. I believe that a majority of the people of Northern Ireland find it an offensive amendment, for which there was no prior consultation or proper scrutiny. It was added to a Bill that was supposed to be subject- narrow to the formation of an Executive, yet that legislation was brought through. In fact, not only did the Government bring it through but they did so having presented it on that narrow basis, and it was then deemed appropriate to be granted accelerated passage.

As my noble friend Lord Morrow said, the situation with these regulations is even more anti-democratic and intolerable. As other noble Lords have pointed out, the Secretary of State decided that these regulations, on education provision regarding abortion and reducing teen pregnancy, were not even worthy of consultation. What kind of democratic society are we living in where even the people are not worthy of consultation? These regulations are being imposed over the heads of parents without being preceded by any primary legislative debate at all, in terms of the regulation-making powers as they applied to education. Indeed, the Secretary of State has not bothered to consult or even give himself the semblance of democratic cover before forcing this legislation through. That is arrogance.

As I said, the democratic deficit in relation to these regulations is even worse than that relating to abortion. That is in spite of the fact that, when the abortion regulations were taken to court, the point was made that the Secretary of State had consulted on them and the court stated that,

“in the event that Regulations or Directions are made in the future to deal with those issues”

of education and sexual and reproductive health and so on,

“there will be an opportunity for the Secretary of State to carry out a consultation”.

Whenever the NIO was asked about consultation and whether it was necessary, the response was, “No, it’s not. Why would you talk to those people?” It said that it was not necessary because each school must have a written policy on how it will deliver regulations and sexuality education, and that this policy should be subject to consultation with parents. The House of Lords Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee pointed out that,

“school policies will only be able to operate within the already-established government guidance, meaning that such consultation is too late to affect the framework of RSE delivery”.

However, the committee also noted that,

“when comparable regulations were introduced in England”,

a full consultation was carried out. I wonder whether that was because the elected Members in the other place would have to answer to their electorate. Maybe that was the reason: the electorate had the power to change them or remove them—but not in Northern Ireland. Our Secretary of State feels that parents in Northern Ireland are too far down the pecking order to be worthy of being heard or consulted. That is contrary to the European Convention on Human Rights, which states:

“In the exercise of any functions which it assumes in relation to education and to teaching, the State shall”—


not might—

“respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions”.

Notice the word “shall”. But it has not been done.

We are witnessing a deliberate abuse of parliamentary procedure in the development of these regulations. As the Minister listens to the debate today, in the light of what he is hearing, I ask him what he will do to stop any Secretary of State abusing the powers that they feel they have over the people of Northern Ireland.

The Northern Ireland Secretary of State and CEDAW have demonstrated a total lack of respect for faith, which is very important to many in Northern Ireland. Paragraph 43 of the CEDAW report states:

“The designated members observed that young people in Northern Ireland were denied the education necessary to enjoy their sexual and reproductive health and rights. Most children in Northern Ireland attend denominational schools, either Catholic or Protestant”,


but that is not true. It is not true. Of course, does truth really matter? It seemingly does not, because that statement is totally false.

It goes on:

“Church representatives play active roles in school management boards, and the result is that relationship and sexuality education, although a recommended part of the primary and post-primary statutory curriculum of the Department of Education, is underdeveloped or non-existent since it is at the school’s discretion to implement the contents of the curriculum according to its values and ethos”.


On the one hand, it is saying that schools are either Catholic or Protestant. It goes on to tell us that the contents of the curriculum are at the school’s discretion and accord with its values and ethos. It goes on:

“Where relationship and sexuality education is delivered, it is frequently provided by third parties and based on anti-abortion and abstinence ethos”.


This attack on Northern Ireland’s Churches, at the heart of the educational problem, lacks any sense of human rights balance or cognisance that religious freedom is also a human right, let alone any appreciation of the important and constructive role that Churches have played in education, including RSE.

Just because CEDAW is supposed to be a human rights body, it does not excuse its lack of concern for religious liberty. Religious liberty and freedom were hard fought for and obtained—and cost many a life. On the right to religious freedom, this stunning failure to attempt to understand the faith ethos beggars belief.

It seems that the NIO and CEDAW are unaware of Article 2 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR, which states:

“No person shall be denied the right to education. In the exercise of any functions which it assumes in relation to education and to teaching, the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions”.


There has certainly been no attempt to respect these rights, when one considers the lack of consultation with parents.

The attitude of the department in the Explanatory Memorandum exposes its ignorance to its human rights obligation under Article 2 of Protocol 1. It says:

“Timing for the Department to make regulations about the circumstances in which a pupil may be excused from receiving education on the updated curriculum is a matter for the Department. There is no guarantee this will be in place by January 2024, the point at which the Department is under a duty to issue guidance to schools on the content and delivery of the updated curriculum. This may attract criticism from faith-based schools, and some teachers and parents”.


It seems to say, “So let it be. Who are they?”

