Prepayment Meters

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 14th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they have taken to compensate individuals or households who have had pre-payment meters wrongly installed.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, suppliers are responsible for paying compensation. It is paramount that customers affected by the involuntary installation of some prepayment meters receive compensation as soon as possible. Suppliers have so far carried out 150,000 assessments to ensure that those impacted get the compensation they deserve. Of those, around 2,500 customers have been identified as requiring compensation, and 1,502 payments worth £342,000 have been made so far. We engage with Ofgem regularly to ensure that suppliers compensate remaining customers promptly.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. However, as he said, the assessment was carried out by the selfsame people who supplied the enforced prepayment meters in the first place. Does he not see that there is a potential conflict of interest here? Will he say whether the Government have arranged for any independent checks to show that these assessments are accurate and are not simply letting companies mark their own homework?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I understand the point the noble Lord is making, but that is the role of the independent regulator Ofgem. My Secretary of State and Minister Solloway have had regular meetings with suppliers directly and with Ofgem to ensure that they are doing the job correctly and that the assessments are being made correctly, but the noble Lord is right, and we are monitoring the situation closely.

Offshore Petroleum Licensing Bill

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Committee stage
Tuesday 23rd April 2024 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank everyone who has spoken in the debate so far. I thank the noble Earl, Lord Russell, for his proposal about omitting Scotland from the Bill, and the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, for his horrified response to the proposal to omit Scotland from the Bill. I am not sure about the debate on Scotland, to be honest, but on balance I think I would keep Scotland in the Bill. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, that I can see why these amendments would delay the Bill coming into effect, which would not be a bad thing. It would be better if the Bill were not here at all, but, hey, we cannot have everything we want.

The Government have admitted that the Bill will not take a penny off energy bills and will do nothing for energy security, because oil and gas are sold on the international market. The Bill will send precisely the wrong signals to investors about the UK’s commitment to the green transition: Amanda Blanc, chief executive officer of Aviva said that new oil and gas drilling

“puts at … risk the jobs, growth and the additional investment the UK requires to become more climate ready”.

The Bill has been slammed from many quarters, including some surprising ones, such as Theresa May, former Prime Minister. The noble Lord, Lord Browne, former chief executive officer of BP, said it

“is not going to make any difference”

to Britain’s energy security.

Annual licencing rounds will not boost the UK’s economy, as North Sea oil and gas is already in decline, as the Minister confirmed, and over the next decade, in Scotland and England, there will be 25 new jobs in clean energy for every job that is lost in oil and gas. That is what we have to secure: the transition of workers from oil and gas to the new green, clean energy. More extraction in the North Sea will not improve any security or lower energy bills. Remaining reserves are mostly oil, not gas, and 78% of that oil is exported, as it is not in the right form for use in the United Kingdom. The UK is already feeling the devastating impact of climate change, and granting licences simply amplifies the effects. Campaign groups have indicated that the current licences will send “a wrecking ball” through the UK’s climate commitments.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

First, I thank noble Lords for their brevity on this group.

Amendment 20 seeks to amend the Bill to exclude Scotland. Of course, the vast majority of offshore oil and gas activity takes place off the coast of Scotland to the benefit of all citizens across the United Kingdom. Excluding Scotland from the scope of the Bill, which I understand is the intention of the amendment, would significantly undermine the benefits that the Bill is intended to create. It would risk causing unnecessary confusion for industry and create considerable complexity for the independent regulator. This is particularly true as we transition towards a low-carbon economy and workforce.

As I have already mentioned in previous groups, a report by Robert Gordon University found that over 90% of the UK’s oil and gas workforce have medium to high skills transferability to the offshore renewables sector. Many of those, of course, are in Scotland, where OEUK estimates that over 90,000 jobs are supported by the oil and gas industry. If we rush the transition, or create additional uncertainty in the investment environment, we risk losing the jobs and skills that we will need as we scale up the clean technologies needed to realise that crucial net zero target.

Surplus Carbon Emissions

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 27th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

There is a degree of truth to what the noble Lord says. I do not characterise it as our having de-industrialised; we have some very successful manufacturing industries in this country, many of them low-carbon industries. Of course, the issue of carbon leakage is important, and it is one reason why we have committed to introducing a carbon border adjustment mechanism; we are currently consulting on the precise make-up of that. However, the noble Lord is right that it is a factor.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

What impact will the Offshore Petroleum Licensing Bill have on our ability to meet future carbon budgets?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As we debated extensively last night, it will have a negligible impact.

Strategy and Policy Statement for Energy Policy in Great Britain

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 25th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have contributed thus far to the debate for making my job somewhat easier than it would otherwise have been and for raising important questions. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, raised the affordability of standing charges from the NEA. The noble Lord, Lord Naseby, raised a lot of concerns about lack of progress in a number of areas, which, no doubt, the Minister will address. The noble Earl, Lord Russell, had a range of concerns, particularly about a lack of potential progress on the auctioning of offshore wind contracts for difference, which is about to take place—I think next week.

For my own part, there are three points I want to raise this evening. First, this is the first statement since the Government’s Energy Act 2013 facilitated such statements. Secondly, while we agree with much of the statement, there are some clear differences between the Conservatives and Labour: in particular, on setting 2030 as the date by when Great Britain will be a clean power generator. Thirdly, there is a lack of detail and therefore a need for revision at the earliest opportunity.

I will take these points in order. The Energy Act 2013 assumed that a strategy and policy statement would be essential to align government policy with the actions of government agencies and bodies such as Ofgem and ensure they were marching in lockstep. There has not been a statement since 2013. As the noble Earl, Lord Russell, said, given the five-year gaps between statements, we should now be reviewing our second statement.

However, this policy statement is important in seeking to align government and Ofgem, with Ofgem having recently been designated with a net-zero mandate under the Government’s energy policy of 2023. The Government cannot direct Ofgem, so Ofgem cannot operate unless there is such a policy statement. While this policy statement has been delayed—let us say, since 2013—it is certainly now welcome.

These policy statements are supposed to last five years. We should have had a strategy and policy statement immediately after the 2013 Act, and we should now be revising the second one. It is also clear that the strategy and policy statement will not last more than a year or so from now, because there will be a general election. The outcome of that election is not yet known but, should Labour win, it will certainly be reviewed. Can the Government say why no policy statement has been submitted before now?

While much of the statement is welcome, there are some clear differences between the Government and Labour. The original 2030 date by when we were to have clean power is no longer accepted by the Government. They have recently put back from 2030 until 2035 the date for ending the sales of internal combustion engines, in effect, meaning there will be at least a five-year delay. Their former net zero tsar, Chris Skidmore, and their widely respected former chair of COP, Alok Sharma, have both been highly critical of the Government’s policy. This will surely do nothing to reassure either of them.

There are also areas as yet undefined and unclear, such as the relationship between ISOP—now to be called the national energy system operator—and Ofgem. NESO is a commitment in the Energy Act 2023 but, as we have heard, is yet to be established. When it is, there will be much work to be done to define its relationship with Ofgem as well as questions to be addressed about the regional energy system planners. Once NESO is set up, will there be a statement about these matters, including its relationship to Ofgem and, therefore, to government?

There are other areas that require updating. As the noble Earl, Lord Russell, said, these include a plan for developing long-duration energy storage, as well as the 2030 fuel poverty target, which National Energy Action says will be missed by 90%, and the rollout of smart meters, which is well behind the time set originally by the Government. These and other areas in the statement are either unexplained or undefined. Will any update on these matters be forthcoming?

Finally, a strategic policy statement must take account of the real state of the policy landscape or risk irrelevance; but a statement is better than none at all, which is why we welcome this statement despite its shortcomings

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. First, I am confident that the strategic priorities and policy outcomes in the SPS clearly establish what the Government are trying to achieve in the sector. I think it got fairly widespread support and it established why this is important, demonstrating how these smaller policy outcomes contribute to the broader strategic priorities so that stakeholders can be reassured of how their role fits into the bigger picture.

I hope that the SPS gives industry a sufficiently high-level understanding of the roles, responsibilities and remit of government and the regulators in helping to deliver these objectives. Particularly in the case of NESO, we have provided enough information on the body’s remit to give confidence on the role that it will play when it is established, while also recognising that its responsibilities will evolve over time. As well as reaffirming our ambitions, this SPS will give encouragement to Ofgem to utilise the full range of its existing powers to ensure that those ambitions are realised and that stability and confidence are restored across the sector.

I move on to the points that were raised in the debate, starting with my noble friend Lady McIntosh. The SPS makes clear the importance of tackling fuel poverty, as was also raised by the noble Lord, Lord Lennie. Ofgem has conducted a call for evidence on the standing charges issue. I know it is a very topical issue; there is a lot of concern. Ofgem received over 40,000 responses to that consultation. It is reviewing those responses. The Government are liaising closely with Ofgem to understand the options going forward. It is an independent regulator, and it would not be right to interfere in the decisions that it will make, but we do understand the concern that has been raised.

The NESO will be funded and regulated by Ofgem through licences and the price control process, as is the case with the electricity and gas system operators today. That is a well-known model, understood widely across the sector. The approach will provide accountability, scrutiny and, of course, value for money, while ensuring that the NESO is able to deliver fully on its objectives.

As part of agreeing future price controls, Ofgem will ensure that NESO is fully resourced to fulfil its objectives and the obligations set out in its licence, including the funding of its statutory duties such as those towards innovation and keeping developments in the energy sector under review. As with other regulated bodies in the sector, the NESO will have the operational freedom it needs to manage and organise itself to effectively deliver its roles and objectives.

I move on to the points raised by my noble friend Lord Naseby. He quoted extensively from the National Audit Office report on home heating. That is of course different from what we are debating today, but he raised some very good points, particularly on the rollout of heat pumps et cetera, on which I agree. My noble friend will be aware that we took a decision not to proceed with the hydrogen village trial last year. That was due chiefly to the lack of available hydrogen, but it also took into account the real concerns that were raised by many members of the public in that area. It is undoubtedly the case that electrification will provide the vast majority of the decarbonisation options in home heating; hydrogen will play a very limited role, if any, in the decarbonisation of heating.

In response to the questions raised by the noble Earl, Lord Russell, and the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, our aim continues to be for the NESO to be operational in 2024, depending on a number of factors including agreeing timelines with various key parties.

On the review of the SPS, I confirm that the Secretary of State can review the strategy and policy statement at any time—for example, following a general election or a significant change in energy policy.

On the questions raised by the noble Earl, Lord Russell, about the rules and responsibilities of NESO, I confirm that we have set out the roles and responsibilities of government, Ofgem and NESO at a high level in the SPS. The Government set the policy direction, while Ofgem is the independent regulator and makes decisions on business and investment plans. NESO will be the whole system planner, the operator of the electricity system, and the expert adviser to the Government and Ofgem as key decision-makers.

We are currently developing a framework agreement, which will set out the relationship between the Government as the shareholder and NESO. We plan to publish this shortly after designation. The specific roles and obligations of NESO will be set out in its licences, on which Ofgem undertook an initial consultation last year. We are due to undertake a statutory consultation this spring. However, as mentioned previously, we expect that NESO’s role and remit will continue to evolve over time as energy policy develops.

On NESO not being able to raise concerns over the achievability of SPS outcomes until it is established, I reassure the noble Lord that Ofgem will also have a responsibility to raise concerns over achievability. We are already in frequent dialogue with the current electricity system operator, on which NESO will be based, where the Government’s ambitions for energy are regularly discussed.

Finally, I move on to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, on why now is the right time for the SPS. The Energy Act 2023 introduced new measures and established the independent system operator and planner in the first place as NESO. We thought that now was a good time—to reply to the point about major policy changes—to develop strategic guidance to explain exactly how we believe that Ofgem, government and NESO would work together to meet the Government’s energy priorities going forward.

I hope I have been able to deal with all the points raised by noble Lords.

Energy Bills Discount Scheme (Amendment) Regulations 2024

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 12th March 2024 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, as we have heard, this instrument enables the Secretary of State to set a date after which heat networks can no longer apply for support under the energy bills discount scheme. Under the scheme, qualifying heat suppliers are required—that is the word used—to apply for support, which they then pass on to their domestic customers in the form of energy bill discounts. The Department for Energy Security and Net Zero has said that not all QHSs have applied for EBDS support. Although the scheme itself will end on 31 March, there is currently no effective date for applications to be received. The Minister has set this out—so far, so tidy.

DESNZ has estimated that 3,000 qualifying heat suppliers may not have applied for the EBDS, but we do not actually know, because there was no register of the qualifying heat suppliers. We do not know how many there are or where they are, so we cannot follow them all up. That is one of the problems with the scheme that was set up. However, we estimate that up to 60,000 domestic customers may lose out on support as a result of qualifying heat suppliers not applying for a scheme discount, as required.

As we have heard from the noble Earl, Lord Russell, the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, and the Minister the value of lost discounts is about £1,200 a customer. That loss will disproportionately affect disadvantaged groups, such as the elderly and ethnic minorities—people who have been described as “skint little people”—who are significantly more likely to be on heat networks. Could the Minister set out what specific initiatives have been undertaken to encourage take-up of EBDS bids by heat networks? Have they made inroads into identifying where the qualifying heat suppliers are, so that they can be targeted and encouraged to apply? Which initiatives have been successful, if any, and how recently? Has it been an evolving, slow process?

The proposal in this instrument makes administrative sense, rather than leaving open an estimated total liability of £6 million for not closing the scheme to new applicants. Administrative sense is one side of this equation; the other side is the customers, and it seems less considered from their perspective. The Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments and His Majesty’s Opposition initially expressed concern that an obligation was being placed on intermediaries without any means of enforcing it. It is all very well requiring someone to do something when, if they fail to do it, nothing happens except that the individuals can take them to court or to the ombudsman.

How many times has that happened during the course of the scheme? I suspect it is very few times, if any. Can the Minister tell us whether any such initiatives have been taken? Essentially, this is about a vulnerable customer being required to take their landlord to court to get a subsidy for their gas bill. The chances of that happening are fairly remote, but we will no doubt hear from the Minister on that. This means that companies and organisations that have failed to apply for, or pass on, discounts have simply got away with it. Who knows the truth of that? We do not know who they are.

As I indicated, we support the closing of the scheme and the ending date for applications, but we are unhappy with the way the scheme has been allowed to drift into oblivion with no forfeit for those who should have acted on it.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all three noble Lords for their contributions. I am proud to say that, through the scheme, the Government have provided support to hundreds of thousands of households, helping them with financial pressures when they needed it most. The Government remain fully aware of the continued challenges posed by cost of living pressures, including the impact of energy bills. We are providing extensive financial support to households, including a package of support to assist households with the rising cost of living—this will total over £104 billion, or £3,700 per household on average, between 2022 and 2025. All three noble Lords recognised the extensive package of support that was put in place.

I totally understand the points made by the noble Earl, Lord Russell, and the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, on the heat network sector. The noble Earl is right that our database is not as good as it could be in terms of what heat networks are available. It is perfectly possible at the moment for anybody to build a block of flats and, in effect, set up a heat network; they do not necessarily have to tell the Government about it. However, if noble Lords remember, we recognised that in the Energy Act, where we took powers to regulate the heat network sector. That is why we are introducing new consumer regulations for heat networks and, from next year, we will have new consumer protections in place, provided through the Energy Act. That will give Ofgem powers to investigate and intervene in networks where prices for consumers appear to be unfair, or if prices are significantly higher than comparable heating systems. They are, in effect, natural monopolies, and therefore it is right that consumer protections exist. Those regulations will also seek to introduce back-billing rules, which exist already to protect gas and electricity customers.

The noble Lord, Lord Vaux, raised an important point about reaching as many customers as possible. It is indeed a priority for my department to ensure that as many customers as possible access the support available to them. So far, 12,000 applications have been approved under the scheme, which means that hundreds of thousands of domestic customers have been supported. We think that that figure of 12,000 represents the vast majority of qualified heat suppliers. We know that a scheme that was very much developed in haste in response to the energy crisis—as noble Lords will remember—was never going to be perfect. On top of that, we will strive to make sure that as many people as possible are reached by the scheme— but we think that it has reached the vast majority of eligible customers. We are targeting communications at heat suppliers with vulnerable customers, including housing associations and local authorities, and we will continue to do so.

The noble Lord, Lord Vaux, raised an important question—not at all related to this statutory instrument—about the distortions of gas and electricity pricing, and the protections provided to customers as part of that. It is fair to say that this is a big issue that we are concerned about. Ultimately, the answer to the noble Lord’s question is that, as the amount of gas on the network declines and the amount of gas used to generate power declines, prices will stabilise and there will be a steady decoupling. There are no immediate solutions to that. Perhaps it would be more sensible for me to write to the noble Lord with more detail on the considerations that have gone into this, because a lot of work has gone on, including a lot of studying of the market to see how we can improve it. I recognise that many people consider that they are getting renewable electricity through their suppliers, but the price that they receive for it reflects the cost of gas in the system, because it is a centralised market. I recognise that people see that as anomalous, and we are looking closely at this.

As I said, we recognise that customers on heat networks are not currently protected by the same set of protections as other customers, so in future they will be protected by Ofgem via the regulations that I mentioned earlier. The noble Earl, Lord Russell, raised concerns about the impact on vulnerable customers on communal networks. Careful consideration has been given to equality when amending these regulations. We are fully aware that heat networks are more likely than other comparable heat sources to serve vulnerable and elderly customers, which is why we have carried out a number of activities to try to ensure that they receive the support to which they are entitled. We continue to engage with stakeholders such as the Heat Trust to learn about any issues with the customer journey, such as on the pass-through, and any other heat networks struggling with their applications so that we can continue to provide them with support.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

In the unlikely event that a customer takes a heat network to a court or ombudsman before the scheme closes, I presume that that application could continue beyond 31 March if it is not resolved by then and that the payment could duly be made.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

That is indeed the case. The application would continue beyond 31 March. Even after the scheme has ended, the responsibility of the supplier during the application of the scheme continues to be legally valid and therefore it is possible to take retrospective action against a heat supplier that has not fulfilled its legal obligations.

Nuclear Decommissioning Authority (Pension Scheme Amendment) Regulations 2024

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 13th February 2024 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, this instrument enacts the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority pension scheme, based on the review of public sector pension schemes by my noble friend Lord Hutton in 2011. This resulted in the Public Sector Pensions Act, which enabled the majority of public sector pensions to move from final salary to career average revalued earnings schemes. About 8,000 workers are affected as a result of this instrument. We have nothing to complain about on the scheme, but the process has raised a few questions, as the noble Lord, Lord Young, and the noble Earl, Lord Russell, have pointed out. I would like these to be addressed.

During the consultation, many respondents raised concerns that the proposed definitions and the application of the proposed powers were insufficiently clear or too broad. Many sought assurances that the powers would be restricted to implementing the reform agreed with their national trade unions. Furthermore, respondents requested either member or trade union and/or trustee engagement prior to the use of any of the powers. Could the Minister respond to those concerns?

The trustees of the CNPP and MEG-ESPS asked that they be given sufficient time to review the final rule amendments, indicating that about 12 months would have been appropriate. The response to the consultation says that, in the light of this specific request, as much notice as possible would be given to the trustees and members prior to implementation. We now know that the implementation date will be 1 April 2024. Can the Minister tell us when the Government notified the trustees of the changes? Did they deem this sufficient for their purposes of consultation and informing their members?

The noble Lord, Lord Young, raised a concern regarding the reform of the pensions for NDA employees who are covered by the Electricity (Protected Persons) (Scotland) Pension Regulations, which were not included in the public consultation. There are very few of them, as the noble Lord and the information provided say. How many are there? If a change is to be brought in for the persons in Scotland, presumably another full consultation will take place to precede any further regulations.

Finally, to repeat the question of the noble Lord, Lord Young, and the noble Earl, Lord Russell, the decision to introduce the scheme was taken on 28 December. There has been plenty of parliamentary time for this half-hour debate to take place, so could we have the actual reason why it was delayed so long?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their valuable contributions to this debate.

I will start with the points made by my noble friend Lord Young and the noble Earl, Lord Russell. On the small numbers of people excluded, if an individual is entitled to pension protection under the Electricity (Protected Persons) (Scotland) Pension Regulations, they are not in scope for the changes in the NDA group. Whether an individual has this protection will depend on whom they were employed by and the pension scheme that they were eligible to be a member of in March 1990. The Government have reserved their position to keep this under review.

I think that every noble Lord rightly raised the delay in bringing forward these provisions. It was not that we could not find 20 minutes of parliamentary time over six years—if that were true, my noble friend would have a very valid point—but that we did not get the primary powers we required, as he will recall, until the Energy Bill was enacted late last year. It was entirely a result of needing the primary powers before we could make these changes, not a lack of parliamentary time. A great many other measures were held up due to lack of parliamentary time, but that was not the reason for the delay here. My honourable friend the Minister for Nuclear in the other place met the trade unions last year to discuss the NDA provisions in the then Energy Bill. They noted that they were also concerned about the length of time but, when the delay was explained, they were broadly understanding of the reasons.

On the £200 million of savings, despite the delay in the introduction of this legislation, we estimate that the level of savings remains broadly accurate. The exact level will depend on the change to pension arrangements and will vary depending on when members of staff retire, but we still believe that the savings will be significant, of the order of £200 million.

The number of staff affected—broadly 8,000—remains the same. Employees affected were aware of the changes due to be enacted as of April 2024, and there has been a great deal of communication during the last year, including a website set up for those affected. If changes are required to schemes not covered by these regulations, such as schemes in Scotland, that would require further consultation. The Government remain committed to ensuring that public sector pension reform proceeds in line with the 2011 review of the noble Lord, Lord Hutton. These regulations are essential to the success of the implementation of CARE-based pension reform in the NDA group in accordance with broader public sector pay policy.

Reflecting back, it is evident that the complexities of the NDA group’s pension schemes required tailored reforms. Engagement with the trade unions resulted in a bespoke career average revalued earnings scheme, aligning with the broader public sector framework and maintaining valuable benefits for its members. Furthermore, the reform preserves commitments to those excellent benefits, notably including provisions for members to retire at their current retirement age, as I said in opening, which for the majority will be 60. These measures will align NDA group final salary pensions with wider public sector standards, ensuring fairness and efficiency, yielding substantial financial savings and bolstering the NDA’s mission of responsibly decommissioning the UK’s nuclear legacy. I think I have answered all the points put to me—

Hydrogen Heating

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 11th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a very good point. We will of course fully consider those recommendations alongside the views on hydrogen heating.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, newspaper reports at the weekend suggested that the Government were looking for an entire town to use as a hydrogen heating pilot. Given the difficulties in Whitby and Redcar, referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, which are not yet resolved but will be very soon, and recent scientific developments, which she also referred to, about indirect warming from hydrogen emissions being higher than previously thought, does the Minister think that now is the right time to be pushing ahead with this?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord will find out whether now is the right time to be pushing ahead with it when we announce the decision. He should not necessarily believe everything that he reads in the newspapers.

Climate Change: Aims for COP 28

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 28th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. As she mentioned, we are reviewing our membership. I do not know when a decision will be taken. I hesitate to use the word “imminently” after the last question, but I am sure that we will want to act as quickly as possible.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, staggeringly, we lose more than 15 million trees globally each year due to deforestation. The Center for Global Development predicts that we will lose at least 1 million square miles of forested land by 2050. Can the Government give an update on their pledge to the COP 26 to reverse deforestation by 2030? Can the Minister tell the House whether the Government will use COP 28 as an opportunity to reconsider this key commitment?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point. We helped to secure an agreement on the Kunming-Montreal global biodiversity framework to halt and reverse biodiversity loss by 2030, and the agreement on marine biodiversity in areas beyond national jurisdiction. We were pleased to support that during our COP presidency and want to continue doing so.

Green Gas Support Scheme (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 20th November 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

The noble Lord has high expectations. As with the scheme we just discussed, we were very supportive of this scheme when it came out and we still are. Supporting the injection of biomethane into the gas grid, replacing other gases, produces substantial carbon savings and is very welcome indeed. As such, I will not speak for long on this instrument, which simply makes changes to improve the administration of what is already a very positive scheme.

The extent of these changes is to improve the administration of the green gas levy, as the Minister said, to reduce the administrative burden for Ofgem and the gas suppliers that pay it, and to ensure a maintained link between the regulations and policy intent. We welcome the lower administrative burden for Ofgem. It is due, not least, to successful efforts during the passage of the Energy Bill, and it now has a specific mandate to support the Government to meet their net-zero obligation.

I have a few questions, which may help the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, in his curiosity about this. Where the instrument changed the green gas levy formerly, it implied that gas suppliers were paying too much due to how interest on funds is allocated. Specifically, interest that had accrued in Ofgem’s account was added to the levy collection target rather than deducted from it, which makes little sense. How did that apparent mistake happen? While it feels peculiar arguing against more money for a scheme that we support—for once, I am not suggesting that gas suppliers’ profits should be better used—it is important that such a scheme is administered fairly. What happened to the previous levies that were collected at too high a rate?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

They were not taken.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

The instrument also allows the Secretary of State to review and update the maximum levy amount to ensure that the levy remains able to sufficiently finance the GGSS after 2008-09, as the Minister said. This of course makes sense, as it is a good scheme and should be financed, but I am cautious on both sides of the argument. If the Secretary of State is to have this new power, why was the scheme not initially created with it written in? Also, if the predicted funding requirement increase is in part predicated on a welcome increase in biomethane production, do the Government foresee a situation where the other reason for the increase—inflation, which I should note was previously caused by the Government—could make a decision to increase the MLA difficult? If so, what happens to the scheme and, if not, could the MLA not increase automatically?

I am curious about the de minimis payments the Minister mentioned. Is this expected to make a net loss or profit for the levy, and has any review been done of the administrative functions that make small payments disproportionately burdensome?

As the Minister said, the other changes are minor, so I will conclude, other than to restate that it is welcome that this positive scheme is being further improved.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, for his very brief contribution and his support. I will come on to the questions from the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, in a moment.

As I said, the green gas levy is charged to licensed gas suppliers in Great Britain to fund the green gas support scheme. These policies make an important contribution to achieving our emissions reduction target by incentivising the production of biomethane and its injection into the gas grid. This reduces the emissions intensity of the UK’s gas supply and ensures the capture and use of emissions from waste, which is used as feedstock for green gas production.

The SI will ensure that the green gas levy can run optimally and will reduce administrative burdens for Ofgem and gas suppliers, thus reducing costs. It will also ensure that the levy is set as intended by altering the collection formula and by adding flexibility to the setting of the maximum levy amount. Overall, this will help the delivery of a cost-effective levy, benefiting policy administration and gas suppliers and, therefore, bill payers.

I will pick up the first question from the noble Lord, Lord Lennie. As I said in my introduction, the interest is charged two years in arrears. There has therefore been no net effect from what was an administrative error when the regulations were tabled. We want this modification to the SI approved now so that, when those interest payments subsequently become due, they will be used to subtract and not add to the overall amount—as was originally stated in error.

The further changes will improve the administration of the levy by Ofgem and for all gas suppliers, and the instrument gives us the opportunity to make these changes. The levy was launched on 30 November 2021, and the intervening years to this point have given us the opportunity to identify one or two minor technical changes to the levy to help reduce the administrative burden. In answer to the noble Lord’s second question, again, we do not expect the de minimis level to make any difference to the overall rate—it is purely that for those very few gas suppliers that have a tiny number of meter points, the administration cost of the levy exceeds the sum raised, so actually it will probably save money in the longer term. However, of course it has no effect on all the big suppliers.

I have dealt with both questions from the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and I commend this regulation to the House.

Climate Financing

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 17th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As far as I know, we are fully committed to meeting those targets. We are very proud of our record and all the progress that we have made, including at least £3 billion on mitigating, protecting and restoring nature. We are on track to meet all our commitments.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

According to the International Institute for Sustainable Development, over $1 trillion of public money has been poured into fossil-fuel subsidies since COP 26, mainly in response to the war in Ukraine. This eclipses tenfold the climate finance initiatives made at COP 26. Do the Government accept that this lack of long-term thinking about energy efficiency, onshore wind and solar has left us vulnerable to these outside forces?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I do not agree with the noble Lord. We have an extremely good record on energy efficiency. To take one of his examples, we have improved the number of properties that are EPC band C or above from 14% when we came into office up to nearly 50% now. Obviously, we need to make a lot more progress. We are spending £6.5 billion in this Parliament on energy efficiency and have already committed another £6 billion from 2025. We are doing extremely well in this area.

Net Zero (Economic Affairs Committee Report)

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 16th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, and, through her, the noble Lord, Lord Bridges, and other members of the Economic Affairs Committee for producing this weighty report. July 2022 was also when the Government first announced their intention to legislate for the country’s future energy needs in the Energy Bill. The Energy Bill has now expanded to some 400-plus pages, has still not become an Act of Parliament and is due for further consideration by the other place later this week.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

It would not if the Government acted as Parliament recommended.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

There is a process to go through. The amendments we made were to the benefit of the Bill rather than to take away from it.

