Policing and Crime Bill

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard - part two): House of Lords
Wednesday 9th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

My Lords, I congratulate noble Lords who have tabled and so eloquently moved and spoken to the amendments before the Committee.

Speaking in a personal capacity, I seek guidance from the Minister, who now has a wish list of an additional three or more objectives that could be included in the amendments. In her response, can she explain what original criteria were used to establish the original objectives, as set out in the Licensing Act 2003? More particularly, what is the distinction from what has been achieved by a piece of legislation from an earlier Conservative Administration, of which I am extremely proud, the Disability Discrimination Act? How is that different from Amendment 210?

I was struck by the words of the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, about catching a falling star. I revert to the earlier theme of why this falling star has been snatched when we have a history over the past 10 or 15 years—possibly even 18 or 20—of every 18 months considering a police and crime or justice Bill that could have neatly included some of these amendments, certainly those that we looked at earlier. As well as “catch a falling star”, one could also say, “pick’n’mix” or “liquorice allsorts”. My favourite would be Mackintosh’s Quality Street but, sadly, there is no relation.

I conclude by paying tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, who chaired the earlier ad hoc committee with such distinction. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, we have moved on to another part of the Bill. I should declare that I am an elected councillor in the London Borough of Lewisham and a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I do not serve on the licensing committee of Lewisham Council; I have enough to do on the planning committee. However, many years ago, I was a member of the licensing committee of Southwark Council. In those days, we considered only music and dance licences. One still had to apply to the magistrates’ court for a late-night alcohol licence. That has all changed and these matters are now under the control of the licensing committee.

This has been an interesting debate on four important amendments, all of which I support. The noble Baroness, Lady Deech, and other noble Lords made very valid points in respect of licensing authorities’ compliance with the provisions of the Equality Act. This is an issue of enforcement, rather than advice and guidance. Being able to remind licence holders of their duty is not good enough because it has not worked as effectively as it should. We should force licensed premises to be able to be used by disabled people.

My noble friend Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe spoke about the need for a duty to promote health and well-being. Local authorities have such general duties but for there to be a specific requirement in respect of licensed premises is a new initiative. He made important points about the changes to availability of alcohol and consumption patterns. They have certainly changed. My noble friend was clear and we can all think back on how many pubs have closed while alcohol is more available in convenience stores and supermarkets. Things have changed in the past 20 years. He also made important points on the duty of authorities to look after young people and protect them from harm.

As regards the promotion of cultural activity and inclusion, the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, has an impressive record in this House of standing up for live music and other cultural activities. He is right to stand up for grass-roots music venues, which have launched many a career in the entertainment industry. I agree with the noble Lord that music and other activities should be helped and supported where possible through the licensing system, rather than just regulated. I recall a debate on a different subject in the Moses Room, when we talked about a range of regulations that sometimes affect people going about their lawful business and allowing them to busk and so on. Decisions on this are being taken by officials of local authorities, rather than elected members, which is worrying. It is a slightly different but similar point. I also agree with what the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, said about the industry.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, Amendments 210, 211 and 214A in this group seek to add to the list of licensing objectives under the Licensing Act 2003. In answer to my noble friend Lady McIntosh’s question, there are currently four such objectives. These are: the prevention of crime and disorder; public safety; the prevention of public nuisance; and the protection of children from harm. The promotion of the licensing objectives is of paramount importance when authorities make licensing decisions, and each one carries equal weight.

Amendment 210 seeks to add,

“compliance with the provisions of the Equality Act 2010”,

to the list of licensing objectives. As we have heard, the amendment flows from a recommendation made by the Equality Act 2010 and the Disability Committee, which reported in March. I was pleased to be able to respond in our debate on that. All four noble Baronesses who put their name to this amendment served on that committee.

The committee recommended that the Licensing Act 2003 be amended to make failure to comply with the Equality Act 2010 a ground for refusing a licence. In their response published in July, the Government argued that, as employers and businesses were already under a duty to comply with the statutory obligations imposed by the Equality Act not to discriminate against staff or customers, the Act offered sufficient protection. Accordingly, it would be inappropriate for the 2003 Act to duplicate the requirements of the 2010 Act, just as it would be inappropriate to make express reference to other legislation—such as the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 or the Noise Act 1996—all of which places requirements and responsibilities on licensing authorities and licensees.

