Universities

Lord Lucas Excerpts

Thursday 14th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lucas (Con)]

My Lords, this is a most valuable report, although I wish it had been a mite more self-critical. I would have liked to have seen more of an interest taken in the value of undergraduate degrees. Is the content of our degree courses what is needed now in both breadth of subject and connections? I do not think it would do any harm for a physicist like me, who would probably these days end up in the depths of the AI revolution creating something which would have a big effect on society, to have at least a passing acquaintance with mediaeval English drama, and therefore perhaps to understand people a bit better.

It is also important that the content of courses is reviewed in the context of the curriculum review that is taking place in schools, so that all that is being taught to children is shaped not by the wishes of some professors but much more by the needs of our children. I very much support the whole speech from the noble Lord, Lord Rees of Ludlow, but particularly his going on about what we are teaching our students. This morning, I attended an All-Party Parliamentary University Group meeting on the Government’s plans for skills, and it was notable that there was nobody there from the Russell group. I think that is a great mistake, but it rather indicates a style of thinking.

We need to question whether it is any longer appropriate to have isolated arts and creative arts schools. I declare an interest as having a child at one of them. The needs of children are so much wider than what is taught there. They need an acquaintanceship with the whole of the humanities and a good deal of business if they are to succeed in a difficult and competitive world. These isolated institutions, however grand, just do not provide it.

We need to ask universities to be a great deal more open and honest with prospective students about what their courses will actually lead to. What do students go on to do by way of careers? What do they think of the courses they have taken when they look back on them? It is hard to find anything approaching that sort of information. I think it is untruthful and unworthy of universities that they continue down this road. It is just marketing; it is not taking the interests of our children into account. In that context, I urge them to take seriously the calls for universities to have a duty of care for our children.

Reference has been made to the value of overseas students. Yes, but I note how slow universities have been to sign up to the British Council’s Alumni UK, which would offer considerable additional incentives to students to come here, and a great deal of value to the country as well. I sense universities looking after their own parochial interests, rather than caring for the larger picture.

I would like to see much more openness about finances. Assertions that universities are short of money are not enough. They ought to share with the Government and with students the details of what the money is being spent on, so that somebody setting out on a course which will leave them with a very large student loan knows where that money is going.

If I can offer a small ray of hope, I think the Government are wrong to try to bear down on level 6 and level 7 apprenticeships. Rather than subsidising them, the Government should open them up to the student loan. These are the safest possible investments for the Student Loans Company: somebody who is being backed by an employer to take on a long course of education and be employed at the same time has a very high chance of success.

I end by picking up on something the noble Lord, Lord Patel, said about doctoral students. I am reminded of my first year working for a merchant bank in the City. We were approached by the National Coal Board for a very large loan to build a new coal mine. We had a long look at it, then we went back to the National Coal Board and said, “Yes, we will give you the money, but if you had run the mine differently and started extracting coal as soon as you’d sunk the first drift, you wouldn’t need a loan at all”. I declare an interest as having a child who is studying for a doctorate, but we ought to review whether the current system of not extracting any value out of a student for three years is the best way of financing a doctorate.