Religious Hate Crime

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass Excerpts

Wednesday 27th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is quite right to point out what is being done. He will be aware from his own previous profession that the Government are working with the police and with communities to ensure that any kind of religious hate is formally recorded and that people are educated that they should report hate crime. From April this year, as the noble Lord will be aware, the Government will ensure that anti-Muslim hatred, along with other religious hate crime, is formally recorded by every police force across England and Wales.

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass (Ind UU)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that we have already had a case in Northern Ireland, where a Christian Minister was literally persecuted for months before eventually being brought before our courts, tried and acquitted? Do we still have British law in Northern Ireland, or is that now being adjusted to suit sectarian interests in my part of the United Kingdom?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I, for one, am very proud of our justice system across the United Kingdom. Despite every challenge and diversity, there is great faith in our justice system. As we have seen previously, our justice system even stands up for those who seek to divide us or promote hate in our society.

Police: Funding Formula

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass Excerpts

Tuesday 20th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass (Ind UU)]

My Lords, is it not a fact that we are looking at this problem on a very local basis? Are the Government aware of the Islamic doctrine of “hijra”, which is intended to undermine democracies in the United Kingdom and Europe? What are we doing in terms of our new funding formula to underline any potential for the strategy to deal with that external threat?

[Lord Bates]

The first thing that we are doing is that we are continuing to protect the funding which is given to the police for their counterterrorism activities. In fact, we increased it by a further £15 million. We are also bringing forward measures contained in the counterextremism legislation to tackle that at source.

Police and Crime Commissioners

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass Excerpts

Wednesday 11th June 2014 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to assess formally the impact and benefit of police commissioners; and whether they intend to publish a report.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach) (Con)]

My Lords, the best assessment of the impact and benefit of police and crime commissioners will be the one made by voters when PCCs are up for re-election in 2016. The Home Affairs Select Committee recently published its report Police and Crime Commissioners: Progress to Date. From the evidence gathered, the committee concluded that PCCs provide greater clarity of leadership and are increasingly recognised by the public as accountable for the strategic direction they provide.

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass (Non-Afl)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, but is the problem not that we have, at immense cost to the public purse, minders who mind minders who are minding more minders? Obviously, we have the unwanted police and crime commissioners elected by less than 20% of voters and supposed to be super-minders. Then there are police authorities, the IPCC, ACPO and the affluent Police Federation all making demands on chief constables and invariably inhibiting their command and control authority and responsibilities. How do we expect such a system to function effectively?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, the Government’s police reforms are working. Crime is down 10% since 2010. We put operational responsibility where it belongs: with the police. We have introduced democratic accountability through the PCCs. The Home Affairs Select Committee report that I referred to found that PCCs’ costs represent the same proportion of the total spending—0.6%—as was spent on the previous system of police authorities.

Police: Performance Indicator Management

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass Excerpts

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for raising an issue that, however one dresses it up, amounts to a system that encourages carelessness, misrepresentation and possibly even corruption among today’s police service. I come here with more than 50 years of policing experience. I first donned a police uniform when I left college in 1958 and I served until 1965. Then, as a commissioned Army officer from 1970 for almost 12 years I liaised daily with the RUC and, when I came to Parliament, I acted as its parliamentary adviser. My natural instinct is pro-police.

I spoke during the previous debate about how arm’s length government has now become, and how remote and ineffective are the multiple layers of delegated accountability so that most of us no longer believe that the Home Office is in control. Certainly the elected commissioner aberration, rather than representing better management, is but another waste of resources, as the electorate have made very clear.

I want to give a practical example of how command responsibility has been eroded to a point where accountability has become little more than a paper exercise and, bluntly, of how this is leading to carelessness, mistakes and, ultimately, corruption. I am not even talking about a Hillsborough or a Savile. I want to talk about a conman called Mark Heslehurst, who has been able to use the Cleveland Police for nigh on a year in order to persecute a local councillor, Councillor Joan McTigue, because she, although initially sympathetic to his story that his son has been abducted to Cambodia, eventually saw through his intrigue and challenged his attempts to extract money from a sympathetic community.

Quite independently of Councillor McTigue, I met Heslehurst, made a few simple inquiries and came to a similar conclusion. I do not have time today to go into his cover story in detail. My complaint is that Cleveland Police have, on behalf of Heslehurst, exclusively concentrated their inquiries to the point of harassing a local councillor, a lady who worked in education and is now semi-retired. Yet Heslehurst, using various aliases—for example, Ian Blagg, who by coincidence tweets with exactly the same grammatical and punctuation errors as Heslehurst—is allowed free rein to publish outrageous claims against this lady and against me.

