Brexit: Road, Rail and Maritime Transport (EUC Report)
Lord Lexden Excerpts(3 years, 8 months ago)
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Lord Lansley (Con)
My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick, who asked a lot of interesting questions. I look forward to my noble friend the Minister’s response to some of them.
On her latter point about the impact of the internal market Bill, I am not an expert on this but it seems that we are all trying to reconcile the fact that there must not be a hard border between Great Britain and Northern Ireland or between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. We could try to reconcile that in the way that the European Union might do, in a legalistic way—that is, by saying that, if there is an absence of border checks between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, there must be border checks between the Province of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. That is a legalistic but misplaced view. But, equally, it is a misplaced view on our Government’s part to think that they can simply dispense with the requirement to know, and have some evidence of, whether goods that are leaving Great Britain for Northern Ireland are genuinely at risk of entering the single market elsewhere beyond Northern Ireland. We will have to deal with that issue and, no doubt, we will have many hours of debate on the internal market Bill to try to resolve it—but it has not been resolved in over a year, which is why the former Prime Minister, Theresa May, resorted to the backstop. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I thought that she did a rather good job of putting the backstop together. But there we are—it is too late now.
On the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, I note that the Irish Times published an article today reporting that the Irish Road Haulage Association is looking for a daily direct ferry link from the Republic of Ireland to Le Havre because it is so anxious about depending on access for its hauliers through Great Britain and across the channel links. I am sorry that it thinks that, and I am sorry that confidence in hauliers’ ability to come and go between Great Britain and the continent of Europe is so lacking. That is what we need to deliver.
Noble Lords talked about road issues; I will do so too. I am confident that I can focus on that issue knowing that the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, is to come next. He will say far more about rail transport issues and will do so far better than I possibly could.
As a former member of the EU Internal Market Sub-Committee, I want to say how much I appreciated the excellent chairmanship of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty. He did a fantastic job, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, as his successor before the committee was wound up and redistributed. The report we are debating was extremely useful at the time. I do not imagine that we would have thought a year ago that it would be as useful now—but I think that it probably is. Many of the questions derived from the report are exactly as relevant now as they were a year ago; it is just that there is now so little time now to deal with this matter. It must be dealt with rapidly.
I will not reiterate all the questions, but I want to add one or two points of my own. First, important as hauliers’ permits are, the number one issue is hauliers being able to move through borders speedily and with minimising the delay. We knew, and discovered during the course of our evidence-taking, that the cumulative impact of additional delays on the part of hauliers through the port of Dover, for example, would accumulate exponentially. Unfortunately, we are all beginning to discover what exponential trends look like, and they are potentially extremely damaging. The issue is not simply about permits or customs—it is about the smart freight system. That clearly was at the heart of the reason why the Road Haulage Association only very recently, after a meeting with the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, said that the Whitehall meeting was “a washout”. I think that it was about a lack of clarity about the delivery of a smart freight system.
May I make a further suggestion? It is difficult now to put in place systems that rely on information technologies at very short notice. But for a long time we should have been preparing a trusted trader scheme that would allow the people taking goods across to the continent to do so with much-simplified customs requirements. In particular, it would allow for those border requirements to be made before the hauliers arrive at the port, minimising the checks that need to be made at the port itself. That is what happens with the authorised economic operator scheme but, important as it is, that scheme is far too complex and costly for most small businesses to deal with. It is clear that a simplified version of the scheme should be put in place. The legislation is available: the relevant section on authorised economic operators in the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act allows different classes of authorised economic operator to be specified by Her Majesty’s Commissioners for Revenue. So, even now, such regulations could be put together and put in place before the end of the year.
