Fisheries Bill [HL]

Lord Mawson Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard - continued) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Monday 2nd March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lansley]

My Lords, if my noble friend will forgive me, I want to interject for a short moment, not about the definition of the national benefit objective but on the second part of this group of amendments, relating to a landing requirement. It struck me as a useful debate to have in Committee. For a start, it allows us to expose the question of whether Ministers want to be in the position to impose any kind of landing requirement under any circumstances.

Personally, I was pleased to hear the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, say that setting a landing requirement for foreign boats in UK waters would simply lead to the imposition of the same requirement on British boats in other waters, and I am not sure that is where we want to end up. I am glad that both speakers from Labour and the Liberal Democrats have endorsed the view that this should apply only to fishing in our exclusive economic zone; it would need not to apply, or to be able to be exempted, for distant-waters fishing. I hope noble Lords will forgive me for saying that to set 70% or 75% in primary legislation would make no sense whatever. Putting that to one side—and saying that therefore the amendments do not work—it raises a very interesting question: does the Bill, under any circumstances, allow fishing authorities in the United Kingdom to set any kind of landing requirement? I do not know the answer; I cannot find it anywhere. I wonder whether it is thought potentially never to be necessary under any circumstances. It seems to me that there is a potential mischief involved in the ownership and use of quota, which could be remedied either through the allocation of quotas or through a landing requirement. I am not sure that Ministers have told us whether under any circumstances they would use the former and never the latter. That is an interesting question.

[Lord Mawson (CB)]

My Lords, I will not detain the House for long. I am encouraged by this debate. Last year I sat on the committee on regenerating coastal and seaside towns. We looked in a lot of detail at what is happening to our seaside towns—at the poverty and great difficulty they are experiencing. I am certainly not an expert on what the quotas should or should not be, but this kind of discussion is a source of encouragement, and is putting its finger on the issues and on the opportunities that may come to these towns if we push these ideas. It feels as though there is movement on getting to grips with the positive opportunities that may now result from the time we are in. I thank the Committee for this helpful discussion.

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern]

My Lords, I wonder whether this question of landing obligations will need to be resolved in the fisheries negotiations during the coming “passage of arms” with the EU. I believe that there is a good deal of voluntary landing in our ports by foreign fishing vessels at the moment, and one of the reasons for that is the efficiency of the transfer from these ports to the European market. They are able to get their fish stocks to the European market from some ports very quickly—in a way that, if they had to take them back to Spain or southern France, would take much longer and probably be less efficiently organised. I do not know whether it needs compulsion, but compulsion would need to be authorised as part of the future negotiations.

Littering from Vehicles Bill [HL]

Lord Mawson Excerpts

Friday 19th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mawson]

My Lords, I support the Private Member’s Bill of the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, because he has highlighted an important issue that has concerned me for some years. It is my view that a local context often reflects the wider world in which we live: the micro is the way into the macro. Small acts can tell us a great deal about emerging social trends. In my opinion, the UK’s litter problem is just one of many national signs that illustrate the disconnection between political PR-speak and the reality on the ground.

When I first arrived in east London 30 years ago, in the middle of a rundown housing estate, I was greeted by an urban environment full of discarded litter: everywhere you looked there was rubbish. It was the canary in the cage singing its song and warning anyone who had ears of much bigger social issues. A dependency culture was being generated that was destroying any sense of personal responsibility or ownership of the problems that stared us in the face. The state ran 97% of everything but in fact no one was responsible for anything—a social and environmental disaster.

Getting a hold of our patch of east London involved the weekly practical task of picking up the rubbish dumped on the street outside and within the curtilage of our church buildings. I was determined that our bit of turf would look clean and tidy, and send out a clear message that we existed and were intent on taking some personal responsibility for our local environment. Actually, the mornings that I spent clearing up the rubbish turned out to be an important opportunity through which, as a young clergyman, I could engage with members of the local community. This simple interface with residents led to some crucial conversations and the development of important relationships with the neighbours. Litter was a radar; others noticed that one piece of terra firma had improved and started to join in tidying up the area. Today, the Bromley by Bow Centre owns and runs a three-acre site. Visitors often comment how beautiful and inspiring the park and gardens are. Free of litter, they lift the human spirit and breathe life into the local community.