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to support the Minister today—I do not very often, but I do on this matter. I begin my remarks by declaring that I am the chair of the All-Party Group on Sexual and Reproductive Health and a co-chair of the All-Party Group on HIV/AIDS.

One of the reasons why I am proud to be chair of the former is because of a woman who I never met. When I was young, I listened to my mum and my beloved Auntie Betty talking about a girl who they were at school with in the 1940s in Scotland and who got pregnant. They sat there and said, “She didnae know”. That is what happened: lots of young women got pregnant and their lives were transformed, sometimes much against their will, because they just did not know.

As a young woman in my 20s, I began to watch friends and people I knew become sick. Then, some of them went on to die. In some cases, they died because of ignorance. They died because they became HIV positive and, at that point, there was no cure. Fortunately, in the intervening period, HIV has gone on to be a condition with which people live happy, well and fulfilling lives. But I have always believed that everybody in this world has the right to information to make the right choices, and safe choices, about their body and their life. I believe that wherever they are in the world, not just the United Kingdom, but I particularly believe that it should be a right across the four nations of the UK for every young person to have access to accurate information.

Let us go back to why these regulations are in front of us. The noble Lord, Lord McCrea, read this out in his speech, which I disagreed with in many ways. But let us be absolutely clear. The CEDAW report found that, in schools in Northern Ireland, where

“relationship and sexuality education is delivered, it is frequently provided by third parties and based on anti-abortion and abstinence ethos”.

Then there is the bit that the noble Lord did not read out:

“Those factors point to State negligence in pregnancy prevention through a failure to implement its recommended curriculum on relationship and sexuality education”.


Nobody has talked about the sexuality part of it today, but we are talking about young people and HIV as well. Let us bear that in mind.

Members talked about what the Government have come up with in response as being cavalier. It is not: it is careful and considered. It is an obligation on schools to provide information on sexual and reproductive health that is age-appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate.

I happen to think that, should a parent wish to withdraw their child and prevent them accessing age-appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate SRH education, they would be a bad parent. Children should have the right to access that information, which keeps them safe. I understand entirely that that view is not shared by everybody else. Therefore, we have to make sure that there is a right to withdraw. That right is quite clear. Members of the Committee have made a great deal about the procedural cases put forward by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee in particular, but that committee does not say—nor has anybody said so far—that there is any intention on the Government’s part to frustrate the rights of parents to withdraw their children. That is not the case at all. It is absolutely the case that the Government are upholding their rights.

When we analyse the regulations and the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee’s report, it is important to see who was lobbying the committee so hard to point out flaws and faults in the process. It was the Catholic Church, the Christian Institute and Right to Life—organisations that, at every turn, have sought to prevent women, young girls and young people accessing comprehensive sexuality and relationship education, information about abortion and abortion services. The people bringing about that influence on the committee are some of those who have been guilty of providing information that CEDAW found to be wildly inaccurate and misleading. It is not just that young people run into trouble because of ignorance these days; a lot of organisations, which sometimes present themselves as crisis pregnancy advisers, now make a business out of providing information that is inaccurate and harmful.

There is much that I can and do disagree with—

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

I have sat through hour after hour of debate recently—in fact, sometimes until the early hours of the morning—in which the noble Baroness’s party in particular has demanded that legislation be stopped until the Minister comes to the House with an impact assessment. Because he had not done so, they berated him over and over again. We sat for hours going over that same thing. When was the impact assessment delivered on this legislation?

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

I listened to noble Lords talk about the impact assessment, in particular to what they said about it in relation to providers. I think that there will be an impact. The Government have actually been quite clear, because the people who will be impacted are those who have been providing inaccurate information that has harmed children.

I listened to the noble Lord’s speech. He talked about this legislation applying to primary schools. It does not; it applies to key stages 3 and 4. We are talking about supplying age-appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate information to people aged 11 to 16.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

The noble Baroness will get the report; I have the speech here. In fact, I did not say that about primary schools. I said that, as far as England is concerned, it was for primary and secondary, but not in Northern Ireland.

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

I will go back and read Hansard. I am sorry; I did not hear that distinction. I thought the noble Lord said something different.

I want to come back to the purpose of these regulations, which is to prevent unplanned pregnancies and promote sexual health and well-being. The only question I want to ask is about the evaluation of this. It is to be evaluated and a report will be presented to the Northern Ireland Assembly, which we all hope will be back up and running by then.

This is an education matter but it is also a health matter. Why was the Department of Health not included in the evaluation? If this legislation has the effect that we hope it will, there should be an increase in health outcomes for young people in Northern Ireland. The Minister may have a technical reason why that was not the case, but will he write to me at some stage about what the process of evaluation will be?

This is far from cavalier: it is a careful and considered piece of legislation and I am happy to support it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

Can I ask the Minister for some clarification? What debate on paragraph 86(d) was held in the other place? Was there a debate?