Many noble Lords talked about the availability of permits, in the absence of the community licence scheme, following the completion of the implementation period. We know from evidence given to us that what was available under the European Conference of Ministers of Transport represented only 5% at best of transport needs. So far, there is nothing in what the Commission has published, including its notification to member states on 9 July this year, to indicate that it will make any substantial number of additional permits available. We must therefore be aware that this is not dependent on a Canada-style free trade agreement between us and the European Union since, by definition, Canada does not have any such agreement. It is a separate agreement. A suite of agreements will need to be reached between ourselves and the EU. We should not take the view that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed; we should be getting on and agreeing some things. In this context, although the mandates of the two sides clearly differed, compromise is of the essence. In this area, compromise in making additional permits available for UK hauliers, and for UK hauliers to understand the scale of the permits available to them, would make an enormous difference. The sooner that is done, the better.
I have one final point, on private motoring, in which I suppose I have an interest as, I guess, we all do in one form or another. We understood that international driving permits may, or may not, enable us to drive freely across Europe, depending on the relationship with member states. As others have done, can I ask my noble friend to tell us much more about what the department has done to arrive at bilateral agreements with member states? The Commission’s notification in July said that driving licences
“will no longer benefit from mutual recognition under Union law”
but
“will be regulated at Member State level.”
However, it referred only to member states that are contracting parties to the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic, whereas we heard evidence that we also need to be aware of the 1968 Vienna Convention on road traffic. In any case, I suspect that what is required is a set of bilateral agreements, so the question is to what extent are those bilateral agreements in place.
Finally, I reiterate the point made by my noble friends who were members of the committee. It is clear that many EU hauliers derive substantial economic benefit from bringing goods to this country and engaging in cabotage in this country. On the face of it, it seems to me perfectly clear that EU member states would want there to be a mutual agreement that would allow many EU hauliers to continue to provide haulage services to and in this country; the permits required for UK hauliers on the continent of Europe are, by comparison, relatively modest in scale. Therefore, it seems to me that there ought to be an agreement available. If the arrangements break down and we are in a position where our hauliers cannot go to the continent and continental hauliers—in particular, eastern European hauliers—cannot act in this country, everybody will lose out, including many of our businesses that rely on eastern European hauliers.
Last Thursday morning, I was on the A14 heading west. Every other large truck that I passed or that passed me was from Poland, principally, or Slovenia, Romania or Bulgaria. Eastern European hauliers are here in their thousands, and we want them to be here because we do not have the haulage capacity to replace them. Therefore, we need this part of our suite of agreements with the EU to be put in place as fast as we can.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Lexden) (Con)
I call the next speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley. Lord Berkeley?
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Lexden) (Con)
Can the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, unmute?
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Lexden) (Con)
We will try to go back to the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley. I call the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Needham Market.
Baroness Scott of Needham Market (LD) [V]
My Lords, I hope that we are successful in retrieving the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, since he is certainly always worth listening to.
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for introducing the committee’s report. With much of the evidence almost two years old, I am really quite alarmed that it has taken so long for the report to come forward for debate. Having chaired an EU sub-committee myself, I know just how much work goes into these on the part of Members and staff but also witnesses and those who give evidence.
More than 20 years ago now, I was a county councillor in Suffolk and deputy chair of the Local Government Association and I was appointed to the transport committee of the EU Committee of the Regions. It was clear then that membership of the European Union and the way it was developing were making significant changes both to the demand for transport across the continent, as the single market expanded, and to the way in which transport was organised and the various regulatory frameworks that underpin it. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, is exactly right to say that there were many good things and it is a pity that we will lose those, and perhaps seeing what we can salvage from that would be an excellent way forward.
We have moved far beyond the stage of bemoaning Brexit, and what we must do now is focus on the practical implications, which are now just a matter of weeks away. What is surprising, in a report that is as old as this, is just how few of the committee’s concerns have been addressed, as the noble Lords, Lord Whitty and Lord Lansley, have pointed out. It has become clear that transport, and particularly road transport, is still a significant point of difference between the UK and the EU. As recently as 2 September, Mr Barnier reflected that UK demands were too close to wanting existing single market-style rights, without meeting any of its obligations. That does not bode well, and nor does the current mood music emanating from Downing Street.