Our rubbish problem is not confined to east London or inner-city areas. Litter is fast becoming the most noticeable feature of the conservation area in the Cotswolds where both the Prime Minister and I have houses. I was asked 12 years ago by the then sub-dean of Westminster Abbey to take responsibility for Stanton Guildhouse in the Cotswolds, a conference facility influenced by the arts and craft movement and situated in one of the most beautiful villages in England. Here, I must declare an interest. I therefore spend a great deal of time travelling between my house in Hackney and our family cottage in the Cotswolds. On a winter’s day, when the grass is short and the leaves are not on the trees, the A40 west of Oxford, near Witney, is framed by rubbish hanging from these trees and large pieces of litter clearly ejected from cars lie every few metres. I recently spent an afternoon walking a few miles down one of the country lanes off the main road near to the Prime Minister’s home. These quiet side roads are nearly as bad as the A40. Every 20 feet, I discovered in the grass verges a piece of litter clearly thrown from passing cars. This road is situated within the constituency of our Prime Minister, who is a self-proclaimed environmentalist; a tree is the emblem of his party.

None of the three main party leaders is getting a grip on litter. Rubbish scars their constituencies. Keep Britain Tidy estimates that around 33 million tonnes of litter are collected from Britain’s roads every year and that local authorities spend £1 billion each year picking it up. The social and environmental costs take that figure even higher, as do the costs to business and tourism. This is a serious problem; socially, culturally and economically. We need an urgent culture change if we are to properly address this matter, as other noble Lords have said. I have submitted two Questions about the A40 litter problem in the House in recent years. The responses I received were not encouraging. The last Minister who spoke on this subject in your Lordships’ House told us that research was being conducted but I have yet to see any action in response to that research.

I decided to take personal action and follow up the matter with the local council responsible for collecting litter along the A40. A senior official there provided me with some real insight as to why litter is increasing and not decreasing. He told me that the EPA—the Environmental Protection Act 1990, as amended in 2003—gave authorities many additional powers to deal with all elements of littering. A series of performance indicators were set which basically measured councils on how they responded to the problems. In particular, litter, graffiti, fly tipping and detritus were all measured. Councils that achieved high standards of cleanliness were given incentive funding. This performance indicator showed who was doing what on the ground and was, in the official’s opinion, “one of the most important indicators around at the time”. The significance of this indicator was recognised when it became a national indicator and data was collected three times a year through a simple system of measurement. However, the Government have in recent years removed this indicator. The obligation to act no longer exists.

I appreciate the desire of this Government to remove unnecessary red tape. I understand that some indicators are ineffective and resource hungry but we should be careful that in cutting bureaucracy we do not overburden those who we are trying to enable. Individuals such as the official I spoke to, who are trying to take personal responsibility and play an active role in society, are feeling cut loose by government. This official, responsible for litter collection, now has no way of challenging colleagues and other councils on current standards because many councils are managing litter collection information in different ways, so there is no clear way to measure and compare their effectiveness.

The Keep Britain Tidy campaign, whose meetings I attend in your Lordships’ House, likewise tells me that despite promising action on preventing litter in the coalition agreement, the Government have stepped away from this agenda. Whitehall seems to be leaving the problem to cash-strapped local authorities and other land managers to deal with. In a recent survey, nearly nine in every 10 local land managers across England, 87% of them, do not think that the coalition Government have achieved their commitment to reduce litter; 72% of the public agreed that the Government should do more.

Small actions such as those proposed in the Bill of the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, could, importantly, enable communities to take control of their litter problem. This Bill points the finger of responsibility to a named and known person: the registered keeper of the vehicle. People used to laugh at Mrs Thatcher roaming across St James’s Park picking up litter with a specially designed stick, but she knew the importance of personal responsibility. If our political leaders want to be seen as credible, they need the ability to deliver on small practical matters that count for the general public. The noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, is offering them an opportunity today to prove themselves.

Clearly, given that 62% of people in England drop litter, government is not solely to blame. However, political leaders should lead and government should govern. I fear the Minister is going to tell us that the approach that the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, proposes does not work and that it has been tried in two London boroughs but there is an insurmountable problem. Litter is an issue that is both divisive and decisive; you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Let us be part of the solution and either back this Bill or hear from the Minister what practical solution will instead be introduced.

The second argument that I fear the Minister will make is that there has always been rubbish on our streets and that we are in a better situation nationally than other parts of Europe. This argument will not do either. We should see this problem in the round. Not only is it costing the public purse dearly to pick up 33 million tonnes of rubbish each year but the consequential effects are enormous; highways have to be closed and numerous health and safety policies complied with as litter pickers are put at risk.

Of far more concern is the social impact of litter. It is one of the first signs of social decay. Keep Britain Tidy’s motto is,

“caring for the environment is the first step to a better society”.

Respect for the planet begins with the respect we hold for our neighbourhoods. It is a sign that you care about the world that our children will inherit. It is my view that human beings are the environments we live, work, and play within. Our environmental credentials will be measured by our actions. The actions we take in the environment around us define who we are and who we will become. Next time we ride out west through the Prime Minister’s constituency, I hope that his environmental credentials will be there for all to see, even to the unassuming walker who is looking at the verges.