Moreover, if we were to apply the logic of Amendment 122 more broadly, we should also be amending the Gambling Act, and indeed many other statutes, to place analogous obligations on those undertaking other forms of regulated activity. To single out the operators of businesses licensed under the 2003 Act could be taken as downgrading the obligations on all other businesses to similarly comply with the requirements of the Equality Act. I am sure that noble Lords would not wish to give that impression.

This is not to say that those running licensed premises should not be doing more to facilitate access by disabled people. Earlier this year the Minister for Disabled People held a round table event with disabled people and the hospitality industry to lead to a better understanding by service providers and businesses and a commitment from them to improve access and attitudes. Organisations represented at the round table made pledges to improve accessibility to their premises and improve their customer service for disabled people. For example, the British Beer and Pub Association pledged to update and promote its guidance on accessibility in pubs. This gives pubs advice on easy changes they can make to improve their service to disabled customers. These are very practical steps which will help to improve the day-to-day experiences of disabled people.

Amendment 211, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe, seeks to add an additional licensing objective,

“to promote the health and wellbeing of the locality and local area”.

The Government are not unsympathetic to those who believe that there should be a greater role for public health within the licensing system, and we of course acknowledge the health harms attributable to alcohol. However, decisions under the Licensing Act have to be proportionate and made on a case-by-case basis. Unless it can be demonstrated that an application for a new licence is likely to undermine one or more of the licensing objectives, the licensing authority must grant the licence. The Government believe that any new licensing objective would need to be capable of standing alongside the existing objectives and function in the same way. Any new objective must therefore enable licensing authorities to determine whether it is appropriate to grant or refuse new applications, review licences and attach conditions or revoke licences.

Previous work has shown that it is difficult to establish direct causal links between alcohol-related health harms such as chronic liver disease and particular premises. Difficulties also remain with putting in place the necessary processes to enable the collection of such evidence—without which decisions based on health grounds would be unlikely to stand up to challenge. Work to date has established that the types of health data that are more readily accessible and most suited to use in a licensing context tend to relate to acute harms such as violent assaults and alcohol-related injuries. These harms, as well as most factors affecting well-being, such as crime levels and the welfare of children, can already be addressed through the existing licensing objectives, as demonstrated by the achievements of areas such as the Kensington area of Liverpool, Newcastle and Middlesbrough.

The Government will therefore continue working with Public Health England to facilitate access to local health data to inform decision-making within the current framework and to help public health teams play a role within licensing. Public Health England has also been testing a support package to assist with the development of local data collection and analysis based on lessons learned from the evidence-based work carried out in 2014-15. I assure the noble Lord that the Government continue to look at this matter seriously and will consider the findings of Public Health England.

Amendment 214A seeks to add,

“the promotion of cultural activity and inclusion”,

to the licensing objectives. This would require licensing authorities to consider the character of licensable activities, rather than purely protect against the potential harm caused by licensable activity. The existing licensing objectives seek to reduce harm that can be evidenced, and licence conditions which are intended to reduce the level of harm can be easily understood—for example, a requirement to restrict noise levels to prevent public nuisance.

It would be difficult to replicate this for “cultural activity and inclusion”, since this is quite a subjective matter and may be interpreted in different ways. For example, would a festival of Hindi films or Irish dance be considered good or bad in terms of cultural activity and inclusion? Making this a licensing objective could place licensing authorities in a censorious position, whereby licensees organising events might be obliged to explain what additional cultural value their entertainment might generate, and the licensing authorities would be required to evaluate that information.

The final amendment in this group, Amendment 212, seeks to add child protection bodies to the list of statutory consultees for statements of licensing policy. Each licensing authority is required to publish a statement of licensing policy and to revise it at least every five years. The statement sets out the general approach to making licensing decisions and managing the evening and night-time economy in the area.

Section 5(3) of the 2003 Act sets out a list of organisations and individuals who must be consulted when the statement is reviewed. The list includes the police, the fire and rescue authority and the public health body, but it is not intended to be exhaustive and therefore does not include all the responsible authorities. The 2003 Act does not prevent licensing authorities from consulting other bodies or persons as they see appropriate.

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[Lord Harris of Haringey]

I sometimes wonder about the priorities of this House and of government in considering these sorts of issues. I think most of those who know me recognise that I am fairly hawkish on counterterrorism, but the number of people in this country who have died as a consequence of terrorist acts since 2005 is less than the number of people who die in a single year because of drunk-driving between the limits that are currently against the law and those proposed by the noble Baroness.