Community compassion has enabled Heslehurst to travel to the United States and to stand for the Middlesbrough parliamentary seat after the death of our late friend, Stuart Bell, an individual who, like Councillor McTigue and me, was badmouthed by Heslehurst because he was too astute to fall for this conman. Enough about Heslehurst—I am running out of time, but I can provide the Minister with literally reams of evidential material.

What I must ask is why Cleveland’s Sergeant Copley seems to concentrate only on the actions of Councillor McTigue, to the extent that he has seized and held this lady’s computer for the past four months, but has found no reason to do likewise with Heslehurst’s, despite the fact that she and I are blackguarded on an almost daily basis. When I spoke about this to Inspector Wrintmore, he told me that the matter was awaiting a decision from the north-east Crown Prosecutor’s office and that it had asked for more information. However, that is not true. Let me read from two letters that I received from the CPS. On 19 February the deputy CCP wrote to me saying:

“I confirm that the CPS has now given the police early investigative advice … I appreciate your concern regarding the impact of the case on Cllr McTigue … the matter now rests with Cleveland Police”.

Just a few days ago, on 14 March, he wrote again, saying:

“As the only offences under consideration are triable in the magistrates’ courts, the decision as to whether someone should be charged falls to the police”.

After months of aggravation, this was very useful in terms of police statistics but of absolutely no public benefit.

If I had time, I could tell a similar story about an 83 year-old lady in the North Yorkshire Police area, where police have conspired to ensure that she is kept out of her home and where those who have tried to help her, particularly a Tim Hicks, have been threatened with arrest, only to find out when he came on an errand from Luxembourg to face that charge that it was merely an intimidating bluff.

In conclusion, I had similar personal experiences with the Met and the PSNI when I was threatened with arrest due to totally unsubstantiated complaints of assault. Do I look like I would assault anyone? I shall leave that. Once in a Committee Room here, it was alleged that I assaulted someone and that there were more than 45 witnesses, but not one turned up. It also happened once after I gently reprimanded a road hog. That is two more non-offences solved. I rest my case.

Crime and Courts Bill [HL]

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass Excerpts

Wednesday 12th December 2012 Lords Chamber

The Government have a responsibility to protect the public so that communities and law-abiding citizens can live in peace and security. The police must have the powers they need to meet this responsibility. We have considered this matter—

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I am sorry, but I am not prepared to give way. I want the House to hear the argument that has gone through the Government.

We have considered this matter at great length—for too long, as the noble Baroness has suggested—and we have reached the firm view that Section 5 should not be reformed. There is insufficient evidence that the removal of the word “insulting” would be beneficial overall. I regret that this decision will not be welcomed by everyone, but I assure the House that it has been given careful consideration. I regret to say that should the noble Lord, Lord Dear, seek to test the opinion of the House, I will urge noble Lords—

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

The letter is available, no doubt, from the noble Lord, Lord Dear, in full. I suggest that noble Lords read the full text of the letter, not just selective quotations.

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

In so far as I understand the term “abusive”—most noble Lords will understand that term—can the Minister define in legal terms the word “insulting”? I have not heard in anything that he said tonight a proper definition of “insulting”. I have heard it defined by the Opposition Front Bench. I shall leave my question at that. Can the Minister define “insulting”?

[Lord Dear]

My Lords, I shall respond to one thing. Lest there should be any doubt that I might have been concealing something in the letter from Keir Starmer QC, the DPP, having safely said that you can take “insulting” out of the section, in the last line he says:

“However, I also appreciate there are other policy considerations involved”.

I am bemused. I think that he probably knew something that I did not: that the Government are confused.

I hope that noble Lords on both Front Benches will allow me to say that I am totally confused by their attitude. We have a picture on the one hand that everything is well, despite the fact that the current DPP, the ex-DPP and the ex-Lord Chancellor—a plethora of legal minds in this House—have said that “insulting” can and should come out. The law is not leaving a hole in its place; “abusive” will cover it. There is the safety net of Section 4A, what is left of Section 5 and other legislation. I am deeply disappointed. I had hoped that the Government would support this, with the wide-ranging, voluminous support that there is on all sides of the House, from people who have much better experience than me.

The signals that have been sent tonight—indeed, that have been sent to all of us in the preceding few days—show that many noble Lords have put themselves about very considerably to hear this debate, travelling from the far corners of this country; I do not use those words lightly. We have waited far too long for this. Although I regret to have to say so, I beg leave to test the opinion of the House.

