Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Thursday 28th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, because I was not aware of that possibility under the Bill. It ever so slightly changes my perception of it, but I fear that I am still not entirely in favour of it, not least because it impinges on Her Majesty’s prerogatives under the constitution.

I am sure I am right in telling my hon. Friend that there is no prospect of filibustering in this House. It is a term of usage, but it is not in order to filibuster, and the Chair would not contemplate anything disorderly happening in the House.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

May we have a statement from the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport to explain why the Government have refused to designate the rugby union world cup in 2015 as an event of national significance, as was done by the previous Government for the Olympics and Paralympics in 2012, so that tickets cannot be sold on the secondary ticketing market and hoovered up by touts, many of whom are involved in organised criminal gangs and in exploiting genuine rugby fans?

[Mr Lansley]

If I may, I will talk to my hon. Friends at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. It might be simpler for them not to make a statement, but to respond to the hon. Gentleman in his capacity as a shadow Minister—

[Clive Efford]

We would all like to hear.

[Mr Lansley]

Those Ministers may even want to put a copy of that reply in the Library of the House.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Thursday 4th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I cannot immediately offer a debate and I know that my hon. Friend will understand that the ability to relate issues to do with young people across government and to give them a renewed focus was at the heart of the Prime Minister’s changes, as announced yesterday. I am glad that this week we had the announcement of a major extension of funding for youth sport, which will, I hope, form part of the Olympic and Paralympic legacy. That is very important. I shall raise the issues he mentions with my colleagues and as the opportunity for such a debate will probably not arise immediately in Government time, he might consider asking for such a thing in the context of priorities through the Backbench Business Committee.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

May we have a debate on the demands for a public inquiry into the allegations that the Metropolitan police sought to undermine the Macpherson inquiry? There are revelations today that a report has been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission that a senior officer sought to gather information on someone who was about to give evidence to the inquiry and did so with the intention of undermining that individual. If that proves to be true, it seriously calls into question the way that senior officers across the country approached the Macpherson inquiry and further undermines the process of the police investigating the police. Only an independent inquiry with the right to summon people and to have them give evidence under oath will satisfy the public that the matter is truly being looked into.

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Gentleman will recall that the Home Secretary made it very clear in the House that she has confidence that a number of inquiries that are being undertaken into the issues surrounding Stephen Lawrence’s murder continue to be independent, but that she has not taken off the table any further steps that might be needed to ensure that there is the rigour and independence required. She continues to keep the issue under review.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Thursday 18th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend because that is an important issue for those in north Lincolnshire. I reiterate my point about Transport questions next Thursday because he will clearly want to raise that issue if possible. I will also contact my hon. Friends because I know they will want to take action on this issue and provide reassurances as soon as they can.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

May we have a debate on the NHS in London in the light of the review of health services in London published by Imperial college this week? In the foreword, Ruth Carnall—the former chief executive of the NHS in London—makes it clear that when the Leader of House was Secretary of State for Health he was wrong to halt the reforms in 2010, including “A Picture of Health” in my area of south-east London, and that there were consequences for patients as a direct result of his decision. Such a debate would give him an opportunity to apologise to my constituents for the serious problems caused in south-east London as a result of that decision.

[Mr Lansley]

I have not seen the foreword by Ruth Carnall, but it is clear that at the last election “A Picture of Health” was wholly opposed by very large parts of the community in south-east London. People voted against it and for a Government who would not put up with it—we were clear about instituting a moratorium on that so that we could proceed with more rational proposals that would deliver more secure and sustainable services for patients. That is what is happening in south-east London as a consequence of the use of legislation passed by the previous Government but never used, to institute a special administration regime.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Thursday 17th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

That is a matter of concern to many Members, including my hon. Friends at the Department for Communities and Local Government. Ministers agree that the evidence shows that rural areas are comparatively underfunded, and that a correction should be applied so that there is proper recognition of the additional costs of delivering services in rural areas. I will not elaborate on the details of those adjustments, although I could do so. Although we will want to have transitional stability in local government, the Government recognise that such costs need to be understood and reflected in the formula.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

May we have a statement from the Secretary of State for Health on the performance of the Food Standards Agency? We have just had a poor performance from the Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath), who failed to reassure the House about the FSA’s performance. There are concerns that if horsemeat can be labelled as beef and enter the food chain via supermarket shelves, other sources of meat that have been banned—perhaps because of concerns about BSE—could also enter the food chain. Will the Leader of the House ensure that we have a statement from the Department of Health, so that we can be reassured about the performance of the FSA?