Let us go back over all the legislation since the current limit was introduced—the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, took us back to what it was like in those times when we were all much younger—and consider how many pieces of legislation, full Bills, have been brought forward by the Home Office to deal with the threat from terrorism. It is usually about one a year, sometimes more—full Bills containing lots of new offences. Yet there is clear evidence that these new limits would reduce the number of deaths, they are fairly straightforward to administer and yet we keep waiting and putting off the decision. That seems to me an issue that we should all address, and we should be conscious that sometimes we have double standards. I will continue to argue for stronger counterterrorism, but it is rather striking that we do not resolve something like this, which would make a real difference, and would stop the wrecking not only of the lives of the families of those who have died but also of the lives of those who cause the deaths.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

My Lords, Amendment 214C, moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, and supported by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, and my noble friend Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe, reduces the legal alcohol limits in England and Wales to match the limits introduced by the Scottish Government on 5 December 2014.

My noble friend Lord Harris made a particularly powerful point in respect of deaths caused through drink-driving. I am very supportive of this amendment, as I think we need tough laws on drinking and driving that are effectively enforced.

I also think that it would be quite good to have the same limit across the whole of Great Britain, and ideally the whole of the United Kingdom. This would make it much easier to understand for everyone concerned. I am also not against having a lower limit for commercial drivers and novices.

There is clear evidence that a reduction in the drink-drive limits would save lives. No one has said that is not the case. We have the highest limits in Europe. Only Malta has the same drink-drive limit we have in this country. The limit introduced by the Scottish Government is the same one that is in force in Austria, Belgium, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovenia and Switzerland. So the case is powerful. In none of these countries is there a problem with the limit being effective.

The second amendment in the group, again in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, and my noble friend Lord Brooke, seeks to create a lower limit for novice and professional drivers. Again, I think that this is something we should consider. Many countries have this. That is certainly the case in many of the countries I read out, including Ireland and North Ireland. I think that it is important, if you are a professional or a novice driver, to have a lower limit.

I passed my driving test 36 years ago. I remember getting my first car—you are let loose and you are in there on your own. If you think about it, you are not very experienced at that point. Therefore it would be a good to enforce a lower limit. The fact is that our limits are comparatively high. I hope the Minister will respond to the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge. It is very good, and I hope that we will get a positive response from the Government. If not, I hope that the noble Baroness will bring it back on Report. I assure her that if she wants to test the opinion of the House at that point, we will support her.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I know that these amendments relate to concerns around the Government’s approach to drink-driving limits, particularly in light of changes in the law in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and, more recently, with a proposed change in Malta to lower the drink-drive limit. First, I emphasise that tackling drink-driving is a priority for the Government and that, together with the police, we continue to take robust enforcement action against this reckless behaviour.

Other countries may have a lower alcohol limit, but they do not necessarily have a better record on reducing drink-drive casualties. While it is difficult to make direct comparisons, some stark contrasts clearly exist between ourselves and our European neighbours. Estonia, for example, with a population of 1.3 million, has a limit of 20 milligrams per 100 millilitres of blood and carries out 10 times more breath tests than we do in Great Britain. Yet 160 people died there in 2014 as a result of drink-driving. That rate is 30 times greater per head than in Britain. Closer to home, we can look at France. With a similar population to us, it suffers nearly four times the drink-drive fatalities that we do. Even taking into account those cases that fall between its limit and ours, we perform significantly better.

In many of these countries a first drink-drive offence gets you a fine and some penalty points. Indeed, in Northern Ireland they intend to bring in a fixed penalty notice regime. They will hand out penalty points to those offenders found to be over the new limit but under the old one. There is no appetite amongst the public or road safety groups in England and Wales to reduce the penalties and not disqualify offenders who flout the law. Nor would we wish to create in the minds of potential offenders the thought that they might get only a fine and penalty points and so encourage them to drink and drive.

In England and Wales, the success we have had in tackling drink-driving has been down to the severe penalties, rigorously enforced and backed up with hard-hitting campaigns, which now make this behaviour utterly socially unacceptable. Our roads continue to be amongst the safest in the world because we crack down on those who break the law. Last year we made it a requirement for those convicted of drink-driving offences to undertake medical tests to ensure they are not still dependent on alcohol before they are allowed to drive again.

