Ukraine

Debate between Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Tuesday 4th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

The noble Lord is right—and I do not want to say anything more about the pause at this stage, because we simply do not know enough, and we do not know the impact of President Zelensky’s response. But we are well aware of those challenges. I mentioned the strategic defence review, and a national armaments director will be in place soon to look at those issues as well. But the security of Ukraine is not just about aid to Ukraine; it is also about the security and protection of this country. We need to be aware of that at all times. If we ignore the security of Ukraine issues, we have seen on our own shores before—as we saw in Salisbury, for example—that Russian aggression is an issue for this country, not just for other countries overseas. So we will work with Ukraine.

The point was made, which I reiterate, that the Prime Minister has brought together the coalition of the willing across Europe. One thing that has been a problem in the past is that we tend to move as slowly as the most reluctant member, and the Prime Minister is saying that we have to lead from the front and ask, “Where are the willing?” So we have the coalition of the willing so that we do not delay in any way at all and do as much as we can as quickly as we can.

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con)]

My Lords, I remind your Lordships’ House of my interest as a member of the Army Board. I welcome the Government’s commitment to spending £3 billion in military aid until 2030, but my plea is that we are smart in how we spend it: first, that we ensure that we use it to re-energise the land industrial base in the UK, which we have allowed to atrophy over many years; and, secondly, that we recognise that the nature of warfare has changed. Historically, in the land domain, the depth of the battlefield was 80 kilometres; it is now 800 kilometres, and capabilities need to change to adapt for that. Can we ensure that we use this money as a catalyst to develop our own capabilities so we can then use those capabilities to ensure that we meet the Chief of the General Staff’s aim of doubling the lethality of the British Army by 2027?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

The noble Lord makes an important point. It is the purpose of the strategic defence review to look at all those issues and bring them to government. There is also an issue around defence procurement and always ensuring that we get the best value. I used to represent a constituency that had a defence industry and I am well aware of the problems that have existed with procurement. By reviewing procurement and being informed by the strategic defence review, we will do our best to get these issues right.

Defence and Security

Debate between Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Wednesday 26th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend; his experience and powerful words are to be listened to. I made the point in an earlier answer that diplomacy, development and defence have to be balanced, and there is a rebalancing here, but we retain that commitment to return to spending 0.7% on ODA. But there is also the point, which my noble friend made, about how that money is spent and used to affect fundamentally those three areas of diplomacy, development and defence. That is really important, which is why issues such as procurement and the effectiveness of the money must be looked at, as must our relationships with other countries and working in partnership with other countries. As I have said and can only repeat, there is a generational shift today in how we look at these issues going forward.

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a member of the Army Board. I welcome the rise to 2.5%; it goes some way to delivering the means that the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, needs to balance the ends and ways in the SDR. However, the aspiration to go to 3% after 2030 in the next Parliament is a tacit acceptance that it is simply not enough at the moment. It is no secret that, over the next two years, there will be significant financial pressures on defence, meaning that we will have to defer or cancel capabilities and defer capital programmes. This year, we have already seen announcements from the Government over the scrapping of HMS “Bulwark” and “Albion”, as well as the withdrawal of the Watchkeeper drone programme from the Army. Given that we have identified where this money is coming from—rightly or wrongly, it is coming from the aid budget—I simply ask: why are we waiting until 2027? Why are we not delivering it now?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

The comments and response that I gave to the other Baroness Smith—the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham—highlights part of this issue: you cannot just turn on the tap and spend the money. You work up to how it is going to be spent, looking at supply chains and procurement. We will be very much informed by the strategic defence review in terms of how this money is spent.