Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown Excerpts

Monday 20th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Leigh]

It may happen that creationism or some other belief becomes a quasi-religious belief. In fact, many people believe it is a religious belief. If I was a passionate creationist—

[Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP)]

rose—

[Mr Leigh]

Let me finish. I have at least got to answer the question.

If that formed the basis of my deepest religious beliefs, I personally think it would be wrong if I was victimised in my workplace for speaking in favour of—or indeed against—creationism.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr McCrea]

Will the hon. Gentleman acknowledge that quite a number of very eminent scientists believe in the scriptures and the creation?

[Mr Leigh]

Some people hold these beliefs passionately, and they should have a right to speak out and not lose their job as a result.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman and I clearly have a difference of opinion; he will not be surprised about that. In the Bill Committee, we heard that in a poll 40,000 teachers had expressed concern about this. We cannot ignore that number of teachers.

The danger is made more real in the light of the case of Stewart v. Cleveland-Guest (Engineering) Ltd, where the court interpreted

“discrimination on the grounds of sex”

as including some conduct that would fall into the category of “harassment”. Therefore, by analogy, the use of so-called offensive language may be held to amount to sexual orientation discrimination. Moreover, under EU anti-discrimination law, the European Court of Justice held in the case of Firma Feryn that offensive statements may sometimes amount to discrimination. John Bowers QC has raised similar issues in his advice to the Coalition for Marriage. Members heard the same legal opinion expressed in the Bill Committee, as I did in the seminar that I went to with the hon. Member for Congleton.

The Secretary of State has responded to these concerns by saying that her clear understanding is that

“discussion or criticism of same sex marriage would not be ‘of itself’ discrimination under the current law.”

[Dr McCrea]

Does my hon. Friend believe that if a teacher were taken to court and said that the Secretary of State has suggested that they should be protected, the court would find that sufficient?

[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right; we need this protection, and it must be enshrined in legislation by this House to ensure that it means something. We cannot just depend on an interpretation that some people might have.

The Secretary of State continued:

“This would only happen if the discussion or criticism took place in an inappropriate manner or in a context which resulted in discrimination against, or a detriment to, a particular pupil or group of pupils.”

She said that the same is true of discussion or criticism of same-sex relationships generally, and concluded:

“Nothing in the Bill affects people’s ability to hold and express their belief that marriage should be between a man and a woman.”

However, this assurance fails sufficiently to protect freedom of expression, as my hon. Friend suggested.