My Lords, I do not have the figures, but the noble Lord is correct. There is always natural wastage—amazingly, people do leave jobs voluntarily—and there are ways of leaving jobs other than through redundancy.
My Lords, does the Minister accept that because of the Government’s refusal to be more flexible on the capitalisation of redundancy costs, cuts in current spending are going to be deeper than they would otherwise have been? This will have a particular impact on grants to the voluntary sector and the prospects for the big society.
My Lords, we have made it clear that we expect the voluntary sector to be part and parcel of the future of local government. If local authorities do not wish to do that—although they will be put under great pressure to do so—they will cut voluntary sector grants, but in doing so they will be cutting off their nose to spite their face. Much good work is done by voluntary organisations. Under the Localism Bill, there will be a greater expectation that they will be able to take part in running and managing services.