Lord Laming
Main Page: Lord Laming (Crossbench - Life peer)
The Chairman of Committees
That the 2nd Report from the Select Committee (An International Relations Committee) (HL Paper 47) be agreed to.
The Chairman of Committees (Lord Laming)
My Lords, I have the pleasure of presenting the report of the Liaison Committee. In recent times, the proposal that the House should establish an international relations committee has received a greater degree of attention. The issue has been raised in the Chamber on a number of occasions and there have been written representations from many Members. Therefore the Liaison Committee has been considering the matter in some detail. We appreciate that there is a range of views across the House on this question. The Motion before the House invites your Lordships to agree with the Liaison Committee’s recommendation to establish an international relations committee from the start of the next Session, together with a number of safeguards relating to membership and financial discipline.
As Members will know, the House has recently established ad hoc committees to consider a particular subject matter for one Session only, with some follow-up by the Liaison Committee. This enables a wide range of colleagues to participate in committee work. However, given the conflicts and tensions in the world and the interest of this House in international affairs, several Members have pressed for your Lordships’ House to have an international relations committee. If the House agrees to the proposition, it will be important to draw on a range of experience, and therefore the report invites the groups to bear this in mind when they make membership recommendations to the Committee of Selection.
We heard concerns, too, about the likely cost of an international relations committee, particularly in relation to travel. In broad terms the average annual cost of a Select Committee is about £225,000. Our report invites the House Committee, in drawing up the House financial plan, to consider whether any additional budget required by the Committee Office for the new committee should be offset by savings in other areas. For clarification, this does not mean that other committees will be affected in the next Session.
In addition, our report recommends a full review of investigative committee activity in the Session 2017-18. This will enable a timely evaluation of whether the new committee is working well, whether the safeguards are effective and how it is interacting with the European Union External Affairs Sub-Committee—Sub-Committee C—as well as of the overall shape of Select Committee activity. Although the Liaison Committee considers committee work at the end of each Session, there has not been a comprehensive review of the committee structure of the House since the Jellicoe committee reported in 1992. Since then there has been a considerable growth in the number of committees. Twenty-five years after the Jellicoe report, the time seems right to look again at our committee structure.
There is never a perfect solution to issues such as this, but the committee agreed that it needed to make a recommendation to the House for a decision. I hope that your Lordships will agree that our recommendation, including the safeguards, strikes an appropriate balance between the views expressed to us. I beg to move.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)
My Lords, although I welcome the new committee, may I ask the noble Lord to say a little more about why we need it, in addition to the External Affairs Sub-Committee of our European Union Committee? May I also once again ask the noble Lord whether we really need seven European Union sub-committees, especially when Brussels pays so little attention—indeed, virtually no attention—to their deliberations? Would we not do much better to distribute most of the cost of our seven European sub-committees over a number of ad hoc committees, for which your Lordships are so peculiarly knowledgeable and well suited, in the national interest?
The Chairman of Committees
My Lords, I am very grateful indeed to all colleagues who have taken part in this debate. I said earlier, perhaps rather inadequately, that there is never a perfect solution to issues of this kind. This debate has demonstrated that there is no perfect solution. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, that I have no idea about the Session. We as a committee were charged with thinking about where we are now and to face the reality of where we are now. We have come up with a recommendation on where we are now which I hope will commend itself to the House.
I am most grateful to members of the committee who spoke in support of this recommendation. The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, and the Convenor, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, have all played a very full part in what has been a serious examination of these important matters. I hope that it will be no surprise to the House that many, if not all, of the points that have been raised this afternoon were raised in the committee.
The noble Lord, Lord Jopling, and the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, made extremely strong points in respect of the fact that the EU Committee and its sub-committees serve this House, this nation and the European community extremely well. It scrutinises all the proposals that come from Europe. I have not served on any of the sub-committees but everything that I have heard indicates that those committees do their job very conscientiously, and sometimes to much greater effect than any of the other member states of the European Union. But the material that they get relates to Europe and European interests. The noble Lords, Lord Judd and Lord Anderson, referred to the turbulence in the world. We are now thinking about the tremendous conflicts and the very serious issues that ought to concern us all—and I know do concern us all—and which are well beyond the boundaries or the immediate interests of Europe. It is those issues that the Liaison Committee recognises are important.
Why do this now? We do it now because grave issues face the world. We have great expertise in this House but we do not want the membership of the committee —if it is approved by the House—to be made up mainly of noble Lords with known expertise that we all recognise, such as the noble Lord, Lord Howell, who has been mentioned. When members are put forward in the usual way, we would like consideration to be given to ensuring that we have a proper balance.
Lord Campbell-Savours
I am sorry to intervene again. Was there any discussion with the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee in the House of Commons—I know a new chairman has just been elected? Was there any consultation with the Foreign Affairs Committee on the proposal that we are considering?
The Chairman of Committees
If the noble Lord will just give me a minute, I will get to how we make sure that the resources of both Houses are used to the greatest effect. In fact, I will deal with it now. We have experience in this House of committees with similar interests working closely with the other end. We have extremely good experience of the two ends of the building working together on science and technology.
One of the reasons why we think it would be helpful to establish a committee of this kind, at this stage, is that—as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, said—when it comes to a major review later on, as I indicated, we would have experience of how it works, not just with the EU sub-committee but how it works with the other end and also with regard to the safeguards we are putting in place. As a direct answer, I have not spoken to the chairman at the other end, but I am very happy to do so. But I imagine that what is much more important is that, whoever becomes the chairman of such a committee, I confidently predict that the chairman of a committee of this House will make it his or her business to have close liaison with the chairman at the other end.
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton (Lab)
My Lords, can I ask the noble Lord, Lord Laming, if he can give an assurance that if the parliamentary timetable should change—because I note we did not get an answer to the question from my noble friend Lord Grocott—this proposal would come back for reconsideration in the light of changed circumstances?
The Chairman of Committees
I hope that the House will agree today to do several things. One is to agree that this House will appoint an international relations committee. Secondly, that this House will undertake—in the time I made reference to; and it is in the report—a thorough review of all committees. We will do that, if the House approves, in a timely way and will go on carrying out our business. I do not think there is any impediment to us doing that.
With regard to some of the other points that were made, it has been said that it would have a bad effect upon ad hoc committees. Actually, with regard to an international relations committee, in the light of what is happening in the world today—and there are grave matters—I do not think that anyone would not want an ad hoc committee to look at the Arctic or women in situations of conflict. We can continue to do these things. The choices of topics for ad hoc committees are made in this House, and they can be influenced by whatever the concerns and interests of the House may be.
I am not very good at all this, but I am doing my best. If I have missed somebody out or some really serious point, please take me to task afterwards. However, I commend the report to the House.