There is some crossover between the Economic Affairs Committee report and the legislation but, sadly, nowhere near enough. The starting point of this report was back in February 2022, when the Economic Affairs Committee launched an inquiry into how the Government could support investment in UK energy to achieve greater security of supply, improve affordability and meet the UK’s net-zero targets.

The committee considered how the Government planned to achieve the following two separate but related objectives. First was the commitment in law to achieve net zero by 2050 alongside the target to decarbonise the system by 2035. The committee considered how this target might be achieved while ensuring the UK’s energy supply was “affordable and reliable”. It argued that encouraging private sector investment was the key to achieving net zero. However, the committee said there was

“a gap between the Government’s ambitions and the practical policy that is needed to provide confidence and clear market signals to investors”.

The second was the Government’s plans to mitigate the effect of rising energy prices exacerbated by Russia’s appalling invasion of Ukraine in 2022.

The report produced by the committee recommended that the Government should take the following measures over the next three to five years—now two to four years. First, they should publish a net-zero delivery plan which would detail how the UK could achieve net zero in an orderly way. Secondly, they should publish an energy demand reduction strategy which would include measures to increase incentives for investment in energy efficiency measures for buildings and to support the development of resilient supply chains and workforce skills—as the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, pointed out, this has not happened. Thirdly, they should increase the deployment of renewable energy sources to reduce the UK’s dependence on gas markets, including onshore wind, which it describes as

“one of the cheapest and fastest ways to increase renewable energy generation”,

despite the reservations of the noble Lord, Lord Frost. Fourthly, they should maintain existing energy generation in the immediate future while extending the life of nuclear power stations over coal power stations, as this would result in lower carbon emissions. Finally, they should seek to reach agreement with other European countries to manage energy supply emergencies. Have any of these measures been taken on board?

The committee also recommended that the Government should take action to increase investor confidence to make more private capital available to support the transition to net zero, by setting out a cost analysis of their targets to achieve 24 gigawatts of nuclear capacity. As the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, pointed out, this figure is more than double the capacity assumed by the Climate Change Committee. Can the Minister explain the variance between the two? It also recommended they provide more detail on the capacity, timeframes and expected costs of increasing long-duration energy storage, outline the market structures and mechanisms that would be used to support increased hydrogen production and support carbon capture and storage by fulfilling their commitment to develop four low-carbon industrial clusters. They should also design “market models” to provide information to investors on the types of technology required, to give potential investors greater confidence in the long-term viability of carbon capture and storage. Is there any sign of this happening?

Since the report was published, a number of government changes have affected energy policy. The Energy Bill was introduced in 2022 under Prime Minister Boris Johnson. It included measures intended to leverage investment in clean technologies, protect customers and maintain the safety, security and resilience of the energy system. It reached Committee on 7 September 2022 and was thereafter paused by the new Prime Minister, Liz Truss. Following Liz Truss’s resignation, in December 2022 Committee started again and, under Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, the House of Commons is now scheduled to consider Lords amendments on 18 October. In February 2023, BEIS was replaced, with responsibility for energy policy transferred to the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero. Grant Shapps served as Secretary of State for Energy from February to 31 August; currently, the Secretary of State is Claire Coutinho, but for how long is anyone’s guess.

Chris Skidmore published his review Mission Zero: Independent Review of Net Zero on 13 January 2023. It concluded that the UK was not on track to meet all its targets towards achieving net zero and stated that the Government needed to do more to make the most of the economic opportunities arising from the transition to net zero. The Government have published a series of policy updates on their plans. In March 2023, Powering Up Britain was Secretary of State Grant Shapps’s launch of the new Government’s energy strategy. In the same month, Mobilising Green Investment: 2023 Green Finance Strategy updated the previous green strategy. In this, the Government committed to commissioning an

“industry-led … review into how the UK can enhance our position and become the best place in the world for raising transition capital”.

Has it happened?

On 20 September 2023, Rishi Sunak, still the PM, gave a speech in which he announced some changes to government policy on achieving net zero. While working towards meeting their overall 2050 net-zero target, he said that policies including the ending of the sale of petrol and diesel cars and vans, plus the sale of new gas boilers, would be pushed back by five years to 2035. How does this help achieve net zero? Its effect has been to deter investment by undermining the commitment and consistency required by business, as the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, said.

This is the framework in which the Economic Affairs Committee report is being considered. Of its 38 recommendations, only a small handful have been taken forward. However, the Government’s initiatives to secure private capital by certainty and leadership are woefully inadequate. In the meantime, more changes have been confirmed. Alok Sharma, chair of COP 26, is standing down. Chris Skidmore is not going to contest his seat in the next general election. The offshore wind auction attracted no bids because the strike price was wrong.

Tony Blair once said:

“I’ve not got a reverse gear”.


It is a pity the same cannot be said of Rishi Sunak. The report rightly states that the Government cannot be expected to accurately predict what is going to happen in the future. Surely, though, we can expect more than what is currently on offer.

Labour would establish Great British Energy. It would invest in order that Britain can lead the world in carbon-free energy and technologies. Labour will ensure that we have the grid we need to rewire our country. Our public investment will stimulate private investment to bring prosperity to every part of Britain.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

First, I add my thanks to the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, for securing this debate, as well as thanking noble Lords for their insightful contributions.

It was a bit rich for the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, to criticise us for not getting the Energy Bill on to the statute book. The reason we have not done that is because the Opposition—despite saying that they support it—have supported largely irrelevant and superfluous amendments to the Bill. If the noble Lord is so keen to get it on to the statute book, he has the opportunity to prove it next week when it will come back to this House. I hope the Opposition will agree with the passage of the Bill, rather than just saying that they support it. We will then be able to get it on to the statute book and proceed to the secondary legislation, which will result from the primary powers, on things such as hydrogen, CCUS, et cetera.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

I think it is a bit rich for the Minister to say that the Opposition parties are responsible for the delay to the Energy Bill. It was paused by the Government for three or four months, when they went absolutely silent. We were knocking on the door asking what was happening with the Energy Bill, but nothing was forthcoming.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Consideration of Commons amendments
Tuesday 12th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I will make a few comments. First, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and my noble friend Lady Blake for their amendments and will make our position on them clear. Secondly, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, for the welcome changes that he made to the Bill in the other place on the housing levy and on renewable liquid fuels.

We generally welcome the passage of the Bill. It has been a long time in gestation—15 months or more—with hundreds of changes and more today. We welcome all those too, although they probably could have been made earlier.

I turn to the three amendments. First, on coal, the new new Labour Party is no longer in favour of coal. We absolutely support what the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, said about the coal industry, and it is time to put this in legislation. It is not enough to say that we are no longer committed to coal; we need to legislate for it and so we will be supporting this amendment.

On my noble friend Lady Blake’s amendment on energy efficiency, I will restate the facts. First, the UK has the least energy-efficient homes in Europe. Domestic energy-efficiency measures have fallen 95% since 2012 and are 20 times lower than they were when Labour was last in power. The Resolution Foundation estimates that 9 million households are paying an extra £170 a year as a result of these failings.

The Minister said that the amendment is unnecessary, because it is partly in the net zero strategy and the Powering Up Britain publication, but this is legislation, and it should state what the Government propose to achieve and by what timescale. Therefore, we support the amendment.

On community energy, the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, set out very clearly her proposal to commit the Government to finding out what the barriers inhibiting the development of community energy are, and to bring forward a plan to overcome them. That is a very modest amendment from where we were the last time around, and I can see no reason whatever for the Government not to support it. We will support those three amendments should the Members wish to test the opinion of the House.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. I will start on the last issue raised by the noble Baronesses, Lady Boycott and Lady Meacher, and others: that of community energy.

The Government launched the £10 million fund this summer, and it is larger than its predecessors. From what I have seen so far, it has been welcomed across the community energy sector. It will fund projects such as Congleton Hydro, which received £73,500 in funding from the former rural community energy fund—this fund will do a similar job. Thanks to that funding, it is producing affordable, clean and secure electricity from a local weir, enough to power the equivalent of 60 homes. Not only is the project reducing emissions in the area but its success has led to the creation of an annual £5,000 fund for local community projects.

Amendments 274A and 274B aim to commit us to a consultation on the barriers preventing the development of community energy schemes. The amendments set out with whom we should consult, and commit government to bringing forward proposals to remove identified barriers to community energy. But as I referred to earlier, the Government have already committed to consult on the barriers that the sector faces when developing projects. As part of this process, we will of course involve the community energy sector in designing the consultation, through the Community Energy Contact Group. We continue to believe that it is more appropriate to allow the small-scale export market to develop with minimum intervention than to introduce a support scheme that specifies minimum prices or contract lengths for generators.

I know that the House is keen on supporting community energy, and we are the same, but it has to be done in a cost-effective manner, because the cost is borne by every other bill payer. It might be advantageous to certain islands or rural community villages, but if there is a cost in excess of the system, it is borne by every other bill payer in the country. The amendments would place an additional obligation on government to bring forward proposals to remove these barriers within a specified timeframe.

In Committee in the other place, Energy UK submitted evidence recognising the role of community energy but cautioning:

“The additional context of developing roles for future energy system operation, reform of competition in delivery of network infrastructure, and wider reforms of electricity markets including energy retail”


mean that the consideration of community energy needs to take into account this much wider context, rather than considering community energy “in isolation”, and that we need

“to give the Government, the regulator, and the industry time to fully consider”

all those issues. We must be careful not to disadvantage the majority of the population to benefit a very small minority.

We obviously cannot be sure what the consultation will conclude until we have carried it out, so in our view it is not appropriate to make a commitment to do something the outcome of which, and what barriers or proposals will come forward, we do not know at this stage. But I reassure the House that the Government will continue to work closely with the sector and the wider industry on the best way forward.

I now move on to the somewhat contentious issue of coal. Amendment 272A, on prohibiting coal extraction, was raised by a number of noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Lennie, and of course the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett. I was particularly interested to hear the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, because of course we both come from the north-east of England, and there are still sitting Labour MPs in the north-east, whom the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, knows well, campaigning in favour of opening new coal mines. It is interesting that the Labour position seems to be developing from that.

A full prohibition on coal extraction is likely to prevent extensions in existing operational mining—even where that extension could enable site restoration or deliver public safety benefits. It would cut across heritage mining rights in, for instance, the Forest of Dean, which is important to its tourism offer, and perhaps also in Beamish, another area that we know well. Importantly, it would prevent domestic coal extraction projects from progressing that seek to supply industries that are still reliant on coal, such as steel manufacturing. Again, the Labour Party loses no opportunity to lecture us on the importance of the steel industry. That industry is going through a transformation, but many parts of it still require access to coal, so I hope the Labour Party has cleared its position with the steel unions, which I suspect would not support an amendment such as this—I will leave that little domestic argument to different Labour members.

The phasing out of future coal-powered generation, which we do agree with, is a more proportionate response to moving away from coal use than a complete prohibition on coal extraction. Such a ban would deny the prospect of access to domestic coal reserves for future generations, regardless of the circumstances, regardless of the use it could be put to and regardless of the fact that it could perhaps play a role with CCUS in the future.

The Secretary of State for DLUHC’s decision on the mine followed a comprehensive planning inquiry that heard from over 40 different witnesses and considered matters including the demand for coking coal and its suitability. It went into all the issues that the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, recommended, the climate change impact and, crucially, the impact on that particular local economy. While the full reasons for the Secretary of State’s decision are set out in his published letter—which should perhaps be read in its entirety—he concluded that

“there is currently a UK and European market for the coal … it is highly likely that a global demand would remain”.

While coking coal may be required for steel production for quite some time—I assume the Labour Party is not proposing that we should close the steel industry down overnight; if so, that would be a fairly radical policy change from all that it has said before—to support the decarbonisation of that industry through its transition period, as well as other industries that still rely on coking coal, we have already put in place the £315 million industrial energy transformation fund. We think that is a better way to help industry move away from coal in the future, rather than just banning their fuel source, because you would be banning British coal—you would not be banning coal; you would just import those same supplies produced by miners in other parts of the world. This helps business, in our view, with their high energy use, to cut their energy bills and reduce their carbon emissions through investing in energy efficiency and low-carbon technologies—that is a more constructive way to proceed.

On sustainable aviation fuel, again the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, got excited and condemned us for something that we are not doing. Sustainable aviation fuel is the most developed technology pathway for aviation decarbonisation and will play a key role along with the other technologies as outlined in the jet zero strategy. Many experts view sustainable aviation fuel as the only alternative to kerosene for long-haul flights up until 2050. If the noble Baroness does not want that, she should have the courage of her convictions and say to people that what the Greens really want to do is to ban flying completely, to prevent people going on business or on their holidays. If that is her agenda, she should say so, rather than try to put amendments forward to prevent us developing those sustainable fuels that we could use in the future to decarbonise the sector.

We recognise that there is uncertainty around feedstock availability and we will continue to work closely with colleagues across government to ensure that the most up-to-date evidence and modelling are reflected throughout the policy design of the SAF mandate and the revenue certainty mechanism. We have already confirmed that the sustainable aviation fuel mandate will not support crop-based biofuels and that SAF must meet strict sustainability criteria. These measures will prevent negative environmental consequences, such as the loss of biodiversity, deforestation and the clearance of land with high-carbon stock that could be associated with the cultivation of raw materials that may be used in certain SAF production.

On energy efficiency and energy statements, of course I understand noble Lords’ desire to go further. I am passionately committed to the cause of energy efficiency, but I do not recognise some of the characterisation put forward in this House. We are making good progress in this country. In 2010, some 14% of UK homes were at EPC band C or above. Now it almost 50%. We have a particularly difficult problem because we have the oldest housing stock in Europe, but we are making progress on this matter. We could go further and faster, and we are endeavouring to do so, but we do have a good record in this country. I want to put that on the record before I talk about the specific issues.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

All I would like to say is that, in response to the comments by the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, we are interested in keeping the lights on and we are interested in nuclear being part of the mix of fuels that will keep the electricity going, particularly now that coal will no longer be part of the electricity production in this country.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords for their contributions. I will first deal directly with the points by the noble Lord, Lord Kerr. What should I say about this? He is, of course, prescient in his observations, but this has been a long-standing policy—effectively of the Treasury, which is unwilling to fund many of these policies from general taxation. Therefore, a lot of previous subsidies, such as the warm home discount, are levied on energy bills. That has been a long-standing policy through a number of Governments and different Treasuries. I wish the noble Lord luck in his campaign to change the mind of His Majesty’s Treasury on these matters.

Moving on to the other issues, let me deal first with the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett. The problem for the Greens on this is that any sensible energy system in the UK—this is recognised also by the Opposition and we are grateful for their support—needs nuclear power, because it is a source of carbon-free electricity. Of course, many Greens, the more progressive Greens who have looked at our energy system properly, also support the use of nuclear power. I would point the noble Baroness to a very interesting website that I was looking at, called Greens for Nuclear Energy. This is a statement from a series of members of the Green Party who take a sensible and progressive view about this. Looking at the needs of the energy supply system and the need for decarbonisation, they have come to the same conclusion as many other sensible experts: that there is a need for nuclear power in this country.

The website says:

“Greens For Nuclear Energy seek to influence the Green movement’s key organisations and institutions”


in favour of nuclear energy because

“We need every available low carbon power source to combat catastrophic climate change”.


They therefore believe that

“the increasingly urgent need to deal decisively with our emerging climate crisis makes continued opposition to nuclear energy irrational for environmentalists and reduces our chances of averting a climate catastrophe.”

Perhaps the noble Baroness would want to go away and look at some of the more sensible members of her own party.

The invasion of Ukraine and the subsequent rise in global energy prices have demonstrated the paramount importance of accelerating our homegrown power and strengthening our national energy security. This is in addition to the significant contribution, as I have just said, that nuclear would make to achieving our net-zero objectives because it is very low carbon. Nuclear technology generates zero direct carbon or other greenhouse gas emissions and has one of the lowest life cycle emission rates among generating technologies. The Committee on Climate Change, the International Energy Agency and the UN Economic Commission for Europe—alongside some sensible Green members—have all highlighted the role that new nuclear electricity generating capacity, in partnership with renewables, can play as part of our diverse energy mix while helping us to achieve net zero.

Great British Nuclear will de-risk new nuclear developments by, among other things, co-funding selected technologies through their development. This will provide greater certainty for investors to develop projects over the long term required to deliver new nuclear generation capacity on to the electricity grid. We intend to fund Great British Nuclear’s initial operating costs via grant in aid. It will be subject to standard NDPB reporting and accountability requirements, which will be set out in Great British Nuclear’s framework document.

The terms of investment in development projects will be bespoke and negotiated on an individual basis. The key goal will be to deliver on the Government’s commitment to increase nuclear energy capacity in Britain, while of course ensuring, as always, value for money for the taxpayer and the bill payer. We are legislating to ensure that Great British Nuclear has the long-term operational mandate needed to carry out the role that government intend for it. The amendments set out the framework within which Great British Nuclear shall operate in facilitating the deployment of nuclear reactors in Britain.

I spoke earlier about the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Kerr. The EII support levy, like the other measures in the British Industry Supercharger, would simply constitute a rebalancing of existing electricity costs away from EIIs and on to other energy users, who have traditionally received more protection from higher energy prices than some in industry.

At the end of these debates, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed. In particular, I thank my colleague in the other place, Andrew Bowie, for guiding the Bill through the House of Commons. I also thank the department’s Bill team and all the other policy and legal officials across various government departments who have been involved in this huge and landmark piece of legislation. They who have worked tirelessly to deliver it. I particularly thank the House authorities, parliamentary staff, clerks and doorkeepers, and all noble Lords who have contributed to the evolution of this landmark Bill.

Offshore Wind

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 11th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness asks a very good question. Eleven tidal stream projects were consented in this allocation round, totalling about 41 megawatts. The price for that is currently higher but we need to develop this technology. I hope, as has been the case with offshore wind, that if we continue to let more CfDs the price will continue to come down over time. That was one area of the round that was successful.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, given the Government’s monumental failure—and they were warned about it, as has been said around this House—to attract any interest whatever from the energy sector in their recent CfD bidding process for offshore wind projects, can we assume there will not be any similar complacency when it comes to developing onshore wind projects, which, in light of the current failure, must now be the Government’s priority towards achieving net zero?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Again, there is no complacency. I understand that there are many projects wanting the go-ahead, but we must be careful in making sure that the consumer gets a fair deal. Lots were consented to last year; I am sure that lots will be consented to in the future. The noble Lord talks about onshore wind. I am pleased to tell him that 24 onshore wind projects were consented to and were successful in this round, totalling 888 megawatts.

Decarbonisation

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Thursday 13th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness is asking me to comment on tax policies and hypothecation of taxes, which are matters in the purview of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I shall make sure her views are communicated to him.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government’s IDDI consultation, which the noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, referred to, sets out four levels that are being considered. The Government make a firm statement about their policies achieving levels 1 and 2. With level 3, the Government say that they are minded to achieve it. As for level 4, which is about achieving the UK’s decarbonisation objectives, the Government say that they may commit to it. When can we expect decisive leadership so that we commit to achieving all four of these IDDI objectives?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I am slightly disappointed by the tone of the question. We are already showing decisive leadership: we are one of the only countries in the world to already have green procurement strategies for major public procurement. This is a complicated area, as has been illustrated by the questions from the noble Lord’s own Benches. We need to make sure that we get it right and do not disadvantage British industries or drive up the cost for consumers.

Cement Industry: Carbon Dioxide

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 12th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

That is one of technologies we are looking at. We also gave £3.2 million to the Mineral Products Association to develop a low-carbon fuel mix for cement. It held a trial at Hanson’s Ribblesdale plant and Tarmac’s Tunstead plant using a mix of 100% net-zero fuels, including hydrogen.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I too agree with the Minister that the concrete industry accounts for approximately 1.5% of emissions in this country. Globally, the figure rises to 8%, as the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, said. Last year, a report from the Low Carbon Concrete Group suggested that the UK concrete industry could become a carbon sink by the 2040s. Welcome though this prediction is, we must recognise that this is a global problem. What steps are the Government taking to encourage other countries to set out and achieve similarly ambitious goals?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Both the Liberal Democrats and Labour agreeing with me is destroying my credibility on this side of the House. I agree with the noble Lord; we are seeking to work with other countries as well. One of the issues in the sector, as we look to reform the ETS, is carbon leakage. We must make sure we do all we can to avoid it.

Electricity Capacity (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 5th July 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for setting out the instrument and giving us advance warning that more is to come shortly. The capacity market is at the heart of maintaining a secure and reliable electricity system. It provides all forms of electricity capacity on a system during periods of electricity shortage and stress, such as when it is extremely cold or when the wind is low while demand is high. As the Minister said, the capacity market works by allowing eligible bidders to compete in T-1 or T-4 auctions on a one-year or four-year basis ahead of when they must deliver capacity. A successful bidder is awarded a capacity agreement which requires delivery during times of stress.

As the Minister said, this instrument makes changes to three areas of regulation. First, Regulation 10 of the 2014 regulations obliges the Secretary of State to set out whether capacity auctions are to be held. The change will require the Secretary of State to publish a decision only if the Government determine that an auction will not be held, helping to improve administrative efficiency. Does this effectively enrol a current capacity provider into the scheme automatically?

Secondly, Regulation 34 of the 2014 regulations allows capacity providers to seek termination of their capacity agreement with a view to becoming eligible to participate in the contracts for difference scheme. I think the Minister said that they are mutually exclusive as things stand. Currently, the LCCC, as the counterparty, has to give notice of such an intention. However, it cannot know in advance if the CMU will be successful in its bid for a contract for difference.

This instrument means that notice comes from a capacity provider seeking termination of their capacity agreement in order to become eligible to apply in a contract for difference allocation round. How many capacity providers have thus far been unable to use the process set out in Regulation 34? The Minister may say all of them, but how many would have wanted to use the termination process? Have the Government made any assessment of the impact of this, and will this change be kept under review?

Thirdly, I turn to Regulation 41 of the 2014 regulations. Capacity providers can be financially penalised, as the Minister said, if they fail to provide capacity in times of stress. Currently, the settlement body has 21 days to calculate the relevant penalty and to invoice capacity providers which must pay such penalties. This instrument increases the timeframe to 35 days. Does that mean that penalties that should have been paid were previously missed because they were not calculated in time? If so, could the Minister indicate the value of those? By contrast, is this change expected to increase the number and value of penalties that are enforced? I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

First, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Naseby and Lord Lennie, and the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, for their valuable contributions on an important subject for the nation’s electricity supplies.

As I mentioned in my introduction, the capacity market is our main mechanism for ensuring the security of electricity supply. To address the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, I say that it has already secured the majority of Great Britain’s capacity needs right out to 2026-27, because the Government take no chances with the security of supply. We continue to believe that the capacity market is an effective insurance mechanism, providing secure and affordable electricity that families and businesses can rely on.

The capacity market is, indeed, tried and tested. The fact that it has supported investment in just under 17.5 gigawatts of new-build, flexible capacity since its introduction demonstrates that it can bring forward the capacity needed to meet future peak demand and replace older capacity as it retires and as we transition to a net-zero economy.

Furthermore, we continue to take steps to ensure its ongoing, efficient and effective operation. The Government are committed to ensuring that the right policy tools are in place for delivering a secure and affordable electricity system as we transition to net zero. That includes regularly assessing the performance of the capacity market and, as we are debating today, exploring improvements to the scheme.

As we noted in our 2023 government response to the capacity market consultation, we have set out a two-phased approach for reforms in the capacity market. This instrument seeks to implement purely technical amendments under the first phase to improve the administrative arrangements. In the next phase of reforms to the capacity market, the Government intend to undertake further analysis and development on the remaining proposals prior to taking a final decision on implementation. This includes proposals to align the capacity market with net zero, such as reducing the emission intensity limits for new-build plants and enabling low-carbon capacity with low capital expenditure to access multi-year agreements.

We will also look ahead to the future as part of the review of electricity market arrangements programme. REMA is exploring options to create an electricity market design that will enable us to transition efficiently from fossil fuels to renewables and other forms of low-carbon generation, which I hope will make us more resilient to overseas energy shocks and ensure energy security.

COP 28

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point, although it is slightly off the topic of the COP 28 agenda. We are incredibly proud of the massive contribution of £11.6 billion that this Government are making towards international climate finance, helping those very countries. The wider issue of debt relief is also important and will be taken forward by international development colleagues.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government have already set out some of their priorities for COP 28, one of which is to actively follow up on the phase-down of coal and the phase-out of all fossil fuels. The recent words of COP 28 president Sultan Al Jaber have been widely interpreted as meaning using carbon capture and storage to capture CO₂ emissions and not completely phase out fossil fuels. What consideration have the Government given to these remarks and what steps have been taken to address them?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point, citing the chairman of COP. The reality is that there will still be a requirement for fossil fuels in the years to come. There will still be a requirement in the UK, which is why we have an ambitious programme —we are spending £20 billion on carbon capture usage and storage. That still enables emissions to take place but of course they will be captured and stored back underground.

Non-Domestic Alternative Fuel Payment Application Scheme Pass-through Requirement Regulations 2023

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 16th May 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, for their repeated comments from previous similar discussions.

This instrument provides for pass-through requirements on intermediaries in respect of non-domestic alternative fuel payments in Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The Energy Prices Act enables energy support schemes to help households and businesses with energy costs for winter 2022 and future periods. As we have heard, this scheme will provide a single £150 payment to non-domestic users of alternative fuels in Great Britain and Northern Ireland. In Great Britain, payments are made to non-domestic premises in an off-grid postcode. In Northern Ireland, payments are enabled to on and off-grid postcodes.

Intermediaries are individuals in receipt of a scheme payment who, under these regulations, should pass on the payment in a “just and reasonable” way to end users. If this is less than the full amount, the intermediaries must justify the reduction to end users. This must be made in writing within 30 days of the scheme’s benefit being provided and payment made as soon as reasonably practicable. That is all well and good so far.

However, as we have asked of previous pass-through schemes, what is the remedy if this plan is not followed? How can an end user challenge the reduction in a payment or a delay in receiving either the full or reduced payment? There is no mechanism to enforce these regulations, as the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, said. Of course, most intermediaries will comply with the requirements built into the scheme but that does not achieve the policy objective that requires all intermediaries to do so.

We do not oppose these regulations but they fall down because no one actually has to do anything about them to ensure full compliance. There is a theoretical remedy through the civil courts, as the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, said, but how does an end user who has not been notified that they are due a payment mount a claim for such a payment to be made? Just because the Government have made corresponding regulations for other comparable schemes does not justify doing so again here. Labour and other opposition parties have previously raised this concern about effective enforcement and the Government have batted it away—and no doubt will do so again here today. But a scheme that relies upon people acting in a just and reasonable way without the means to ensure that they will do so is not a foolproof scheme but a best-endeavours scheme. Its success cannot be measured by less than 100% effectiveness. What does the Minister say on that?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank my noble friend Lady McIntosh, and the noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Lennie, for their comments.

This instrument is necessary to ensure the proper delivery of the non-domestic alternative fuel payment scheme by allowing support to reach those who need it. The scheme is already in place and delivering much-needed support to non-domestic consumers across the UK. The scheme supports a wide range of businesses and other non-domestic consumers that are not connected to the gas grid. As I said, it is delivering a payment of £150, thereby helping businesses and organisations that rely on alternative fuels to meet their eligible costs. Most eligible customers should have already received their £150 payment by the end of March as a credit from their electricity suppliers. Where these payments were received by an intermediary, the pass-through regulations that we previously made ensure that they passed it on to the end users in a just and reasonable way. Although a relatively small proportion of businesses and organisations are entitled to a top-up payment, these payments are also important in ensuring that those consumers are not left behind and receive support comparable to those received by consumers on the gas grid and who have benefited from other schemes.

We opened an application service for the top-up payment on 20 March, and we are processing payments as quickly as possible. In addition to the top-up payment, we provided a route for customers to apply for the basic £150 payment in the limited circumstances where it was not possible for them to receive it through an electricity supplier. These regulations ensure that in all these circumstances, where a payment is made following an application, end-users benefit from the requirement that intermediaries pass on that support in a just and reasonable way. It is a case of extending the safeguards already in place for the earlier part of the scheme to payments made following an application.