We need answers to pressing issues right now. It will not be good enough to wait until problems ensue, because then we are likely to be trying to put in place hasty solutions, perhaps sought from a position of weakness—I am not as optimistic as the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra. In that case, we will need real co-operation with our former partners, and I am afraid that the sort of rhetoric that we have seen so often is not creating the harmonious environment that we need. Nowhere will that impact more than in Northern Ireland, as we heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie.
A large-scale study carried out in July by Descartes, a leading logistics business, found that two-thirds of large firms are very or extremely concerned about longer delays in their supply chain that would impact their business post Brexit. Fewer than one in five of UK businesses are prepared for a no-deal Brexit, and two-thirds of businesses have had their preparations disrupted by Covid-19. That is not a happy picture.
I shall concentrate most of my remaining remarks on road haulage, because that reflects the balance of this afternoon’s debate, but I shall make one quick point on maritime. Maritime transport is indeed an international trade and is regulated internationally very effectively by the International Maritime Organization, as the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, pointed out. As a former board member of Lloyds Register, I know the IMO very well, and I know that, effective as it is, it is not in any way democratically accountable. Indeed, when I was chairing a sub-committee and asked the IMO to come and give evidence to our inquiry, it simply refused and said, “We don’t do that,” so I think that the noble Lord needs to be a little cautious about the extent to which the IMO might be a model.
Returning to roads, Logistics UK has just warned that the new freight management system will not be ready in time for the end of transition in January. Can the Minister confirm whether that is the case and outline what will be done in the interim? The special permits and bilateral agreements with individual member states will facilitate some EU-UK haulage, but they will almost certainly not be sufficient to meet demand and will require negotiation. As the noble Lord, Lord Bourne said, it is going to be clunky. With no-deal Brexit looking increasingly likely, what is the Government’s assessment of the impact of no deal on the road haulage industry and subsequently on the supply chain?
The report highlights the importance of consultation with the haulage industry. Last week it was reported that Mr Gove had met representatives in talks that the Cabinet Office described as constructive. That is a relief, I thought, until an unnamed source from the haulage side described the talks as a “washout”. More constructively, the chief executive of the Road Haulage Association, said that they
“fell far short of our expectations.”
So while we are still embroiled with Brexit, the EU is continuing to develop new proposals. At the end of July, it produced its new mobility package, which will impact on freight transport access and access to the profession. Can the Minister say how the UK will respond to these rule changes and how they will impact on UK drivers in the EU and vice versa?
I want to ask the Minister about the lorry parks, which the noble Lords, Lord Whitty and Lord Bourne, and my noble friend Lord Bradshaw all mentioned. Here in Suffolk we are pretty sure we will end up having one. I understand why the Government have to do this in the way that they are suggesting, but I am sure that they will understand that it leaves a lot of local communities concerned. Can the Minister give any kind of assurance that, in the absence of the usual planning processes, there will be any mechanism for local communities to have their say on important details, such as the hours of working, mitigation for noise and light pollution, and increased and perhaps unsuitable use of local roads?
If we have some sort of normality next summer, many thousands of people will want to head to mainland Europe for holidays and many will want to come here. As things stand, we have mutual recognition of driving licences and drivers’ insurance cover when in the EU. Without similar successor arrangements, it is not at all clear what will happen next year. UK drivers will need an international driving permit. I understand that the committee’s recommendation that there should be an online option still has not been carried out and that you still have to go to the post office in person. Will the Minister say what will be done to improve the accessibility of the permit? What will be the position for EU drivers coming here?
With regard to bus and coach travel, can the Minister confirm that passenger rights conferred by the EU regulation have been transferred to the UK body of law?
Finally, the report points out that bus and coach travel is liberalised at the EU level, and the committee has called for an agreement to retain reciprocal market access. Without that, Interbus will be of very limited use. Can the Minister update the Committee on progress on bus issues? I look forward to hearing from her.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Lexden) (Con)
I understand that connection with the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, is still impossible, so I call the next speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe.