Extradition

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass Excerpts

Tuesday 16th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I am not sure whether the noble Lord was in the Government or the Opposition when the then Government introduced this provision within our statute law. It provides us with an ideal opportunity to work alongside our European partners and with the Commission to seek a change in the European arrest warrant, which we are not alone in seeing as very useful and important but none the less deficient. The procedure for doing that is to give notice that you intend to withdraw and then to seek to reapply on the terms of the revised arrangements. That is perfectly straightforward. It was discussed yesterday after the Statement repeated by my noble friend Lord McNally, and I do not see any difficulty whatever. I am surprised that the noble Lord makes the point that he does.

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for having repeated the Statement in this House. He will recall the almost innumerable times that I have raised the issue about Gary McKinnon. Despite the fact that we have had a good outcome today, it is quite concerning that it has taken 10 years to get to this stage; and the best that we can get now that we have decided we are not going to extradite him is that at some undefined stage in the future this matter may come before our courts. What does that mean? Is that going to be another 10 years for this young man who suffers from Asperger’s syndrome, the autism spectrum disorder? I chaired an independent review of autism services in Northern Ireland, and I know the strain with which not just the sufferers of the autism syndrome but their families have to live. I implore the Minister to ensure that on top of this Statement this House gets an early indication of the final outcome.

Finally, I note that in line with the Baker review, the Home Secretary’s involvement in extradition cases should be reduced. On a general principle, this suggests to me that we are moving more and more towards government by caucus. There are some 600 Back-Benchers in the other House and some 800 noble Lords in this House. We want to have direct access to government, not access by proxy to some delegated power that we cannot identify.

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

The noble Lord will know that separation of powers is an important part of our constitution. The Home Secretary is saying that this particular power belongs more properly in the judicial process. I think the sentiment around the House suggests that she has that issue right. On the question of Mr McKinnon and what happens to him now, he will be able to apply for release from his bail conditions but it will be for the Director of Public Prosecutions to decide whether he should be tried in the UK. That is not a matter for government.

Police: Misconduct and Corruption

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass Excerpts

Tuesday 15th May 2012 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government when it is appropriate for the Home Office to intervene directly in matters of police discipline and incidents of police corruption, and whether current delegated arrangements are proving adequate.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Henley)]

My Lords, the police are expected to maintain the highest standards of professional behaviour at all times. Where there are allegations of misconduct or corruption, the most serious cases are investigated by the Independent Police Complaints Commission. As the name suggests, the IPCC is independent of the Government and the police to ensure that investigations are impartial. The Government do not intervene in any individual cases. The Government consider that these arrangements are adequate.

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords, does it not all boil down to the fact that the coalition Government have no real concept of hands-on responsibility or of timely decision-making and believe that by delegation they can wash their hands of responsibility? Are the Gary McKinnon and widow Hofschroer cases, respectively awaiting justice for 10 years and three years, not examples of a Government who could not care less?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a number of points. First, I make it clear that this is not just a matter for the coalition Government; it is a matter that goes back to the 2002 Act which brought in the IPCC. I think all sides of this House agree that there should be an Independent Police Complaints Commission and that it should be independent. It can be independent of government only if government cannot intervene. It would be quite wrong for my right honourable friend the Home Secretary to intervene in individual cases. It would surely undermine the IPCC’s independence if she tried to second-guess its decisions. The noble Lord went on to mention two cases. Gary McKinnon has nothing to do with any allegations of police corruption because his case is purely about extradition. The case of the Hofschroer family is, as the noble Lord knows, a matter that has gone to the IPCC. It is a matter for it to produce its decision and if those involved in that case do not like that decision, they can then take the appropriate action in the courts.

Queen’s Speech

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass Excerpts

Tuesday 15th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords, in so far as I intend to pursue in more detail the issue that I raised earlier at Oral Questions, I want to make it clear that I am not anti-police. Concurrently with my first employment as a schoolmaster, I became a special constable and served for seven years. Later, as an Army officer, I had responsibility for joint planning and liaison with the police, and that during our troubled times in Northern Ireland. While I was an MP, I was parliamentary adviser to the RUC. I feel no need, however, to make similar ameliorating comments about my attitude to our virtually invisible and ineffective Home Office.

At the beginning of a new parliamentary year—I have seen 29 come and go here—one still waits with bated breath for some sort of signal that next year is going to be better. Such an expectation is difficult to sustain when one reads through the coalition’s programme for business in 2012, particularly in relation to creating a fairer society. Everything I read there confirms my impression of those exceedingly well educated folk who occupy the Front Benches in another place but who seldom appear to have rubbed shoulders with reality. Ideas hatched in some intellectually gifted corner of the Palace of Westminster float through a maze of implementation levels that are ill defined, largely disconnected and often wholly inefficient.