On the specific points made in the debate, the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, asked about the duration of the support and the latest report from the JCSI. We are providing one-off payments to eligible businesses and organisations to ensure comparable support to that received by on-grid customers who have benefited from the energy bill relief scheme, and we are in the process of issuing payments to applicants. In response to the noble Baroness’s point about the JCSI’s comments on enforcement, also raised by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, our view remains, as the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, correctly predicted, that there is little value in establishing a formal enforcement mechanism. However, we believe that it is important to include a provision on pass-through of information, as most intermediaries will comply with this.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, asked how successful the existing pass-through arrangements have been. We are not aware of any significant issues in the delivery of this scheme or the pass-through arrangements. Nevertheless, the scheme remains in progress, and we will continue to keep it under review and respond to any issues as they arise. As the scheme is still in progress, we are not yet in a position to say precisely how many businesses will benefit, but we believe that around 400,000 end-users will receive some level of payment under the scheme. That is a considerable amount of support.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

Is that the payment to intermediaries, who are expected to pass it on, or is it the payment received by end-users?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

It would be the end-users, irrespective of whether they received it directly or via an intermediary.

As I said, we have published extensive guidance for both the intermediary and the end-user to ensure that they know their obligations and entitlements. Although we are mindful of the comments that we have received regarding these and previous pass-through regulations, in our view it is important that the non-domestic alternative fuel payment is delivered consistently as one coherent scheme. As these regulations cover only a small part of a much wider scheme that is already in place, it is right that we maintain essentially the same approach followed in the previous regulations for other parts of the scheme. Nevertheless, we will continue to update and publicise the guidance on GOV.UK to ensure that end-users and intermediaries understand their rights and obligations. I therefore commend these regulations to the Committee.

Climate Change: Net Zero Strategy

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 3rd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point. I know he has a lot of experience in this area and he is right to point out the scale of the task. It is an immense challenge to be done over many years; none of this happens overnight. Some of the wind farms that are coming on stream this year were planned a decade ago; it all takes time to do, but over the next 20 or 30 years we need to make progress towards those goals. They are legally binding, so we need to meet them and we are on track to do so.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, following the Minister’s answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, the Government are currently way off track to meet their sixth carbon budget for 2033 to 2037. This is a crucial period once the low-hanging fruit has all been picked. What additional measures are the Government considering to ensure that the harder to abate sectors deliver the necessary reductions in large-scale emissions in order to ensure we meet our net-zero targets?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The sixth carbon budget goes through to 2038. We have set out policies to meet— I think—about 97% of the targets under that and we have a number of other policies that are so far unquantified. In essence, the noble Lord is right, of course. As we make faster progress—and we are making very swift progress—the targets become more difficult to meet: but I am confident that we can do so.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

3rd reading
Monday 24th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, I will update the House on the legislative consent Motion process for the Energy Bill. The UK Government are seeking legislative consent Motions from the devolved legislatures for the Bill, in line with the Sewel convention. My officials are working with devolved government officials and will continue to do so throughout the Bill’s passage.

The Scottish Government have requested amendments to the Bill and are currently withholding support for legislative consent. We will of course continue to work with them regarding their concerns. The Welsh Government have not yet laid a legislative consent memorandum. It is not possible at present to obtain a legislative consent Motion from the Northern Ireland Assembly, but the UK Government are engaging with officials in the Northern Ireland Civil Service. The UK Government welcome the interest that the devolved Governments have shown in the Energy Bill and will continue to work closely with them on proposed changes in order to progress legislative consent Motions for the Bill.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, this huge Bill leaves the House in far better shape than when it arrived. A combination of Labour, the Liberal Democrats, other parties, individuals and, most importantly, Cross-Benchers have secured measures that should see ISOP’s independence assured, community energy export markets develop, warmer homes and an efficiency plan to achieve that, the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority strengthened, and the ceasing of any further coal mining in this country—thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson. It is to be hoped that the Government will support these changes in the other place and will not bring this Bill back for ping-pong. The range of supporters across the House should be sufficient to convince the Minister to back the changes to the Bill made by this House.

In the meantime, my thanks go to the Minister—remarkably, he has stayed the course while his Government have changed leadership three times and his Secretary of State twice since we began in September 2022—and his advisers from BEIS, and subsequently DESNZ, who have continually briefed and been available to answer questions and clarify intentions as we wended our way through this tome of a Bill.

My appreciation goes to my noble friend Lady Blake for her continuing support and to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on the Liberal Democrat Benches, with whom it has been a pleasure to work on the Bill. My thanks are also due to a number of Back-Benchers and Cross-Benchers, mainly drawn from the Peers for the Planet group, particularly including the noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale, the noble Baronesses, Lady Hayman, Lady Boycott, Lady Bennett and Lady Worthington—sadly temporarily departed from this House—and my noble friend Lord Whitty. Thanks also go to the House staff and the doorkeepers for arrangements during delays in advancement of the progress of the Bill, which were not of their making, and for keeping the quick-quick-slow dance rhythm to the Energy Bill.

My biggest thanks go to the remarkable Milton Brown in Labour’s legislative team of advisers for always being up to date with the progress of the Bill, for his liaison with the other place and for his political briefings and judgment, which allowed my noble friend Lady Blake and me to keep focused on this Bill over a long period. We wish it well on the next stage of its journey.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Report stage
Monday 17th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, my understanding is that the Minister will confirm the Government’s support for an independent ISOP, as suggested by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and this being the case, we know no longer need to divide the House on our amendments. So, rather than listening to me putting forward the argument in favour of achieving this, I think we would be better served to listen to the Minister in his reasoning for an independent ISOP: I thank him for his time over the weekend, when we reached this position.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

Let me first thank all noble Lords for their amendments, and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, for the time he gave to discussing this matter. As always, there were valuable contributions from all parts of the House.

On the details of the amendments, Amendment 60, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, seeks to establish an industry-led advisory board for the ISOP. In the original consultation, the respondents strongly indicated that the body should be independent of energy sector interests, and I think that is a view shared by the Opposition. The Government therefore remain concerned that inserting in legislation a formal oversight role, as is being suggested, will place decision-making back in the hands of the energy sector and go against the reasons and mechanism for creating an independent ISOP in the first place. This could make the ISOP risk-averse or unwilling to take action that is potentially challenging to market participants but could be on the side of consumers, even if that action might be beneficial to the system itself.

We are therefore concerned that, rather than enhancing independence, members of such an advisory board would likely hold various energy sector conflicts. There are many ways this could crystallise, including resistance to systemic reform, more strident advice in favour of compensation for energy sector participants, or incumbent bias, for instance seeking to frustrate new market entrants which could stifle the innovation that I think everyone, in all parts of the House, is agreed that we need to reach net zero.

Establishing an industry-led advisory board for the ISOP would be similar to establishing one for, for instance, the Climate Change Committee—an organisation which, in our view, also needs to remain independent of industry interests. I hope noble Lords would agree that we need genuine, independent, expert thinking, rather than vested interests. Thankfully, this amendment is not required to ensure board independence; the Government intend to require that a number of sufficiently independent directors—or SIDs, to use the acronym—sit on the ISOP’s board. A SID is a board member who meets certain criteria to ensure that, as well as being skilled, knowledgeable and experienced, they are impartial, with restrictions including on certain shareholdings in the energy industry. Requirements in the ISOP’s licence will set a minimum number of SIDs to ensure that the ISOP’s board has strong representation from those outside the ISOP and is unconflicted by the interests of the energy industry.

To ensure effective scrutiny of the appointment of the ISOP’s chair, we are also asking the Office of the Commissioner for Public Appointments and the new departmental Select Committee, once established, to conduct pre-appointment scrutiny. Energy sector experts will have opportunities to input to the ISOP’s work, of course. For instance, the system operator’s business plan submissions, assessed by Ofgem, will continue to be open to consultation with market participants, including members of the specific industry forums mentioned in this amendment. Finally, through its price control process, Ofgem will ensure that the FSO is fully resourced to fulfil its objectives and obligations, including the funding of its statutory duties towards consumers, energy security and net zero.

Turning to Amendments 59 and 62, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, again we agree with the sentiment of the noble Lord’s amendments, and the Government remain resolute that the ISOP shall be an independent public body. We continue to act to make this so. However, it is critical that the ISOP remains a dynamic organisation capable of adapting and evolving to the future conditions of the energy sector. I therefore hope the noble Lord will agree with me that it is preferable not to constrain the ISOP pre-emptively in legislation at this fairly early stage but to maintain some flexibility. With the rapid deployment expected in the energy sector, reasonable circumstances may arise in which the ISOP is well placed to take on some future energy sector role or interest.

Regarding the specifics of Amendment 62, I believe there are already significant controls and limits upon the Secretary of State in acting as the sole shareholder. These will include limits in the framework agreement, which we will of course make public. These controls will ensure that the ISOP’s operational independence is protected.

Legislating for the ISOP to “be independent” does not, in my view, appear to offer a material benefit beyond the controls already established in Part 4 of the Bill and the framework documents, but it risks preventing the intended corporate composition of the ISOP, thereby undermining its effectiveness.

Finally, on Amendment 61, also tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, the Government agree that it will be important to ensure that the ISOP is fully resourced to fulfil the objectives and obligations set out in its licence. In our view, the most effective funding mechanism to achieve this and realise our vision for an independent ISOP is for it to be funded by consumers through price control arrangements, much like the current gas and electricity system operators are today.

Levies placed on licensed bodies can be expected to filter through to consumers. However, we are concerned that the requirement to establish an audit board risks duplication with the current well-understood and transparent regulatory model established under Ofgem. Without a price control process run by the regulator, there is also a risk of poor consumer value for money. As with other regulated bodies in this sector, the ISOP will have the operational freedom it needs to manage and organise itself to effectively deliver its roles and objectives. We also intend the ISOP to sit outside the regime of Cabinet Office controls on spending, which bodies funded by taxes and levies are required to operate under.

With the explanations and reassurances that I have been able to provide, I hope that noble Lords will agree not to press their amendments.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Report stage
Tuesday 28th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, my thanks to noble Lords who have spoken in the debate: the noble Lords, Lord Ravensdale and Lord Teverson, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Hayman, Lady Altmann and Lady Bennett. I will quickly review what I think they said and set out our amendment.

The noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale, set out the principal purpose for the Bill. Split in four ways, it will: increase energy systems’

“resilience and reliability … support the delivery of the UK’s climate change commitments … reform the UK’s energy system while minimising costs to consumers and protecting them from unfair pricing”,

and improve the overall efficiency of the UK energy system and economy. It also requires an annual report to Parliament on the above. The first three of those points are lifted directly from the opening paragraph of the Explanatory Notes, while the fourth is also an objective of the ISOP simply made wider.

Labour tabled an amendment in Committee, and I will remind noble Lords of its contents. The context of that was, at that time, the cost of living crisis; the energy price cap was going up to £3,549 per year. National Energy Action predicted that the number of UK households in fuel poverty would rise to 8.9 million. Tory leadership candidates at that time were vying for leadership to be Prime Minister but were running away from the issue of net zero; the High Court found that the net-zero climate strategy was inadequate, and the Climate Change Committee found that credible plans existed for only 39% of emissions, citing “major policy failures” and “scant evidence of delivery”. As regards energy security at that time, gas prices were expected to surge to record highs the week after the Nord Stream 1 pipeline was shut down, and European prices had risen by nearly 400% over the past year. The UK relies on gas for about 40% of its power generation, and even more on the coldest days when demand is high and wind generation tends to be low. In 2017, a BEIS report included a scenario for a complete cut-off of Russian gas and found that the UK could see “significant unmet demand” if the cut was prolonged and continental European countries paid whatever was necessary.

However, the Bill is a hotchpotch of things thrown together, lacking an overarching theme to tackle these issues. Our amendments would have set out a purpose for the Act, increasing resilience and reliability; supporting the delivery of UK’s climate change commitments; reforming energy systems; binding the Secretary of State and public authorities to these purposes; requiring the Secretary of State to designate a statement as a strategy and policy statement with regard to the purpose of the Act; and requiring the Secretary of State to review the strategy and policy statement on a five-year basis. That would have forced successive Governments into long-term thinking about the specific purpose, not limiting the impact and ambition of the Bill to what has been tacked together, which simply does not go far enough or tackle the immediate problems.

The amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, would place gas and electricity markets under a duty to assist in the delivery of net zero, and our amendment would require the Secretary of State to designate a statement giving GEMA a mandate for considering the role of energy in supporting government policy in achieving net zero. The amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, would include in Ofgem’s general duties a specific requirement to have regard to meeting the UK’s net-zero emissions.

Briefing from RenewableUK sets out the argument for Ofgem remit reform. It states:

“Ofgem’s remit has not changed since its establishment in 2000, and does not prioritise electricity decarbonisation”—


in line with recent government legislation or stated ambitions. It has only a consideration of greenhouse reduction. It continues:

“As a result, Ofgem has been unable to substantially reform its working practices and regulatory frameworks in response to the 2008 Climate Change Act and the UK’s subsequent net zero ambition, to detriment of renewable energy investment and decarbonisation pace.”


It goes on to say that the Government have an opportunity to reform Ofgem’s remit in the Bill we are addressing today.

There is some key evidence for that. Mike Thompson, the Climate Change Committee’s chief economist, noted the integration of energy with transport and heat, including the potential for

“cars sitting on driveways acting as batteries and putting electricity back into the grid”.

He argued that there is a

“need for real integration and a regulator that can think from a systems perspective”,

suggesting that hydrogen and heat networks should be within Ofgem’s remit.

Jonathan Brearley, chief executive of Ofgem, said:

“Planning the system and setting how it evolves should not really be done by the regulator. The regulator’s job is to make sure that that is done efficiently and effectively by the companies concerned.”


We appreciate that argument.

A number of witnesses told the committee that the net-zero target should be included explicitly within Ofgem’s statutory duties. Dr Hardy said that he would

“put net zero up top”,

balancing out its other duties against the context of

“hitting that legislated carbon target”.

Professor Mitchell said that

“net zero has to be the raison d’être of Ofgem”

and argued that

“delivering on legally enshrined commitments to decarbonise”

should form part of Ofgem’s principal duty.

The committee concluded:

“To ensure that, on an enduring basis, the appropriate focus is given to net zero within its competing priorities, we recommend that Ofgem’s duties should be amended to include explicit reference to having due regard to the net zero target. While Ofgem maintains that net zero considerations already factor into its decision-making, adding net zero explicitly to its statutory duties will serve to make this clear.”


We feel that the UK needs not to be left behind but to show similar ambition in its plans for the future of the electricity industry, including Ofgem’s remit.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

First, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, and the noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale, for bringing forward Amendments 1 and 136 and the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, for his contribution to the debate. As I set out in Committee, although the Government believe these amendments are well intentioned, ultimately, they are unnecessary. First, the Bill has a clear purpose, so I do not think any introductory clauses are necessary. Where appropriate, the Bill already sets out fairly clear objectives and general duties for the Secretary of State and other specified bodies in carrying out their functions under the relevant parts.

Secondly, in regard to an annual report, I assume noble Lords are aware that the Energy Act 2013 introduced the power for the designation of a strategy and policy statement that sets out the Government’s strategic priorities for energy policy, the roles and responsibilities of those implementing such policy, and the policy outcomes that we want to see achieved. We have committed to a second statutory consultation this spring. I therefore believe that an annual report to Parliament would cause unnecessary duplication of the existing strategy and policy statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, this amendment would allow two other low-carbon fuels to be supported under the existing and forthcoming renewable transport fuel schemes. As we have heard, these are recycled carbon fuels and nuclear-derived fuels. While the noble Lord has created a degree of happiness with the noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale, some unhappiness still exists around the Chamber. These fuels can provide similar carbon emissions savings to the renewable fuels already considered under these schemes. Furthermore, these fuels are crucial for the production of sustainable aviation fuel, which is imperative to achieving the jet zero strategy and fulfilling the forthcoming sustainable aviation fuel mandate.

I will not speak for long on this, because we want to move on, but this amendment would insert a new clause in Chapter 3 of Part 3 of the Bill, providing for recycled carbon fuel and fuel derived from nuclear energy to be treated as renewable transport fuel. Amendment 74, in the name of my noble friend Lord Whitty, would make it clear that the regulator needs to ensure that consumers of heat networks have equivalent consumer protection to those of other suppliers. The Explanatory Notes say of Clause 166:

“This clause provides that GEMA will be the regulator for heat networks in England, Wales and Scotland. The Secretary of State may introduce regulations to appoint a different regulator by affirmative procedure. The regulator in Northern Ireland will be the Northern Ireland Authority for Utility Regulation (NIAUR) subject to a similar power to make changes by secondary legislation.”


I think that is something we can all agree with.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. Before I engage in the detail of the amendments, let me respond to the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett. I am sure I have never said that we should not listen to scientists; of course we should, but we should accept that there are sometimes different scientific opinions. I notice that the noble Baroness is very keen to listen to scientists on some occasions, but the Greens are totally opposed to listening to the vast majority of scientists who say that nuclear should provide an essential way of decarbonising the country’s economy.

By way of example, perhaps she would like to look at the mess her Green friends have got themselves into in Germany by their irrational objections to nuclear policy: they have ended up, now that they are in government, supporting the eradication of villages to open more lignite mines, the dirtiest form of coal production, because they got rid of all their nuclear capacity. Obviously they could not have predicted the gas shortages that would come along, but this is the problem you get yourself into with idealistic policies without any practical effect in the real world. Thankfully, I do not think there is any chance of the noble Baroness or her party being in government in the UK to make similar errors and mistakes.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Report stage
Tuesday 28th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and all other noble Lords and Baronesses who have spoken. While I may agree with the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, that these trials are not a good thing, they are upon us and therefore we have to deal with what we face rather than what we might not have faced had we stopped the trials in the first place. I do not think the Government are about to abandon the plan, and therefore we have some concerns about the plan as it goes ahead.

Clause 111 makes certain modifications to the Gas Act 1986 so that the person running the trial has clear grounds to enter property. That causes me concern that they can carry out essential works and safety checks and disconnect gas supply. Can the Minister deal with some questions? He may not be able to deal with them tonight and may want to write to me later. When can property be entered? What safeguards will be in place? What burden of proof will be applied on entry? When can a property not be entered? Will future guidance be published and, if so, when can we expect it to be with us? The Labour amendment

“requires the Secretary of State to take a number of steps with regard to the areas and people affected by hydrogen grid conversion trials and to make arrangements for Ofgem to provide information, alternative heat sources and offer the right of opt out (which would disapply the right of gas transporters to enter premises to disconnect). It would also require the Environment Agency to monitor and report on hydrogen escape, and the Health and Safety Executive to monitor safety implications.”

Subsection (1) provides the Secretary of State with a power to make regulations by statutory instrument to require a person conducting the trial to follow specified steps to ensure consumers are appropriately informed about the trial and the need for them to be disconnected from their gas supply before it happens. This clause also provides the Secretary of State with a power to make regulations to introduce consumer protections for people who are, or are likely to be, affected by the trial, and a list of examples is provided.

Our amendment sets out a number of reasonable steps, ensures that people are not disadvantaged, whether they participate or take an alternative, and ensures an alternative is offered and they can opt out. The trials are much more popular in Redcar, I am led to believe, than they are in Whitby. An exchange of correspondence took place between Graham Stuart, the Minister at DESNZ, and Justin Madders MP and Louise Gittens, who is the leader of Cheshire West and Chester Council. To quote from the letter from Graham Stuart, he said:

“I fully agree that local support for the trial is essential … However, we will only go ahead with a trial in an area where there is strong local support … I do agree it is very important this context is set out clearly, particularly for the communities in the areas across the country served by the gas networks which the networks are assessing.”


If that is true, certainly in Whitby, I do not think a trial will proceed, but I may be wrong. I would welcome the Minister’s assessment of the correspondence and what he makes of it in relation to the trial. It is not so much about cost, although there is a cost, and it is not so much about safety, although there is a safety issue; it is about local democracy and whether they want the thing to go ahead in the first place.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords who have contributed. I start by addressing the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Lennie. This is a matter for which I have ministerial responsibility, so I am familiar with all the issues. I too am getting, not a massive stream of correspondence, but a lot of correspondence from the people in the two trial areas. I have met Justin Madders, the MP for the Whitby trial area, Ellesmere Port, and of course I know Jacob Young very well from Redcar. The point that Graham Stuart made in that letter is still absolutely valid. We are waiting for the submissions of the two rival networks, which we should receive later this month. A lot is happening this week; it is a busy week. One of the factors that we will carefully take into consideration is precisely the point that Graham Stuart set out in his letter: the degree to which there is local support. Clearly, one way to measure that is to talk to the local Members of Parliament and the local authorities; that will be critical in any decision-making.

Let me also address the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, on the costs of the trial. I cannot give the noble Baroness an overall cost yet because we have not received the final submissions from the networks, but I can say that consumers in the trial location will not be expected to pay more for their heating than they would have if they had remained on natural gas. They will also not be expected to pay for the installation and maintenance of either any hydrogen-capable appliances or any alternative heating option that they wish to go for.

Let me now address Amendments 53, 54 and 57, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson and the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan. As noble Lords will know, decarbonising heat in buildings and industry is essential if we are to deliver net zero. One of the great things about this country, but also one of our problems, is the massive diversity and age of buildings in the UK, as a product mainly of the industrial revolution, and the diverse consumer needs. I think most reasonable people would accept that no single solution can provide the best option for everyone. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, that the majority of the solution will probably be electrification, but there will be some properties for which it is not suitable.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I know the noble Baroness has strong views on electrification but let me reassure her that this is precisely the purpose of the trial. We need to use an existing network to find out what happens to hydrogen in an existing network. Clearly, environmental monitoring and checking for leaks and so on is a crucial part of it. It is one of the reasons we need to do it on an existing network in an existing community, to find out what happens outside of theoretical lab experiments where it is very easy to set up a trial with new pipework, new valves and new equipment. I have visited hydrogen demonstration houses up in Gateshead, my home area. It works very well but these are brand new properties, constructed with hydrogen appliances and new pipework. That is not a very good trial as to how it would work in the real world in existing communities. That is why we need to do the trial. The things that the noble Baroness asked about are exactly what we need to be checking and monitoring to judge the effectiveness of any hydrogen experiments in the real world.

I turn to Amendment 56, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Lennie and Lord Teverson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan. This amendment covers several aspects which I fully agree are important for the safe and effective delivery of the village trial. However, I assure noble Lords that the evidence that this amendment seeks to gather through a statutory consultation is already being gathered and will be reviewed by the department as part of our assessment process, following the submission of final proposals at the end of this month. As I said, in May 2022, we sent a joint letter with Ofgem to the gas networks setting out an extensive list of requirements that proposals for the trial should meet. This included requirements mentioned in the amendment, such as local support, costs, environmental impact and consumer protections, as well as many other important areas.

After the gas networks submit their proposals for the trial—later this week, as I said—the department will undertake a thorough assessment against the full list of requirements set out in the letter. That process will involve expert input from the various statutory bodies involved, including the Health and Safety Executive and Ofgem. We will publish the result of that assessment later this year, including the relevant evidence to explain our decision, and that will be available to all noble Lords. I reassure the House that we fully understand the importance of conducting the trial properly.

I touched on this earlier but the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, raised the point about local support for the trial. I reiterate that we will go ahead with a trial only in an area where there is strong local support. The gas networks are working closely with local authorities, communities and Members of Parliament as they develop their trial proposals. My officials also meet regularly with the relevant local authorities. Final proposals for the trial will need to contain evidence of strong support from the local community, validated by an independent external source, such as a local council. Again, I am happy to meet the local Members of Parliament.

The networks are extensively consulting local residents to develop an attractive consumer offer tailored to the community. They have opened drop-in centres in both Whitby and Redcar where anyone can engage directly with them and ask questions about what the project means for them, and have held a number of public events.

Safety is of course fundamental, which is the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan. Before any community trial can go ahead, the Health and Safety Executive will need to be satisfied that the trial will be run safely. No trial will go ahead until all necessary safety assessments have been successfully carried out. I hope noble Lords will accept my reassurances on that.

If it goes ahead, the trial will start in 2025 and provide vital evidence that will be required to enable the Government to make decisions in 2026 on any potential future role for hydrogen in decarbonising heat. I hope noble Lords will accept that undertaking another formal consultation would duplicate the work that the department and the gas networks are already doing, and could delay important milestones for ultimately meeting net zero.

I agree that the trial must be conducted properly, and I have already spoken about the additional consumer protections that will be in place for the trial. Those protections, which must be met by the gas networks, also mean that the trial must be delivered with minimal disruption to consumers.

I hope I have been able to reassure noble Lords that the department will carefully consider all these factors in coming to a decision on the trial. Importantly, we will be closely examining the evidence and outcomes of the gas networks’ engagement with local authorities and consumers in the trial areas. I hope that, with the reassurances that I have been able to provide, the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, will consider withdrawing his amendment.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

Could the Minister please write to me about the questions I asked about entering properties and whether further guidance will be published and available?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As I said, the powers that we propose to provide are essentially similar to those that the networks already have on the basis of essential safety works. Still, I am happy to provide the noble Lord with further information and details.

Electricity Supplier Obligations (Green Excluded Electricity) (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 20th March 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his thorough explanation of the regulations and the noble Baronesses, Lady McIntosh and Lady Hamwee, for their contributions and questions, which the Minister will no doubt deal with when he comes back.

I will take the reverse order from the Minister: I will deal first with the green amendment and then with the energy intensive amendment. Contracts for difference are the main way in which the Government support low-carbon electricity generation projects. While we were in the EU, a supplier could seek a reduction in their liability proportion in the levy by offsetting low-carbon electricity generated in the EU area. The UK is no longer under an obligation to offset any low-carbon electricity generated in the EU area. Following industry consultation—I do not know how thorough it was, or how much there was—removing the green excluded electricity was determined to be the fairest way of proceeding following our exit from the EU. As I understand it, the supplier obligation applies to all licensed suppliers of electricity to pay for the contracts for difference.

The statutory instrument is relatively straightforward: it removes something that was implemented when contracts for difference first became the major instrument of the development of renewals in the UK. It looks to close a potential loophole in state aid regulations. Suppliers importing electricity from Europe should not have that supplier obligation applied to them and the electricity they are bringing in from European sources. As we no longer have responsibilities over state aid, it is no longer appropriate to continue with the arrangement that was dependent on the state aid loophole. In the past, suppliers had to provide proof of power coming in to claim that there was no money to pay, as it were, for that energy coming in. Now the opposite is the case: suppliers will have to provide evidence of what is coming in as a renewable source, via the interconnector, from Europe to ensure that they pay. Can the Minister say why any company would now produce evidence of green energy imports through the interconnector in order to pay? Nothing in the regulations requires that evidence is given so that payment is made, and there is nothing about enforcement action or penalties against bodies which do not provide information to enable future payments to be made.

Also, there is no inversion in place for the relationship between the strike price and the reference price. As I understand it, that means that, instead of normal procedure as far as the contracts for difference in this country are concerned, the supplier does not get a payment from the Government in respect of the strike price. As the reference price is currently above the strike price, the supplier has to pay back into the Low Carbon Contracts Company. The company then has a reasonable obligation to pay back that money to suppliers. So I ask the Minister: are companies now obligated under the SI to pay money into the LCCC for contracts for difference which were pre-exempted, and also to get money from the LCCC when the general strike price is inverted against the reference price?

The energy intensive industry exemption, as the Minister said, provides relief to around 320 electricity-intensive companies in the UK. It launched in 2017, and it needs to be reassessed this year under the scheme’s rules. Following consultation, the Government decided to implement two minor changes to the operation of the scheme. The amendments to the scheme are designed to improve accessibility to the EII scheme and to account for the Covid-19 pandemic period. First, it will allow companies applying under the exemption from the indirect costs of funding contracts for difference, the renewables obligation and the small-scale feed-in tariffs to be able to feed in three of the previous five years for assessment, as the Minister said, in order to account for possible lower trading and electricity usage during the 2020 and 2021 pandemic years. Secondly, it will allow new companies to apply with only one quarter of trading rather than two, as was the case previously.

Labour does not oppose those sensible changes which take account of what happened during the Covid period. Companies will be judged against their present performance rather than that of previous years. It is likely that companies previously exempted from the scheme can now be brought into it. Does the Minister agree with that? Could he comment on the observation made in the other place that the mining of hard coal is on the eligibility list? Given the environmental effects of that industry, it seems at least curious as to why it may be included under the EII scheme.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords for their valuable contributions to the debate. The electricity-intensive industries exemption provides relief for key foundation industries, including companies operating in the steel, paper, chemicals, cement and glass sectors. The scheme also supports emerging sectors ,such as battery manufacturers and companies making semiconductors. The companies this scheme supports are located all over the UK and provide high-paid, good-quality jobs both directly and in the supply chain.

These EII regulations are necessary to improve the operation of the current excluded electricity scheme. They will make it easier for start-ups and new businesses to apply. They will also allow businesses to account for the impact of Covid-19 when reapplying for relief. We will update and publish our guidance on the GOV.UK website to ensure that businesses are aware of these proposed changes, and proactively engage with stakeholders to ensure that they are too.

