Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Debate between Lord Markham and Baroness Merron

Committee stage
Friday 6th February 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Building on from that, that is correct: there are two different approaches here. There are those among us who believe that choice should come first, and within that choice there should obviously be protections and safeguards. Then there are those people who have equally very firm beliefs that the restrictions should be in place first as protections. To summarise, a lot of the amendments in this group are about having certain illnesses and certain groups, such as disabled groups, that should be excluded from the Bill, and that you should be allowed to have this only if you have unbearable pain or suffering, or if there is no chance of treatments to extend life.

I will bring two points in here. Public opinion is overwhelmingly in favour of choice, at 70% in all the different opinion polls. I include disabled groups in that: they show that 70% of disabled people are in favour of it. Then, there are the personal experiences of people who are terminally ill: first, they do not want to die. They would be delighted if there were treatments that would extend their lives beyond six months, or for much longer. But, for them, getting the opportunity to have a death of their choosing is a great comfort and insurance. It does not mean that they are going to rush out and take it as soon as they have it. In a lot of cases—about 30% in other countries—they will not use it at all.

However, the fact is, those people want it to be there, like an insurance policy, so that if, towards the end of their life, they really do have unbearable suffering, however they define it—which might be pain, a loss of dignity, a feeling that they really do not want to go on—then they can have that choice and reason for wanting to do it, whatever their choice is. That is the important thing that we are trying to ensure. Yes, there will be protections, but giving people the ability and autonomy to have the comfort and the choice of being able to die in the way they wish is the most fundamental right of all.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Baroness Merron) (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful for the contributions on eligibility and definition of terminal illness. Once again, I will keep detailed comments limited to amendments on which the Government have major legal, technical or operational workability concerns.

First, I will give a reassurance to your Lordships’ House in response to the observations of the noble Lord, Lord Harper, and the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, about the modern service framework on palliative care and end-of-life care. We acknowledge that there has been a drafting error, which the noble Lord and the noble Baroness picked up on. The drafting error is in the national cancer plan. I reassure your Lordships’ House that, as has been stated previously, the interim update will be published this spring and the full modern service framework will follow in the autumn. That issue was purely down to a drafting error.

I turn now to the amendments. Amendments 71, 77 and 79 were tabled by the noble Lady, Baroness Finlay, and Amendments 83A, 104 and 105 were tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Polak, my noble friend Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson. Noble Lords may wish to note the Government’s workability concern with this set of amendments. Key terms and concepts in the amendments are undefined, which may introduce uncertainty when determining who is eligible under the Bill and, particularly under Amendments 71, 77 and 79, what it means to slow a disease. There is a risk that unclear eligibility criteria could result in ambiguity for those applying the legislation, which may give rise to legal challenges to decisions made under it.

Amendment 105 could also give rise to legal challenge on the basis that excluding people with particular conditions from assisted dying may not be justified under Article 2 or Article 8 of the ECHR and may amount to unjustified discrimination under Article 14. Any differential treatment would need to be objectively and reasonably justified in order to comply with ECHR obligations.

Amendments 74 and 94, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Taylor of Holbeach, would exclude from the definition of “terminal illness” any individual whose condition can be meaningfully halted or controlled by available treatment. Clinically, it may be difficult to determine whether an illness or disease can be “meaningfully halted, or controlled” by treatment, and it is possible that an illness or disease could have a short halt before deterioration starts again. This will make it difficult for clinicians to decide whether a person is “terminally ill” and eligible for assisted dying and is likely to lead to challenges to decisions. These amendments may result in a person becoming ineligible, irrespective of whether they choose to take the available treatment.