[Lord Caine (Con)]

The amendment to the executive formation Act, as it became, was put down by Stella Creasy MP in the other place, debated and passed by a resounding majority.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

I am talking not about abortion but about education.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

It placed a statutory duty on the Secretary of State to introduce CEDAW-compliant regulations in respect of both abortion services and relationships and sexual education.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

For clarification, was education mentioned in the debate?

[Lord Caine (Con)]

I do not have the Hansard from June or July 2019 in front of me but the amendment was very clear in the obligations that it placed on the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to introduce CEDAW-compliant regulations, which are now enshrined in statute.

I was about to go on to the major themes of the debate, which is why the laying of the regulations was not preceded by a public consultation—a criticism made by many noble Lords this afternoon and contained in the report of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. A number of factors led the Northern Ireland Office to the conclusion that a public consultation was not required in this instance. First, the CEDAW recommendation—I repeat: under the executive formation Act, the Secretary of State has a duty to implement it—is clear that it requires topics such as abortion and contraception to be compulsory components of the curriculum. That is what these regulations will introduce; no amount of public consultation will change the statutory requirement to comply with CEDAW.

While we are on that, the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick, asked me about the number of stakeholders that the Northern Ireland Office had discussed. I will just read out one or two of the organisations. There was Love for Life, Common Use, Amnesty, the National Society for the Protection of Young People, the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission, the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland, the Alliance for Choice and Parentkind.

Secondly, my department conducted an equality assessment under Section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, in consultation with the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland, and concluded that there was no need for the NIO to consult publicly as it is actually for the Department for Education to issue the guidance on how these issues are taught in schools and for monitoring and collecting any equality data.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

If the noble Baroness will forgive me, I shall address that issue in a second or two.

Thirdly, we were also informed by the Department of Education in a briefing paper that significant stakeholder consultation haud taken place on the RSE Progression Framework that it has been developing with the Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment over a number of years. This is the document that will be updated and used as guidance issued by the department.

Although the current law and circumstances dictate that it falls to the Northern Ireland Office that CEDAW-compliant RSE is a compulsory part of the curriculum, it is rightly for the Department of Education in Northern Ireland to take that requirement forward. In that context, I can inform noble Lords that the Department of Education has now assured us that it aims to launch a public consultation on both the guidance and the opt-out scheme at the beginning of the 2023-24 academic year—that is, in September—to meet the duty to issue guidance by 1 January 2024.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

In reference to consultation, the court noted that

“the consultation which did take place in the context of the Regulations was limited to the issue of abortion but did not deal specifically with the issue of education on sexual and reproductive health or a strategy to combat gender based stereotypes as set out in paras 86(d) and (f) of the CEDAW Report. However, these paras are not referred to in the 2020 Regulations nor are they contained in the 2021 Directions under challenge. In the event that Regulations or Directions are made in the future to deal with those issues then there will be an opportunity for the Secretary of State”—

not the Department of Education—

“to carry out a consultation”.

Why did he not do it?

[Lord Caine (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his speech but I have addressed the Government’s position in respect of the public consultation.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

I read out the judgment of the court, not a speech from me.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

I am grateful for the noble Lord’s clarification. I set out the rationale behind the Government’s decision not to proceed with the public consultation in advance of the laying of these regulations. I am not sure whether he was listening to me but I made it very clear that the Department of Education in Northern Ireland will now take forward a public consultation on these matters at the start of the next academic year, in September, with a view to meeting the 1 January deadline. I do not think that I could be clearer in my comments on that.

In addition, the Department of Education also aims to make regulations for parents to withdraw their children from the required education by 1 January 2024, thus ensuring that there will be an option for parents to withdraw their children on issues such as abortion and contraception should they so wish. That deals directly with issues raised by, among others, the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Belmont.

The regulations are not intended to be overly prescriptive—

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

Even if parents—

[Lord Caine (Con)]

I am sorry; I have been very generous to the noble Lord. He spoke for a long time earlier in the debate. I am conscious that other Grand Committee debates need to take place after this one so, if he will forgive me, out of respect for other colleagues —including my noble friend Lord Johnson, who is sitting patiently—I will continue.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, mentioned external providers. I can assure her that my officials are in constant contact with the department and will continue this engagement, although it is principally a matter for the Department of Education in Northern Ireland.

I hope that this gives some reassurance to a number of noble Lords that the views of the public will be properly taken into account before the final guidance is issued by 1 January 2024. I can confirm that that is very much the target for publication.

I will try to be as quick as I can. A number of noble Lords raised issues in relation to the rights of parents and the ECHR. We of course respect and recognise the rights afforded by Article 2 in the first protocol to the ECHR. We assess that the regulations have been drafted in accordance with convention rights. It is the Government’s firm view that it is compatible to inform children of the legal right to an abortion in Northern Ireland and how relevant services may be accessed without advocating a particular view on the moral and ethical considerations. Providing such information would not affect the ability of parents to provide advice and guidance to their children in keeping with their religious and philosophical views, which we all respect, and therefore we are, in our view, also compatible with Articles 9 and 10 of the ECHR.