Following the consultation in spring 2023, we will come forward with our proposals on the recently announced British industry supercharger, which aims to roll out further support to important manufacturing businesses. This will be through exempting firms from certain costs arising from renewable energy obligations, as well as the GB capacity market costs, while also exploring reductions on network charges, which are the costs that industrial users pay for their supply of electricity.

The proposed removal of the green excluded electricity exemptions from the CfD scheme means that a supplier in Great Britain will pay a proportion of the contract for difference scheme cost that is closer to their market share. It will remove a condition placed on the British scheme by the European Commission and ensure that the supplier obligation is applied to GB suppliers in accordance with their market share.

We are proposing these legislative amendments following a public consultation. It generated 28 responses from a cross-section of the energy industry, representative bodies, brokers and other concerned parties, with the policy proposals receiving wide support.

I will move on to the specific questions raised. My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked about redistribution costs, the impact of standing charges, impact assessment and the consultation period. I say to her that, for the EII exemption scheme, any increase in the bills of non-eligible consumers arising from these changes is likely to be extremely minimal. For this reason, it was felt that a new impact assessment was not required. The redistributed cost applies only to the policy cost element of an electricity bill and does not impact or increase the current standing charge.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, asked a number of questions about consultation responses, the number of consultees and the distribution of comment, and about the carbon border adjustment mechanism. The Government’s response to the consultation will be published shortly and it will set out further detail on the distribution of comments received. I can tell the noble Baroness that, in total, there were 64 responses to the EII exemption consultation, including from electricity suppliers, currently eligible businesses and other organisations.

Regarding the distribution of comments, there was significant support for the amendments proposed under this SI, as they improve access to the schemes and ensure that firms are not disadvantaged by the impact of the Covid pandemic. The scheme continues to have a robust process both for initial applications by EIIs and for the required reassessment that an EII needs to go through to continue to receive the exemption. This includes an assessment of the company’s accounts, its electricity bills and any other supporting evidence. As officials are in regular dialogue with firms in the energy-intensive sectors it was felt that, given the relatively minor and technical nature of the changes, five weeks represented a sufficient consultation period. As stated, we will publish our formal response shortly.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, also asked about a carbon border adjustment mechanism. I agree that this could represent an easier solution to the problem of carbon leakage, but I am sure she will accept that it is more of a long-term change. The EU is also looking at it on a longer timescale. We will shortly publish a consultation on a potential CBAM, but I am sure the noble Baroness will realise that there are lots of potential implications of such a mechanism.

Cleaner Energy Technologies

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

No, I think the noble Lord is being too pessimistic, as he often is. We have ambitious projects supporting steel. The noble Lord is right that hydrogen is probably one of the technologies that will be required to decarbonise the steel industry and we are working closely with the industry on that.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, in 2021 the Government set out in guidance a revised approach to valuing greenhouse gas emissions due to the more ambitious goal in the Paris Agreement to limit global temperature rise and the UK’s legal requirement to achieve net zero by 2050. Can the Minister say what steps the Government have taken since this adjustment to ensure that the revised approach is meeting its intended goals?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We give a value to carbon and use that to inform our policies, not least through the ETS. We have supported a number of early-stage technologies. Offshore wind was extremely expensive when we first started supporting it; now it is very cost-competitive and we are confident that we will end up in the same position on hydrogen.

Heat and Buildings Strategy: Gas Boilers

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 28th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am aware of the noble Baroness’s scepticism about hydrogen—we have discussed it a number of times. I agree with her about ground source heat pumps. There are some great, innovative UK companies developing them and we support them under the boiler upgrade scheme.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the Committee stage of the Energy Bill started in September 2022, and we still have not reached Report. Is this delay down to the Government adopting the Labour Party’s suggestions in Committee, which would make targets of the future homes standard and ban the installation of gas boilers in new homes? I guess from the Minister’s response so far that this is not the case. Can he say what is causing the delay?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am sorry to tell the noble Lord that it is nothing to do with the Labour Party’s policies. My responsibilities do not extend to predicting the business of this House. I am sure that the Chief Whip has taken careful note of the noble Lord’s comments.

Domestic Heat Pumps: Budget Underspend

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 28th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As the noble Baroness is aware, we have two potential trial villages at the moment. We will make a decision later this year on which one will be selected, assuming that we get the powers to do so in the Energy Bill. We are still looking very closely at the costs of the trial. They are still to be determined, so I cannot give her an answer yet. The two gas networks are looking at the costs as we speak.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, in addition to the underspend highlighted in the Question by the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, about £2.1 billion remains unspent of the £6.6 billion promised in the Conservative manifesto to be used on energy efficiency and decarbonisation of heat. The think tank E3G puts this down to a lack of effective policies on domestic insulation and decarbonisation. Can the Minister say if and how the Government intend to deliver on that manifesto promise?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord will have to have a little patience and wait for the Chancellor’s spending announcement. As I have said before, there has been no lack of government commitment in this area: we are spending £6.6 billion over this Parliament, and we have already had another £6 billion committed by the Chancellor for energy-efficiency schemes from 2025. It is going well.

Energy Bill Relief Scheme (Non-Standard Cases) Regulations 2023

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 30th January 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

I agree; there is no penalty at all. They just have to pay back the money to the individual that they should have paid in the first place, plus a bit of additional assistance.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I again thank the noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Lennie, for their contributions. As both noble Lords have said, the EBRS Great Britain and Northern Ireland regulations are already in force and delivering support to organisations across the United Kingdom. However, the Government have responded to the concerns of stakeholders to ensure that a further group of non-domestic energy consumers, including some critical to national infrastructure, can also receive support to avoid decreases in production or, even worse, the closure of some businesses. These regulations are essential secondary legislation which is needed to support the delivery and operation of the EBRS non-standard scheme.

The Government remain committed to taking decisive action during this energy crisis to assist the widest possible range of consumers. As well as providing immediate assistance, this relief will support economic growth and limit inflation caused by increasing energy bills and their knock-on impacts on prices, labour, goods and services. We are confident that providing relief via the non-standard cases scheme will help mitigate the risks of closures and redundancies among eligible businesses and ensure that they can continue to operate.

The scheme has been designed to operate robustly and guard against fraud, error and gaming. We will continue to monitor it to ensure that this support is provided to the businesses it is designed to help. The Government remain committed to ensuring that consumers receive help with the rising cost of energy. The regulations are vital in ensuring that support is delivered to those businesses.

I turn to the questions asked by both noble Lords. The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, asked whether the scheme will run for the same period as the standard EBRS. Yes, it runs from 1 October to 31 March. He also asked about passing information to the Secretary of State—whether the department has done this and how it found it. So far, we have found that energy suppliers are providing the information we require to support their claims in a timely manner, which ultimately supports their own customers and end-users.

The noble Lord, Lord Lennie, asked why it applies only until March 2023; that is, the same finishing date as the existing EBDS. Of course, there are substantial costs on the Exchequer. I am sure the Chancellor keeps all these things under review, but at the moment, the scheme ends at that point. The noble Lord also asked whether the EBDS will be fully effective after the EBRS is ended. I assure him that many civil servants in my department are working to ensure that that is exactly the case and that there is a smooth transition between the two schemes.

The noble Lord also asked whether a mistake has been rectified with EBRS. It was not a mistake. We identified that there was a group of businesses supplied with energy by unlicensed suppliers and we have set up this scheme to provide support for those businesses which did not benefit when others benefited because they receive their energy through licensed suppliers. We stood up the scheme as quickly as we possibly could, given all the demands that have been placed on the department from all the other schemes as well.

In response to the noble Lord’s questions about intermediaries, we believe that in those cases, energy providers are working closely with their end-customers to ensure that they are all offered support. Of course, in many cases, these are very big businesses, and we have direct communication with many of the end-customers. Normally, we do not have a problem making sure they realise their eligibility, but we are of course seeking to provide as much information as possible to ensure that they are aware of their rights—although, in those cases, I am sure they are well aware of them themselves.

I think I have dealt with the questions from both noble Lords, and I therefore commend the regulations to the Committee.

Electric Vehicle Battery Production

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 23rd January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, 12 months ago, £100 million was made available by the Government to Britishvolt to help unlock the necessary private finance and the company’s future. Ministers were falling over themselves boasting about how they were supporting 3,000 highly skilled direct jobs and a further 5,000 jobs in the supply chain in the north-east of England. But the money never materialised, and we all now know the consequences. Does this signal the end of the Government’s green industrial revolution, at the expense of these jobs and the key role they would have played in the electric vehicle industry and the wider decarbonisation of the UK’s economy?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

No, is the short answer to the noble Lord’s question. Of course, before we make any government money available, we do the appropriate due diligence. As a result of this work, the funding was designed so that agreed milestones had to be achieved for the company to draw down substantial amounts of taxpayers’ funds. In the event, it was not able to meet those milestones, so the money was not handed over. I am sure the Opposition would like us to be careful with public money. If the alternative had happened and we had handed over the funds and the company had still gone into administration, I am sure the noble Lord would have been on his feet demanding an inquiry into why we had been so careless with public funds.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Committee stage
Monday 16th January 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I will also be brief. I do not want to provoke another debate—two hours on this would be unnecessary. We are all doing our bit by keeping this Room at low temperature in terms of this debate. I do not know whether they can turn the heat up a bit, as I think that would be helpful to all of us.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baronesses, Lady Sheehan and Lady Bennett, are in charge of heating.

Prime Minister: Trade Unions

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 19th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point. It is almost as if the rail unions, in particular, are seeking to punish the public at this difficult time and exploit the monopoly position that they have to make life as difficult as possible for people wanting to join their friends and family for Christmas. It is appalling behaviour.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, on Tuesday the UK quarter 3 growth figures will be published. They are expected to show that the economy has contracted by 0.2%, as well as real falls in household disposable income as wage increases fail to match inflation. These pressures on working people will have a severe impact, with families already cutting back on food and heat. What discussions have the Government had with the trade unions on policy options which will give families the support they will need to get through the crisis in the winter months?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We have given extensive levels of support. We are spending tens of billions of pounds on direct support to households over the winter on energy bills, cost of living payments, et cetera. This Government have an excellent record of standing by people, both in the pandemic and since then. We all know it is a difficult time; public expenditure is tight and, if what the noble Lord says is true and the economy has contracted, then there is even less money to go around because tax receipts will collapse as well. We have to keep all of these matters under consideration. We will stand by families as much as we can, and I think our record proves that.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Committee stage
Monday 19th December 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister and others who have spoken in this brief debate for bringing forward these amendments, as they represent necessary but foreseeable conditions for what is already a doorstep of a Bill. As the Minister said in his introductory statement, these amendments collectively show why and how heat networks and heat zones will be regulated and established.

In response to the noble Lord’s query, my understanding is that there are currently 14,000 heat networks, which represent 480,000 customers—about 2% of the total energy network. However, that percentage is predicted to rise to just under 20% by 2050. They will be a huge and significant part of the future energy market, and thus crucial in meeting net zero as they can unlock otherwise unobtainable and inaccessible large-scale renewable and recovered heat sources, such as waste heat. They are especially important for built-up areas, as they are the most effective way of accessing waste heat from industry and heat from rivers and mines.

There are currently no specific protections for customers of heat networks. A recent Competition and Markets Authority report said that while the majority of heat networks customers received a service comparable to that for other traditional customers, a significant minority did not. Higher prices and more frequent outages were just a couple of the highlighted issues. The CMA recommended regulating the sector, with Ofgem announced as the regulator and Citizens Advice and the energy ombudsman named as alternative dispute resolution bodies.

I have some questions for the Minister. First, on non-domestic customers, what steps do the Government envisage will be taken to draw the line between which of them will receive these protections and which will not? Secondly, while protecting these provisions, why have they come to us so late and to what extent were Scottish heat network customers not receiving equivalent protections under the initial drafting of the Bill? Finally, does this come into play only in a case where the powers in Clause 171 to designate GEMA as the licensing authority in Scotland are used?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to this brief debate. I acknowledge the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson: it will be difficult for me to ask him in future to limit the number of Liberal Democrat amendments after tabling all these. I quite take his point there; all I will say is that I flagged up to noble Lords at Second Reading that these amendments would be coming forward. There will be more on other subjects, as I also flagged up at Second Reading, which are still being drafted and will be tabled as soon as possible.

I first remind noble Lords, in acknowledging the point made by my noble friend Lord Lucas, that heat networks will play a crucial role in the UK reaching its net-zero targets, as they are one of the most cost-effective ways of decarbonising heating, particularly in built-up areas, where it would be more difficult to have individual property solutions. Noble Lords will probably be aware that the Climate Change Committee estimated that around 18% of UK heat will potentially come from heat networks by 2050—up from around 2% currently—to support the cost-effective delivery of our carbon targets. However, the sector is currently unregulated.

The Bill will provide regulation for that sector and give Ministers a power to introduce, among other things, consumer protection rules and carbon emission limits on heat networks. The majority of heat networks are performing perfectly well and often run by local authorities, housing associations and others, but one or two small, private networks are abusing their customers. Of course, once you are connected to it, that is effectively a monopoly. You have no choice but to take your business elsewhere, so regulation is required in the sector.

I will now talk to Amendment 162. The Bill already allows the Government to control heating sources by providing for authorisation conditions to contain emissions limits; this is contained in paragraph 14(3)(f) of Schedule 15. By gradually lowering emissions limits, authorisation conditions will drive changes in the types of fuels and technologies used to power various heat networks.

Using emission limits allows for dynamic, ongoing regulation. I submit that mandating specific heat sources is a more limited approach that risks the Government and this House picking winners. The exact approach for implementing emission limits will of course be subject to further consultation with industry and stakeholders. Settling on a pathway ahead of that consultation would, at this stage, be unwise.

Removing whole fuel types risks ignoring other factors that will come into play, such as technological improvements, system efficiencies, varying fuel costs, the replacement cycle of generation assets, and the need for flexibility in a system to provide separately for back-up or peak demand.

The Government are of course committed to net zero by 2050, and we see heat networks playing a vital role in this. The Government wish for the Bill and its secondary legislation to ensure that the heat network sector thrives and expands and is not held back in this goal. Therefore, I hope that the noble Lord, on behalf of the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, will feel able not to press the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

They could be, but we do not want to designate a particular technology because it will vary from area to area and locality to locality. It is to be expected that heat pumps will play a part in heat network zoning. That would be the case but we do not want to be particularly specific.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

I thank the Minister and the noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Ravensdale, for their contributions. I will assume that their questions have at least been addressed, if not fully answered. We might come back to them later; we shall see. On Amendment 162YYYZA, which would designate GEMA, the Minister said that there will be further consultation on who will ultimately become the designated body for network zones. Once that decision is made, will we hear about it? Will whoever has been designated that role be regulated or will it just be announced?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

It will be set in the appropriate regulations. The bottom line is that we have not made a final decision at this stage.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have spoken in this debate so far. We on the Labour Benches certainly welcome Amendment 192 in the names of the noble Baronesses, Lady Sheehan and Lady Hayman, and others, which would create a requirement to publish a national energy demand reduction strategy. It seems an obvious point to make.

We received some information from Energy UK. It says that, although we cannot deal with the current crisis in this Bill, it can ensure that long-term strategies are put in place to tackle the energy efficiency of the UK’s housing stock. This powerful point was made by the noble Lord, Lord Foster. If we do not have targets to measure it against, we cannot really manage it; we just have—I do not quite know what—a sort of wish list, I suppose. We support the targets suggested by the noble Lord, Lord Foster.

The Bill outlines its intention to create powers to remove the European energy performance of buildings directive, or EPBD, requirements in the UK. Those requirements are not perfect, but they have been in place in the supply chain, effectively delivering energy efficiency measures and low-carbon technologies. How will the Government safeguard against the potential for the UK to roll back on energy performance of buildings regulations when we remove the European energy performance of buildings regulations? We risk falling behind the rest of Europe, if we have not done so already, in this space.

We also need to see the detail regarding how the Government will safeguard against the potential for the UK to fall behind the rest of Europe. We need clarification on what measures the Government will take to ensure that all buildings are fit for the future, given the lack of measures in the Bill to reform planning and building regulations. The latter requirement could also be backed by the introduction of a net-zero test, as previously set out, but what measures will the Government take to ensure that all buildings are fit for the future, given the lack of measures in the Bill to reform planning and building regulations or set specific targets for delivery?

Finally, in relation to what the noble Lord, Lord Foster, said about the 19 million homes requiring energy efficiency measures to be put in place pretty quickly, I recommend to the Government Labour’s warm homes plan, which will deliver fully costed upgrades to 19 million homes, cutting bills and creating thousands of good jobs for the future.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank everyone who has contributed to this debate on energy efficiency, which is very much a matter dear to my heart. Noble Lords may have noticed that I was delighted to launch the Government’s £18 million “It all adds up” energy saving campaign on Saturday—it is almost as if it was designed especially for this debate—with advice that could help UK households cut hundreds of pounds off their bills. The campaign features tips on simple, low or no-cost actions that households can take to immediately cut energy use and save money while ensuring that people are able to stay safe and warm this winter.

We know that warmer homes and buildings are key to reducing bills and will create jobs along the way. That is why the Government are committed to driving improvements in energy efficiency, with a new ambition to reduce the UK’s final energy consumption from buildings and industry by 15% by 2030. Existing plans that we already have in place are expected to deliver around half of this new ambition. To go further, we will need to work together as a country to reduce waste and improve the way we use energy. As has been referenced in this debate, a new energy efficiency task force is being established to lead this national effort.

First, Amendment 192, in the names of the noble Baronesses, Lady Hayman and Lady Sheehan, and the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, requires the Secretary of State to publish a national energy demand reduction strategy to provide for the delivery of low-carbon heat and energy efficiency targets for all UK homes and buildings. Again, while I understand the reasoning behind this amendment, we do not consider it necessary to ensure that our commitments to improve the energy performance of buildings and our net-zero targets are met.

We already have a heat and buildings strategy which sets out the actions the Government need to take to increase the energy efficiency of buildings in the near term and provides a clear long-term framework to enable industry to invest and deliver the transition to low-carbon heating. Just having another strategy document does not make the policy decisions that are required any less difficult. As I have already mentioned, the Government are launching the energy efficiency task force with the key objectives of developing a long-term strategy to drive improvements in energy efficiency and reduce national energy demand.

As I have repeated many times in the House, we are investing £6.6 billion over this Parliament on clean heat and improving energy efficiency in buildings, reducing our reliance on fossil fuel heating. As I think the noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale, referenced, the Autumn Statement also recently announced a further £6 billion of funding to become available from 2025. In the context of spending reductions and a difficult economic environment, I was delighted to see that announcement from the Chancellor. The Government also recently announced—and we are now consulting on—a further energy efficiency support scheme through ECO+. The scheme will be worth about £1 billion and shall deliver an average household saving of around £310 per year through a broad mix of affordable insulation measures, including loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, draught-proofing and heating controls.

Amendment 197, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Foster, requires the Secretary of State to set an average energy performance certificate target for mortgage lenders of EPC C by the end of 2030. It also gives the Government the power to make regulations that relate to the disclosure of energy performance information on properties in their portfolio. I have met with many of the lenders, and I agree that they have an important role to play in improving the energy efficiency of the UK’s housing stock. However, as we highlighted in our consultation on improving home energy performance through lenders, the Government are concerned that the amendment may have unintended consequences for the mortgage and housing market. I am sure that this is not the noble Lord’s intention, but there is a danger of disincentivising mortgage lenders from lending to energy-inefficient properties. We would then end up with a load of unmortgageable homes in the UK, which I do not think anybody wants to see.

It is imperative that mortgage lenders are not disincentivised from lending to any particular group while home owners are under unprecedented financial pressure. The Government are using the feedback from the consultation to refine the policy and will publish a response once the policy matters have been resolved.

The noble Lords, Lord Ravensdale and Lord Foster, and the noble Baroness, Lady Young, all mentioned the importance of skills. If anything, that is key to this area, probably even more so than the availability of funding. We understand that scale-up requires consistent long-term deployment streams via government funding and regulation, which is what we are attempting to do, so that companies working in these markets can make the investments needed and individuals can choose to upskill.

To grow the installer supply chain, we are investing in skills and training. In 2021, the Government invested £6 million in the BEIS skills training competition, resulting in almost 7,000 training opportunities being provided across heat pump installation and wider retrofit skills. In fact, we have another training competition out for bids at the moment.

Amendment 212 in this group from the noble Lord, Lord Foster, would require the Secretary of State to collect and publish a list of those public buildings that hold display energy certificates, commonly referred to as DECs, and those that do not. I really do not believe that it would be cost effective for the Government to identify and inspect all public buildings that require a DEC, nor to record this information. The energy performance of buildings report published in 2020 cited an estimated DEC compliance of about 83%. We currently publish DEC data as part of our register. I hope noble Lords agree that this demonstrates that the existing system, which we intend to continue and keep under review, is working well in respect of DEC compliance.

Finally, Amendments 198A and 198B from the noble Lord, Lord Foster, would require the Secretary of State to ensure that all households achieve an energy performance certificate band C by 2035, with specified exemptions, and require regulations relating to energy performance in existing premises. The Government remain committed to our aspiration of improving as many homes as possible to reach EPC band C by 2035 where practical, cost effective and affordable. That is why, as I mentioned, we are investing £12 billion during this Parliament into the various Help to Heat schemes, some of which the noble Lord referenced, to make sure that homes are warmer and cheaper to heat, including £1.5 billion to upgrade around 130,000 social housing and low-income properties in England. However, we need to retain flexibility to choose the best approach, rather than being restricted to the regulatory requirement.

Regarding existing premises, the Government have consulted on raising the minimum energy-efficiency standards for the domestic and non-domestic private rented sectors. We are in the process of considering our responses to both consultations. However, it is important to stress that improving existing buildings is a complicated issue and requires striking a balance between improving standards and minimising impacts on the housing market, and, for the private rented sector specifically, ensuring that the final policy is fair to both landlords and tenants. That is a particular dilemma that we face with the PRS regulations.

Similarly, regarding the social rented sector, the Government have committed to consult within six months of the Social Housing (Regulation) Bill receiving Royal Assent. By prescribing specific targets without any opportunity for landlords to offer views, the proposed amendment would be at odds with this commitment.

I thank all noble Lords who contributed during this debate, but given what I have set out and the Government’s long-term commitment to drive improvements in energy efficiency, I hope that they will not press their amendments.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Committee stage
Monday 12th December 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I am also delighted to be debating the Energy Bill again. I am delighted that the noble Lord is still the Minister so that we at least have continuity on the Bill; it remains much the same as it was before we left it some three months ago.

As the Minister said, the amendments refer to Clauses 84 and 85 of Chapter 2 of Part 2 on “Decommissioning of carbon storage installations”. This gives the Secretary of State a power to make regulations regarding the financing and provision of security for decommissioning and legacy costs associated with carbon capture utilisation and storage. The decommissioning of offshore installations and pipelines used for carbon dioxide storage purposes is modified by Section 30 of the Energy Act 2008, which modified Part 4 of the Petroleum Act. Clause 84 enables further modifications to the modified Part 4 in relation to the definition of carbon storage installation, and the establishment of decommissioning funds and legacy costs as set out in Clause 82, “Financing of costs of decommissioning etc”.

Clause 85 relates to Sections 30A and 30B of the Energy Act 2008, which make provision for a person to qualify for change of use relief on installations and submarine pipelines converted for CCS demonstration projects—as defined by Energy Act 2010. This relief removes the ability for the Secretary of State, in some circumstances, to take steps under the modified Part 4. This clause makes amendments to Section 30A of the Energy Act 2008 by broadening the scope of change of use relief so that it applies to eligible carbon storage installations more generally, amending the trigger point to qualify for such relief.

Amendments 99 and 100, which the Minister referred to, were tabled by my noble friend Lady Liddell, who unfortunately cannot be here and therefore will not be able to move them. They reflect value-for-money considerations in the decision-making process, meaning that the Secretary of State could accept provision of security in respect of amounts to be contributed on account of decommissioning costs—costs likely to be incurred, as the Minister said, many years after the establishment of the fund—rather than requiring such amounts to be paid simply in cash.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, for their comments, but I do not think there were any points for me to address, so I will leave it there.

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[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I do not think that is the case. As a Minister, I have issued many consultations. In my experience there is never a problem with anybody contributing who wishes to, even if they are not statutorily listed in the legislation. They are normally public consultations in any case, with a large number of stakeholders. The advice from officials and others is always to extend the scope of consultation to be as wide as possible because you then minimise any potential legal challenges as a result. I understand the noble Lord’s concern but I do not think it is warranted on this issue.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the amendment that seeks to include the Opposition as part of the formal consultation would avoid what we get in Parliament, which is the “ayes and noes” and the “take it or leave it” approaches to policy development. This is an area where we have pretty much a common interest. It seems a sensible approach to throw open the consultation at least to the Opposition—who knows, maybe even to the fourth party—but to make it as wide as possible to avoid that prospect of Parliament rejecting or accepting in total whatever is put before it. It is about buy-in. As the Minister said, there are plenty of examples where buy-in has been part of the Government’s approach to consultation. It seems strange that this is not one of them. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Let me finish, then the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, will be able to come back.

I will start with Amendments 125 and 126. With Amendment 125, the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, calls for an adequate level of information to be provided to consumers in the trial area concerning safety, long-run bill impacts and opting out of the trial. I agree that these are important issues. Support from local people will be crucial to the success of the trial, and gas transporters are already working closely with communities in the potential trial locations. In fact, the relevant Members of Parliament have already been in touch with me, and I already have meetings in my diary to talk with them and residents from the local areas about this.

Steps have already been taken to ensure that people have all the information required to make an informed choice about whether they wish to participate. Both gas transporters have opened demonstration centres in the two shortlisted local communities to raise awareness of what the trial would involve.

Clause 109 provides the Secretary of State with the power to require the gas transporter running the trial to take specific steps to make sure that consumers are properly informed about the trial. In meeting their responsibilities to inform consumers, we fully expect gas transporters to provide clear information about each of the important topics listed in the noble Lord’s amendment.

I turn to Amendment 126. The Government have been very clear that no consumer in the trial location should be financially disadvantaged due to taking part in the trial. Last year, the Government published a framework of consumer protections that will underpin the trial. Consumers in the trial location will not be expected to pay more for their heating than they would if they had remained on natural gas or to pay for the installation and maintenance of hydrogen-capable appliances.

The village trial will be paid for through a combination of government and Ofgem funding and contributions from the private sector. All gas consumers pay a very small amount towards Ofgem’s net-zero funding for network companies, which supports projects to decarbonise the energy sector; that includes this trial. All gas consumers will benefit from well-informed strategic decisions on how to decarbonise the way we heat our homes.

I hope that I have been able to reassure the noble Lord that the important issues he has raised, about which I agree with him, are already effectively addressed by the Bill, and therefore that he feels able not to press his amendments.

I move on to Amendment 127 in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake. As I have said, local support will be crucial to the success of the trial. Gas transporters are already working closely with communities in the potential trial locations to develop an attractive offer for people who want to convert to hydrogen. However, we understand that not everyone will want or be able to connect to hydrogen, and the Government are clear that nobody will be forced to do so. The gas transporter running the trial will have to provide alternative heating solutions and appliances for people who do not take part in the trial. In May 2022, this requirement was clearly set out in a joint letter from BEIS and Ofgem to the gas transporters, alongside the other requirements that must be met before any funding is provided for the next stages of the trial. The gas transporters will need to demonstrate that they have a viable plan for providing alternatives to hydrogen. There is already an effective way to ensure that they provide alternatives to hydrogen, through the Government’s funding requirements.

We therefore do not believe that this amendment is necessary. I fully appreciate the noble Lord’s intention—which I share—to ensure that the trial is conducted properly, with alternative heating systems offered to people who do not take part. With that information, I hope he feels reassured that there are already steps in place to ensure this and will therefore feel able not to move the amendment.

I will say a few words about the stand part notices on Clauses 108 and 109. I know that the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones and Lady Worthington, and my noble friend Lord Moylan, who is not here now, have registered their intention to vote against these clauses. I have already established that the overall intent of these clauses is to support a safe and effective trial for hydrogen heating.

Clause 108 allows the Secretary of State to designate a hydrogen grid conversion trial, ensuring that both this clause and Clause 109 are narrow in scope and would apply only for the purposes of such a trial. Importantly, the clause expands the duty to participants of the gas transporter running the trial to undertake the required work without charge. It also makes certain modifications to the Gas Act 1986 to build on existing provisions concerning powers of entry. This will ensure that the gas transporter running the trial has clear grounds to enter private properties to: carry out any essential works, including replacing appliances and installing and testing safety valves; undertake inspections and tests for the trial, such as safety checks; and safely disconnect the gas supply in a property.

It is important to emphasise that gas transporters already have powers of entry into properties through the Gas Act. We are merely extending these powers in a very limited way to conduct the necessary work to set up and deliver the trial. Gas transporters will only ever use these extended powers as a very last resort once all other attempts to contact property owners and reach an agreement are exhausted. The existing rules on powers of entry requiring a gas transporter to obtain a warrant from a magistrates’ court will continue to apply, of course. I reiterate once again that nobody will be forced to use hydrogen. I have already covered the plans for alternative arrangements in my comments on the amendment earlier.

