Winter Fuel Payment

Debate between Lord Livermore and Baroness Smith of Llanfaes

Tuesday 10th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

My Lords, £35,000 is broadly equivalent to average earnings. It means that 9 million pensioners will now benefit from this. That is roughly three-quarters of pensioners.

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)]

My Lords, last week the Intergenerational Foundation released a report that found that the public spending gap between children and pensioners has widened by 170%. That means that in 2023-24 pensioners received around £31,000, in comparison to children at £18,000. The winter fuel allowance has meant that there are fewer pensioners in poverty, and that is a good thing, but when we look at child poverty stats, they are almost double those of pensioners in poverty. Will His Majesty’s Government review abolishing the child benefit cap?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her question, and I absolutely share her commitment to tackle child poverty in this country. We have made initial steps with the free school meals policy that the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Education set out last week. I hope that the spending review will have more to say on that subject, and on the child poverty strategy published alongside the Budget.

Fiscal Rules

Debate between Lord Livermore and Baroness Smith of Llanfaes

Tuesday 29th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving me an opportunity to talk about the £22 billion black hole left to us by the previous Government. He has done that in the past and I continue to be grateful to him. The independent Office for Budget Responsibility said at the time of the July statement that it did not know about this black hole at the heart of our finances; it established an independent review into it which will report in due course. I think there will be plenty more information on the £22 billion black hole in tomorrow’s Budget for the noble Lord to peruse.

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)]

My Lords, changes to the fiscal rules are welcome, as our devolved Governments need a new fiscal settlement. The Barnett formula has no legal standing, and the convention can be changed by the Treasury. Are there any plans on the horizon to replace the Barnett formula? If so, would this be a needs-based formula to ensure that wealth is redistributed fairly?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am not aware that the Government have any such plans, but I hope that tomorrow’s Budget will include good news for Wales.