Amendment 75, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, would amend the definition of “terminally ill” by removing the test of death being reasonably expected in six months, and replacing it with a requirement that the rate of progress of the disease, with treatment in line with NICE guidelines, indicates that death can be expected within six months. Introducing the concept of treatment in accordance with NICE guidelines may create difficulties, as the amendment would require clinicians to assess the patient’s prognosis as if they were treated in accordance with NICE guidelines. This may result in a person becoming ineligible, irrespective of whether they chose to have treatment in accordance with NICE guidelines. This amendment therefore requires clinicians to make a judgment on a potentially hypothetical basis.

Amendment 80, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Lawlor, would provide that a person is “terminally ill” where their death has an 80% likelihood of occurring within six months, according to the written opinion of two specialist, consultant-level hospital doctors. These doctors must be knowledgeable about and have experience of treating patients with the progressive illness in question. This amendment would create significant operational workability concerns. It would require the clinician making a determination about the person’s prognosis to meet a high threshold of certainty. The criteria could be especially difficult to meet for a person who has a rare progressive illness or disease, about which there may not be widespread clinical knowledge or experience.

Amendment 82, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Polak, would require two consultants to provide a view on an individual’s life expectancy, and for them to determine that their death can be “highly probable” within six months, rather than the current drafting of, can be “reasonably expected”. Several terms are not defined in the amendment and are likely to lead to ambiguity, including operational issues, around which doctors are to assess life expectancy and to what standard.

Supply of Blood and Blood Products

Debate between Lord Markham and Baroness Merron

Wednesday 3rd December 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

The noble Lord gives a good example—sometimes we need other people to sort us out to give blood—but the main point he makes is absolutely right: we need to speak to people through our campaigns. Each donation can save up to three lives. We need to tell people the effect of what they are doing too, and I am glad that we are taking innovative steps to raise awareness, including advertising on London buses.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the Minister for letting me get in just in time. I am interested in plasma. As many noble Lords will be aware, we have been importing 100% of our plasma needs ever since mad cow disease, so it is an area in which we are quite vulnerable and I know the blood services are trying to correct that. Can the Minister give us an update on where we are on that?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

We are making considerable progress in diversifying where plasma comes from. We are also making good progress in demand management and ensuring that there is no waste in blood products, which will also greatly assist us. I shall be pleased to write to the noble Lord with a full description of the advances that we are making; it is an exciting time in that respect.

Primary and Community Care

Debate between Lord Markham and Baroness Merron

Thursday 5th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Building on a point made by the noble Lord, Lord Hacking, and others, there are many examples where the ideal place to do a diagnostic test is in a primary care setting. Urinary tract infections are a typical example of that, because you can solve it quickly in that setting, avoiding future hospital visits and much pain and suffering. However, that means taking budgets away from secondary care settings and giving them to primary care GPs, pharmacists, et cetera. Are the Government prepared to do that to see these benefits arise?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

We are constantly reviewing how best to support where we need to go. In this case, it is about getting tests done closer to home. The noble Lord is right that, for a number of people, the GP practice is a good place to do that, but not in all cases. What matters is doing what is appropriate. We announced an £889 million uplift for general practice in 2025-26, which is the largest uplift to GP funding since the beginning of the five-year framework in 2019, and we have also agreed a new GP contract. The noble Lord will be aware that we recently announced over £1 million to help the quality of the primary care estate, to ensure that we can provide some 11 million further appointments this year. While I accept that this issue is about configuration, I assure the noble Lord of our support for GPs.

Dementia and Alzheimer’s Treatments

Debate between Lord Markham and Baroness Merron

Thursday 1st May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I am glad that I will be joining my noble friend in signing up as a volunteer. Certainly, the Lancet commission of last year said that some 45% of dementia cases are estimated to be preventable or delayable. That report is going to inform our actions as we look to the future. Perhaps it is helpful to clarify to your Lordships’ House—I am sure that many of us have experience of this—that the NHS health check for adults in England aged 45 to 74 is designed to do exactly as my noble friend says and identify early signs of various conditions which are contributory factors.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