Finally, I draw noble Lords’ attention to the fact that the majority of responses to the public consultation the department ran last year on facilitating a hydrogen village trial were broadly supportive of our proposals to change legislation in this way. I therefore urge that Clause 108 stands part of the Bill.

Clause 109 provides the Government with the powers to establish consumer protections for people taking part in this world-leading hydrogen village trial. It will do this by giving the Secretary of State two delegated powers to make regulations which require the gas transporter running the trial to follow specific processes to engage and inform consumers about the trial, and ensure that consumers are protected before, during and after the trial.

The department is of course working closely with the gas transporters as they develop their plans for consumer engagement and protection. It is worth saying that there is quite a bit of support in these communities for the trial. The council leaders in the areas concerned have expressed their support and one MP in particular is actively campaigning for their area to take part in the trial. Opinion is obviously mixed in both communities, but we want to make sure that it has the maximum level of support required. I have already highlighted the importance of consumer engagement and support in my earlier comments. Regulations made under this clause will ensure that people will have all the information required to make an informed choice about whether they wish to participate.

The second power in this clause, to introduce regulations for consumer protections, will work alongside existing protections such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and the Gas (Standards of Performance) Regulations 2005. This recognises that it is a first-of-its-kind trial and will allow the Government to introduce additional protections for consumers in the trial area. These might include regulations to ensure that consumers are not financially disadvantaged by taking part in the trial.

I am sure that all noble Lords will agree that these provisions, which—as I said, again—were well received by stakeholders when we consulted on them last year, are crucial to ensure the fair treatment and protection of people in the selected trial area.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

The Minister said that no one would be forced to take part in the trial. I appreciate that but, first, it seems like the place for that statement to be made is within the Energy Bill. Secondly, will they be given an alternative low-carbon solution?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The answer to both of those questions is yes. No one will be forced to take part in the trial. If they do not take part in the trial, they will of course be given an alternative low-carbon solution.

Employment Policies

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 6th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The ingenuity of my noble friend in seeking to ask his questions knows no bounds. As far as I am aware, Ministers do not have employment contracts. We serve at the behest of the Prime Minister and sovereign, and I am sure that most Ministers are happy to continue doing so.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, in September, the TUC reported the UK Government to the ILO, saying that they had taken steps to infringe the right to strike. As the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, said, that was done, first, by passing a law to use agency workers to break legitimate strike action and, secondly, by proposing a minimum service level of transport. What consideration have the Government given to the substance of this complaint in how they progress the Transport Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Bill?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Forgive me for taking everything that the TUC says with a little pinch of salt but, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, we are very confident that all our measures do not infringe the right to strike. They seek to provide a balance between, on the one hand, allowing trade unions to take legitimate strike action but, on the other hand, trying to ensure some level of minimum service for the public. I hope that the Labour Party will take the opportunity to condemn the disgraceful tactics of the RMT recently in seeking to deny people their essential travel at Christmas.

Newport Wafer Fab

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 22nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee found no evidence to suggest that a review into the acquisition of Newport Wafer Fab had taken place, yet Politico reports that the Government’s National Security Adviser concluded that there were not enough security concerns to block it. Will the Government confirm on the record whether the review that was promised by the then Prime Minister Johnson took place or not? The same Foreign Affairs Committee warned that the sale of Newport Wafer Fab potentially compromises national security and is the loss of a prized asset to a competitor amid a global shortage of semiconductors. Given the sale has not been blocked, what steps are the Government taking to mitigate these risks?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, obviously, there is a limit to what I can say about this, but I will endeavour to be as helpful to the House as possible. I certainly can confirm to the noble Lord that the review did take place and was one of the factors that the Secretary of State took into consideration when he made his decision. It was made in a quasi-judicial manner and the Secretary of State considered that a risk to national security had arisen from the trigger event, which is why he made the order that he has.

Energy Bills Support Scheme and Energy Price Guarantee Pass-through Requirement (England and Wales and Scotland) Regulations 2022

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 22nd November 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I apologise for being slightly late in attending. I hope you will allow me to make the comments that I want to, in following up those from the noble Lords, Lord Hodgson and Lord Teverson.

I thank the Minister for his introduction to the SIs. They are regulations that seek to put right a substantial loophole in the arrangements set out under the energy price assistance scheme. As we have heard, this concerns customers who do not pay their energy directly but where, for instance, it is paid by an intermediary. These categories of consumer are at risk of not receiving the relief that should be guaranteed under the energy price support or for businesses under energy relief schemes. It is right that we should correct this, and quickly, so our support for these instruments is not in doubt.

The design of the SI to deal with all the problems is, however, somewhat at risk. Generally, the SIs require the intermediary to provide a fair and reasonable pass-through of what has been received for bills in the first instance—not necessarily the full amount but a fair and reasonable amount. This has the potential to give rise to complications. What is a fair and reasonable difference between what an intermediary receives and what it passes through? Perhaps the Minister, in his response, could explain what can be taken into account in establishing what is seen to be a fair and reasonable payment.

I understand that there is no sanction on any intermediary if it fails to pass on what it is supposed to pass on. As we heard from the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, a customer’s redress is through the civil courts, and some draft letters have been provided for that to happen. But in the light of the comments by the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, about the inequality of arms and so on, does the Minister believe there is any likelihood of a customer taking a landlord to court over a failure to pass through part or all of the payments they should have received? The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee talks about the “inequality of arms”, and there is a massive gap in power between landlords and vulnerable tenants.

In the limited cases of district heating schemes, as we have heard, if the pass-through is not sufficient there is a recourse to the Energy Ombudsman, but this is not available in the majority of cases. Why is the ombudsman not available to all customers who do not receive the pass-through from their landlords?

Finally, given that these SIs seem unlikely to resolve all pass-through problems, will the Government commit to monitoring this and establishing exactly what the facts are on the ground—as the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, said, we are not entirely sure how many people will be in this situation? Will they, if necessary, review these SIs quickly thereafter to make them fit for all circumstances and pass-through payments?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all three noble Lords who have contributed to the debate for their questions. These regulations are essential to the successful implementation of all the energy support schemes. They will help to ensure that the support reaches the intended beneficiaries. We are all agreed on that.

To continue to empower all energy consumers, we have provided more information via our online guidance, especially to some of the most vulnerable energy end-users, such as older people and those with disabilities. The Government will continue to engage with all relevant stakeholders in this sector, including the energy regulators, energy companies and civil society, on the delivery of the schemes—for example, SSE, Electric Ireland, Ofgem, the Utility Regulator of Northern Ireland, MoneySavingExpert and the Consumer Council. We will also continue to monitor the schemes to ensure that this support is provided to the people and businesses it is designed to help.

In addition—this responds to some of the questions raised—we are committed to reviewing the energy price guarantee and energy bill relief schemes by the end of the year, and of course we will work with stakeholders to ensure that their feedback is taken into account. We will use these reviews to consider how best to offer further support to the customers most at risk from energy price increases beyond April 2023. Looking ahead, the Government are working to deliver the energy bills support scheme alternative fund payments and the increased alternative fuel payment of £200.

My noble friend Lord Hodgson asked a question relating to the so-called inequality of arms—I completely understand the point he is making—and in particular the support for vulnerable people. The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, asked a related question on ensuring that end-users are aware of what they are entitled to. The regulations take this scenario into account. Where an intermediary receives energy support but has multiple end-users, the regulations say that it should determine a just and proportional method of dividing the benefit among those end-users, and clearly communicate how it has arrived at the amount allocated to the end-users.

Of course, we are keen to ensure that all end-users, including those who are vulnerable, receive the benefits of the schemes to which they are entitled. As such, we have been delivering and building a communications campaign. In addition, we have of course engaged with landlords, housing associations and charities that protect those who are most vulnerable.

For example, in developing the energy bills support scheme, we regularly engage with consumer groups and charities precisely to ensure that the scheme reaches the groups most in need and that we reach vulnerable consumers across the UK via a broad suite of communication channels. As well as working with charity and consumer groups, we work with stakeholders including local authorities, faith groups, the rural network and food banks to help disseminate information about the scheme and how it works.

We also recognise that many vulnerable consumers are on traditional prepayment meters. We have a communications campaign outlining the actions that these people need to take to receive their discount. For example, we have made details available via social media posts, radio broadcasts and posters translated into several languages.

In response to the question from my noble friend Lord Hodgson about compliance, the EBSS has a robust compliance and monitoring framework. Data has now been published showing that, in the first month, 97% of payments were successfully delivered to eligible households in England, Scotland and Wales. Where a supplier appears to be falling behind expectations, we will engage directly with them and ensure compliance. We will publish monthly updates until the end of this scheme. The EPG and the EBRS also have robust monitoring and evaluation in place to ensure that the schemes are operating effectively. As I said, they will be subject to review by the end of the year.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, asked about how we divide the scheme benefit between end-users. For the EBRS, the obligation is on the intermediary to pass on the benefits of the scheme, not the energy retailers themselves. The noble Lord will recall that the EBRS is a discount that is applied to the unit price of gas and electricity; it is not a direct payment to the suppliers. The energy suppliers will provide the appropriate EBRS price reduction to their customers, some of whom will be intermediaries, based on their contract type. Intermediaries will then be expected to pass on to their end-users a just and reasonable amount. That would be the case in the majority of park homes, where the site owner is on a commercial tariff.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, also asked me how park home residents will receive the payment. As I said, the majority of those households receive their energy bill support scheme payment automatically via their domestic energy supply contract. However, a small number of households do not have a domestic energy supply contract and, as such, will receive the £400 in funding through alternative funding mechanisms; it will not be delivered through electricity suppliers. We are currently working with delivery partners to make sure that the £400 support is provided to households at their primary residence. This includes those who do not have their own direct domestic electricity meter or a direct relationship with an energy supplier, including park home residents.

In response to the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, who asked what a “just and reasonable” amount might be, the regulations go further than simply setting out the just and reasonable test: they have been drafted to give examples of what is just and reasonable. Intermediaries are obliged to provide details to end-users setting out why they consider what they have done to be just and reasonable. The guidance published alongside the regulations gives further colour to the concept.

Intermediaries must pass on the discount irrespective of how the end-user pays for their energy use. They can adjust the amount that they pass on based on their charges to end-users; crucially, they have to demonstrate to end-users that this amount is just and reasonable. Intermediaries can take into account the extent to which they have increased their charges to end-users as a result of the energy crisis. For example, if the intermediary has shielded their end-users from the impact of increased energy prices, in those circumstances, it may be just and reasonable for them to retain some or all of the scheme benefit. The circumstances will be very individual.

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[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The answer to my noble friend’s question is that there is already a regulator in place for heat networks, so it is appropriate to use the regulator. Unfortunately, for most of the other circumstances there is no regulator in place, which is why we have had to default to the court process. I totally accept his point about the inequality of arms. I am not unrealistic about the difficulties that many tenants and others will face in trying to enforce their rights under this, but all we can do is put the regulations in place, publicise them and make sure that people know their rights. We will keep the scheme under constant review. We will ensure that the payments are passed through and that people receive the benefit to which they are entitled. We will not hesitate to act further if there is widescale avoidance of this responsibility.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

Following up the point from the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, is there then a possibility in the review that an ombudsman for the energy sector —not Ofgem—could be established or that the heat regulator could cover energy? I am not saying that that is going to happen, but it is a possibility. Secondly, the Minister kept saying that landlords “must pass on”, but if they fail to do so there is no sanction in the legislation; they just do not pass it on and they get away with it. Should there not be some sort of sanction for landlords if they fail to pass on just and reasonable costs to consumers?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The sanction is that the person who does not receive the benefit can take the matter to court. That is the point I am making. I am not pretending that this situation is ideal, but many landlords, charities and others involved in the sector are, by their very nature, not subject to energy regulators. Of course, if they are energy supply companies, such as heat networks, they are regulated by Ofgem, which is the energy regulator. All these intermediaries encompass a range of operators, from park home operators to landlords of houses in multiple occupation. It is difficult to see how we could establish an overall regulator for all these different circumstances, particularly as the whole thing is only temporary, for as long as the support scheme lasts.

We have attempted to address the situation as well as we can, by providing the appropriate guidance and by making sure people have access to enforcing their rights. I do not pretend to disagree with noble Lords that the situation is not ideal, but we have addressed it as best we can. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland: Energy Supply Shortfalls

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 21st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The Rough facility is working again, which was a commercial decision taken by the operators. The noble Lord is right about the overall quantity of supply but, of course, the countries he mentioned have no indigenous supplies of their own. We are very fortunate that some 40% of our supplies come from the North Sea.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, with the uncertainties that exist around gas supply and demand this winter and, given that 84% of supply to Northern Ireland comes through the Moffat pipeline from Scotland, can the Minister assure the House that sufficient contingencies are in place between the UK and Irish Governments to meet any significant variations in demand or supply?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I refer the noble Lord back to the Answer that I gave to the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie. We are of course extremely concerned about the upcoming winter. Many emergency drills have been held and we are in close contact with operators both in Northern Ireland and in the Republic of Ireland. I am pleased to say that co-operation is very good.

Energy Prices (Domestic Supply) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2022

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 16th November 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for bringing the regulations before us and the noble Lords, Lord Browne, Lord McCrea and Lord Teverson, for their comments and questions. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Browne, in particular for clarifying the depth and strength of the market in Northern Ireland. I was going to say that the regulations were not contentious, but there is a bit of contention and, no doubt, the Minister will deal with that.

The instrument defines the terms “NI domestic electricity supply” and “NI domestic gas supply” to scope the extent of premises that will be eligible. Specifically, this is to include some non-domestic premises which due to their similar metering and tariff arrangements would receive EPG support. Given there is no way for energy suppliers to disaggregate, it is difficult to disagree with this. I would be keen to hear from the Minister the scope of this impact, both in terms of the number of non-domestic premises and any additional costs incurred.

The Explanatory Notes use places of worship as an example, as did the Minister, but what other types of non-domestic premises are included? Perhaps we could turn to the experts from Northern Ireland to help us with this.

I would like to raise an issue that was brought up in the other place during the debate on this instrument on Monday. There is a scheme document linked to this instrument, headed “Establishment of domestic electricity price reduction scheme for Northern Ireland”, which in Schedule 5 states that the Government will require suppliers of electricity to hand all meter data to the Government for the purposes of regulating and discussing the domestic supply scheme.

This data will encompass many things; it will be held by the Government for 10 years and can be shared with other departments, law enforcement agencies, regulatory bodies and others. While it is not pertinent to today’s instrument, this is the same for rest of the United Kingdom in the respective document. This appears to be a breach of the data access and privacy framework which was produced when smart meters were first rolled out. It states that smart meter data is the property of the customer and can be disclosed to third parties, including the Government, only with their consent. I understand the Minister in the other place committed to write to Dr Alan Whitehead MP on this issue and I would appreciate it if the Minister could ensure that I receive the same response.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to the debate. The Government have implemented the EPG Northern Ireland scheme to ensure that consumers are protected from excessively high energy bills over the winter period, and I am sure that is something the Committee supports. The Committee will be reassured to know the scheme is already in force and delivering support to households across Northern Ireland. I hope this will also go some way to assuring the public that the Government are committed to taking decisive action to deal with the energy crisis.

As well as providing immediate relief, this scheme, alongside the EBRS, will support economic growth and limit inflation caused by increasing energy bills and their knock-on impact on prices, labour, goods and services. The scheme has been designed to operate robustly and guard against fraud and gaming, and we will continue to monitor the schemes to ensure that support is provided and limited to those people and businesses who it is designed to help. We are committed to reviewing the schemes and we will consider how best to offer further support to the customers who are most at risk to energy price increases beyond April 2023.

In response to the questions raised, I will concentrate first on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Browne, about heating oil. The noble Lord will be aware—and this was raised also by the noble Lord, Lord McCrea—that the alternative fuel payment will provide £100 to support households who do not use mains gas for heating. This alternative fuel payment is in addition to the £400 that households will receive through the energy bills support scheme. This applies in Northern Ireland and is designed to compensate for the rise in the price of heating oil from October 2022 in a way that is equivalent to the support received by people who heat their homes using mains gas and receive their support via the energy price guarantee. As the £100 alternative fuel payment is designed by reference to the increases in the price of heating oil and other alternative fuels that happened from September 2021 to September 2022, the Government are committed to continuing to monitor the prices over the coming months and we will consider further intervention if it is required to protect UK householders from extraordinary fuel prices.

The noble Lord, Lord Browne, further asked about unregulated electricity providers in Northern Ireland. Of course, the regulation of prices is a matter for UR, the regulator in Northern Ireland. The noble Lord is right that some electricity suppliers in Northern Ireland are not price regulated. It is a competitive market, but the EPG applies to all suppliers equally—the same discount applies to all.

The noble Lord, Lord McCrea, asked for clarification on backdated payments. The £400 EBSS will not be backdated, as it is paid as a flat sum. The EPG is, of course, backdated via an additional pence-per-kilowatt payment on top of the base EPG rate from November to March.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, also raised a point about the particular predominance of the oil provision in Northern Ireland; I think that I answered that in response to the noble Lord, Lord Browne. On the point regarding the single electricity market in Northern Ireland, there is no problem here. The measures that we are implementing are designed to support domestic consumers in Northern Ireland at the supply level as they relate to the retail market and do not impact on the underlying wholesale market. Therefore, they have no effect on the workings of the single electricity market.

The noble Lord, Lord Lennie, raised a point about metering and tariff arrangements and the scope of the impact on the number of non-domestic premises that have been brought into the EPG. In addition to places of worship, he questioned what other premises are included. I can confirm to him that some farms and small businesses are included. In respect of small businesses, it is those that are operating from former dwelling-houses. In reality, very few premises are affected—possibly fewer than 100 non-domestic premises are in scope—and the EPG and the EBRS of course provide equivalent support.

The noble Lord went on to ask about meter data. We are continuing to plan for and assess the use of personal data provided under the scheme documents in Northern Ireland and Great Britain. Obviously, as part of this work we will ensure that we comply with any relevant legal duties under the smart meters Data Access and Privacy Framework, so the data will be used only when necessary to calculate support payments and, of course, to ensure the good use of public money, which I am sure the noble Lord will support.

With that, I think I have answered all the relevant questions—

Prescribed Persons (Reports on Disclosures of Information) (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 15th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, these regulations were laid before the House on 17 October 2022. The changes made by the statutory instrument before the House today are necessary as a result of changes made through another SI, also laid on 17 October: the Public Interest Disclosure (Prescribed Persons) (Amendment) Order 2022. Among other changes, that order made Members of the Scottish Parliament prescribed persons and removed the European Securities and Markets Authority as a prescribed person for whistleblowing.

The regulations before the House today make two subsequent changes. First, they exempt Members of the Scottish Parliament from the duty that most prescribed persons are under to report annually on the whistleblowing disclosures that they have received. Secondly, as it will no longer be a prescribed person, the regulations remove the European Securities and Markets Authority as a body exempt from the reporting requirements.

The Employment Rights Act 1996, as amended by the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998, enables workers in all sectors to seek redress if they are dismissed or suffer detriment at the hands of the employer because they have blown the whistle. Workers who believe that they have been dismissed or otherwise detrimentally treated for making a protected disclosure can complain to an employment tribunal.

As I set out earlier, the changes in the regulations before the House today are necessary as a result of changes made in the Public Interest Disclosure (Prescribed Persons) (Amendment) Order 2022. I am pleased to say that the Public Interest Disclosure (Prescribed Persons) (Amendment) Order 2022 makes a number of significant additions to the list of prescribed persons. It adds the Drinking Water Inspectorate, the Office for Environmental Protection, Environmental Standards Scotland, Social Work England, all 129 Members of the Scottish Parliament, the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman and the natural resources body for Wales.

The SI also removes the European Securities and Markets Authority as a prescribed person. This reflects the fact that, since EU exit, the relevant regulatory responsibilities have been assigned to the Financial Conduct Authority. Consequently, disclosures that could previously be made to the European Securities and Markets Authority will now be made to the FCA.

The overall effect of the statutory instrument is that more workers will be able to blow the whistle to a relevant prescribed person. This not only ensures that the worker making the disclosure is more likely to qualify for employment protection but means that those regulators and public bodies will benefit from receiving valuable intelligence.

The SI before the House today concerns the annual reporting requirement that most prescribed persons are under. It was introduced in 2017 and requires most prescribed persons to publish an annual report on whistleblowing disclosures made to them by workers. The requirement introduces greater transparency around the work of prescribed persons to increase confidence among whistleblowers that their disclosures are taken seriously and action is taken where appropriate.

The requirement also supports greater consistency across different bodies in the way they respond to disclosures. A small set of prescribed persons is exempt from the reporting requirement, such as Members of the House of Commons and Welsh and Scottish Ministers. These prescribed persons are exempt as, obviously, they do not have a regulatory function. Instead, they are prescribed due to their distinctive and key role in aiding constituents on whistleblowing matters and supporting them to make a disclosure to a regulatory body, as relevant.

The SI amends the list of prescribed persons exempt from the reporting duty in two ways. First, it adds Members of the Scottish Parliament to the list of prescribed persons exempt from the reporting requirement. This will ensure that MSPs will be able to fulfil their new role in a proportionate manner and means that they will be prescribed on the same terms as Members of the House of Commons. Secondly, as I said, the SI removes the European Securities and Markets Authority as a prescribed person exempt from the reporting requirement. This is necessary because, as I explained, the ESMA is being removed as prescribed person.

To conclude, the Government value the role of whistleblowers in bringing wrongdoing to light. The effect of the Public Interest Disclosure (Prescribed Persons) (Amendment) Order 2022 and the Prescribed Persons (Reports on Disclosures of Information) (Amendment) Regulations 2022 will be to bring the list of prescribed persons up to date and ensure its effective operation. This will mean that whistleblowers across Great Britain have a greater opportunity to report on wrongdoing that they witness at work while qualifying for employment protection.

It is of course important that this list operates in a manner that is proportionate and effective. In particular, it is right that Members of the Scottish Parliament are exempt from the reporting duty that prescribed persons are under. I therefore commend this regulation to the House.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for bringing the regulations to the House, and I will also be brief in my remarks on this entirely sensible instrument. As we have heard, it amends the Prescribed Persons (Reports on Disclosures of Information) (Amendment) Regulations 2017 to exempt Members of the Scottish Parliament, who are being added as prescribed persons to the Public Interest Disclosure (Prescribed Persons) (Amendment) Order 2022, from the requirement to report annually about the public interest disclosures that they receive from workers. It also makes a further amendment to the 2017 regulations to reflect the fact that the European Securities and Markets Authority is being removed as a prescribed person.

The Public Interest Disclosure (Prescribed Persons) Order 2014 prescribed persons to be recipients of whistleblowing disclosures for the purpose of Part 4 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. The 2017 regulations created an obligation on prescribed persons to report annually about what public interest disclosures they receive from workers. They also exempted prescribed persons from the obligation by excluding them from the definition of “relevant prescribed person” in Regulation 2. The 2022 order is amending the 2014 order to add Members of the Scottish Parliament as prescribed exempted persons and to remove the European Securities and Markets Authority.

This follows on a call for evidence in 2013 by the then Department for Business, Innovation and Skills about introducing an obligation on most prescribed persons to report annually on the whistleblowing disclosures they received. The intention was to increase confidence that whistleblowing disclosures were and are looked into and to drive up transparency across how prescribed persons are handled.

The MSPs are not the regulators of a sector or specific type of wrongdoing, and there is an interest in ensuring that they are not burdened with the administrative requirement to produce annual reports, as is the case with MPs. As such, they have been added to the list of those exempted from producing these reports. The European Securities and Markets Authority is being removed as a prescribed person from the 2022 order to reflect the fact that, since EU exit, the relevant regulatory responsibilities have been assigned to the Financial Conduct Authority. Consequently, it should be removed from the list of prescribed persons exempt from the reporting duty.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord for his support. This is entirely uncontroversial and there are no questions, so I commend the regulations to the House.

Climate Change (Targeted Greenhouse Gases) Order 2022

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 15th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing this statutory instrument, and send apologies from my noble friend Lady Blake, who was due to be here but is currently supervising the birth of her latest grandchild—good luck with that.

The instrument extends the scope of emissions captured and reported under the Climate Change Act 2008 by including nitrogen trifluoride—I had not heard of it either, until yesterday when preparing for this—as a targeted greenhouse gas. Following on from the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, I point out that this means that NF₃ emissions will be included within the scope of emissions for the annual statement of emissions for 2021, to be published by 31 March 2023, the full accounting period for the UK’s third carbon budget—CB3—and for subsequent carbon budgets. I am not sure whether that is the answer, but that is my understanding of what we are dealing with.

We on this side of the House have no objections to this instrument, but we have some questions. The Climate Change Act requires the Secretary of State to reduce the amount of net UK carbon emissions to at least 100% below the 1990 level, and to set a carbon budget for each five-year period, to report each year in line with international reporting practices. As we have heard, NF₃ has a global warming potential that is 17,000 times or thereabouts greater than carbon dioxide, although I am not sure that you can smell it, taste it or see it. Therefore, it is right to include it in the annual emissions reporting.

The Climate Change Committee highlighted that the volume of current NF₃ emissions is so low that it is not likely to impact on achieving the 2050 target, as the Minister said in his introduction. However, I am interested in whether the Government have made any assessment of the likelihood of this changing and whether there should be any increase in NF₃ emissions. Also, what is likely to affect the increase in NF₃ emissions into the atmosphere?

As we are coming to the end of the third carbon budget period, I would appreciate it if the Minister could update the House on the current expectation going into the fourth period next year. Given that these budgets were set long in advance—the third in 2008 and the fourth in 2011—they require long-term policy planning, and while the Climate Change Committee in June this year stated that the prospects for meeting the fourth are better than for meeting the fifth and sixth, it has also highlighted the dependence on short-term macroeconomic trends and the extent to which emissions rebounded following the pandemic.

On a wider note, the Climate Change Committee’s report in June emphasised that delivery is undermining the Government’s policy ambition. What steps are the Government taking to address this and to ensure that the positive words are met with the required delivery actions? The report also emphasised that action to address the rising cost of living should be aligned to net zero, yet we have seen the Government favouring non-renewables, with their loopholes to the oil and gas levy, while continuing their apparent ban on onshore wind.

We have asked for this to be considered many times, but I would be interested to hear the Government’s assessment of the impact that these decisions will have on their ability to hit forthcoming carbon budgets.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

First, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. The points raised demonstrate the need for the Government to continue to press ahead with our world-leading climate goals.

The Climate Change Act was indeed a landmark piece of legislation globally, placing the UK at the forefront of climate change action. The Act requires the Government to ensure that our emissions reporting meets standards set internationally. I am proud that this Government are doing exactly that in bringing forward this legislation, and that was recognised by both speakers.

It is worth restating my thanks to the Committee on Climate Change for its support, advising on this legislation and its compatibility with those carbon budgets already set. I further thank our devolved Administrations for their responses to the consultation on this order and, as I said, to the Welsh Minister for Climate Change for her support in bringing forward the statutory instrument consent memorandum in the Senedd.

The Government are intent on delivering a UK economy that is greener, more sustainable and more resilient. Having handed over the presidency of COP 26, we will work with this year’s presidency, Egypt, to make sure that international commitments secured at COP 26 under the Glasgow climate pact are honoured.

The pact remains the blueprint for accelerating climate action in this critical decade to keep 1.5 degrees centigrade in reach. This is a pivotal moment to redouble our efforts, resist backsliding and ultimately go further and faster using the Glasgow and Paris commitments as the baseline of our ambition. Domestically, we will continue to keep abreast of developments and make improvements where needed to ensure that the Climate Change Act 2008 continues to provide the basis for our world-leading, legally binding emission-reduction targets.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, asked a very reasonable question: why are we only now reporting on NF₃ from 2020-21, when we have previously included it from 2013 in the Explanatory Memorandum? The Government have been reporting NF₃ emissions in their official statistics and as part of our international reporting obligations since 2015—with a two-year lag—when nitrogen trifluoride was included under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change guidelines. This legislation extends that reporting to statutory reporting requirements to ensure that NF₃ emissions can be captured by our domestic as well as international reporting. Given the high potency of NF₃, we must recognise the importance of ensuring that we reduce its impact through its inclusion in our climate targets.

The noble Lord, Lord Lennie, posed a number of other questions. If the noble Lord will forgive me, I will come back to him on those in writing. I commend this order to the House.