[Mr Lansley]

It sounds as though the hon. Gentleman missed asking his question of my right hon. Friend the Minister of State. To my knowledge, my DEFRA colleagues have no plans to make a statement about the performance of the Food Standards Agency, but I will of course ask them to respond to the hon. Gentleman about that. I recall from my time as Secretary of State for Health that we exercise ministerial oversight, although the FSA is a non-ministerial department.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Thursday 18th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I think he will recognise that under this coalition Government the pupil premium plays a vital part in ensuring that those who come from the most disadvantaged families and communities have education resources put behind them to enable them to achieve better results. That is particularly true this year because of the resources being made available for the catch-up premium for those in year 7. In addition, my right hon. Friend the Education Secretary has set out proposals on the future of education funding that are still subject to consultation.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

May we have a debate on the place of plebs in society? The worst aspect of what the Chief Whip said to those police officers was that they should know their place, and such a debate would not only give him the opportunity to get on his feet and give us the truth about what happened but give those of us who consider ourselves to be plebs an opportunity to know exactly what our place is.

[Mr Lansley]

I explained in response to the shadow Leader of the House how I feel about this. It is all very well Labour Members trying to make political capital out of this, but we support the police. We are getting on with that job, and the Chief Whip is getting on with that job and doing a grand job in doing so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Tuesday 17th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend will, I am sure, know that an application for foundation trust status from the Royal Cornwall Hospitals NHS Trust is currently being considered by my Department. The trust is being assessed on whether it meets the quality, service, performance, business strategy, finance and governance standards required if a trust is to be an FT. Once the trust has demonstrated that it has met those standards in all other regards, the Department will ensure that any outstanding liquidity issues are resolved in time for the trust to be authorised as an FT. The process of assessing FT applications will ensure that any remaining debt carried by the trust when it becomes a foundation trust is affordable within the trust’s forward plans.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The chair of the South London Healthcare NHS Trust has written to the Secretary of State to correct inaccurate information given out by the Department of Health regarding the trust’s performance. [Interruption.] Instead of barracking me, would the Secretary of State—[Interruption.] Instead of shouting at me now, it is a shame that the Secretary of State did not meet the local MPs when he had the opportunity. Will he distance himself from the false information put out by unattributable sources in his Department, which will undermine the performance of the hospital and shows little respect for the health service workers who are working to improve services?

NHS Risk Register

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Wednesday 22nd February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

It is because we are clear that the reason he said that was that there was no mechanism available to Monitor in legislation for the maintenance of services and interventions. The Bill will mean that there is.

I sometimes think that the shadow Secretary of State has not actually read the Health and Social Care Bill. He keeps saying that this or that is in it, or that it does or does not do this or that, but for the first time since 2003, when his predecessor’s legislation stated that there should be a mechanism for dealing with hospitals that are failing, we are setting out a proper structure for the continuity of services. He says that it is just about de-authorisation, but it is not.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

rose—

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

rose—

Health and Social Care (Re-committed) Bill

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Tuesday 6th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I do not recognise such a scenario and in any case there will be no transfer of NHS-owned organisations and the estate and property of such to the private sector. We are not engaging in privatisation, so to that extent the question does not arise.

I must also make it clear that the implication of the proposals I have just described—

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Mr Lansley]

No.

The implication of these proposals is that we are not continuing with our previous proposals to have a system of prior designation. We are also withdrawing our proposals to apply insolvency law, including the health special administration procedure, to foundation trusts, so I hope that Opposition Members will not press amendments 29 and 30.

I hope that that explanation of the purpose of the substantive group of Government amendments will help the House. In a moment, I shall turn to some of the additional amendments that have been presented by other colleagues.