Noble Lords referred to the slight differences between England and Wales and Northern Ireland throughout the debate. The statutory guidance in England references prevention of early pregnancy and abortion and, as such, is similar to what is required under CEDAW. We believe that the regulations are the most appropriate way of meeting our statutory obligations and what CEDAW requires, while keeping as closely aligned as possible with other parts of the UK.

The noble Lord, Lord Dodds of Duncairn, referred to the Explanatory Memorandum. He has the advantage of me, in that I do not have a copy in front of me. I will endeavour to provide greater explanation of the Explanatory Memorandum in due course. My understanding is that there will of course be an impact on the department because of the duty to provide guidance, but the exact nature of that impact will not be known until the guidance has been more fully developed and is published.

I have tried, in as brief a time as possible and with respect to colleagues who are coming after me, to deal with a number of points this afternoon. If there are any issues outstanding, I will of course write to any noble Lord who requires further clarification. On that note, I beg to move.

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 26th June 2023 Lords Chamber

We have to try to prevent glorification of what happened in the past, because what happened in the past was wrong. It caused mayhem, destruction and murder, and it robbed many families of their loved ones. In supporting Amendment 114A, I urge noble Lords to consider that there are paramilitary forces out there—and a certain political party—that are involved in deep levels of revisionism at this moment in time.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, I join my noble friend Lord Dodds and the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, in supporting Amendments 114A and 114B in the names of my noble friends Lord Dodds, Lord Weir and Lord Morrow.

Recently, the absentee MP for North Belfast, John Finucane, was the main speaker at what was billed a “South Armagh Volunteers commemoration and fun day”. Let me remind noble Lords of just one action of these South Armagh IRA terrorists—there is certainly no reason to celebrate it, or even commemorate it. I want noble Lords to imagine a young husband leaving home and going to work as usual. His family hear later on that their loved one has gone missing; his young wife is pregnant and has three young children already. Think of the agony this family circle is going through as it becomes clear that the IRA have abducted this young man. Think of the absolute terror he is feeling as he is hooded and taken captive by IRA terrorists.

Then there comes that—in many ways inevitable—phone call that tells the family that that young man has been found dead. However, that call also tells them that his body cannot be recovered, even though it is seen lying in a field in south Armagh, because it is surrounded by Claymore mines. Yes, that body is booby-trapped to explode if moved. A huge, 500-pound bomb is attached to him in milk churns, with command wires leading across the border. Any attempt to move him will blow his corpse to pieces, along with anyone attempting to retrieve him. The authorities have to let him lie there, dead, covered in blood and mud, naked except for his pants and on display for all to see, until the explosives are defused by the bomb squad. Can anyone with a heart have any idea what that dear wife, her three young children and the family circle have to go through as they wait and wait?

In another place, a Member of Parliament at that time said:

“One of his relatives said that they were horrified at the look of torture and agony … on the face. The fingers of both hands were blackened to the knuckles and holes were punched in the finger tips. Handfuls of grass and earth were clutched in the hands. One side of the face was smashed … to the extent that the nose was broken and displaced to one side. Both arms seemed limp and the genitals had been kicked until swollen out of all proportion. The teeth were smashed, he was shot through the wrists, the mouth, the neck, the throat and several times in the chest”.—[Official Report, Commons, 25/5/72; col. 1788.].


What was his crime? His crime was that he was a part-time UDR corporal. Of course, Sinn Féin said that he was therefore a legitimate target; he was a part of the British war machine, simply because he wore the uniform and tried to keep people safe from those who so cowardly and viciously ended his life. Sinn Féin’s Michelle O’Neill has claimed that there was no alternative to such IRA activity and yet, amazingly, she is lauded and applauded by Presidents and Secretaries of State, and John Finucane thinks such deserve to be commemorated—actually, their names written on a marble scroll as if they were heroes and then celebrated with a family fun day.

I ask you: what sort of persons could be so evil as to commit such torture on another human being? What sort of mentality justifies this in any shape or form? Nobody has ever been charged or convicted of this murder, this torture, and those who directed it are equally guilty. The so-called IRA Army Council has not been brought before the International Court of Justice. Rather, some of its leaders are lauded and applauded too. The Sinn Féin leaders and John Finucane talk much about and demand inquiries, they pontificate about human rights, equality and justice, but they do not want justice for them. They do not want inquiries into their leadership role in some of the most vile atrocities ever carried out against mankind. All they want is to blame the police, the Army and the part-time soldiers—indeed, everyone who stood against their 30-year campaign of slaughter and murder in their quest for their dream of a united Ireland. Sadly, on many occasions, successive Governments rolled over to Sinn Féin demands and granted it concession after concession. Even just over a week ago, we found that the chief constable apologised to those who were called the hooded men. I ask the Minister: does this legislation stop the memorialisation and glorification of those terrorists across our community?