Government Departments: Communication with Industry and Commerce

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 14th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course we need action. I agree with the noble Lord on that, and we will hear the Chancellor’s latest proposals on Thursday. It is a difficult issue that needs resolving, but one of the consequences of our record low levels of unemployment is skills shortages. However, we have a skills plan to invest across the whole range of the economy to make sure that we have the skills we need.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the Financial Services and Markets Bill received significant submissions of written evidence from business, industry and commerce, including many from the City who welcome the Bill but call for a number of commitments on the transition from EU to UK regulation. Recent government actions have undermined faith in the City, at a time when we need to listen closely to our world-class financial and professional services. What assessment have the Government made of submissions to the Bill and what further steps will they take to engage productively as it continues its passage through both Houses?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord on the importance of our world-class business and professional services in the City of London. Perhaps he can have a word with his noble friend about the importance of these industries to the country. Of course, we will continue to liaise with all City firms; we will not always agree on everything, because appropriate regulation is important, but we will continue to liaise with them.

Energy Prices Bill

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

3rd reading
Tuesday 25th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, it is my great pleasure to thank all those who have supported the progress of the Bill so far. Let me first thank the Opposition—the noble Lords, Lord Lennie and Lord McNicol, and all their colleagues—for their co-operation in progressing this expedited Bill. I am extremely conscious of the fact—and the House should be aware—that we could not be doing this legislation as fast as we are without the consent of opposition parties. I am grateful to them for that. I also pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, for his invaluable work and contributions, and thank all other Members who contributed to our debates, helping ensure that the Bill is of most benefit to our nation.

I thank the Welsh and Scottish Governments for their support for the Bill. I very much welcome the Senedd’s and Scottish Parliament’s decision to provide legislative consent for the elements of the Bill that impact on devolved competence. We got very late notice of the Scottish Parliament granting it, so I am grateful for that.

I thank the Northern Ireland Executive’s Department for the Economy and Department of Finance for their constructive engagement during the drafting of the Bill. In the absence of an Executive, a legislative consent Motion cannot be secured from the Northern Ireland Assembly. Given the urgent need for this Bill to give financial support to the people and businesses of Northern Ireland, the UK Government are legislating on behalf of the Northern Ireland Assembly. Ministers in Northern Ireland have been made aware of this, and my department will continue to engage with the Northern Ireland Executive on devolved matters as the Bill is implemented.

Let me also thank the House of Lords Public Bill Office, the House clerks, and the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel for their extremely hard work in drafting the Bill at pace and ensuring that it could be expedited through this House. As always, Ayeesha Bhutta, the principal private secretary to the Leader and Chief Whip, has been a total star in keeping us all right on the procedure of the Bill.

My thanks go to all the policy, analytical and legal officials in BEIS for their expert advice, resilience and, above all, sheer hard work. Many of them worked round the clock and at weekends to deliver this package of support for our nation. They are a credit to the Civil Service, and I thank them for their work.

I would like to thank my private secretary, Matthew Sachak, and the senior responsible officer for the Bill, Jeremy Allen. I must also thank the Bill team: Jessica Lee, Safia Miyanji, Kirsten Horton, Nicholas Vail, Salisa Kaur, Abi Gambel, Luke Rawcliffe, James Banfield, Matthew Pugh, Laura Jackson, Phaedra Hartley and Nicholas Benjamin. I cannot forget the BEIS lawyers, who do their level best to keep me apprised of legal matters —and sometimes even succeed: Wei Lynn, Alex Bentley, Charles Grant, Stephanie Bisset, Matthew Orme, Genna King, Alex Ivett, Susie Squire, Giovanna Amodeo and Sylvia Campigotto.

Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine has affected families and businesses up and down this country. This is the moment to be bold. The Government have acted immediately and dealt with the crisis hands on, ensuring people can keep their homes warm and businesses are kept open during the winter months.

The Bill includes powers to stop volatile and high gas prices dictating the cost of electricity produced by much cheaper renewables, which will be to the benefit of bill payers. The Bill puts energy bills support for people, businesses, charities and the public sector across the nation on a secure legislative footing. It is a vital step in delivering an unprecedented package of assistance for the whole of the UK. I thank noble Lords for their patience and commend this Bill to the House.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, briefly, I thank the Minister and his Whip, the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, for their co-operation and hard work during the speedy passage of the Bill. I also thank both the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on the Liberal Democrat Benches for his knowledge of these matters, and especially my noble friend Lord McNicol, who, while not in his place today, came in at the last minute to support me in the absence of my noble friend Lady Blake. Finally, I thank Milton Brown from the legislative team in the Labour office for keeping us up to date and on message throughout the process. The Bill will now be referred to the other place, and we wish it well in its speedy implementation.

Energy Prices Bill

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Committee stage
Monday 24th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the whole question of the energy market is complicated and beset by a series of legislative procedures which can cause confusion. That said, the new clause proposed by Amendment 14 would simply require the Secretary of State to produce a report assessing the impact of removing the investment allowance from oil and gas companies, as set out in the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act, and, in particular, to assess the impact on domestic and non-domestic users. Currently, oil and gas companies receive an 80% rebate on every pound invested but that is not available to renewables or other zero-carbon technology. This appears to tilt the market away from investments in cheaper domestic clean power sources towards oil, gas and fracking.

The proposed new clause would require the Government to assess the revenue and profits of electricity generators and oil and gas producers every six months, to see what the effects would be. Amendment 20 would require the Secretary of State to disaggregate the cost of production of natural gas from the cost of production of other energy sources to reduce the cost of electricity to domestic and commercial consumers. This dates back to when gas was the only game in town for energy companies; now, renewables account for 43% of the generation mix.

Gas prices have increased fourfold since the beginning of 2011, which means that consumers are paying much more for electricity than the average cost of generation across the market. Splitting the market is a likely consequence, by creating a separate pool for cheaper, intermittent, renewable generation and a second for traditional fossil fuel, which in turn could lead to consumers determining when to use cheaper electricity for things such as car charging by timing their usage accordingly. Electricity prices would be determined competitively by companies considering their own boundaries rather than working through gas. I give notice of our attention to move Amendment 14 to a vote.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords who have tabled amendments in this area, on the energy profits levy, including an amendment that seeks to reduce the costs of electricity to consumers.

I start with Amendment 13, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, which would require the Secretary of State to publish a report on the additional revenue that could be raised from expanding the energy profits levy. I shall say something very similar to what I said to the noble Lord, Lord Foster, that all taxes are kept under review, and any changes in tax policy should be considered and announced by the Chancellor, in line with the usual Budget processes. The Treasury view, therefore, is that this amendment is not appropriate for this Bill.

The energy profits levy has been designed with a bespoke tax base, appropriate to respond to the extraordinary global context of high oil and gas prices. The levy is expected to raise substantial revenue while providing companies with a new incentive for investment. It is right that we continue to encourage investment in North Sea oil and gas to strengthen the UK’s vital offshore oil and gas sector and bolster our future energy security. The amendment would also require the Government to produce an estimate of upstream profits expected in the next two years. Such estimates will be highly sensitive to commodity price fluctuations. Given the volatility in prices since last year and that most companies’ out-turn profits are publicly available, it is not clear that producing such an estimate would be a beneficial use of public resources.

I turn to Amendment 14, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Lennie and Lord McNicol. This amendment requires the Secretary of State to publish a report on the impact of removing the investment allowance in the energy profits levy. The Treasury has made clear its view that it is not for this House to discuss the matters raised by this amendment in relation to this Bill, on the basis that fiscal issues are a matter for the House of Commons. Tax policy changes are an area for the Treasury, which believes that the Chancellor should consider and announce any changes in line with the usual Budget process. Taxation on the profits of oil and gas producers is not in scope of this Bill. The energy profits levy, introduced under the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act 2022, has been in place since May. It is not standard for the Government to publish assessments of the economic impacts of measures that they are not introducing. The Government already monitor the UK oil and gas sector; data on upstream production is published regularly on GOV.UK. It is not clear how a report on the impact of a hypothetical change would be a beneficial use of public resources.

I turn to Amendment 15, also tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Lennie and Lord McNicol, which would require the Secretary of State to publish an assessment of the revenue and profits of electricity generators and oil and gas producers every six months. The profits of oil and gas producers are not in scope of these measures but are subject to the energy profits levy, which has been in place since May. The out-turn revenue and profits of most electricity generators are already in the public domain, so I do not believe this amendment is necessary. The objective of the Energy Prices Bill is to protect consumers from very high energy prices. We recognise that we must strike a balance that is fair to generators, achieves value for money for consumers and maintains investor confidence. That is why it is appropriate that the House gets the chance to debate fully the first set of regulations made under the temporary cost-plus revenue limit.

Prepayment Meters: Pricing

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 11th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We are helping those struggling to pay bills; I refer the noble Lord to the massive programme of support that we have put in place. These charges are set by Ofgem. I am aware that the standing charge is a controversial subject, but that reflects the network costs and other costs that every customer has to bear in addition to the unit costs of gas and electricity.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, there are 4 million prepayment energy customers in this country whose bills are not smoothed out over the year, unlike those who pay by direct debit. Ofgem figures show that prepayment customers are likely to pay two-thirds of their annual energy costs during the winter. What immediate measures will the Government take to help relieve pressures on these hard-pressed energy customers?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The answer to the noble Lord’s question is the massive programme of support we have put in place, which amounts to about £60 billion of direct payment support. Had we not put these measures in place, the average unit cost would have been about £6,000 per year; now it is down to an average of £2,500 per year. I emphasise that that is not a maximum but an average of the unit costs of energy that are capped under the price guarantee.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Committee stage
Wednesday 7th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I will speak to government Amendments 41 and 63 standing in my name. Amendment 63 will enable the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority and the Northern Ireland Authority for Utility Regulation to enforce hydrogen levy requirements imposed on relevant Great Britain and Northern Ireland market participants respectively.

The existing enforcement provisions in the Bill enable regulations to make provision for the levy administrator to, for example, issue notices and charge interest on late payments in respect of market participants who default on levy payments. Amendment 63 complements the existing enforcement provisions. Crucially, it ensures that regulations can make provisions for more robust forms of enforcement and enables enforcement under the terms of the licences held by market participants obliged to pay the levy, such as the possibility of licence revocation. It is critical that the levy is supported by a suite of enforcement measures. This will help reduce the risk of defaults on levy payments and help ensure that the levy administrator can collect the money required to fund the hydrogen business model and cover related costs.

Amendment 41 ensures that regulations made under this new clause will be subject to the affirmative resolution procedure, to ensure sufficient parliamentary scrutiny of these more robust enforcement arrangements. Therefore, I hope they will be acceptable to the House. I beg to move.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, these government amendments are evidence of the rather chaotic state of the Bill as it has come to us. It is long—300-plus pages, 13 parts, et cetera—and missing this from the original drafting is an oversight by the Government that needs some explanation. Having said that, the amendments allow for an enforcement provision under the new regulations and for these to be subject to the affirmative procedure. We welcome that scrutiny and the ability to enforce regulations that are made. These amendments will also allow revenue support regulators to make provision for the relevant requirements found in the pre-existing enforcement regimes win the Gas Act 1986 and the Electricity Act 1989, as well as, as the Minister said, regulations regarding Northern Ireland. I would be interested to know when the existence of these pre-existing requirements was discovered. I look forward to his response.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord is correct that a lot of drafting work went in. There is always limited OPC drafting time in government. It is regrettable that these clauses have had to be added, but I hope that I have provided sufficient explanation for them. The detailed levy design is pending, of course, but they include the enforcement arrangements for the levy. It is crucial that we allow for regulations to make provision for a range of enforcement measures. This provision simply allows regulations to enable the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority and the utility regulator to use their existing enforcement powers to ensure that relevant market participants comply with the obligation to pay the levy. Participants in the energy market are already very familiar with these arrangements.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the amendments from the noble Lord, Lord Oates, are very welcome and they plug a gap in the Energy Bill. Amendment 50 facilitates the changes proposed by allowing the Secretary of State to

“designate the person to be a counterparty for long duration energy storage revenue support contracts.”

Amendment 51 introduces a new clause which allows the Secretary of State to

“direct a long duration energy storage counterparty to offer to contract with an eligible person”.

Clauses 59, 61 and 63 already allow designation of counterparties for transport and storage, hydrogen production and carbon capture revenue support contracts, and Amendment 50 simply replicates this for long duration energy storage. Similarly, Clauses 60, 62 and 64 already allow the Secretary of State to direct counterparties to offer to contract, and Amendment 51 replicates this for long duration energy storage.

The amendments define long-duration energy storage revenue support contracts as being

“between a long duration energy storage counterparty and the holder of a licence under section 7”

and, as ones

“entered into by a long duration energy storage counterparty in pursuance of a direction given to it under section 60(1).”

This fills a big gap for long-duration energy storage. According to the Government, longer-duration storage—access across days, weeks and months—could help to reduce the cost of meeting net zero by storing excess low-carbon generation for longer periods of time, thereby helping to manage variation in generation, such as extended periods of low wind. This in turn could reduce the amount of fossil-fuel and low-carbon generation that would otherwise be needed to optimise the energy output from renewables.

Long-duration energy storage includes pumped storage as well as a range of innovative new technologies that can store electricity for four hours to supply firm, flexible and fast energy that is valuable for managing high-renewables systems. Introducing long-duration energy storage in large quantities in Britain by 2035 can reduce carbon emissions by 10 megatonnes of CO₂ per annum, reduce systems costs by £1.13 billion per annum and reduce reliance on gas by 50 TWh per annum. That seems to me worth consideration in this Bill.

Amendment 225 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, which has general support around the House, requires the Government to produce a strategy for the storage of gas for domestic consumption. This would see the construction and operation of gas storage facilities capable of holding 25%, although it could be more—it could be 100%—of forecast domestic consumption each year beyond 2025. While agreeing that UK gas storage is currently small, which may have left us exposed to higher prices and shortages thus far, is it the solution to the long-term energy supply problems that we may face? It may well be that we need an immediate expansion of gas, but whether it is the long-term solution to our energy supply is open to some question. The UK currently stores enough gas to meet demand over four or five winter days, which is clearly not enough. But the new Chancellor said, when he was the Business Secretary, that the answer to mitigating a quadrupling of the gas price in four months was to get more diverse sources of supply, and more diverse sources of electricity, through non-carbon sources. So there is some doubt about the long-term viability of increasing gas storage.

Amendment 240 from the noble Lord, Lord Foster, would establish a new clause to store energy generated by solar panels in the list of energy-saving materials that are subject to zero-rate VAT. He had the example of his friend in the south-west. Modelling from Cornwall Insight’s view of the GB power market out to 2030 has shown that between 2025 and 2030 the Government must spend almost one-fifth of their total energy technologies investment, which includes solar, wind, nuclear and carbon capture and storage, on energy storage batteries, if we are to meet renewable targets and stabilise the energy market. Latest data estimates that almost 10% of grid capacity will be provided by battery storage by 2030, at an estimated cost of £20 billion. So, considering both the need and the cost of this, the amendment seems a sensible proposal to encourage the market to take up some of the burden.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords for participating in what has been a fascinating debate on an important subject, very much building on the discussion that we had earlier this afternoon. I shall come on to the issue of gas storage—a popular topic of the day—a bit later.

I start with Amendments 50 and 51, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Oates. Long-duration energy storage covers a wide range of technologies, and the Government are looking at the need for revenue support for these separately, as they all face different challenges and solve different problems. While I commend the noble Lord’s intentions, I put it to him that these amendments are premature at this stage.

In the case of electricity storage, I reassure the noble Lord that we are committed to developing policy enabling investment for large-scale, long-duration electricity storage by 2024, as we have set out in our response to the call for evidence. As noted by the noble Lord, Lord Oates, we recognise that these technologies face significant barriers to deployment under the current market framework, due to their long build times, the high upfront costs, and the lack of forecastable revenue streams. Similarly, in the case of hydrogen storage, the 2021 UK hydrogen strategy set out our ambitions in this area.

More recently, and in recognition of the important role that hydrogen storage is expected to play in the hydrogen economy, we committed in the 2022 British energy security strategy to design hydrogen transport and storage business models by 2025. Indeed, we published a consultation on these matters in August. It is my contention that adding these clauses to the Bill now would prejudge the outcomes of the policy development which, as I hope noble Lords recognise, is already well under way.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

Okay, do not reappoint him. What can I say? I was going to set out a hypothetical situation about an oil and gas plant that had been decommissioned, but not fully, and was to be recommissioned and transferred to CCUS usage. I do not know whether that will never be possible, but who knows? It is a complicated situation and I wanted to know where the Minister thought responsibility would lie. However, I am pleased to say that he has pointed us towards the 1998 Act, the 2008 Act and some other Acts, so somewhere in there lies an answer. It would seem sensible to draw together whatever is the answer to the question and put it in the Bill, to update it. The Minister can come back on that and to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, about whether that will ever be the situation.

As for the other government amendments to the Bill, I have again to make the point that this Bill of 350-plus pages, three parts and however many clauses is surely sufficient to cover the energy circumstance. As I said in my introduction yesterday, the Bill is a mix of all sorts of things without a coherent theme. If it had a coherent theme, it might well have covered these matters in the first place, but that is really for then, not for now.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank noble Lords, and let me apologise to the Committee for the number of government amendments. They are quite technical, and the Bill is obviously very large. It was drafted at pace, and it was not possible with the resource we had available to get all the details finalised, which is why there are a number of technical amendments.

The answer to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, which is a very good one at first sight, is that, of course, when the storage facilities are full, the storage facilities themselves are not decommissioned. They are used, but all the storage infrastructure—pipework and all the associated engineering, platforms, injection facilities, et cetera—will need to be decommissioned. I am sure the Liberal Democrats fully support the “polluter pays” principle, whereby someone who has benefited from a facility should be made to bear the costs of decommissioning it, which is why we are setting up a fund to do that. I reassure him that we do not decommission the actual sites—as he said, it would be quite difficult to extract the carbon dioxide from them to put it somewhere else—but they require monitoring, and the associated infrastructure will need to be decommissioned, which is why the fund is being established.

Low-Income Families: Energy Cost Support

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 6th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate is not correct about that. It depends on which energy companies he is talking about: many of the energy suppliers have gone bankrupt over the last year or are making very marginal profits. Some producers, often in other parts of the world, are making very large profits. There are issues to do with some of the early renewable power obligation companies, which are also doing well. Under the latest contracts for difference schemes, that money is being recouped from the taxpayer. In all of these things, it is easy to make these observations but of course, it is an overly complicated situation.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, following on from the right reverend Prelate’s question, figures from the University of York suggest that four in five households will face fuel poverty by January and millions of people are struggling to make ends meet. The i newspaper reported yesterday that the new PM is following the pattern of the former PM and doing a screeching U-turn, now saying that direct intervention in the fuel crisis is necessary and following Labour’s proposal to freeze energy bills. Can the Minister tell us if and when we can expect this to be delivered?

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Committee stage
Monday 5th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I do not think it is important to do that at this stage; we have published the consultation, we are closely analysing responses, as the noble Baroness will understand. It is a difficult area, it is a complicated area, there are a number of potential ramifications, and we think it is worthy of consideration. If we took a power now, that might have a very destabilising effect on the market and on the amount of investment that is flowing into many of the sectors, so the Government’s position at the moment is that we do not think that is necessary or desirable.

I reassure noble Lords that the addition of electrification to the Energy Bill is also unnecessary. The net-zero strategy sets out the Government’s view on how electrification can enable cost-effective decarbonisation in transport, in heating and in industry—to that extent, I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, and the points that she made—along with our approach to deliver reliable, affordable and low-carbon power. The energy security strategy accelerated, as I am sure the noble Baroness is aware, our ambitions for the deployment of renewables for nuclear and for hydrogen. I can assure noble Lords that the Government will never compromise our security of supply: that remains our primary consideration. But our understanding of what the future energy system will look like and the level of the demand that we will need to meet through electrification will essentially and inevitably evolve over time. So, we are not targeting a particular solution, but we rely on competition to spur investment in the different technologies and new ways of working, and new technologies such as more efficient batteries et cetera are coming onstream every day. We will closely take all these matters under consideration. We take the view that the Government’s role is to ensure the market framework is there and that encourages effective competition and, at the same time, delivers a secure and reliable system.

Finally, let me thank the noble Lords, Lord Howell and Lord Teverson, the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones and Lady Hayman, for their valuable contributions to the debate. I assure my noble friend Lord Howell that we are working internationally with the US, with the EU and with our other partners to produce a secure and reliable energy system together. In response to the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, I am sure he will be pleased to hear that through the £385 million advanced nuclear funds, we are providing funding to support research and development for precisely the small modular reactor designs that the noble Viscount wishes to see, and we are progressing plans to build an advanced modular reactor demonstration by the early 2030s at the latest. Therefore, with the reassurances that I have been able to provide, I hope that noble Lords will not press their amendments.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I apologise for not thanking the Minister for meeting us earlier today; that was helpful. To answer one or two points, the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, asked about what Boris Johnson said when he was Prime Minister—up to yesterday, or today. He raised questions about power stations being built and the figure of one a year for however many years necessary, and not being sure what power stations there were. The PM was never really good on detail and I think this proves that point. That does require some clarification.

The bigger point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Howell, and the Minister was in relation to the preambles. They asked: why these preambles? They are a combination, if you like, of the preambles to the climate change and sustainability Act and the Energy Act 2013, as the Minister pointed out. They seek to give some definition, some guidance, to what the Bill is intended to achieve, as opposed to its rather rambling, ongoing, imprecise nature. It is not so much that the Bill is objectionable; it is just not adequate to achieve what it intends.

We will look at this before Report. With those few comments, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, Amendments 11,12 and 13 in my name would all strengthen the relationship between Ministers and the economic regulator by insisting that the Secretary of State and the economic regulator are bound by the listed regulatory principles and the need to contribute to achieving sustainable development rather than just having regard to them. Further, they would oblige a Minister to be bound by their duties as a Minister, as opposed to just having regard for them. They would also require the economic regulator to be bound by the need to assist the Secretary of State, compliant with its duties and targets. It is not sufficient to have regard to these matters; it is important to be bound by them. Can the Minister say what “have regard to” means if not to be bound by them?

Amendments 15 and 16 espouse that the Bill does not specifically include carbon capture usage. To add to the example given by the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, in January 2021, the major US oil company Chevron announced that it had made investments in the San Jose-based corporation Blue Planet Systems—then a start-up—which manufactures and develops carbon aggregates and carbon capture technology intended to reduce the carbon intensity of industrial operations. Blue Planet Systems manufactures carbon-based building aggregate from flue-gas-captured CO₂. These amendments aim to encourage the use of captured carbon as opposed to its storage.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I thank everyone who has contributed to this short debate. Addressing the amendments in turn, I will start with Amendment 8, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell, and my old friend the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, who is very conciliatory today—I am suspicious; something has happened to him over the summer, but I am sure that we will get the old noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, back before we get much further into the debate.

This amendment seeks to amend the principal objective applying to the Secretary of State and the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority in respect of consumer protections. Under the current drafting of this principal objective, it is for the Secretary of State or the economic regulator to protect the interests of consumers who they consider may be affected by regulatory decisions. This drafting is intended to ensure that the economic regulator and Secretary of State have discretion as to the consumer impacts that are taken into account. While the noble Lord’s and the noble Baroness’s amendment is intended to ensure that only actual or likely impacts are taken into account, we consider that the existing drafting already provides for this. Therefore, I submit that the amendment is unnecessary.

I turn next to Amendment 9, which is also in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell, and the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, joined on this occasion by the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett. The amendment as drafted would place an additional principal objective on the Secretary of State and the economic regulator to assist in the delivery of the net-zero objective. I know that we have had this discussion on a number of Bills, but I will reiterate that, under the Climate Change Act 2008, the Secretary of State is already bound by law to ensure that the targets to reduce greenhouse gas emissions are met.

Under Clause 1(6), the economic regulator is required to have regard to the need to assist the Secretary of State in complying with his duties to achieve carbon emissions reduction targets and to have regard to these targets in each of the devolved Administrations. I therefore submit that the economic regulator is already required to take these net-zero targets into account in its regulatory determinations.

Next, I turn to Amendment 10, proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson. This amendment seeks to ensure that cross-subsidy of carbon dioxide transport and storage activities, from users of other networks, is avoided. Clause 1 of the Bill establishes the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority as the economic regulator of carbon dioxide transport and storage. It also establishes the principal objectives and general duties for the Secretary of State and the economic regulator in the exercise of their respective functions in relation to the economic regulation of carbon dioxide transport and storage.

The principal objectives in Clause 1 include protecting the interests of current and future users of the network and those of consumers. In relation to the regulation of gas and electricity, the Secretary of State and the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority remain bound by the principal objectives to, respectively, protect the interests of current and future consumers in relation to gas conveyed through pipes, and in relation to electricity conveyed by distribution systems. Different principal objectives are appropriate to reflect that the objectives for carbon dioxide transport and storage networks are different from those of the gas and electricity networks.

Under the provisions in the Bill, the economic regulator should be able to take into account, in its decision-making in relation to CO₂ transport and storage activities, any impacts on users of gas and electricity networks that may arise from those decisions. I hope that the noble Lord is sufficiently reassured on this point.

I move on to Amendment 11, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake. This seeks to ensure that the Secretary of State and the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority are bound by the principles of regulatory best practice and the need to contribute to the achievement of sustainable development. Clause 1 sets out the principal objectives and general duties of the Secretary of State and the economic regulator. The principal objectives are complemented by statutory duties on the Secretary of State and the economic regulator to have regard to certain matters. This includes having regard to principles of regulatory best practice and the need to contribute to the achievement of sustainable development. To have regard to these matters means that the Secretary of State or the economic regulator, as the case may be, must give genuine attention and thought to these matters.

In a complex sector with varying objectives that can sometimes conflict, it is important that the regulator’s duties strike the right balance between setting out all relevant issues and considerations, while giving some necessary discretion to the regulator to balance those considerations in its decision-making process and to have sufficient authority and independence in that decision-making. I hope that explains the point for the benefit of the noble Lord, Lord Lennie.

The formulation of the statutory duty as proposed by the noble Lord and the noble Baroness in our view risks compromising what is quite a delicate balance. The greater the number of statutory duties, and the more binding their nature, the more difficult the act of balancing the different, possibly conflicting, duties becomes. I hope that provides sufficient reassurance.

Amendments 12 and 13, again from the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, also seek to amend the statutory duties applying to the Secretary of State and the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority to ensure that the greenhouse gas emissions reduction targets under the Climate Change Act 2008 are a binding consideration in regulatory determinations. In relation to Amendment 12, as I have already set out, under the Climate Change Act the Secretary of State is already bound by law to ensure that the targets to reduce emissions are met. We therefore do not consider that this amendment is necessary.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the government amendments appear to correct an oversight in the Bill. If noble Lords are confused then so am I. I am not entirely sure what the Minister was saying, but it appears to me that there was a stage missing in the original drafting of this Bill and the attempt now is to put in that stage—which is, in effect, a final warning to licence holders to act in specific ways in order to become compliant. If that is right, then I understand it and I do not oppose it, but I want to make sure that I understand correctly what the Government are trying to do. If I am right then, other than to point out the original omission, we do not oppose these measures; we just want clarification of what is being put into the Bill.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am happy to provide the reassurance that the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, asks for. It was simply a matter where, originally, we intended to take a power to do this through secondary legislation but, as we got to a later stage of drafting on the Bill, we thought that it would be more appropriate to put it in primary legislation. That is normally something that the House asks us to do. We were, on this occasion, trying to pre-empt some of the points that may be made by Peers to say that we should not do so much under powers and secondary legislation and should put it in the Bill—that is in fact what we are doing.

With regard to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on resourcing, it is very early days—we have not even set up the regulator yet—so I cannot give him any specific figures on what resourcing the regulator will have. The Treasury will no doubt want to have considerable input into this, but we will want to make sure that it is appropriately resourced and that we have the appropriate technical abilities, technical inspectors and so on to make sure that this activity is appropriately licensed and enforced and, of course, is safe for operators, personnel and the public.

Trades Union Congress: Levelling Up

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 29th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Believe it or not, the pay levels in Sainsbury’s are nothing to do with the Government—it is a private sector company. If people like the service provided by Sainsbury’s, they will go to that supermarket; if they do not, they will go to others.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, in 2019, across the UK as a whole, one in five jobs were paid less than the real living wage. This figure excludes the self-employed, half of whom earn significantly less than the living wage. For levelling up to have meaning, the TUC has set out recommendations in a report snappily called Levelling Up at Work. Does the Minister agree that it is time that the Government stop fighting the trade unions and work with them to secure jobs across the UK, have decent pay levels and help families overcome the cost of living crisis in this fifth-largest economy in the world?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course we want to work with all employee representatives who are prepared to be constructive and who want to see a positive way forward for the country that does not hold the travelling public to ransom. No doubt the noble Lord will also be delighted to know that we raised the minimum wage again in April and put another £1,000 in the pocket of the lowest-paid workers.

