European Union (Referendum) Bill

Debate between Lord Mackay of Clashfern and Lord Hurd of Westwell

Friday 24th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern]

I thought it was the courtesy of this House to give the signatories to an amendment the right to speak first after it has been moved. Sadly, earlier in the debate, that system seemed to have been departed from, but I did not come forward quite as early as I might have done on that ground. Anyway, I am here now.

The ordinary, straightforward way to kill this Bill would be to refuse it a Second Reading in this House. But, having granted it a Second Reading, if the Bill is instead killed by the use of a procedure that is intended to improve it, that is a very powerful point that will affect the political debate on this issue until the next general election.

[Lord Hurd of Westwell (Con)]

My Lords, I am following my noble and learned friend’s argument with care. I do not understand, however, quite how those of us who are in favour of Britain remaining in the European Union might be damaged by the acceptance of something on the lines of the amendment. I cannot see why that would be the result of accepting the amendments before us, which simply give guidance and lay down how this House, at this time—the end of January—should give our view on how such a referendum could be phrased. I cannot see how the consequence that my noble and learned friend fears could derive from accepting something like this amendment.

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern]

That fear arises because of what we have been told by the Constitution Committee of this House: that if the Bill is amended it will probably not reach the statute book. That is a very important issue for me. I am sorry about it and, as the noble Lord, Lord Anderson of Swansea, said, it is not our fault; we did not take all this time to consider the Bill but it came to us at the beginning of December and we are trying to get on with it as quickly as possible. I am sorry to have spoken for so long.