The same legislation, the Deregulation Act 2015, also made an important change to drink-driving laws by removing the so-called “statutory option”, which allowed drivers who provided a breath test that was slightly in excess of the prescribed limit to demand a blood or urine test back at the station. By removing this provision, individuals have been denied the chance to sober up and so drop below the prescribed limit while waiting for a blood or urine sample to be taken.

Yes, there is always more to be done, but harmonisation with other countries with a poorer record of tackling drink-driving is not a reason in itself to lower the limit.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

In this debate no one has said that we want to lower the penalties—just to lower the limits. We have a good record in this country, and I give credit to our police service for that. The noble Baroness’s amendment is asking only to reduce the limits. She did not talk about penalties or enforcement, and, of course, as my noble friend Lord Harris said, if we looked at the number of deaths caused under the limit enforced now and above the proposed limit, we could save more lives.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the arguments proposed by noble Lords are ones we have heard for many years. The arguments have not changed. Why, therefore, did the party opposite not lower the limit when they were in government? The reason is that it is a tricky issue.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb]

My Lords, we are not talking about the past but about now. We have an opportunity to do something now: to save lives and prevent serious injuries. I do not understand this reluctance to face facts. As the noble Lord said—is he a friend?

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

Yes, I am.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb]

As my noble friend said, we are not talking about comparing ourselves with other countries, and nor are we arguing for any other changes. We are not talking about drug-driving but specifically about drink-driving and the damage it does to innocent lives.

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I think we share a common objective, especially in the run-up to Christmas, of wanting to see a reduction in the number of people killed and injured on our roads as a result of drink-driving. However, I put it to noble Lords that the most effective way to achieve this is not through this amendment but through the continued robust enforcement of the current law.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

The Minister said that the statistics on what is happening in Scotland will be available shortly. Is she telling the Committee that the UK Government will evaluate them when they become available?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the UK Government will look at them with great interest. There may be compelling evidence that comes out of them. Basically, the Government will look at them when they come out.

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[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I rise briefly to support the general thrust of these amendments because the underlying legislation and the policy behind it was so fatally flawed. I am just sad that it took me and many others so long to realise that the whole policy was 100% flawed and caused unnecessary problems.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

My Lords, this has been an important debate and I am pleased to be able to respond on behalf of the Opposition.

I can support all the amendments in this group as far as they go, although some go further than others. I was particularly pleased to see the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, which extend posthumous pardons to Northern Ireland. However, further rights need to be won for LGBT people and women in Northern Ireland, as well as on the mainland. We must return to them at a later date.

I join my noble friend Lord Cashman in paying tribute to the noble Lords, Lord Lexden and Lord Sharkey, for their tireless campaigning. I also pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Cashman for his tireless campaigning to deliver equality for LGBT people. There has been tremendous progress in the past 20 years in particular, and my noble friend has been there, standing up, making the case and challenging prejudice, hate and injustice. We are all grateful to him. The most comprehensive amendments in the group are those in the name of my noble friend and they have my full support. I very much agree with him that granting a pardon to any person convicted of or cautioned for a now-abolished offence, providing they meet certain conditions, and regardless of whether they are living or dead, is the way to proceed. His amendments go further in that they extend pardons to those convicted or cautioned under Section 32 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956 or the Vagrancy Act.

My noble friend made it clear that nothing in his amendments would grant a pardon to any person convicted or cautioned for soliciting. Nor would the amendments grant a pardon to anyone convicted or cautioned in respect of conduct involving a person under the age of 16. My noble friend gave an important illustration of the effect of Section 32 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956, and I agree that it is important to right this wrong for both those who are living and those who are dead. Treat them equally. This is the right thing to do. No one would be pardoned for anything that is still an offence. I hope your Lordships’ House will accept my noble friend’s amendments.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I am pleased to be able, on behalf of the Government, to warmly welcome Amendments 214E, 214F, 214G, 239A and 246, and I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, on bringing them forward, as well as the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, who spoke so movingly.

As the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, explained, these amendments broadly do two things. First, they confer an automatic pardon on deceased individuals convicted of certain consensual gay sexual offences that would not be offences today. Secondly, they confer a pardon on those persons still living who have a conviction for such an offence that has been disregarded under the terms of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. It is important to note that for the pardon to apply, the conduct in question must have been consensual and involved another person aged 16 or over, which is the current age of consent. The conduct must also not involve an offence of sexual activity in a public lavatory, which is still illegal today.