It is some years since the noble Lord, Lord Reid, described the Home Office as not fit for purpose, yet we continue without respite to find it delegating responsibilities in a way that it seems to consider absolves it from any real decision-making role. Just try, as I have, to discover why a police constabulary appears to be inefficient or corrupt and you will get the answer that I got last November when I was told by the Home Office that it had not held “aggregate data” on police since 2004. Why not?

One may be advised to speak to the Independent Police Complaints Commission. I have, only to be told that the fairly obvious injustice that concerns me was not within its bailiwick because my complaint overlapped with social services. I belatedly referred the issue to the Justice Department, but it could not intervene. I am referring to a case where a lady in her 80s was cheated out of her home. The Minister knows it well and over the past three years the Home Office has received hundreds—yes, hundreds—of communications through me about the matter. Successive Secretaries of State have been so concerned that none would meet me, despite the fact that Interpol was activated to pursue this elderly lady all the way to her son’s home in Austria. Does anyone in authority care that social services and police in North Yorkshire have conspired in the persecution of Mrs Hofschroer and her son? Are details of dismissals, forced retirements and other shady and costly measures pertaining to North Yorkshire Police available to legislators in Parliament? No. Basic justice is distorted by the system, but I can see nothing to address this major issue in the Government’s plans.

Not dissimilar, in terms of Home Office incompetence, is the well known case of Gary McKinnon, a once young man with autism who hacked the Pentagon’s computers and whom the United States wants to extradite, potentially to imprison for the rest of his life in its prison system, where there are, conservatively, 60,000 rapes per year. His defence has cost his family their home. For over 10 years Gary, now 45 years old, has been left in limbo, and yet the Home Office happily, if somewhat inefficiently, spends millions accommodating the legal rights of Abu Qatada. Is that how we expect the Home Office and Justice to deal with disability—with cruel indecision, without compassion and with detached unaccountability? I think not, so surely it is about time we sought to replace our failing nanny state with a fair and just one.

Truly, the right hand at the Dispatch Box appears not to know and not to care what the left hand is doing. Is it not time that the Government recognised that principled strategic command is a prerequisite for effective delegation? One of the follies pertaining to and emanating from latter-day political correctness is that government and justice should not impinge on each other. That is why we foolishly established the introverted and expensive Supreme Court, effectively a third unaccountable legislature with which society barely identifies. Law can be effective only when it relates to what society as a whole is prepared to accept and support. Society’s temper is reflected through those elected to another place and through this related scrutinising Chamber. The day we sought to wash government’s hands of responsibility, and in so far as we continue to divorce the law from government, we deny society the access and safeguards that democracy is intended to guarantee.

Counterterrorism Review

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords—

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords—

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Howard of Lympne]

My Lords—

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords, can I thank—

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we have not yet had a Conservative Back-Bench question.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords—

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords, can I thank the Minister—

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, if we are quick we can get one more round in. I suggest Cross Bench, Liberal Democrat, Labour.

[Lord Blair of Boughton]

My Lords—

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords, I suggest to the Minister—

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I suggest that we hear from the former Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police.

Extradition: Gary McKinnon

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2010 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their current position regarding the request for the extradition of Gary McKinnon.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Neville-Jones)]

My Lords, a judicial review of a decision by the previous Home Secretary to uphold an order for Mr McKinnon’s extradition stands adjourned. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary is reviewing the case against the sole legal test, which is whether, given Mr McKinnon’s medical condition, extradition would breach his human rights. My right honourable friend has sought Mr McKinnon’s consent to a psychiatric assessment by clinicians recommended by the Chief Medical Officer. A response is awaited from his solicitors.

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

I declare an interest in so far as I chaired the independent review of autism services in Northern Ireland and currently chair the Northern Ireland autism regional reference group. I am grateful to the Minister for her Answer, but does she accept that inadequate recognition and the total lack of appropriate interventions for those with an autistic condition, which was first identified and defined by Kanner in 1943, have deprived someone in Gary McKinnon’s age group of his human rights and that to extradite him would exacerbate the social neglect that he has suffered? Do we not have a more compelling moral responsibility in this instance than a legal one?

[Baroness Neville-Jones]

Medical science has advanced through the ages, and we have a better understanding of some of these conditions. With regard to Mr McKinnon’s case, it is of course precisely the issue of the state of his medical condition and whether the extradition would breach his human rights that is at issue at the moment. We hope that he will be willing to undertake an examination, with agreed clinicians.