Education Bill

Lord McAvoy Excerpts

Monday 11th July 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Howells of St Davids]

My Lords, I support the amendment. I do this because most people have concentrated on the curriculum but I would like to speak a little about the children who will receive the curriculum. My understanding is that teachers act in loco parentis. One of the most important tasks of parents is to love and nurture their children in all the many guises of that task. As educators, one would expect teachers to assume the role designated to them as they often spend more time with children than parents can afford to do in today’s world. One way of doing that is to ensure that all children are offered the choice of an enriching curriculum, as outlined in the noble Baroness’s amendment. The amendment outlines many areas in which teachers have an opportunity to see the child in his or her entirety.

The children in our schools have issues when they come to school. Some are angry through having knowledge of terrible deeds, some are fearful, some are traumatised by the loss of loved ones, some are insecure and some are reluctant to engage. Surely, not being able to find a safe, reliable place in which to express their feelings will not enhance their talents. Many of the areas listed in the amendment would, if adopted, make a school a beneficial place for children in today’s world. We may need a charter for learners when looking at the sort of curriculum we should be providing.

Teachers should be able to fulfil a parental role. That is something that we need to look at very carefully when we are talking about a curriculum for schools in today’s world. When children are at play or are performing tasks they enjoy, you get more from them, learn more about what they are doing and are really in a position to guide them. Looking at a child playing a game, playing music or talking about it shows us the way to build the curriculum.

[Lord McAvoy]

My Lords, I shall speak briefly as I am well aware of the frustration of the government whip, who may feel that there is a filibuster going on. God forbid that that should be the case. I have no experience of the English education system as I was born, went to school and have spent all my life in Scotland. However, I appreciate the principles behind the amendment and this section of the Bill. Everybody wants a broad balance in the curriculum; that is motherhood and apple pie. I was struck by the account of the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, of a meeting on the national curriculum, where all the different lobbies tried to get their own obsession or point of view across.

I certainly favour having a core curriculum, but the details of the amendment are such that it may impose restrictions on the ability of faith schools to have the flexibility to take account of the core curriculum but at the same time pursue the ethos of their faith in their schools. It seems to me that this amendment—

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[Lord Elton]

Can I ask whoever has got that telephone next to their microphone to move it because those of us using the loop are being drowned out by the sound of their telephone sending wireless signals?

[Lord McAvoy]

I hear what my noble friend said. She is a very formidable person and I have some trepidation in having a difference of opinion with her. Nevertheless, I remind her in all benevolence and kindness that she used the expression “indoctrination” in the same context as faith schools. A lot of people would take exception to that. I certainly take exception to that because I do not believe that faith schools indoctrinate. I doubt that a faith school, irrespective of whether it is Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Buddhist, would accept that it should have a curriculum and teach no faith. I can give an example of that because faith schools were mentioned by the mover of the amendment. In Scotland, in one of the biggest Roman Catholic schools I am told that between 10 per cent and 20 per cent of the school population are Muslim children because it is a part of Glasgow where there is a high Muslim population. It seems to me that there is no indoctrination going on there. In my opinion, and I am entitled to put my point of view, this amendment would impose restrictions on faith schools and limit their ability to tailor their curriculum, not to tamper with the core curriculum or to ignore it, but to build their curriculum around their faith and ethos. I oppose the amendment.

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, I will be brief in my response as I am very conscious that there are a number of noble Lords waiting to move amendments. The issue at heart in this typically wide-ranging and thought-provoking debate is quite simple and is one that we have debated many times before; namely, what is the proper amount of prescription that there should be? It does not follow that the only way to demonstrate the value of a subject is that it should be in the national curriculum. Not everything needs to be in it to show its worth. I agree very much with the points that the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, made at the beginning about the importance of art, music and sport. I agree with her wholeheartedly on that. It is obviously the case that maintained schools, CTCs and academies are required by law or through their funding agreements to provide a broad and balanced curriculum. I would not want schools to provide a narrow education.

I do not agree with the criticisms of the EBacc as a narrowing measure. As noble Lords know, what is driving us on the EBacc is the simple fact that at the moment 4 per cent of children on free school meals have those EBacc subject qualifications, which are the qualifications most likely to get them to a top university. It is about trying to redress the balance and give some of those children more of a chance. It is not about wanting to narrow the range of subjects that people have. As the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, pointed out most forcefully, and my noble friend Lord Baker also made the point, over the years, the national curriculum has come to cover more and more subjects, to prescribe more and more outcomes and to take up more and more school time. We want to move away from that approach to give teachers greater freedom to design a curriculum that meets the needs of their pupils, which is why we are reviewing the national curriculum to ensure that in future it does not absorb the overwhelming majority of teaching time in schools and provides more space. Then the important subjects that the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, talked about will have more time and space to be delivered in the appropriate way by the staff who know their pupils in their schools. There is an important distinction to be made between the national curriculum and the wider school curriculum. We want to get away from the approach that just because a topic or subject is important, it has to be specified in the national curriculum, or that because it is not in the national curriculum, that means that it is not important or should not be taught. Neither of those positions is true.

The noble Baroness, Lady Massey, asked specifically about the national curriculum. It might be helpful if I reply briefly. However, if I can let her have a fuller reply on where we have got to with the national curriculum review and on some of her questions about the terms of reference—where we have got to and how we are going forward—which we can circulate more widely, I shall do so. In essence, it is being conducted in two phases. The first phase is drafting new programmes of study for English, maths, science and PE, which we have confirmed will remain statutory in maintained schools at all four key stages. I think that that was the assurance that my noble friend Lord Moynihan was seeking. This first phase is also considering which other subjects, if any, should be part of the national curriculum in future and at which key stages. We expect to announce our proposals from this phase early next year. Then they will follow a full public consultation on those proposals.

In the second phase, we will consider the content and design of the programmes of study for any other subjects that are to remain within the national curriculum and whether non-statutory guidance should be produced to support the continued teaching of any other subjects or topics. We are being advised by an expert panel as well as by an advisory committee consisting mainly of successful head teachers and including representation from higher education and employers. The terms of reference which the noble Baroness asked for are on our website, but I will send them to her. I hope that soon—she will know this because we have discussed it over many months—I will be able to let her have the remit of the PSHE review, which she also asked me about.

We have spoken briefly about sport. She asked me specifically about the Chance to Shine initiative. Over the period 2009-13, the ECB is receiving £38 million from Sport England to support its whole sport plan, of which £7.2 million is being invested directly into Chance to Shine, which I think is a small increase.

We had a brief conversation about Singapore and what it can teach us. As my noble friend Lady Walmsley pointed out, it is the case that life skills are taught. As it happens, it also does the equivalent of the EBacc, which suggests that these things are not incompatible and which is where we want to be. That is all I want to say in response. We will come back to some of these other issues in further groups, which will raise important issues. But, at heart, it is our view that boiling down what is in the national curriculum—providing more space, being less prescriptive and looking to professionals who know more about what they are doing in the classroom than do Ministers—is the right way forward. With that, I would ask the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.