Covid-19: Public Transport
Lord Lexden Excerpts(3 years, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton [V]
My Lords, the Government have been asked by a number of different groups to give priority to public transport over the past few months, but to operationalise that is incredibly hard. While we are not looking to put in those sorts of mechanisms at this time, we are looking to maximise the capacity and make sure that demand comes on to the system at the appropriate time, which is why, as I said earlier, staggered starting of offices and schools is so important.
The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)
My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed.
Public Transport: Social Distancing
Lord Lexden Excerpts(3 years, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton [V]
I refer the noble Lord to the comments that I made earlier. We will be working on recovery plans for all transport modes over the summer. At the moment and at peak times in particular, many of our transport modes are operating at capacity. I take the point that we need to look at what will happen next year, the forecasts for it and how we encourage people back on to trains and buses, but that point has not been reached now.
The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)
My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed. We now come to the second Oral Question. I call the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra.
Holyhead
Lord Lexden Excerpts(4 years, 2 months ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton
I thank the noble Lord for his question. I was very prepared to respond to questions about ports but not on ships today, so I will have to write to him.
Lord Lexden (Con)
My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, referred to the creation of a border in the Irish Sea, and there has been a great deal of speculation about this. Will the Government permit such a border or not?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
My Lords, that is a long and complex question with a long and complex answer. As noble Lords will know, arrangements for borders in the Irish Sea or elsewhere are currently under discussion.
Thomas Cook
Lord Lexden Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton
I thank my noble friend, who makes an extremely important point. I may be mistaken, but I did understand that BALPA wanted the Government to give Thomas Cook the £250 million, which, in my mind, would just be propping up a failing board, which, clearly, he does not have an awful lot of respect for.
It is top of mind to make sure that the employees are treated as well as possible. The Insolvency Service is preparing to pay statutory redundancy to employees. I will look further into exactly what payments will be made and when, and I will include payments that are due to pensions. I will provide as much information as I possibly can and I will put a copy of my letter in the Library to clarify what the Government and the Insolvency Service can do to support employees in the short term. In the longer term, as I have already said, the Jobcentre Plus rapid response service is there, waiting and able to help employees. I have been really heartened by so many companies, such as British Airways and Heathrow Airport, sharing their jobs’ pages on Twitter and saying, “Look, Thomas Cook staff, we respect you. You are good workers. We’ve got jobs, please apply to us”.
Lord Lexden (Con)
Will the Government, in due course, produce a full report which they will lay before Parliament, setting out the causes of this disaster, the tremendous rescue operation that is under way, and the full costs for which the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Ladyton, has asked?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
My noble friend makes a very important point. All this information will be available in due course.
Railways: Midland Main Line
Lord Lexden Excerpts(5 years ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton
I agree with much of what the noble Lord said. We recognise that there are challenges across our rail network. That is why we are investing £48 billion over the next five years. This is the biggest modernisation of our rail network in more than a century and represents more than half of our national transport budget. The improvements to the midland main line will benefit from £1.5 billion. There will be faster journeys and more seats, but the important thing to recognise is that there will also be reduced disruption for passengers as the improvements come online.
Lord Lexden (Con)
Will careful consideration be given to heating on the trains to Sheffield, for the sake of passengers who do not wear ties?
Lord Lexden
Should we not also wish our excellent new Transport Minister well as she prepares to familiarise herself more fully with London’s road network by taking part in the marathon?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
I thank my noble friend, although I am not sure of the heating benefits of a tie, having never worn one. Of course, we must look at passengers’ comfort when they travel. Many factors make for a good passenger experience. A recent survey showed that the age and quality of the trains is very important.