I finish by saying that every year, in January, I gather with others at the side of a road outside Cookstown, the Teebane. The men there were returning from doing an honest day’s work, but they were murdered, slaughtered, on their way home. We stand at a roadside. Yes, there is a stone there with the names of those lads on it: not to glorify but to humbly remember that they were cruelly done to death along that road.

We cannot have the glorification of terrorist acts. They are to be condemned. While many tell us that everyone, every political party in Northern Ireland, is against this legislation, let me make it clear that the party which I belong to is not to be equated with Sinn Féin/IRA, because its objection to the legislation is that it does not want its comrades to be prosecuted, but it wants the security forces to be persecuted. I will not lend my hand to that.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I speak to support Amendments 117 and 118 in my name but agree with the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, as well.

I want to look at the academic research clause, because it addresses a problem with the Government’s funding body, UK Research and Innovation and its councils. Many of us interested in legacy are genuinely concerned about what seems to be the one-sided nature of much of the academic research into our past and the way that the funding has been monopolised by what could be seen as a single legal view that is radical and investigates only faults with the UK state and its security responses during the Troubles.

I need to refer to the Queen’s University Belfast’s transitional justice department, which produced the model legacy Bill and many briefings that Opposition and Cross-Bench Peers will have been provided with. That department alone has received the huge amount of £4 million in funding for legacy research—nobody else has. The transitional justice department works in open conjunction with the Committee on the Administration of Justice, the CAJ, which is a largely anti-state nationalist body in Belfast that encourages legacy litigation. Indeed, it is leading efforts to get the Dublin Government to take an inter-state case against the United Kingdom at the European Court of Human Rights over this very Bill once it receives Royal Assent.

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 21st June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Morrow (DUP)]

My Lords, the Minister was at pains to point out that Amendment 2 is all about reconciliation, yet no matter how much you search through the Bill, there is no definition of reconciliation in it. I am having difficulty, as are my colleagues, in being reconciled to the Bill and to have reconciliation with it, but I hope the Minister will—and I am sure he will—when he is winding up on Clause 2, give his definition of reconciliation. It seems to me that reconciliation means different things to different people. I am sure he will have observed that all the victims groups that have spoken about the Bill have not spoken in favour of it; therefore, I think he has a job to do. However, as my noble friend Lord Weir has said, we will not be dividing the House on this, but I earnestly ask the Minister why there is no definition of reconciliation in the Bill.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, I know my noble friend Lord Weir touched on this, but Amendment 3 requires the ICRIR to

“have regard to the general interests of persons affected by Troubles-related deaths and serious injuries”.

I ask the Minister to clarify: have the Government failed conclusively to rule out perpetrators, including those who died or were injured at their own hand, from the scope of this duty which is now being placed upon the ICRIR? It would certainly be wrong that those who have been perpetrators and died or were injured at their own hand should be placed on the same level as those who are innocent victims.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I place on record my thanks to the Minister for introducing Amendments 85 and 86, which, in essence, as he has said, are the same amendments that I tabled in Committee and were recommended by the victims’ commissioner, Ian Jeffers. It is a very welcome and common-sense change to the Bill, allowing for individuals affected by death and other harmful conduct to provide and publish personal statements to the ICRIR. I am very grateful that he is willing to make this small but important change, notwithstanding my earlier comments about the bigger picture of the Bill, including, in particular, immunity and other issues that we will get to later this evening. I will be very interested to hear the Minister’s response to the important points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, about the potential conflict between reconciliation and investigation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Viscount Brookeborough (CB)]

My Lords, I have listened to everything. I have not bothered to intervene because I basically agree that this is not a great Bill and that all we can hope to do is make it less damaging to what is happening in Northern Ireland.

The one thing that strikes me is that reconciliation is on the face of the Bill. I have been struggling with that and with the definition of “reconciliation”. I decided to look it up on my phone. It is on the face of the Bill: therefore, it is the number one objective of the Bill. If we had reconciliation, we would not be worried about the other things. “Reconciliation” is defined as

“the restoration of friendly relations”

and

“the action of making one view or belief compatible with another”.

The definition goes on to say

“an act of reconciling, as when former enemies agree to an amicable truce”.

The problem is that we know that there is not an amicable truce. We know from the glorification of terrorism and lots of other parts of what we have been discussing that that is not there. Yet it is on the face of the Bill as being the number one objective.

What troubles so many of us in Northern Ireland, whether our families have directly suffered a death, or for all the people we k now who have suffered and their families—one family has been mentioned; three of my soldiers were killed, one after the other, and a sister was mown down on a checkpoint for serving in the security forces—is that the people in Northern Ireland see the Bill coming and would love to have reconciliation but the Government are not giving one little inch to assuaging their lives and their fears. I know that there have been amendments, and everybody is very grateful for that, but, if people are to accept this and if it is to work, there has to be something significant, so they actually feel that it was made for them.