This historic step is momentous in righting wrongs suffered by thousands of gay and bisexual men. It is a tragedy that people were criminalised over a shamefully long time for something that society regards today as normal sexual activity. It is time to right the wrongs of the past and I am pleased to support the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, in putting forward these amendments.

It is important that we link the pardons for the living to the disregard process so that the necessary checks can be carried out to identify whether the individual in question engaged in activity that constitutes an offence today. Since the disregard scheme under the Protection of Freedoms Act came into force, eight disregard applications that concerned non-consensual activity have been rejected. It is therefore crucial that a pardon for the living should only follow a successful disregard application. This mitigates the risk of individuals claiming to be cleared of offences that are still crimes today. It takes into account and protects the rights of victims and ensures that children and vulnerable people are safeguarded from potential risks. This is extremely important and an objective with which I am sure noble Lords would agree. It is for these reasons that the Government cannot commend to the Committee Amendment 214S in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Cashman.

The amendments in the name of my noble friend Lord Lexden seek to make corresponding provision for Northern Ireland. The Committee will be aware of the established convention that the UK Parliament legislates on devolved matters in Northern Ireland only with the consent of the Northern Ireland Assembly. Subject to observing that convention, the Government are ready to look favourably at amendments at a later stage of the Bill along the lines proposed by my noble friend.

I understand that on Monday of this week, the Ministry of Justice tabled an amendment to a legislative consent Motion before the Northern Ireland Assembly seeking its consent to the UK Parliament legislating on this matter. If the proposed legislative consent Motion can make sufficient progress over the next two to three weeks, I would anticipate that the Government will be able to work with my noble friend to come to an agreement before the Bill leaves this House. I should add that the Scottish Government have separately announced their intention to bring forward legislation in the Scottish Parliament.

I turn to Amendment 214R, which is again in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Cashman. The amendment seeks to extend the disregard scheme to include convictions for the soliciting offence in the now-repealed Section 32 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956. Under the current disregard scheme, for the now-repealed offences of buggery and gross indecency between men, it is a relatively straightforward matter to establish whether the relevant statutory conditions are met; namely that the other person involved in the conduct consented and was aged 16 or over, and the conduct would not now constitute the offence of sexual activity in a public lavatory. In contrast, the soliciting offence in Section 32 of the 1956 Act covered a broad range of behaviours and, as such, it is not a straightforward matter to formulate additional conditions to ensure that behaviour which would still constitute an offence today cannot be the subject of a disregard. It is likely that any such conditions would entail more than simply establishing facts—for example, whether the other person was aged 16 or over—and require a shift to making judgments as to whether an activity would be captured by a range of different offences today. This creates some practical challenges in accessing records in sufficient detail to make that judgment.

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[Lord Paddick]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I cannot let the opportunity go past without congratulating my noble friend Lord Sharkey on what is a phenomenal achievement. I am very grateful to the Government for the support that they have finally given to his amendment.

I turn to another contentious issue. Amendment 214Q stands in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Hamwee. As we have just discussed, with government support my noble friend Lord Sharkey has moved amendments—and we have just passed those amendments—to grant pardons to those convicted of offences that only gay men could commit and that are no longer on the statute book because they were considered discriminatory. These offences are symbolic to the gay community and it is striving to ensure equality in law and in society as a whole.

There is another offence that is symbolic to another minority, which is no longer an offence on the statute book and is considered by many to be another example of what amounts to an historic injustice. Parliament repealed the offence because it was accepted that it was being used in a discriminatory manner by the police; it is the offence of being a suspected person loitering with the intent to commit what was originally an indictable, and later, an arrestable offence. Although the term “sus” has recently been more widely used to describe the use of police “stop and search” powers, it was originally confined to the criminal offence of being a suspected person under Section 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824. The offence required the evidence of two witnesses, usually two police officers patrolling together. The usual evidence was of a suspected person being seen to try three car door handles, in an attempt to steal the car or from it, or the suspect putting his shoulder to the doors of three homes, with the intention of committing burglary.