Railway Services: The Pennines
Lord Lexden Excerpts(5 years, 4 months ago)
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Baroness Sugg
We have extensive investment planned for the north. Northern Powerhouse Rail is currently in the development stage, and options are being considered which include serving Bradford. We will be working closely with cities across the north to deliver those improvements and services.
Lord Lexden (Con)
Does my noble friend have any news on the improvements that are needed on the line between London and Lincoln? Does she realise the acute disappointment that was manifest throughout the House when the special House of Lords awayday had to be postponed, particularly since my noble friend Lord Cormack was looking forward to entertaining us all in sumptuous style in the city of Lincoln?
Baroness Sugg
I thought that a different noble friend would ask that question, but I thank my noble friend for his continued interest in this subject. I have met LNER and the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, in an attempt to make progress on this. LNER is hoping to introduce new services to Lincoln from September this year. This is dependent on Network Rail approving its timetable bid, but its services will operate from Monday to Saturday and will include services suitable for day trips from London to Lincoln, so perhaps the awayday could still go ahead.
Railways: CrossCountry
Lord Lexden Excerpts(5 years, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Sugg
My Lords, as I said before, one of the things we will be expecting the new franchise operator to deliver is more rolling stock, to deal with overcrowding. I say from recent experience that we will be looking closely at the train drivers that it has available.
Lord Lexden (Con)
Will my noble friend do her best to ensure that rail services to Lincoln remain as good as possible, so that we can all take up the invitation given to us recently to visit my noble friend Lord Cormack and take up the lavish hospitality I know he wants to give us?
Baroness Sugg
My Lords, it is unexpected to get a question about Lincoln from other noble Lords. I reiterate that the Government are looking forward to the new service to Lincoln and I welcome my noble friend to join my other noble friend on its maiden voyage.
Road Maintenance
Lord Lexden Excerpts(5 years, 11 months ago)
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Baroness Sugg
My Lords, we must certainly do all we can to reduce deaths and injuries on our roads. According to Cycling UK, over half of people say that they would cycle more if they were not so worried about the state of our roads. Potholes and poorly maintained roads are a menace for all road users—including noble Lords—which is why we are taking action to improve the condition of the local road network. In particular, the Department for Transport has allocated £296 million to the Pothole Action Fund, on top of existing funding. Noble Lords will know that fuel duty is most definitely a matter for the Chancellor, but I will certainly pass on the noble Lord’s suggestion.
Lord Lexden (Con)
Potholes or not, how can pedestrians on the pavements alongside these roads maintain themselves in a safe condition when cyclists refuse to equip their machine with a bell and curse those, like me, who politely ask them to mend their ways? Could they possibly be in league with those who will stop at absolutely nothing to reduce the size of this House?
Baroness Sugg
My Lords, we absolutely want to improve the safety of cyclists and all other road users, including pedestrians. Obviously, we are in favour of cycling. It improves people’s health, cuts congestion and is good for the environment. Among employers, it has been associated with fewer sick days and improved productivity. We are keen to support cyclists, as I said. Last year, we published our cycling and walking investment strategy, which included £1.2 billion of funding to encourage more people to travel by foot or by bike—but I will certainly see whether there is anything we can do to ensure that cyclists put a bell on their bicycle.
Railways: East Coast Main Line
Lord Lexden Excerpts(7 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
That is part of the ongoing discussions, and the noble Lord will be aware of Transport for the North and its plans. It is right that as those plans take shape we are in discussions to ensure that the very routes that the noble Lord is talking about are prioritised in the right way. Regarding the charges made for the various services on the rail network, like everyone in your Lordships’ House, we always look to the companies running them to ensure that they reflect the level and quality of service we want. As a regular user of train services, that point should be made to the operator of that particular line.
Lord Lexden (Con)
Will my noble friend the Minister encourage my noble friend Lord Cormack to arrange an awayday visit for us all to historic Lincoln?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I am sure my noble friend has heard that loud and clear, and perhaps the ability to move your Lordships’ Chamber for a day away is a challenge that my noble friend might well take up.