All I plead is this: we really hope that the Government accept some of these amendments, which will enable people to say “Yes, but they have done this and they have worked towards us, and we want to make it work”. We know that at the moment virtually nobody in Northern Ireland is saying that.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, Amendment 61A stands in the name of my noble friends Lord Dodds, Lord Weir and Lord Morrow. The explanatory statement says:

“This amendment would require an individual to be disengaged from activity which would be reasonably regarded as precluding reconciliation in order to be eligible for immunity from prosecution”.


There is another amendment in the name of my noble friends that is in a similar vein.

I draw attention to something that my noble friend Lord Dodds has already mentioned. There is a question in my mind concerning the legislation as it stands. My noble friend mentioned the late Joe Clarke, one of the hooded men who received an apology on his deathbed from the chief constable of the PSNI over his treatment while he was interned in 1971. He was one of 14 men who claimed that they were subjected to state-sanctioned torture. They all claim innocence. However, at his funeral the other day, Mr Clarke was buried with what appeared to be full so-called IRA military honours: his coffin was draped in the tricolour and he was escorted by men and women in some sort of uniform—white gloves, black ties and white shirts. I believe that this is reserved for members of the IRA, particularly those who have carried out what is known as IRA active service—and we know what that really means.

To deepen the plot, one of those carrying Clarke’s coffin in that military-style uniform was none other than a man who had been arrested and imprisoned over the murder of two soldiers at the Massereene barracks in Antrim during the time when I was the local Member of Parliament for that constituency. That person and his doctors told the court that he had only three to four years to live at most. Strangely, 14 years later, he is the picture of health, miraculously cured and carrying an IRA man’s coffin. Actually, that person is a neighbour of mine. I ask the Minister this: would the likes of Mr Shivers receive immunity or an amnesty under the present legislation as it stands, without the amendments suggested by my noble friends Lord Dodds, Lord Weir and Lord Morrow?

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, the sheer number and scope of amendments in this group should serve as a clear indication to the Government that there continue to be grave concerns about the proposals for immunity set out in Clause 18. I have added my name on behalf of these Benches to Amendment 66, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, and also signed by the noble Baronesses, Lady O’Loan and Lady Ritchie, which would remove Clause 18.

Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007 (Extension of Duration of Non-jury Trial Provisions) Order 2023

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown Excerpts

Monday 5th June 2023 Grand Committee

Finally, I am sure that the Minister is aware of the recent criminal justice report which expresses concern regarding the length of time required to bring a prosecution in Northern Ireland Crown Courts. The report is very critical of the Public Prosecution Service and the Police Service of Northern Ireland. It revealed that 50% of evidence presented is not complete, leading to delay. It also revealed that the quality of criminal case files was extremely poor: 54% of Crown Court files did not meet, or only partially met, file standards, and police files took far too long to prepare. Does the Minister agree that it is important that both the police service and the Public Prosecution Service need to be vastly improved? Is it not time that the Police Service of Northern Ireland is adequately funded so that it can speed up these cases?

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the manner in which he introduced the legislation. Not one of us from Northern Ireland would desire to have this legislation on the statute book at all; we would love to see its end. But then we have to ask ourselves: is it needed? The statistics have been produced in the Explanatory Memorandum, and the notes provided under the heading “policy background” at paragraph 7.5 remind us that on 28 March 2023, the level of threat in Northern Ireland related to terrorism increased from “substantial” to “severe”. We wish it were not true, but it is the reality of the situation on the ground.

We have a continual severe threat, especially against members of the security forces. We saw that with DCI Caldwell, but we thank God in His mercy that his life was spared. I join the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, in expressing absolute delight that he was able to be present with His Majesty the King at the garden party. That certainly shows an improvement. We hope that that continues and that he will be restored to a very good measure of health and strength. We know that that was not the intention of those who had planned his murder. Sad to say, the reality of the situation is that they in their hearts would have plans to continue. There is no reason to believe that the terrorist organisations—the dissident republicans—wish to step aside from their acts of terror. We have to face that reality, and the order before us does that.

There is genuine concern about jury threat, intimidation, tampering, or even bias, but we want to ensure that the administration of justice in Northern Ireland, which is the heartbeat of any democratic society, continues. I know that we would long to see the Minister say that this is the last occasion on which that he would ever bring these provisions before your Lordships. However, we have seen just how long they have continued until now. It is not in the hands of noble Lords in this Committee to bring that about, but we hope and pray that we will soon ensure that it is unnecessary and get back to jury trials, which would be more acceptable within society.

I have a simple question for the Minister. I notice from the notes we were given that only a small number of responses were made to the extension of the order; only a very small number of representations were made. Does he have any reason why the number was so small? Does he believe that the community in general is willing to accept that this is a reality that has to be carried on in Northern Ireland at this specific time?

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for his detailed explanation of this order. Without repeating the various points made by other noble Lords in this short debate, I add my voice to those saying that this eighth extension of these provisions is deeply to be regretted, but clearly, while the threat from terrorism remains severe and given the current levels of paramilitary activity and intimidation, the Government, supported by the continued work of the multidisciplinary working group, are right to continue with the provisions. I note that, following the consultations, nine respondents agreed with the need to extend the provisions and two were against.