The difficulty with the offence was the absence in almost every case of any corroboration, either from witnesses other than police officers, or any physical or forensic evidence. Both the police officers and, usually, young black men, who were almost exclusively the target under sus, knew that it was the word of two police officers against a young black man with no other witnesses or evidence or any other corroboration. This allowed unscrupulous police officers to invent evidence against those who had, at least on that occasion, done nothing wrong.

Of course, some will say that a miscarriage of justice did not occur on every occasion of someone being convicted of being a suspected person and, of course, I cannot say that that was the case. However, I can say—I hope that Members of this House agree with this—that thousands of innocent young black men were convicted, which caused huge pain and distress, destroying the trust and confidence between the community and the police.

I was a police officer—a bobby on the beat, a patrol officer—at the height of the use of that aspect of Section 4 of the Vagrancy Act. In 1975 and 1976, the year I joined the Metropolitan Police, more than 40% of those arrested for sus were black people, when at the time black people accounted for only 2% of the population. It was because by the end of the 1970s you were 15 times more likely to be arrested for sus if you were black than if you were white, far more than the disproportionality in stop and search, that in 1980 the Home Affairs Select Committee recommended the repeal of the legislation. It also threatened to introduce a Private Member’s Bill if the Government did not take action, but the Government did.

There was a great deal of concern, even among police officers at the time—me included—over the use of the offence, in that we knew about the claims of the black community that it was used as a tool to oppress black people. If there was evidence of another offence—for example, attempted theft of or from a motor vehicle or attempted burglary—not only were these offences less likely to be open to question but the penalties were more severe. In other words, if there had been substantive evidence, physical or forensic evidence, which in those days would have been simply fingerprints, then the much safer, more acceptable and far less contentious route was to arrest and charge for the substantive offence rather than sus.

My second comment is anecdotal. I was at Highbury Corner Magistrates’ Court with someone I had arrested. The stipendiary magistrate, Toby Springer, would want to hear from the arresting officer in every case except for those of being drunk and incapable. The case just before me was an arrest made by a colleague for whom I had respect for his honesty and professionalism. He had arrested someone for sus, and the young black man who had been arrested pleaded guilty to the offence and was fined. Downstairs in the cells, where the young man had to pay his fine before being released, I spoke to my colleague, and I remember this very distinctly. I said to him that he had restored my faith in sus because here was a trusted colleague with someone who had pleaded guilty in court to the offence, so the criticisms made by the black community, at least in some cases of sus, were clearly unjustified. He told me what had happened. He and a colleague had turned a street corner and the person he had arrested looked at the police officers and ran away. The officers ran after the youth and caught him. The youth was given the ultimatum, “Do you want attempted burglary or sus?”. The youth said, “Sus”. Presumably realising that the odds were stacked against him, he then went through the whole process admitting to something that he had never done.

Sus is another example of an offence that should never have been on the statute book, or at least an offence that was designed to deal with soldiers coming home from the Napoleonic wars and making a nuisance of themselves should not still have been on the statute book 150 years later. Not every part of Section 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824 was repealed by the Criminal Attempts Act 1981, but those other offences are, and should be, a debate for another time.

Bearing in mind how long it has taken my noble friend Lord Sharkey to achieve what he has achieved for the gay community through his long campaign for justice, and in the absence of the equivalent of an Alan Turing figure regularly to hand in the case of sus, I am not expecting instant agreement from the Government. However, I ask the Minister to think carefully about what has been a symbolic offence for the black community. It has created huge pain and distress for decades. To pardon those convicted under this legislation—repealed because of its acknowledged discriminatory application and potential for misuse—would be of immeasurable importance to the black community.

Not only did sus damage relations between the black community and the police, it damaged relationships between the generations in the black community. The first generation of migrants from the Caribbean had great faith in the police and when their sons were arrested they did not believe their tales of the police acting improperly in inventing evidence against them. It drove divisions between generations as well as between police and the subsequent generations. Granting pardons to those convicted of being suspected persons loitering with intent to commit an indictable or arrestable offence would be a huge step forward in healing the pain caused and the damage done to the trust and confidence the black community as a whole had in the police. It would also be a much-needed catalyst to dramatically improve those damaged relations as we work to create safer communities for all. I beg to move.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

I have one question for the Minister when she responds to the noble Lord, Lord Paddick. Does she have any idea of the number of people affected by this?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, has explained, Amendment 214Q seeks to confer a pardon on persons living and deceased who were convicted under Section 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824. The noble Lord has explained that Section 4 was used to persecute young black men and this amendment deals with a separate matter to the one that we have just debated. It is, however, also the case that Section 4 was used to prosecute some gay and bisexual men, so there is a read-across to the earlier debate.