NHS Future Forum

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Tuesday 14th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I can assure my hon. Friend that I know his local GPs, and that they want to work with their professional colleagues across their area and to get on with that now. We will continue to be able to delegate commissioning responsibilities to all commissioning groups who are ready to do that; if they show that they are ready, we can give them the capacity to do it through existing NHS structures.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

This is not a U-turn; it is a body-swerve around the Liberals. The Secretary of State has spent the last year telling us that cherry-picking for profit in the NHS will not be possible under his Bill, yet today’s report has told us that he must take action to prevent such cherry-picking. Does the Secretary of State understand that this is now an issue of trust, and that nobody trusts him on the NHS—made in Britain by Labour, stolen by the Tories, and given away to his fat cat friends?

[Mr Lansley]

I will not attempt to compete with the hon. Gentleman on any driving analogies, but we have been clear that we will not countenance cherry-picking against NHS providers. The Future Forum has made recommendations on that, but they are not all to do with the Bill: for example, the processes I described of using a tariff lie outside the scope of the Bill. The Future Forum is making recommendations, and we are responding positively to them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Tuesday 26th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am glad to endorse my hon. Friend’s congratulations to the staff and team at Warwick hospital. I hope to have an opportunity to visit that hospital at some future date. Across the NHS, we are setting out not least to increase productivity and efficiency, stimulate innovation, reduce administration costs and put more decision-making responsibility into the hands of those who care for patients, which the Labour party failed to do.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

How can the Secretary of State convince people that he is protecting front-line services when a flagship Bill such as the Health and Social Care Bill is in such disarray? While he is pausing and listening and reflecting on that Bill, will he also consider whether the House will have a further opportunity to consider his reflections, because we are through the Committee stage? Will there be another Committee?

NHS Reform

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Monday 4th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

Yes, I can. Under the coalition Government, in mid-Essex there has been a 3.2% increase in cash for the NHS this year compared with last year. Not only that, but more of that money will, as a consequence of our changes, get to the front line to deliver improving services for patients.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

“No decisions about us without us” could apply to every single person who works in the NHS who has been telling the Secretary of State that these are reckless changes. Throughout the country changes are taking place. Now he says that he is going to be listening. If so, we can anticipate some more changes. Will he therefore instruct everyone in the NHS who is currently restructuring on the basis of the Bill to stop that restructuring until we know exactly what the Government intend to do?

[Mr Lansley]

No, I will not, because we are very clear about the strategy and the principles of the Bill. We are equally clear that now we have the opportunity to work with the developing GP pathfinder consortia, the health and well-being boards in local authorities and the wider community to ensure that the implementation of the Bill and its structure support those developing organisations.

NHS Reorganisation

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley)]

The Labour motion is interesting. I will ask the House to reject it, but it is an interesting motion. The first half of it accepts the principles of our reforms—it even does so in the same terms in which we have expressed them—but in the second half it goes on to say, “Not yet. Don’t make us do it yet.” Labour Members are turning their backs on the change that we need in the national health service and even on the policies they pursued in government.

But it is time for change. The public agree—65% of adults in England think that fundamental changes are needed in the national health service. The need to improve results for patients demands it. The need to empower clinical leadership demands it. The need to cut bureaucracy and invest in front-line care for patients demands it. As a coalition Government, we do not shirk our responsibilities. We have been absolutely clear that the NHS will remain free at the point of need, paid for from general taxation and based entirely on need and not on the ability to pay.

Those values are not, and never will be, threatened by this Government. The Health and Social Care Bill will not undermine any of the rights in the NHS constitution. It is for those same reasons that we, in a coalition Government, are protecting the NHS in the life of this Parliament by increasing NHS funding by £10.7 billion.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State distance himself from the comments of Dr Charles Alessi, a GP alleged to have been one of the architects of GP commissioning in this Bill and one of the people invited to No. 10, who is of the opinion that too many people in his area are receiving treatment for macular degeneration? Is that not rationing services and nothing whatsoever to do with providing them on the basis of clinical need?

[Mr Lansley]

All GPs and their colleagues who were part of the first wave of pathfinders were invited to No. 10—there were far more than we ever expected—and Charles Alessi was one of them. It is a complete illustration. I do not know what Charles said or why he said it, but he is the doctor, not me. Frankly, I think that it is clinical leaders in the NHS who are responsible for what they say, not me.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lansley]

No.