There can never be any excuse for terrorism or murder in Northern Ireland. Any such acts have to be utterly and roundly condemned. The shooting of John Caldwell was horrendous and devastating for him and his family. As the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, said, there has been an escalation in other incidents—perhaps lower in profile but none the less deeply worrying. I add my voice to the relief—congratulations is perhaps too strong a word—that John Caldwell is now making a full recovery. I wish him and his family well in that continued recovery.

As others have said, on these Benches we profoundly believe in the right to trial by jury. We must work to find practical solutions to manage the risk of juror intimidation and robust juror protection measures.

In conclusion, like others, I very much hope that this is the last time we need to see an extension of these provisions. Let us hope that by the time of the next revision, the Executive and the Assembly are once again fully functioning and that the security situation in Northern Ireland is very much improved.

Northern Ireland (Interim Arrangements) Bill

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown Excerpts

3rd reading & Committee stage
Tuesday 23rd May 2023 Lords Chamber

If the Government refuse to negotiate the restoration of democracy in Northern Ireland with the European Union, or they refuse to legislate to do that, the responsibility for the current situation will be on their own head. Rather than leaving civil servants to try to run the place in Northern Ireland—they have been placed in an incredibly invidious position—Ministers, whether in Northern Ireland or here, should be the ones who take those decisions.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, I too support the amendment in the name of my noble friends Lord Dodds and Lord Morrow. I also apologise for not being able to be present at Second Reading last Thursday. I am sure that it does not escape the notice of noble Lords that there was a council election on that day. Everyone knew about it, including the Government, yet they had a Second Reading debate on a Northern Ireland Bill in this House.

Like the Minister when he spoke on that occasion, I too regret the fact that we are debating the legislation in the absence of an Executive at Stormont, but the Government have known for over 13 months that a functioning Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive could not continue until the genuine concerns expressed by the unionist elected representatives were adequately addressed. One can bury one’s head in the sand or face reality. We have found out in recent days that burying one’s head in the sand does not do anything; therefore, you have to face reality.

The Northern Ireland protocol and the Windsor Framework were forced on the Northern Ireland people without consent. We all know that the Belfast agreement was built on the very foundation of cross-community consent, but, sadly, the constitutional position of Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom was compromised to appease Europe during the withdrawal arrangements and at the behest of the Irish Republic.

In last week’s debate, the Minister stated that the 25th anniversary of the Belfast agreement is

“an opportunity for all of us to recommit to building an even brighter future for Northern Ireland. Now is the time to decide how we want to move forward together, to create a better future for and deliver on the priorities of the people of Northern Ireland. That includes a more prosperous economy and better, more sustainable public finances and services”.—[Official Report, 18/5/23; col. 381.]

No one could disagree with the sentiments so ably expressed by the Minister, who I think genuinely believed in them. But, in reality, that is all that they were: sentiments.

As we all know, since we last met in the House to discuss Northern Ireland business, there has been an election. Over recent months, the people of Northern Ireland, especially unionist voters, have been bombarded with endless anti-DUP propaganda, much to the delight of some and the dismay of others—so there has been a process of brainwashing the public. Not only was that fuelled by political opponents within republicanism or nationalism but so-called independent observers and commentators—cheered, aided and abetted by the so-called great and good in society—joined in to blame every ill in society on the DUP, including the smallest pothole in some back laneway and the serious, long and grievous waiting lists in the health service.

Of course, none of that happened and those accusations were not made when Sinn Féin boycotted the other place, and Stormont and the Northern Ireland Executive for three years. In fact, I remember debates in this very House when we were told that we were all to grow up and do something to get us out of the situation. In actual fact, it was Sinn Féin that had stepped aside from the Executive and from Stormont, but Members of this House did not have the courage to name Sinn Féin. No: everyone was to blame. We were supposed to be to blame for the actions of Sinn Féin. They pointed the finger and chided us, telling us to return to the Northern Ireland Executive. So here we are today.

After all the brainwashing, the unionist community took a principled stand, as did its elected representatives, on our constitutional rights and demanded to be treated as equal citizens within the United Kingdom. Of course, we are now told that the answer to every ill will be to return to Stormont. Many in this House hoped that, with all the brainwashing process in operation, they would witness the demise, or least the humiliation, of the DUP in the election and the elevation of the Alliance Party as the up-and-coming, as they saw it, central bloc to challenge the DUP. That did not happen. Indeed, Members of this House must face the reality that we have not gone away, you know.

There has been a lot of talk since the election about Sinn Féin’s political tsunami at the election. In reality, the DUP faced a political tsunami of criticism and bile before the election but, through the ballot box, we now know that the unionist people expect their politicians, at a critical moment, to honour their election manifesto pledges, no matter how hard the road will be, and we will.