In relation to consensual activity between men over the age of consent, Section 101 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 makes it clear that the disregard scheme covers not only the offences of buggery and gross indecency but attempts to commit such an offence, and an attempt to commit such an offence includes conduct covered by Section 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824. Someone with such a conviction may also apply for that conviction to be disregarded and, if successful, will also receive a pardon under the terms of the new clauses in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey.

As to other conduct unrelated to homosexuality, the Government do not believe that it is appropriate to introduce a pardon for those convicted of an offence just because that offence has now been repealed and the behaviour in question is no longer regarded as criminal. Pardoning is exceptional by nature. The persecution of gay and bisexual men through the criminal law was a clear historical wrong that we should undoubtedly right through a pardon. There is a special and compelling moral case to try to redress wrongs done to gay and bisexual men in the context of the Government’s commitment to equality. The amendments from the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, would, like the pardon for Alan Turing, remove a real and particular stigma that is suffered by the living and still attaches to the recently deceased.

The circumstances the noble Lord has described are quite different and, without looking at the facts of individual cases, it is impossible to know whether the conduct in question would still be an offence today.

In terms of the numbers, I was looking for inspiration but we have no data, I am afraid. On that note, I invite the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

Does the Minister mean that she has no data here or no data at all?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

No data at all, my Lords.

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[Baroness Berridge]

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendment 219CA. This lengthy amendment, which at the outset I accept will need recrafting on Report, seeks to deal with a simple problem that has cropped up in our law. It has done so accidentally, I think, but if not sorted out it will cause injustice. Although it is late, a short description of the law and the problem is necessary by way of background.

Successive Governments have sought to tackle forced marriage, beginning with the Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Act 2007 and with further criminalisation in the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014. To make these remedies effective, the law incorporated—for the first time, I believe—a definition of marriage that included marriages that were not at that time valid under UK law. I quote from the Crown Prosecution Service guidelines on the definition of “marriage”. It states that,

“‘marriage’ means any religious or civil ceremony … recognised by the customs of the parties to it, or the laws of any country in which it is carried out, as constituting a binding agreement, whether or not it would be legally binding according to the law of England and Wales”.

So a relationship that UK law does not currently define as marriage can now, for very good reason, count in our criminal courts and some of our civil courts, for forced marriage purposes, as a marriage. However, this leaves a gap.

A party to a forced marriage that is not valid under UK law cannot use that conviction as evidence of the marriage in the family courts to gain financial remedies. If you have entered into a marriage under duress—a forced marriage that is valid under UK law—that can be the subject of a crime or a civil protection order. You can then, because it is valid under UK law, go to the family courts and say, “I was forced into this marriage under duress”. It is then voidable and it can be annulled. This opens the door to financial relief and the distribution of the matrimonial property.

If under duress in our law you are forced into a religious marriage, it is valid for the purposes of our law in the criminal courts for a criminal offence under the civil protection forced marriage regime, but you are not then entitled to then take that conviction to the Family Court to obtain matrimonial remedy. This is a very different situation from the marriages valid under UK law, as I have outlined, for which you can get an annulment or, of course, a divorce. So if our law has accepted this small number of relationships as marriage for the purpose of the law on forced marriage, why can they not be used for other purposes, such as gaining financial remedy? Not allowing them to be used in this way is a real injustice to those victims of forced marriage who come forward to the Crown Courts but are left with the doors of the Family Courts shut to them in terms of matrimonial property.

I am not seeking for the law to see this small number of relationships as marriages for all purposes or to foist this on a person who, even after there is a conviction for forced marriage, wishes it to be viewed for all other purposes as the religious marriage it was but under duress. Surely, however, that person, in a forced marriage under duress that was a religious marriage, should have a choice—leave it as a religious marriage or take the conviction and be allowed to claim financial remedy under the Matrimonial Courts Act and other such remedies as he or she may on occasion need.