A lot of the challenges in testing the efficacy of some medicines lie in measuring the progression of the disease. That is mainly done verbally and, as we all know, people have good days and other not-so-good days, so measuring the progression and impact of the treatment is hard. As the Minister will be aware, things such as retina scans are showing quite promising measurements in terms of the onset and progression. What are we doing in research in that area?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I will be pleased to write to the noble Lord on that specific point, but it might be helpful if I say on the point raised earlier by the noble Lord, Lord Kamall, that investment in discovery science by the UK Dementia Research Institute, for example, included the recently announced Shingrix study in partnership with GSK and Health Data Research UK, and we are also working via the Dementia Translational Research Collaboration. I am sure that the noble Lord will be aware of the NIHR dementia trials network, which offers people with dementia the opportunity to take part in early clinical trials irrespective of where they live. The summary of all this is that we have some way to go, but we have made considerable progress in investment and plans for the future. I will take into account the noble Lord’s point.

NHS England Update

Debate between Lord Markham and Baroness Merron

Wednesday 19th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My noble friend will know—as I am sure the right reverend Prelate knows—that the Chief Nursing Officer has always played a role in advising Ministers; that the case was long before the establishment of NHS England and will continue long afterwards. The chief executive, Sir James, has announced his new transformation team, and that includes NHS England’s Chief Nursing Officer.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As a former Health Minister, I too welcome this move, but the devil is in the detail. The point made about the NHS regions is completely right: that is another layer which will stop hospitals being freed up in the way the Secretary of State said he wants to happen. There is the question of whether lots of merged entities will be demerged again. As we all know, it is the uncertainty which hits productivity in the meantime, when people are naturally worried about their jobs.

I would really like to press the Minister on when we will see the detail behind the plan. When will it be produced, and when can we give the staff the information they need, so they know their position? Until that happens, the uncertainty will, unfortunately, hinder productivity and stop the changes we all want to see happening.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I understand that point and the noble Lord’s wish for dates, which I am not able to give him, as I am sure he will appreciate. These reforms are not about front-line staff losing their jobs; we are talking about people employed directly by the department and the NHS. The noble Lord referred to the Secretary of State, and I would add that other arm’s-length bodies also need to be leaner than they are today.

I understand the problem, and we are going to work very closely with staff organisations, but it is not a neutral situation. Staff are suffering from box-ticking, duplication and red tape, which prevents them doing their job properly. Their morale is not good in this case—in any case. We do not want to add to that, but we do want to give them hope for the future.

Mental Health Treatment: Waiting Times

Debate between Lord Markham and Baroness Merron

Monday 3rd February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I agree with my noble friend’s suggestions. Of course it is a team that provides the mental health support that is necessary, but I am particularly pleased that we are working to deliver a mental health professional in every school. That is a starting point, not necessarily the end point, so my noble friend makes some very helpful suggestions.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I appreciate from my own time as Health Minister how difficult it is to meet the expanding demand, so I wonder if we are still looking at other methods to expand capacity, particularly digitally, both in terms of early diagnosis but also some of the digital mental health treatments which are quite impressive?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I am glad for the understanding of the noble Lord. NHS England is encouraging the local use of digital tools, for example digitally enabled therapies, and it is an extremely helpful way also of managing waiting lists so people are not just left waiting but they are held and supported, often through digital means.

Government Policy on Health

Debate between Lord Markham and Baroness Merron

Tuesday 10th September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I cannot answer that, I am afraid. I would be very happy to look at it for the noble Baroness.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Although I understand completely the role of advisers—obviously Alan Milburn is a very reputable adviser—where is the line? My concern is that, when an adviser has a pass, has been in meetings without Ministers present and has perhaps directed civil servants in those meetings, a line has perhaps been crossed. I would welcome assurances from the Minister that this has not occurred and that there have not been any meetings where Alan Milburn has been there without Ministers—in effect, directing policy with no formal role.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

The right honourable Alan Milburn has not been directing policy; he also has no pass. I hope that is helpful to the noble Lord.