It is true that Sinn Féin has increased its representation and become the largest party within local government by practically wiping out the SDLP, but was the political tsunami as it has been told to us? In actual fact, Members have perhaps not realised that Sinn Féin went down 20,000 votes in the council elections from the last test one year ago, the Assembly election. The Alliance Party went down by 17,000 votes, the Ulster Unionists by 15,000 votes and the SDLP by 13,000 votes. The party that went down least in votes since that last test was the DUP. I know that this is very hard for some to swallow. Indeed, commentators nearly choked admitting it, and the media outlets found it extremely hard to acknowledge that the DUP did not lose one seat at the Northern Ireland council elections.

So we faced political brainwashing, which failed, but we now face and confront what is, in my book, political blackmail. Part of the Bill’s provisions relate to decision-making for the Northern Ireland Civil Service. Recently, the Government set a budget and, according to the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council, civil servants will be expected to find £800 million in cuts and revenue-raising measures. The cuts demanded are harsher than any facing other Whitehall departments, but it is hoped that, when they begin to hit the community, the DUP will be blamed again.

Civil servants now want to meet the political parties in Northern Ireland to guide them where to make the cuts and to slash services. That is what the new Executive are supposed to do. Because of this budget, we are told that 300 fewer nurses will be trained this year while the health service is already understaffed. To pay the nurses a proper wage, as negotiated on the mainland, more cuts will have to come. That is at a time when the Government here in London boast that they plan to train thousands more nurses and doctors.

Under New Decade, New Approach, we were promised that police numbers would be 7,500, but while in England the Government boast of recruiting 20,000 new police officers, our chief constable tells us that we are to reduce our numbers of police officers, which are now down to 6,500.

My noble friend Lord Morrow outlined that, compared to Scotland and Wales, our budget has been underfunded by £1.2 billion. In my honest opinion, this underfunding and unfair budget for Northern Ireland is not by chance but by design. Those in authority know well that these cuts, when they come, will hurt the sick, children, the vulnerable, the elderly and the weakest in society, but they believe that this would be a price worth paying to force the Assembly and the Executive to get up and running.

The Government have already told us that the black hole in our finances was because of the Executive and that Assembly decisions and the crisis in the health service, infrastructure and education happened under the stewardship of this Executive. What can the Executive do to alleviate the problems facing society when they are told that they will have to make cuts, and more cuts? I am reminded of when I was in the other place and the Labour Government were leaving office, and a certain Minister wrote a famous note that said, “There’s no money left”. We are told that there have to be cuts, but we all know that this is to be used to endeavour to blackmail the DUP to get back into the Executive, with a nod and a wink that money will follow if they do—in other words, the money tree will magically blossom again. But that would be at the cost of tramping over every genuine promise made to the unionist electorate that we would stand firm until the Government granted us equal rights within the United Kingdom. Some will say, “Isn’t that what most parties do—break their promises?”

As I conclude, I have no doubt that the Government, facing the reality posed by recent elections, will seek to cobble something together, hoping to satisfy some with meaningless words, but that will not do. Unionists as well as nationalists have faced difficult days because of the 30 years of the IRA campaign but, with resolve and belief in the right of our cause, we must prevail. I trust that the party in government, which prides itself on being named the Conservative and Unionist Party, will honour the pledge it made to the people of Northern Ireland to respect all parts of this United Kingdom, and thereby rid us of the undemocratic protocol and Windsor Framework and allocate the necessary funds to make life more comfortable for the less well-off. I support the amendment.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I will endeavour to be fairly brief. I have quite a lot of sympathy with the DUP amendment. Indeed, I raised similar points at Second Reading last week, and it is similar to an amendment tabled in the House of Commons by my friend Stephen Farry MP.

There is no doubt that Northern Ireland faces an extremely challenging situation as regards future public financing, but I am afraid that I completely agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie: surely the place for this to be debated is the Northern Ireland Assembly. I am under no illusions that a fully functioning Assembly and Executive would immediately be able to resolve these complex issues, but they would provide one strong voice to lobby the Treasury—a voice that is much closer to the people affected by these issues.

I have to say to the noble Lord, Lord McCrea, that I am a democrat—a Liberal Democrat—and someone who believes in the union and believes strongly in democracy. Both the House of Lords and the House of Commons have overwhelmingly supported the Windsor Framework agreement. I hear what noble Lords have said; I understand there is still a strong feeling about this issue. I sincerely hope the Assembly and Executive will be fully functioning as soon as possible but, listening to the debate this afternoon, I am perhaps less optimistic than I was before the debate. Can the Minister say, if it is not fully functioning again, how these issues will be dealt with in terms of parliamentary oversight? I presume, as ever, he will consult and involve all the political parties on this, as a Bill has to come forward, but this is just a plea to the Minister to make sure that all parties are consulted. Could he say a few words about how parliamentary oversight could be properly achieved? I plea, one more time, to the noble Lords opposite: surely a fully functioning Assembly and Executive is the best way forward, to have their voice heard loud and clear.