Warm Home Discount (England and Wales) Regulations 2022

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 20th June 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for bringing these proposals, which are an improvement on the previous scheme. I also thank noble Lords for their contributions, in particular the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, who represented the NEA’s concerns about the core group 2 and how some of them will miss out, on the way that the scheme is set up, on the funding sufficiency—or insufficiency—and on the prepayment customer concerns, which the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, also raised. The noble Lord, Lord Best, is an expert on the private rented sector. We share his concerns about that; I will come on to that in what I have to say. The overall theme of the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, is that it represents a failure in public policy that we have to have this scheme in any place, but here we are: we have to have it and this is, as I have said, an improvement.

The Government have said that they intend to bring forward a new set of reconciliation regulations “later this year”, which is better than “when Parliament has time” or “in due course”, but can the Minister be a little more precise about when “later this year” means?

On the criteria and the algorithm used to estimate energy costs, how satisfied is the Minister that the algorithms used will not lead to an education-type embarrassment for the Government and, therefore, a failure in terms of there being lots of customers who potentially would benefit from this scheme but may then miss out? Have the Government included all eligible households, including persons with a disability, in their revised six criteria for the new scheme?

The scheme has an impact on energy suppliers, the authority and the Government. The energy suppliers are likely to recover their costs from their customers, which is estimated to be £19—a £5 increase on the former scheme. The authority and the Government are likely to incur costs of approximately £22 million for their work in issuing notices and identifying customers eligible for core group rebates. The Secretary of State will conduct a review or partial review of the scheme, and the authority will review participation of suppliers in the scheme and publish an annual report. This is welcome.

However, Labour would introduce legislation to uplift the warm home discount for 9 million working families and pensioners during the present inflationary crisis. As the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, pointed out, this is an extraordinary time for energy costs. I am not saying that it could have been predicted but Ukraine is upon us and, therefore, more may well need to be done in the lifecycle of this scheme.

Core group 2, which has replaced the broader group, will not now have to apply for inclusion in the scheme, which is welcome. However, there will be households beyond that group who remain in fuel poverty, such as those in rented accommodation. They may be on low incomes and with disputed levels of energy use, particularly when they have no access to what proportion of the payment they make to their landlords is for energy supply. They may not be receiving benefits, which would usually give them automatic inclusion. It may be impossible for them to contest their exclusion. The Minister’s observations on this would be very welcome.

If an energy company goes into administration or disappears entirely, will the supplier of last resort take on the full obligation of the failed supplier or are there now no small-enough energy suppliers left—that is, those with 50,000 customers—that can go bust? Have they all gone bust already? The recovery of the scheme from customers will mean that, in some cases, energy companies will be recovering money from those who have received the warm home discount, thus giving with the one hand and taking away with the other. Would Minister like to comment on that?

The overall scheme is likely to add to the rise in the socialisation of the expenses of suppliers of last resort, resulting in a probable £100 contribution to the increased price cap. Have the Government considered whether the scheme should be covered by Exchequer funding or by a wider group of people contributing, not just individual customer payers?

In welcoming the progress the Government have made with these changes to the scheme, there are a number of observations on which I would welcome the Minister’s response.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. The context is that, this year, as we all know, we have witnessed an extraordinary increase in the cost of energy. The Government recognise that millions of households across the UK may need further support with the cost of living, in particular energy bills. That is why the Government have so far announced additional support this year worth more than £37 billion, including targeted support for many of those in the groupings we are talking about today—those on the lowest incomes.

All domestic electricity customers in Great Britain will receive £400 off their bills from October through the energy bills support scheme. Meanwhile, more than 8 million households across the UK in receipt of means-tested benefits will also receive £650 as a cost of living payment. Further payments will be made to pensioners and disabled people. The Government remain committed to helping low-income and vulnerable households heat their homes over the coming winter. Although energy efficiency measures provide long-term assistance in reducing energy bills, as the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, reminded us, there is a clear need for direct financial support now. In this context, the warm home discount remains a key part of our overall approach to tackling fuel poverty.

This is the largest expansion of the scheme since it began. In 2021-22, the energy envelope was worth £354 million across Great Britain; in 2022-23, it is rising to £523 million. This scheme will ensure that 2.8 million households in England and Wales receive a rebate off their energy bills each winter right through to 2026. That means that around a third more households than previously will receive a rebate each year. In addition, most will receive their rebates automatically. This means that households will have much more certainty about receiving the payments when they need them most. A large part of my postbag has been people writing to their MPs and then on to me if they have not been selected as part of the core group 2 element; people do not understand how the scheme works.

The Government have recognised the need for certainty about the support to households in Scotland. We recently consulted on an extension and expansion of a separate warm home discount scheme in Scotland. That was as a result of the Scottish Government not being able to make their minds up about whether they wanted to be part of this scheme, not because of any delays on our part. The Government will publish the response shortly and lay the regulations for the scheme in Scotland as soon as possible.

Fire and Rehire

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 15th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The difference is very clear. What P&O did is potentially illegal. Investigations into both criminal and civil wrongdoings are ongoing, so I cannot comment on those particular investigations, but if trade unions are considering holding the travelling public to ransom, as many of them are, then it is right that we should look at all available options, and we will do so.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, British Airways, Accenture, and the DP World-owned P&O Ferries—significant players in the UK economy—have all used fire and rehire to replace their workforce. They have faced down government criticism and the public’s disdain. For this to change, legislation is required to outlaw this practice. Will the Government take a lead by bringing forward a definitive code of practice that bans fire and rehire? Further, will the Government commit now to ensuring that companies found to have been using fire and rehire will neither be awarded contracts for any public body nor be allowed to take over provision of public services?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I said that we are committed to bringing forward a code and we will consult on it shortly, but as I said in response to the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, it is a complicated area of industrial relations and employment law. I assume that even the Labour Party would accept that we cannot ban redundancy if a company is going bankrupt. Therefore, by banning fire and rehire we would end up banning the rehiring part of it, which I am sure nobody wants to see.

Fuel Poverty

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 13th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the government figures are out of date. The chairman of NEA is right: 6.2 million households is nearer the figure than the 3.2 million that the Minister referred to. The pressures of doubling fuel prices on top of this trend will continue to worry householders across the country. In 2015, the Government estimated it would take until 2030—another eight years from now—to end fuel poverty, but on current figures it will take more than 60 years. What new measures are the Government proposing to ensure they get back on track to meet their original deadline of zero fuel poverty by 2030?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The figures that the noble Lord quotes are, of course, using different metrics. There is a big debate about which is the appropriate metric to use, but we can all accept, whatever metric we use, that this a very difficult time and people are suffering. The best route to end fuel poverty is through energy-efficiency measures, and that is why we are spending £6.6 billion this year in precisely targeting energy-efficiency measures—home improvements, retrofits—towards those in society on the lowest incomes, but of course we will need to do more.

Pollution Prevention and Control (Fees) (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2022

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 23rd May 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for putting forward these proposals, which are, as we have heard, rather inconsequential and unremarkable. There is nothing I want to add by way of commentary, but I have a few questions.

First, as the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, asked, can the Minister explain why the fee for specialists has risen at the same time as the fee for non-specialists has fallen? If it is to do with numbers, can he explain the reason for this change in the balance between specialists and non-specialists?

Secondly, the fees received have remained the same as the previous average, £6.2 million. In the Government’s assessment, is this is likely to remain the case for the foreseeable future, bearing in mind what the noble Lord has said?

Thirdly, while I understand that no formal representations were made by the industry regarding OPRED’s plans, can the Minister say whether any informal opinions were given and whether the industry as a whole is satisfied by the proposals? I look forward to his response.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their brief contributions to this debate, which reflect the relatively uncontroversial nature of the regulations. As I said in my introduction, the regulations will enable OPRED to recover its costs for the provision of regulatory services under the offshore oil and gas environmental legislative regime, as opposed to the alternative—those costs being borne by the taxpayer.

The annual fees income is, on average, £6.2 million, which represents around 65% of the cost of running OPRED’s environmental operations unit. The total running cost of around £10 million per year includes the cost of the office in Aberdeen and corporate support provided from London.

In terms of chargeable activities, OPRED considers the environmental implications of all offshore oil and gas operations before issuing permits and consents covering areas as diverse as seismic surveys, marine licences, oil pollution emergency plans, chemical permits, oil discharge permits and consents to locate permissions for offshore installations. OPRED reviews around 3,000 applications for permits and consents annually. In addition, there is a regular programme of monitoring and inspections to ensure compliance with environmental regulations.

As I said in my introduction, in line with the Treasury’s Managing Public Money guidance, OPRED does not charge for policy work—for example, the enacting of new or revisions to existing offshore environmental legislation—and nor is OPRED able to charge for enforcement activity, such as prosecutions. OPRED is proposing the fees regulations pursuant to a power that requires an affirmative procedure. This is because the changes allowing OPRED to recoup the costs for the provision of regulatory services are not alterations to reflect changes in the value of money.

Questions were asked by both my noble friend Lady McIntosh and the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, about what proportion of the workforce are specialists, compared with non-specialists. Both also asked for an explanation of the fee rise for specialists and the reasons for the change. The revisions to the hourly rates reflect changes to OPRED’s staffing levels and associated costs, plus corporate costs such as IT, accommodation, human resources and finance, which are allocated on a per-head basis. There are 53 staff who work in the offshore environmental unit, of whom 40 are environmental specialists and 13 are non-specialists. The reduction for non-specialists is largely due to a reduction in London corporate costs; the increase for specialists relates to an increase in the cost for advice from statutory nature conservation bodies.

The question from the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, was nothing to do with these regulations, but I am happy to take it back to the department and send the noble Lord a reply in writing. As I said in my introduction, about 45% of the cost of running OPRED is currently recovered from the offshore hydrocarbons sector through these fees.

With the exception of the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, to whom I will write, I hope I have answered the questions raised by noble Lords—the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and my noble friend Lady McIntosh. Therefore, I commend the draft fees regulations to the Committee.

European Research Council

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 27th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The Northern Ireland protocol is a completely separate agreement. It is different from the agreement that the EU signed. I am sorry, but we should not accept the EU’s excuses on this. The EU signed an agreement, and it should abide by it. I wish that noble Lords would sometimes be on the UK’s side rather than wanting to see fault in everything that we do. We should allocate the blame where it belongs.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

We should all live by the agreements that we sign. Should the European research grants be withdrawn from the UK-based researchers, have the Government sought or received any assurances that these grants will be restored once associate membership of the Horizon Europe programme is re-achieved?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The UK has provided a guarantee to all those researchers. If the ERC continues to say that they will not be eligible for grants, as long as the EU itself refuses to agree participation in the Horizon programme, then the Government have said that we will guarantee all those researchers’ grants.

International Energy Agency Report

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 26th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We are seeking to end imports of Russian oil by the end of this year. We already have one of the fastest transition periods to electric vehicles in the western world; we will ban the sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2030. We are already rolling out more efficient vehicles, although we should be aware of the cost of these to many families at the moment.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the International Energy Agency report contains useful recommendations for citizens to use energy more efficiently and highlights the many benefits of doing so, but the Government do not seem to be leading by example. Why did the energy security strategy fail to deliver in this area and what steps will the Government take to ensure that sensible personal decisions are backed by them?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course, it was regrettable that we did not manage to include some more insulation measures within the energy security strategy, but the Government always back people to take responsible decisions, as I mentioned in my Answer to the noble Lord, Lord Rooker. We want to support people to make responsible choices, whether in heating their home, in travelling or in their personal circumstances.

Energy Storage Capacity

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 5th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Indeed, I am aware of the excellent Dinorwig facility. I remember studying it when I was an engineering student many years ago and it is an incredible feat of engineering. The noble Lord can be reassured that the capacity market auction has already secured enough standby capacity market supplies, through to 2025-26. We are aware of the point about Dinorwig.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, given that in the last year energy storage capacity increased to record levels, which is something the Government can be congratulated on, what are they doing to turn this into savings for hard-pressed consumers, who are already dealing with a cost of living crisis that is not of their making?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As I responded to my noble friend earlier, more storage is not the answer to high prices at the moment. It benefits the system in the longer term. Sadly, in energy policy, nothing happens in the near future and everything is long term. The noble Lord is aware of the £9.1 billion package of support that the Chancellor announced to try to mitigate the effect of high prices at the moment.

Electricity Supplier Payments (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 21st March 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his explanation of the regulations before the House. They are essentially non-controversial and, on this lonely side of the House, we do not take issue with them. As we have heard, the regulations update the rates for the operational costs levy and settlement costs levy, which fund the operational costs of the LCCC and the Electricity Settlements Company, respectively. As these two private companies share staff and facilities, these levies are set together.

After a single year of unpredictably and reduced electricity demand during the pandemic, first, it is welcome that this process has been able to return to a three-year system, allowing stakeholders greater visibility of the estimated operational costs, as well as reducing the administrative burdens on the two companies and on us here. Given the situation, it was sensible to reduce the periodicity, and I am glad that we have returned to normal.

Both the LCCC’s contracts for difference and the Electricity Settlements Company’s capacity market are measures that encourage low-carbon electricity generation and ensure security of supply, which is a noble intention. As my colleagues in both Houses have argued whenever these issues have arisen, since these arrangements came into place in 2013, a levy system, which will be passed on to customers by the electricity firms, is possibly the most regressive way of making these arrangements. The figures involved are certainly not large, as the noble Lord, Lord Oates, said, especially when looking only at the impact on the yearly changes, as is the case with the explanatory notice, but with energy bills increasing substantially amid a wider cost-of-living crisis, it is certainly the case that every little bit helps. Has the Minister therefore given any consideration to other methods that could facilitate the costs of these arrangements not falling on the customer?

I would also like to ask some questions about the consultation that took place ahead of the laying of this regulation, both on questions coming from it and the consultation itself. The consultation ran for four weeks and received only one response, from Scottish Power. While the perspective of this large stakeholder was welcome, I am sure the Minister would agree that having a single response to any consultation is not ideal. It is no fault of Scottish Power, but there were gaps in the responses leaving questions mostly unanswered, and inherent biases from a single respondent were unavoidable. Perhaps when this is revisited in three years’ time, the Minister could consider a longer consultation for a broader spectrum of responses to be generated.

One aspect of Scottish Power’s response that I would like to pick up upon surrounds budget lines related to providing policy support to BEIS, which Scottish Power recommended be kept under review. In their response, the Government committed to returning funds allocated here to suppliers. As this is the case with any unused funds, will unallocated funds from this aspect be ring-fenced for return, and, more importantly —as the noble Lord, Lord Oates, has said—will steps be taken to ensure that this is passed on to customers, given that any adjustment to their bills will have already been enacted?

It was also pointed out that the year-on-year budget rises are not insignificant, reaching approximately 40% over the four years from this financial year to the last of the three years this regulation covers. The Government rightly say that this is not unprecedented, given that at least in the case of the Electricity Settlement Company, the Explanatory Memorandum suggests that the body has only become more efficient, but I would be grateful if the Minister could elaborate a little on where the cost increases come from.

I look forward to the Minister’s responses to these questions.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank the noble Lords, Lord Lennie and Lord Oates, for their contributions to this brief debate. The noble Lord, Lord Oates, is of course quite right to raise the issue of the publication of the five-year review, especially since I told him last year that it was going to be ready shortly—I am sure there could be a big debate on what “shortly” means in the context of government. If I may fill in a little more detail for the noble Lord, I understand that updated advice on the matter is currently with my colleague Greg Hands, the Minister for Energy, Clean Growth and Climate Change. I think he intends to publish the review in due course—I hope, shortly.

The noble Lord also, rightly, asked for an explanation of why the review is so delayed. I can certainly say that it has of course been a government priority to deliver on our commitment to open the largest ever CfD allocation round—I am sure that is something he would agree on—and it has been announced that the rounds will be running annually from March 2023. A lot of work has gone into the preparation behind that. Schemes such as CfD are vital in developing domestic sources of renewable energy to reduce our exposure to volatile global fossil fuel markets, which are of course peaking at the moment, and to protect consumers in the longer term. Delivering on those priorities has had an unfortunate knock-on impact on the publication of the review, but we will endeavour to get it out as quickly as possible.

The noble Lord also asked for an update on the hydrogen business model. Of course, it is not part of this statutory instrument, but I would be very happy to write to him separately. I can certainly confirm that we are not intending to fund hydrogen under this particular mechanism or under the Energy Act 2013, so it falls outside the scope of today’s debate.

On the noble Lord’s questions on inflation, we have used a somewhat optimistic assessment of 5% inflation for each year of the proposed budgets. That was after careful consideration of the forecasts produced by the Office for Budget Responsibility. They probably looked very sensible when it put its advice together, but it suggested that, on balance, an assumption of 5% was appropriate.

Shale Gas Production

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 15th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government’s consideration of fracking is a potentially dangerous and risky policy that neither addresses the real concerns about future affordable energy supplies nor contributes to achieving our net-zero targets. Surely, a better way to proceed would be to reintroduce government support for onshore wind as a cheap and generally reliable fuel source—it was abandoned by the then Conservative Government in 2015. Will the Government now reconsider this damaging decision by reinstating their support for major onshore wind farm developments?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As the noble Lord is aware, there was a further contracts for difference round held in December and onshore wind was able to bid into it. We will be announcing decisions on that shortly.

Revised Energy National Policy Statements

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The whole purpose of these national policy statements is to try to speed up the planning process in the first place by setting a national framework within which the local decisions can be taken. As with all these things, it is a question of getting the balance right. Of course we want to try to speed up the process, but the problem with energy policy is that it takes many years, if not decades, to put the infrastructure in place.

We are announcing, we hope, some progress on new nuclear and passing new legislation in the next few months to enable it but we will not see the fruits of that until the early 2030s. The process for the infrastructure which we see in place now was put in place 10 or 12 years ago. The reason that we have a problem with nuclear now—I am sorry to bring it back to party politics—was because when Labour came into office in 1997, that Government ruled out new nuclear. Tony Blair said in the manifesto “We see no case for new nuclear”. Now, that is a party-political point and I think many Labour Members now think that was a mistake—maybe it was right in the context of the time but it was probably a mistake. Correcting these mistakes takes many decades in order to get the infrastructure in place.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

If I may reinforce the point I made, if it takes eight years to get consent for something, that is eight years before the first brick is laid, as it were. If that period can be foreshortened, the fruits of the labour can be brought forward accordingly.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We are always open to finding new ways of speeding these things up, but you also have to take into account the concerns of local communities which have to put up with this infrastructure and try to mitigate the effects on them.

I return to the point that my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe asked me about heritage coal. I am very well aware of this issue; I am told that my noble friend Lady Bloomfield is a hero in the heritage railway community because she was able to write to them to say that heritage coal would still be available to them to operate their railways. There are many sources of coal apart from Russia. Significant quantities of coal are still produced in Germany and Poland, so I am confident that they will still be able to get the coal to power their excellent machines. I do not think anybody, even the most committed climate zealot, would object to the relatively small quantities that they would use for their heritage equipment.

National Living Wage

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 17th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point. I am disappointed by some of the responses from the Opposition Benches. As always with these matters, it is a question of getting the balance right. Of course, we all want to see the lowest paid in society paid more—nobody would want to see that more than I would and I am sure my noble friend feels the same way—but we have to bear in mind the importance of considering whether it is affordable for business. That is why we have the independent Low Pay Commission that makes recommendations on the maximum level of increase that can be afforded without undue inflationary impacts and is affordable for business.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

I remind noble Lords—before the Minister takes too much credit for it—that it was the Labour Government who introduced the national minimum wage and that it was introduced against universal hostility from the Tory Opposition. Given the doubling of energy prices expected in April, does the Minister believe that the rise in the minimum wage to £9.50 an hour will be sufficient for ordinary household budgets to cope?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Indeed, I am happy to pay credit to the Labour Government of the time for introducing the national minimum wage and I am happy to take credit for the biggest increases in the national minimum wage that we, as a Conservative Government and a Conservative-led Government, have implemented since we came to power. As I said, these are difficult issues. We all want to see it increasing; that is why we have the independent Low Pay Commission to provide independent advice to the Government on what is affordable for business. We are working towards the manifesto commitment to increase the level to two-thirds of national median pay.

Construction Sector: Roadmap to Zero Retentions

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 15th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a very good point. The vast majority of government departments no longer use retention clauses. The main exception to that is the Department for Education, and I continue to urge it to follow the lead of other departments in this regard.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, in April, eight months ago, the Government stated:

“The Government, in conjunction with the Construction Leadership Council, is working to identify a sustainable strategy on retentions for the whole construction sector.”


Will the Minister update the House on where the strategy is? There may not be legislation, but is the strategy coming out?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

There are a lot of different factors to take into consideration. This is a complicated area with widely differing views across the sector. In considering the abolition of this contractual practice, there would need to be the development of alternative surety products for the whole industry. That could mean the adaption of existing products, such as performance bonds, or the introduction of new products. It may also involve a range of different products. It is a complicated area, but we continue to take forward work with the Construction Leadership Council.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am delighted to see that the noble Lord has turned up well dressed to ask such a noble question—he puts the rest of us to shame. My understanding is that the Ministry of Defence is one of the central government departments that has done much to abolish the use of retentions in its contracts.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

I will try again: could the Minister say whether he agrees or disagrees that retentions in the construction industry are an appropriate or proportionate mechanism for ensuring quality and fair payment?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I can answer that question by saying what we have done in central government in my department: we have substantially abolished them. Most government departments have now got rid of them and only the Department for Education is a laggard. We would be better to do without them, but that is not the same as moving towards a statutory ban.

Newport Wafer Fab

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 6th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord tempts me but I cannot go any further than I have already stated. This takeover is being reviewed by the National Security Adviser, and we hope to reach a decision shortly.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, while there can be no doubting the strategic importance to our national security of the part played by Newport Wafer Fab, can the Minister explain why the Government did not intervene in a takeover earlier this year? Could he tell the House what tools the National Security Adviser will have at his disposal that could be applied when the ongoing review is completed?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am not sure to which takeover the noble Lord refers that we did not intervene in—perhaps we should have a separate conversation about that. But it is clear that the Government as a whole have substantial power. As I said, the new NSI Act comes in on 4 January, when it will be commenced, but we have retrospective powers that can go back to November 2020 under that Act.

Companies (Strategic Report) (Climate-related Financial Disclosure) Regulations 2021

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 30th November 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

We shall see, my Lords. We debate these regulations on the back of the most important summit the UK has ever held—a summit which future generations will look back on as when we either met the moment or missed the opportunity. It is increasingly clear that progress at COP 26 was modest and, too often, action will come too late. The Climate Action Tracker has stated that Glasgow commitments mean that, rather than limiting warming to the target 1.5 degrees, we are on track for a devastating 2.4-degree rise.

This is the backdrop to which we debate these regulations, which I hope have not come too late, as they will play an essential part in reaching net zero by 2050, as well as ensuring businesses both mitigate the risks of climate change and seize opportunities.

Today’s instrument introduces new reporting obligations for certain UK registered companies, as the Minister explained, including certain listed companies and companies with more than 500 employees and a turnover of more than £500 million, which require them to report climate-related financial information as part of their strategic report. This is in line with the recommendations of the task force on climate-related financial disclosures—a framework which includes 11 recommendations forming, as we have heard, four pillars: governance, strategy, risk management, and metrics and targets.

Support has been coalescing around these recommendations. The TCFD’s latest annual status report states that the number of organisations endorsing the task force’s recommendations has increased to more than 2,600—an annual increase of 70%.

We should remember that, regardless of the serious impact on migration, security and hunger, climate chaos is also costly. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change estimates $69 trillion in global financial losses by 2100 from a 2-degree warming scenario.

Getting to this point has taken a while, and climate delay has been a repeated issue with this Government. The task force on climate-related financial disclosures published its recommendations back in 2017. Then the UK Government’s green finance strategy set out an expectation that all listed companies and large asset owners should disclose in line with the TCFD’s recommendations back in 2019, but did not hold a consultation on the proposals until earlier this year. As we have heard, these new requirements are to come into force next April, 2022—five years after the task force on climate-related financial disclosures published its recommendations.

According to BEIS, regulatory action is necessary because the current voluntary approach

“is unlikely to be effective … current levels of disclosure across the economy are low and reporting quality varies significantly.”

If we look in detail at the impact assessment, this is clear. Looking at the central scenario for additional groups having to comply with reporting requirements, it reveals that only 34% of the 1,350 companies in scope have already aligned with governance, 24% with risk management and only 14% with scenario analysis. The impact assessment estimates that 1,350 companies are in scope of the regulations. Can the Minister tell us what percentage of the UK economy this covers?

The impact assessment states that

“When a UK group is in scope, all the subsidiaries (UK and overseas) belonging to the same UK group, would be expected to hold some degree of reporting burden.”


What does “some degree” mean? These regulations also focus on companies producing mandatory qualitative scenario analysis. The impact assessment states that the Government

“understand that while some companies might decide to go beyond these requirements … there will be some companies that lack the expertise, resources and capabilities to undertake quantitative scenario analysis by the time these regulations come into force.”

How many companies are predicted to produce quantitative analysis as well? What will be done to encourage both qualitative and quantitative analysis to be produced? When does the Minister expect quantification to be phased in?

It is regrettable that, first, we are unable to study the non-binding guidance alongside these regulations and, secondly, that the LLPs regulations have not been laid at the same time as this SI, due to their interlinking nature. The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee flagged this SI as an instrument of interest:

“We note that the Department will produce guidance on the new reporting requirements which, according to the Impact Assessment, will be around 125 pages long. This suggests a considerable degree of complexity. In the absence of the actual guidance, it is difficult to form a view of the nature and extent of the new reporting requirements, and how robust the Department’s assessment of the impact on businesses is.”


Does the Minister agree that there will be a “considerable degree of complexity”? Why is the guidance not ready for today’s debate? In the consultation stage impact assessment, the Government had assumed that guidance would be about 75 pages long. Why has this increased by 50 pages according to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee’s report?

The Government state that the combined impact on business of these regulations and those which apply to LLPs is £145.3 million. The impact assessment states that costs result from companies needing

“to get familiar with BEIS Guidance, TCFD Guidance and other companies’ disclosures before producing their own report”,

as well as ongoing costs which include collecting and processing information, strategy and risk management. How are the Government communicating to and supporting businesses with this additional cost?

I would like some clarification from the Minister on enforcement. The impact assessment states that:

“We also expect there to be an additional ongoing cost of monitoring, supervision and enforcement to the Financial Reporting Council (FRC) as the appropriate regulating body for disclosures”,


but is the FRC properly resourced to take on this additional burden? Can the Minister explain how the Government will work closely with the Financial Conduct Authority and the Financial Reporting Council to ensure monitoring and enforcement frameworks operate in a coherent and complementary way? What happens if these companies fail to follow these obligations or publish substandard information? Will there be fines? The impact assessment states that “reporting quality varies significantly”, as the Minister said, so can these regulations ensure that this does not continue to be the case? A review before 6 April 2027 is welcome, but the impact assessment states that there will be “a light touch review” in 2023. What will this consist of?

I end by speaking about small and medium-sized enterprises. As the impact assessment states,

“Climate change poses significant risks to businesses,”

and we have to include SMEs within that statement. The cost implication of these risks means that SMEs can be even more exposed to the risks and to being squeezed out of the opportunities of climate change. Does the Minister see these obligations being extended to SMEs soon? The impact assessment states,

“disclosure can have cascade effects through the supply chain”.

Can the Minister confirm they are not just relying on trickle-down climate economics to see a change in reporting behaviour for SMEs? The cost implications for SMEs make it essential that the Government have a strategy to support them.

To conclude, these regulations are welcome, but they represent only a small part of the picture of how the Government need to help businesses respond to the risks and opportunities of climate change.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank both noble Lords. I know that they had some questions, which I will come on to shortly, but both their contributions emphasised how much support there is for these regulations. Although people have concerns about the detail, I think that we are at one in terms of general principles. That reflects the fairly broad support we have for introducing them.

The Government appreciate that these regulations will entail some additional costs to the UK’s largest companies, but we think that the legal targets we have make it essential for us to act if we are to achieve net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. The process of preparing the disclosures required by these regulations will help businesses to understand their climate-related risks and opportunities, and will bring a greater focus on how to manage them. The increased transparency will enable investors to make better-informed decisions about where to allocate capital in a consistent and climate-positive manner.

The proposals take account of business capabilities and business readiness. For instance, the introduction of qualitative scenario analysis allows companies to use this important tool to manage climate risks in a way that encourages capabilities to grow over time.

The noble Lord, Lord Vaux, raised the concern that annual reports and accounts are becoming more and more full of ESG information, such that it is sometimes hard to see the wood from the trees. He asked whether my department could commit to keeping the regulations under review in the interim. I can tell him that the Government will indeed review the effectiveness of these provisions. If we see that they are not working, we will certainly look at taking further measures. We will conduct a statutory review of the regulations after five years, as is normal.