[Clive Efford]

rose—

[Mr Lansley]

No. I have given way to the hon. Gentleman.

Only yesterday—

Health and Social Care Bill

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Monday 31st January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

The accountability in the NHS will be for the quality of the service being provided. The hon. Gentleman may not have agreed with the last Labour Government on this, and perhaps many in the Labour party are now changing their view on what was pursued by that Government, but it was that Government who introduced and encouraged a policy of “any willing provider”. In 2003, Alan Milburn said:

“If I can get a private-sector hospital to treat an NHS patient, then for me the person remains an NHS patient.”

Everybody in the NHS who provides NHS services will be accountable through the—[Interruption.] The money will follow. The Chair of the Public Accounts Committee is here. Where public money goes, accountability for its use will follow.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

rose—

[Clive Efford]

rose—

[Mr Lansley]

I give way to the hon. Gentleman. I will give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) in a moment because I referred to Staffordshire.

[Clive Efford]

The right hon. Gentleman will know that the Bill introduces European competition law into the national health service, and removes the existing protection once and for all. His Government have just taken the decision to put billions of pounds into stopping Irish banks failing. If a local hospital fails under the new market arrangements, will he step in and save it?

[Mr Lansley]

Time does not permit me to explain the extraordinary ignorance of that series of points. First, the Bill sets out that the regulator will have a responsibility to establish a failure regime. In 2003, when the predecessors of those currently on the Labour Front Bench took the health legislation through the House, they said that they would introduce a failure regime, to be implemented by Monitor, in legislation. They never did so. At the moment, there is therefore no proper failure regime.

Secondly, European competition law—indeed, competition law—applies in this country. A body was established in the national health service under the previous Labour Government called the co-operation and competition panel, the express purpose of which was to apply competition rules in the NHS. To that extent, all the Bill will do is to ensure that the rules that already apply are applied fairly, consistently and transparently across all providers.

Public Health White Paper

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Tuesday 30th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am wedded to achieving improvements in public health. Interestingly, today I have been accused both of being an exponent of the nanny state and of having abandoned it in favour of “nudge”. The truth is that, as one sees in the White Paper, there is a clear philosophy here that we will pursue a voluntary approach, regulate only where necessary and seek to have less intrusive and less interventionist approaches in order to make more progress more quickly. If we do not make progress through voluntary approaches, we will of course still have to protect the public’s health and we will seek other measures to do so, but they have been tested to destruction by the previous Administration. It did not happen—they did not succeed and they did not improve public health—but we are determined to do so.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State consistently comes to the House and announces policies that seem to have been written on the back of a fag packet from the Minister of State, Department of Health, the hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), but in his explanation on this morning’s “Today” programme the Secretary of State could not even make his mind up about the fag packet. Does he understand that the time allowed for the implementation of legislation that has been passed by the House was meant to allow people who are consequential in delivering that policy enough time to plan for it? The delay that he has introduced has made it more difficult for people such as the newsagents whom he spoke about in his statement because they have to prepare. Are we going to have branding or not? Will packets be on display or not? What is the Government’s policy?

[Mr Lansley]

I think that I have already answered that question. The hon. Gentleman at least among Opposition Members seems to have understood what it is to be in opposition: the point is simply to oppose and that is all he is doing. This is a positive statement and he should address it in that light.

NHS White Paper

Debate between Lord Lansley and Clive Efford

Monday 12th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

GP practices will all have to be members of a consortium, otherwise it will not be possible for them collectively to commission emergency and urgent care, and they will need to do that.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State seems to misunderstand one thing. When patients go in to be treated by a GP, they expect to get the best possible treatment available. The Secretary of State said in an earlier answer that he would expect patients to have the knowledge of drugs to be able to determine whether a GP was supplying cheaper or better drugs. What local accountability will there be of GPs, what resources will be put into HealthWatch networks, what resources will be left available for local health improvement budgets, and what teeth will local authorities have to impose local health plans?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. That was four questions, to which one answer will suffice.