In response to the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, I can tell him that we are publishing non-binding Q&A style guidance targeted to help companies making the disclosures. It provides clarification on the disclosures against each of these specific requirements. There is, in fact, already significant background material on how to disclose according to TCFD, which itself has recommendations and guidance available online. There is also, by way of background material, the existing guidance from the Financial Conduct Authority on the climate-disclosure provisions in the UK listing rules, and indeed from the Department for Work and Pensions on the disclosure requirements that exist for pension funds.

The department assumed to model costs that companies might read 125 pages for familiarisation before making the appropriate climate disclosures. We hope and anticipate that BEIS’s Q&A guidance on the regulations, which explains their legal requirements and desirable outcomes, will be well short of that page total. However, companies might want to consult wider background material and information to familiarise themselves with the disclosures. Accordingly, we made that assumption in our cost modelling to ensure that our impact assessment did not underestimate the true cost of these regulations to business. As I said, we appreciate that there will be a cost to implementing them.

On the point the noble Lord raised about monitoring and enforcement, the FRC will take on the monitoring of the climate-related disclosures alongside the other contents of the strategic report. The Government consulted earlier this year on reforms to the FRC. We will publish a response to that White Paper and our plans to create ARGA very shortly.

The responses to the consultation showed that many respondents considered that scenario analysis is important for meaningful climate disclosures. However, they also recognised that it is one of the most challenging and costly aspects of the TCFD to implement. We believe that requiring qualitative disclosures strikes an appropriate balance between, on the one hand, requiring companies to consider this important element in business planning, and, on the other, recognising that this is an emerging area of competence and one that will be new to many businesses and companies. So, although some companies are already doing quantitative scenario analysis to produce excellent disclosures, we did not believe that all companies within scope would be able to produce such analysis at this time; therefore, the regulations take a proportionate approach to enable businesses to grow their capabilities.

Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Act 2008 (Amendment to Schedule 3) (England) Order 2021

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 30th November 2021 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, I beg to move that the draft Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Act 2008 (Amendment to Schedule 3) (England) Order 2021, which was laid before the House on 1 November 2021, be approved.

This instrument will add Part 2A of the of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984, as it applies to England, to Schedule 3 to the Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Act 2008. The reason for adding Part 2A to Schedule 3 to RESA is that it brings Part 2A and regulations made under it within the scope of the primary authority scheme as it applies in England. From now on, I will refer to Part 2A of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 simply as “Part 2A”. I will also refer to the Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Act 2008 as “RESA”, and to the primary authority scheme as “the scheme”.

As I am sure noble Lords will recognise, businesses operating in the UK need to comply with a wide range of legislation, much of which is enforced by local authorities. The scheme has been developed to assist businesses and allow them to receive tailored support in relation to one or more specific areas of law. With a dedicated team, a primary authority partnership makes it easier for businesses to comply with the law, reducing the costs of compliance without reducing regulatory protections. Businesses can invest in products, practices and procedures, knowing that the resources they devote to compliance are recognisable throughout the country across local authority boundaries, resulting in a consistent approach.

Advice provided by the primary authority carries legal weight and provides assurance for the business when dealing with other local authorities that regulate it. The area of law that we are concerned with today is public health regulation. Bringing Part 2A within the scheme will ensure that businesses in England can received assured advice, referred to as “primary authority advice”, on complying with public health regulations made under Part 2A, including in the context of a future pandemic.

Let me now address each of these areas in more detail. I will start with an explanation of Part 2A and its addition to Schedule 3 of RESA, before providing more detail about the scheme. I will also briefly outline the support that the order has already received.

First, Part 2A enables action to be taken to deal with cases of infection or contamination presenting significant harm to human health, if and when they arise. Under Part 2A, a local authority can, where necessary, apply to a magistrate for a range of orders to reduce or remove risks arising from persons, things or premises that are or may be infectious or contaminated and which could present significant harm to health and a risk that others might be infected or contaminated. This is known as a Part 2A order. It is intended to be used as a last resort when other interventions by the local authority have either failed or are not suitable. A magistrate may grant a Part 2A order to a local authority if they are satisfied that the criteria set out in the Health Protection Regulations 2010 are met. Part 2A also provides powers for regulations to be made in an emergency to address a serious and imminent threat to public health.

Secondly, I will explain why Part 2A, as it applies in England, needs to be added to Schedule 3 to RESA. As noble Lords have heard, the order effects the inclusion of Part 2A in the primary authority scheme. To be within scope of the scheme, legislation must be listed in Schedule 3 to RESA, or be made under legislation listed in Schedule 3, or under Section 2(2) of the European Communities Act 1972. It must relate to certain specified matters and be enforced by local authorities. RESA requires any amendments to Schedule 3 to be made using the draft affirmative procedure for statutory instruments.

If Part 2A is not added to Schedule 3 of RESA, it would be necessary to amend Schedule 3 on an individual basis to bring each regulation made under Part 2A within scope of the scheme. This would delay the provision of primary authority advice at the time of a public health emergency. In contrast, by bringing Part 2A and regulations made under it within the scope of the scheme, businesses in England will be able to obtain primary authority advice on compliance with public health regulations from the outset of a public health emergency.

Thirdly, I will briefly describe the primary authority scheme. This was established under RESA and has been in operation since 2009. It was created in response to the Hampton report of 2005, which noted widespread inconsistencies of regulatory interpretation between different local authorities. RESA establishes a statutory framework for a business to form a partnership with a local authority—which becomes the primary authority—for it to receive support from that primary authority in respect of complying with regulations introduced under a relevant enactment. Once a partnership has been nominated by the Secretary of State, the primary authority can issue tailored advice to the business on compliance with legislation in scope of the scheme. The receipt of primary authority advice enables businesses to avoid the cost and regulatory burden associated with inconsistent interpretation and application of the law by different local authorities in respect of the same regulatory requirements.

Where a local authority is proposing to take enforcement action against a business, the primary authority will review the proposed action and consider whether it is consistent with previous primary authority advice. In the event of any disagreement between the primary authority and a local authority over whether the proposed enforcement action is consistent with the original primary authority advice, the Secretary of State is empowered to make a determination.

There are many benefits to the scheme. Primary authority partnerships facilitate a more productive and proactive regulatory relationship between businesses and local authorities. The public also benefit when businesses properly comply with regulations. There are benefits for local authorities as well. If one local authority—the primary authority—provides a business with robust, reliable and consistent advice, it will allow other local authorities to target their resources more effectively, thereby avoiding duplication. Transparency is maintained via a central register through which local authorities can search for primary authority advice. Finally, the scheme gives regulators greater clarity as to where responsibility lies. It improves the consistency of local regulation and supports local economic growth through stronger business relationships.

Finally, let me highlight that there has been strong support among business stakeholders, local authorities and trade associations for the addition of Part 2A to Schedule 3 to RESA. The challenges that local authorities recently experienced in interpreting, at pace, regulations made under Part 2A to reduce the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, and the associated burdens experienced by businesses in trying to comply with these differing interpretations, led to calls for Part 2A to be brought within scope of the scheme. For example, in November 2020 the British Retail Consortium, which represents over 170 major retailers, wrote to the then Business Secretary, Alok Sharma, requesting that Part 2A be brought within scope. This was in the context that in 2020 approximately 46,000 businesses with an existing primary authority partnership received informal advice on coronavirus regulations made under Part 2A.

In conclusion, we are introducing this order to bring Part 2A, as it applies in England, within scope of the scheme. As I have said, the aim is to ensure that businesses in England will be able to obtain primary authority advice on compliance with regulations made under Part 2A from the outset of any future public health emergency. Due to the Covid-19 pandemic, which is unfortunately unlikely to be the last public health emergency this country will face, there is strong recognition among business stakeholders, local authorities and trade associations of the benefit of bringing Part 2A within scope of the scheme. I therefore commend this order to the Committee.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, as we have heard, these regulations extend the scope of the primary authority scheme, as provided under the Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Act 2008, to include regulations made under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 that deal with public health protection. The Government have said that this will have the effect of enabling businesses to form primary authority partnerships with local authorities in England in relation to public health protection, including in the context of a future pandemic.

The Explanatory Memorandum reveals quite a startling statistic: there is a 5% likelihood, in any given year, of a pandemic. It also states that it is estimated that a severe pandemic, of high mortality, will occur at a 2% rate per year and a less severe pandemic, of low mortality, will occur at a 3% rate per year. Can the Minister explain whether this likelihood has increased due to the Covid pandemic we are experiencing? With the knowledge of the 5% figure, can he also explain why the Government are dragging their feet over launching the public inquiry into Covid-19?

We must surely learn the lessons of this pandemic as soon as possible, given the scenario predicting a 5% likelihood of pandemics in any future year. This change is clearly taking place in response to the role that business and the private sector have played during the Covid pandemic. What the Government have asked from business and the wider private sector during it is unprecedented in peacetime. We must thank businesses for stepping up when we needed them to do so most.

The Explanatory Memorandum reveals that in 2020, approximately 46,000 businesses with an existing partnership under the primary authority scheme were receiving informal advice on regulations made under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984. The Government have stated that this change will enable these businesses to access consistent and reliable advice on compliance and that business stakeholders, local authorities and trade associations in England have requested this change. Can the Minister repeat how many there were—I am not sure that he told us—and did they include organisations representing small and medium-sized enterprises? Can he also confirm that businesses have struggled to get any reliable advice during the pandemic, and whether there have been any serious consequences from not being able to do so?

The Welsh Government have apparently decided not to apply this statutory instrument to Wales. The First Minister of Wales declined to consent to the amendment in July 2021. Can the Minister explain why, and what type of engagement took place with the Welsh Minister?

The Explanatory Memorandum revealed this:

“The impact on business, charities or voluntary bodies is an expected net benefit to business in England of approximately £20.9 m over 2021 to 2030.”


Can the Minister provide some clarity on how that benefit is expected to be shared between large businesses, SMEs and charities? I look forward to his reply.

National Security and Investment Act 2021 (Monetary Penalties) (Turnover of a Business) Regulations 2021

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 1st November 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for outlining the regulations. I say at the outset that the Labour Party also supports these necessary instruments. Taken together, they provide for the operation and running of the NSI Act and the provision of a safeguard for the UK. The SIs identify, as we have heard, 17 sectors in which national security could be at risk—the so-called sensitive sectors—and establish how the Secretary of State would establish the worth of each business when calculating the value of monetary returns it would be required to make. The offences cover both completing an acquisition without approval and failing to comply with a final order when required to do so, with resultant penalties, as we have heard, of £10 million or 5% of turnover, whichever is the greater, or a daily rate of 0.1% or £200,000.

However, there appears to be no effective early warning system or method to forewarn businesses considering acquiring a business that they may be in breach of these regulations. Have the Government considered putting such a system in place to alert businesses that they may risk putting themselves in breach by continuing with an acquisition?

The current thinking about the destination of the funds raised by this instrument is that they will go to the consolidation fund. Surely more creative thinking is possible, such as using them for the specific purpose of funding start-ups and innovators to help build up UK resilience. Is this set in stone, or could the Government reconsider the destination of the funds and ally them to the problem that the instruments are designed to prevent?

As the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, said, there is also some concern about the breadth of what is captured by this legislation; in particular, the biodiversity sector believes that the definition is cast too wide and covers industries not associated with security matters. Could the Minister look at the concerns raised by the biodiversity sector to be sure that the reach of the regulations is only as broad as is necessary and not more widespread than it needs to be?

Some concerns have been raised about how the Government engaged to build these better regulations. For instance, when considering issuing guidance to particular sectors, which the Minister said would happen shortly, he should be aware that SMEs do not have access to large legal firms to advise them on these matters and therefore require straight, clear guidance rather than obscure, legalistic wording. Can he explain this process to the Government when they are issuing such guidance?

Finally, do the Government believe that food security forms part of national security? I ask because they have shown little interest in the recent takeover of Morrisons, which will in turn undoubtedly act as an encouragement to others to consider similar purchases in this country.

While we support the regulations, they require a more muscular approach in some areas while in others a lighter touch is required. Getting this balance right is tricky but important to the UK’s inward investment programme and opportunities.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords for their valuable contributions to this debate. I will endeavour to respond to the points that were made; first, to those made by the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted, and then to those made by the noble Lord, Lord Lennie.

In response to the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, about the maximum monetary penalties, some businesses may argue for the lowest possible turnover, for obvious reasons, and it is important that the Secretary of State retains the flexibility to set what would be a reasonable and effective fine. Of course, in all decisions the Secretary of State must act reasonably under public law duties, so it does not exactly give him a free pass. However, I am very happy to provide the noble Baroness with reassurance that, if there is any disagreement between the Secretary of State and the business that would be subject to the penalty, it will be for the Secretary of State to determine the relevant turnover in question.

In regard to the noble Baroness’s point about whether penalties are set too low—I do not often get to hear that criticism—the largest penalties are up to £10 million or 5% of turnover, whichever of those is the higher amount. I am sure the noble Baroness will appreciate that, to any business, £10 million is a substantial amount of money. However, as a civil financial penalty, it is only one of the possible forms of punishment. The noble Baroness will be aware that criminal sanctions are also available, and those criminal penalties may well include a prison sentence of up to five years, so we are satisfied that the appropriate disincentives exist to flouting the regulations.

The noble Baroness referred also to some of the sector definitions. I am happy to reassure her that we have engaged extensively on them in a number of different ways. We have changed the descriptions and amended them in communications with regard to qualifying entities carrying on activities in the UK. For critical suppliers to government, two of the five limbs of the definition set out in the government response were amended, and we made some changes in data infrastructure. We clarified some of the infrastructure activities with regard to energy, and, on suppliers to the emergency services, some of the limbs of that definition were amended and narrowed to provide an objective list of activities, as well as in the field of synthetic biology.

On points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, with regard to the funds, as was discussed—these points were also raised in the other place on 20 October—any funds received will go to the consolidated fund, as is standard practice. However, the noble Lord will be aware that we have a wide range of support schemes for businesses in other areas, particularly for establishing new technology.

On publishing the details of clear cases, we are of course required under the Act to publish an annual report setting out the numbers and sectors of cases that are notified and cleared. To ensure that mandatory notification works proportionately and that the Act is future-proof, the Secretary of State will of course keep this under constant review and will seek to amend the list of acquisitions that would be in scope in the future through additional secondary legislation to reflect evolving national security risks and technological changes. The noble Lord will be aware that, following the practice of previous Governments, we have never defined what national security is, and he will also be aware that of course I cannot comment on the additional case that he mentioned.

Both these SIs are essential for the effective operation and running of the NSI Act and for the provision of a safeguard for the United Kingdom. The Government have ensured that the proposed descriptions within the notifiable acquisition regulations will enable potential acquirers to self-identify for the purposes of the mandatory notification requirement.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, also raised the point about communication and the possibility of a helpline. We do not think that that is necessary; officials remain available in the investment screening unit within BEIS for consultations, if necessary, on a confidential basis with businesses both large and small, if anybody is unclear about a particular acquisition. Advice is being provided at the moment and will be provided in future to any business that wants to call or email the team responsible for leading this. Sectoral expertise has been a vital part of the development of these regulations, and we have taken great care and time to get it right.

In response to the comments that the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, made about available support for SMEs, as I said, we continue to engage directly with businesses around the NSI Act. I have done a number of consultation meetings, and I know that officials have done a lot as well. The first tranche of detailed guidance has already been published to assist businesses, investors and advisers in understanding the Act to comply with its requirements. We have established an expert panel, which I have met with on a couple of occasions, as well as officials, which includes business representative organisations, higher education bodies, investment associations and law societies, all of which will have an interest in having these provisions correctly interpreted. They are giving us constant and detailed feedback on the draft guidance and ensuring that the guidance is fit for purpose.

Our second tranche of guidance will be published ahead of regime commencement—as I mentioned, the regime will commence on 4 January—to continue to aid the interaction of parties with the new investment security unit and to ensure compliance, including on how to submit a notification form and guidance around notifiable acquisitions. We are also holding a communications campaign, which will focus on delivering teach-ins and guidance to a wide cross-section of businesses and organisations to build understanding of the Act in the United Kingdom and internationally. The Government have conducted targeted and extensive engagement with organisations which are most likely to be affected by the Act, including companies that invest or acquire entities in the 17 mandatory sectors.

Tailored explanatory materials have been sent to around 100 industry bodies and mandated areas of the economy, 70 major law and financial services firms, 36 international investors and 550,000 businesses via Companies House. We have taken great care to reach small and medium enterprises through associations such as the Federation of Small Businesses, British Chambers of Commerce and the CBI, which, taken together, have networks of something like 580,000 businesses.

I hope that I have been able to provide sufficient clarification and assurance to both noble Lords who spoke on this, and I commend the draft regulations to the Committee.

Audit and Corporate Governance

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 23rd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I do not agree that the audit market is in crisis. Some worthwhile improvements can be made, which is what we are proposing. The noble Lord will see that a full impact assessment is attached to the proposals.

[Lord Lennie (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, further to the question of my noble friend Lord McKenzie, can the Minister confirm that any annual report on the state of the City, as proposed in the report of the noble Lord, Lord Hill, will clearly outline how the dominance of the big four accountancy firms has been reduced?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The big four accountancy firms are important to the regime but we want to introduce more possible competition into it, which is why we are introducing the proposals for shared managed audit to try to bring up the capacity of medium-sized companies.

Global Navigation Satellite System

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 10th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab) [V]]

Following on from the questions from my noble friends Lord West and Lord Stevenson, does OneWeb have a proven PNT capability? How is the Cabinet Office-led review progressing, who is being consulted and when will its findings be published?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

That is the third time that this question has been asked. Government investment in OneWeb was for cutting-edge telecommunications capability based on market analysis. We have always been clear that PNT services were not the rationale for this particular investment.

Uber: Supreme Court Ruling

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Monday 1st March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab) [V]]

The Supreme Court ruling of 19 February was a good day for workers in the gig economy and an embarrassing one for the Government. It has taken four years to get this ruling, with Uber kicking and screaming all the way. During that time, the Government commissioned and received, but then ultimately ignored, a report from Matthew Taylor about workers’ rights in the gig economy.

Either the Government accept that workers must have decent, understandable and contractual rights at work—including receiving at least the national minimum wage—or they do not, in which case workers will continue to be exploited by these huge multinational organisations. Do the Government accept that this ruling must apply to all Uber drivers and those other comparable gig-economy workers, such as those who work for Deliveroo? If not immediately, when precisely will the Government bring forward an employment rights Bill based upon the Taylor report and, by doing so, prevent businesses having to interpret this ruling for themselves?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

The Government are committed to improving the clarity around employment status and to bringing forward an employment Bill, which we will do as soon as possible. The Bill will protect and enhance workers’ rights, promote fairness in the workplace and strengthen workers’ ability to get redress for poor treatment.

Corporate Insolvency and Governance Bill

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard) & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 23rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, straight off the bat, I too welcome the Government’s movement on this specific part of this necessary Bill. There will be a sense of relief for direct benefit pension funds and their trustees, the Pension Protection Fund and the regulator. As has been said, all will now have rights of access to information about the intentions of companies and to voice their opinions about the decisions that are being contemplated; a seat at the table, access to court and so forth. This will be true throughout the UK.

When a company seeks a moratorium or when it considers other actions in a potential redundancy and insolvency circumstance, the monitor will be required to notify the pension scheme, the PPF and the regulator to have due consideration of their views about the proposed action. In the event that a moratorium comes to an end or if the monitor changes, the pension scheme trustees and the PPF must be informed. This will mean in effect that the debts owing to a direct benefit pension scheme do not rank below other finance debts. That would recognise the real status of a pension as deferred earnings and should not allow others to accelerate the debt position at the expense of pension provision, as was feared in the original text. These changes have come about due to the strength of the arguments put by my noble friends Lady Drake and Lady Warwick, the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, on the Liberal Democrat Benches, and the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, and the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, on the Conservative side. I congratulate them on achieving this much.

However, can the Minister provide the reassurance being sought about the value of direct benefit schemes being put at risk by the sale of assets, and ultimately the whole working of the PPF? Will he closely monitor and consult on any necessary remedial actions that may arise from his examination of this issue? The Minister can take the credit due to him for his part in bringing forward these amendments to the Bill, and they are welcome. But can he confirm that the Government will stay alert and ready to intervene on behalf of pensions and the PPF in the event that the measures in this legislation do not go far enough in protecting them?

[Lord Callanan]

My Lords, I take this opportunity to thank everyone who has spoken in this important debate, and I am grateful for Amendment 15 because it is a very important provision. I am also grateful to noble Lords for their continuing efforts to ensure that pensions are treated appropriately through this Bill. None the less, I hope that they will agree that we are now seeking to introduce specific and satisfactory provisions to deal with pensions’ interests.

I also take this opportunity to assure noble Lords that where charged property is disposed of, it can be done only with the permission of the court and where the court believes that it is necessary to support the rescue. Where the court is satisfied and gives its permission, the net proceeds must go towards satisfying the amounts secured by the charge before they can be used in any other way. From a practical perspective, this amendment is not necessary. If a company in a moratorium was going to court to seek permission to dispose of charged assets, it would at the least have had to have had a conversation with the person to whom those assets are charged. Well before giving clearance to the company to dispose of such assets, the court will of course take account of their views at the hearing.

In response to my noble friend Lady Altmann and the noble Lord, Lord Hain, we have been in detailed discussions with colleagues in the DWP, along with both the Pensions Regulator and the Pension Protection Fund, in the formulation of these amendments. We are seeking to ensure that the PPF is able to play a role in a company’s rescue plan where it is appropriate for it to do so. Let me also provide the assurance that the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, was looking for. Of course, we will continue to monitor these arrangements to ensure that they act in the fairest possible way for all the different stakeholders in the process that I referred to earlier.

On that basis, I hope that I have been able to provide sufficient reassurance to noble Lords and that they will feel able to not move their amendments when the time comes. I beg to move.

Corporate Insolvency and Governance Bill

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 16th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I had rather thought that the Minister would speak at the beginning of this debate, as that might have obviated some of the discussion that we have had to have; he has not yet fulfilled what the Report stage amendments will be, based on the letter that he produced last night. There seem to be shared concerns among all speakers about the relative position of debt—finance debt, pension debt—and the weakness of the PPF. Does it or does it not have a seat on the discussion body? Would that be at the beginning of the discussions or, as someone put it, just a cc or copying in of the PPF into the information? Will the risk of gaming through acceleration of a company into insolvency by those who seek to gain from that position be guarded against? And so on.

At this stage, we should at least thank the Minister for his reconsideration in advance of signalling that there will be moves at Report stage. Whether they will be sufficient moves we will have to wait and see. This may not be the last word on these matters, but it may go some way towards putting in place a sensible, if not ideal, position for the PPF and the defined benefit pension scheme trustees, in the event of insolvency moratorium or restructuring plans. It is not yet clear how far he is prepared to go and it is a complex issue, as we have heard from all the speakers.

Secondly, I want to express my huge appreciation and admiration for the noble Baronesses, Lady Drake and Lady Warwick, from the Labour Benches, assisted by the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, and the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, from the Conservatives, in their pursuit of this matter. It is hugely important to everyone that we get this right. The 2004 protection fund legislation was profound, important and lasting. It should not be put at risk by what we are attempting to do in response to the Covid crisis, whether on a temporary or permanent basis. They deserve our thanks and praise for the thorough way in which they have conducted themselves. There is much more to come but, for now, we will have to await the amendments and judge on Report whether those intentions have been fulfilled.

Finally, I urge the Minister in the meantime to take up the offer of discussions made by the noble Baronesses, Lady Drake and Lady Warwick, in advance of Report stage, to see if they can iron out any creases that there may be in what he may propose.

[Lord Callanan]

I thank all noble Lords for tabling amendments on this important topic. I first clarify to the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and others that I thought it would be helpful to email noble Lords last night to inform them of my intention to table an amendment on Report because, under the new procedures, I was not able to stand up at the start of this grouping to tell people in advance. I thought it would be helpful to give people advance notice of this to stop them asking for all the things that we were going to do anyway. I thought that it might have played some part in curtailing the debate on this.

I start by reminding the House that both the moratorium and the restructuring plan are not insolvency events—they are company rescue procedures. Where the company itself can be saved as a going concern, obviously, the returns to all creditors and stakeholders of the company will be better.

I turn specifically to Amendment 20 for Great Britain, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, and others, and Amendment 39 for Northern Ireland. I do understand the intentions behind these amendments. However, removing financial services contracts from the list of liabilities for which a company does not have a payment holiday when it enters a moratorium would mean that the company does not have to pay these liabilities during the moratorium.

The purpose of excluding these contracts from the payment holiday is to ensure that the moratorium does not affect existing financial services legislation or the operation of the financial markets, and that financial markets participants continue to have legal certainty to facilitate the efficient functioning of those markets. Not excluding them could have potentially severe consequences for the operation of the markets and, in turn, the stability of the financial system and the availability and cost of these products.

In addition, it is important to recognise that financial services firms are a key part of making the moratorium provisions work. Critically, they are not excluded from the moratorium, as I said on the last grouping, where they are a creditor to a company in distress so that they continue to support those companies. It is recognised that not excluding financial services contracts from the payment holiday definition could remove the incentive for these firms to continue to provide finance. That could leave companies in financial difficulty in a far worse-off position than they would otherwise be.

I understand the purpose of these amendments, and the concerns that many noble Lords raised during this debate and at Second Reading on the super-priority of financial services debts in the moratorium. In discussions with the various stakeholders, it has become clear that unpaid financial services debts that have been accelerated for payment during the moratorium receive this super-priority status. We would not want this to provide an incentive for financial services firms to jeopardise the rescue of businesses during a moratorium by accelerating financial services contracts for payment, so as to benefit from this super-priority of their debt in a subsequent insolvency. I will therefore table an amendment on Report to address this issue, and I thank noble Lords who have raised it with me.

I turn to Amendments 27, 63, 64 and 118. Again, I understand the intentions of these proposals. We can all agree that recent high-profile insolvency cases that featured large deficits owed to the defined benefit pension scheme were worrying. We all recognise the uncertainty that this brings for employees, both past and present, in such cases. Again, I assure the Committee that the Government recognise the need for safeguards around these pension schemes and have been working closely with key stakeholders over the last few weeks on these issues. We have reflected on the concerns raised, so I confirm that it is our intention to table amendments on Report to ensure a greater role for the Pension Protection Fund and that pension protection is made clear in the Bill. Again, I am grateful to noble Lords for their engagement on this issue. Both the amendments that I have mentioned will be tabled tomorrow to give noble Lords the opportunity to study them in advance of Report.

Let me address some of the points made. Initially, the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, and I think the noble Lord, Lord Fox, asked—he may not have done so—whether pension schemes can be crammed down. The protections that apply generally will cover a pension scheme included in a restructuring plan proposal. There are strong protections, including a high threshold for class support of 75%, and where cross-class cram down is requested and none of the members of a dissenting class are worse off than they would have been under the next most likely outcome. Importantly, even if all the statutory requirements are met, the court can refuse to sanction a restructuring plan if it is fair and equitable for it so to do.

My noble friend Lady Altmann and, on this occasion, the noble Lord, Lord Fox, asked about the debt priority of pensions and whether the current ranking is appropriate. When insolvency occurs, there is a balance to be struck in considering the order in which those owed money are paid out of the available assets. There are seldom enough funds to pay all creditors in full in an insolvency. To ensure fairness, the law requires that available funds be distributed in a certain order. Unsecured creditors are paid once the secured creditors and preferential debts, which of course include employees’ hard-earned wages and salary, have been dealt with; they share the funds that are then left over. Any deficit owed to a pension scheme ranks alongside all other unsecured creditors, which will inevitably include trade suppliers, some of which will be small and micro companies. I confirm to the noble Lord that this legislation has not changed the existing provision and that it carries on.

With those explanations, and with the notice I have given of the proposed government amendments on Report, I hope that I have provided sufficient justification for the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

Brexit: Transition Period

Debate between Lord Lennie and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 31st January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are their objectives for the Brexit transition period.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, both the UK and the EU are in agreement that a strictly time-limited period would be mutually beneficial. An implementation period forms a key part of a smooth and orderly exit from the EU. It would provide time for government, people and businesses to adjust to the new arrangements and prevent businesses in both the UK and Europe having to make decisions before they know the shape of our future partnerships.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

This not a bridge to a clear destination but a gangplank to thin air—I think that was the quote. Secretary of State David Davis said in evidence to the Lords European Union Committee this week that during transition things would not be exactly the same but very, very similar to what they are now. Will the Minister explain to the House what the very, very similar differences are that we can expect during the transition period?

[Lord Callanan]

The two main differences, and the reason that we need to construct an implementation period are, first, the ability for us to sign and agree trade deals with third countries, and, secondly, to agree and sign a trade deal with the EU, which is legally impossible as long as we are a member.