Many of those who have spoken to me on this issue are practising barristers and solicitors. There are many women who, some practitioners believe, do not come forward after years in a forced marriage that is valid only as a religious marriage under our law, as they know that our law leaves them without means to claim matrimonial property. They know they risk the only recourse being welfare benefits, particularly if their children are now adults and they have no claim for maintenance based on caring for the children. Their view is that many of these women would come forward to the Crown Court but are reluctant to do so because they do not want to leave themselves financially vulnerable and unable to access financial remedies. We have an anomaly created by the entry of a different definition of marriage into our law.

Surely it would be just for these people and for the taxpayer to allow someone who is the victim of a forced marriage of this nature to claim, if they wish, the matrimonial property as well. By analogy, we do not retry domestic violence convictions in our Family Courts after the Crown Courts convict a husband or wife. The conviction is accepted as evidence and used by the Family Courts. Why can a forced marriage conviction not also be used in such a simple procedural way to unlock the discretion to redistribute the property and bring justice and consistency in this regard across all our courts—civil, family and criminal?

I hope that my noble friend the Minister might have time to meet with the interested groups that are concerned about this problem in our law. I raised this matter at the time with the anti-social behaviour Bill, and it has come back because there are concerns around the gap we have left for victims of forced marriages that are religious marriages which are not fully accepted under our law. The amendment is a pre-emptive strike to try to avoid this injustice happening and potentially encourage a larger number of women to come forward because they will not risk their property rights, and they will be able to claim the matrimonial property as well as get a conviction in the Crown Court. I beg to move.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness, Lady Chisholm, told the Committee, this clause confers lifelong anonymity on the victims of forced marriage in England and Wales. The first amendment, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Williams of Trafford, extends that provision to cover Northern Ireland as well. I understand that this is at the request of the Justice Department in Northern Ireland. That is welcome, and we on these Benches support these amendments. Amendment 215 is the main amendment, while Amendments 237 and 241 are consequential and would bring the provision into effect.

Amendment 219CA is in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge. She makes a powerful case to right an injustice that leaves the victim unable to seek redress. That is not right, and the Government should come forward to correct this. I will be interested to hear what the Minister will say in her response to this amendment. She made a persuasive argument; I hope that we will get a positive response from the noble Baroness, Lady Chisholm, and that the Government can deal with it, either now or on Report.

[Baroness Hamwee]

My Lords, we on these Benches very much support the noble Baroness’s amendment. She has obviously been working at this for some time—I see from her face that she has—and her explanation is clear and obviously based on the experiences of which she is aware. So we give her our support.

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[Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen]

I was not suggesting that, just that there are difficulties—other reasons why it could be more difficult to bring in. That is not to say that we are not keen to look further at this issue. However, because we want to consider the findings of the sharia law review, I ask my noble friend to withdraw her amendment so that we have a chance to do that.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

What is the timescale for the review that the Minister mentioned?

[Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen]

That is up to the review and we do not know yet.

Community Pharmacy in 2016-17 and Beyond

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Thursday 20th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Chisholm, for repeating the Statement made by her honourable friend in the other place. Community pharmacies play a huge role in our health and social care system. It is estimated that 80% of patient contact in the NHS is with community pharmacies. Elderly people and those with long-term conditions, in particular, rely on the service provided by their community pharmacy.

For all the warm words and reassurance from the noble Baroness, nothing in the Statement gives comfort to anyone. It confirms, despite concerns raised in this House and the other place and the concerns of the pharmacy sector, patients and the general public, that the Government are carrying on as before. Policy option 2 in the impact assessment, the Government’s preferred policy option, states that,

“there is no reliable way of estimating the number of pharmacies that will close as a result of this policy”.

So we have spending cuts—12% for the rest of this year, 7.4% for next year—and an impact assessment in which the Government admit that they have no idea how many pharmacies will close, but we are supposed to accept the claim at the end of the Statement, that

“my firm belief that the future for community pharmacy is bright”.

To make that claim have an ounce of credibility, the Government will have to do a lot better than the Statement produced today for the House.

We face unprecedented demand on health and social care services, and the importance of local pharmacies is greater than ever. When I go to my GP or my local pharmacy, there are always posters up telling people to go to their local pharmacy for a variety of conditions, not the GP or A&E.

Can the noble Baroness tell the House what she estimates the effect of the spending cuts will be on GP services in general, the out-of-hours service in particular, and on pressure on A&Es, where there is already a problem with people seeking treatment who should really be dealt with by other parts of the NHS?

There is very little information about the effect of these cuts, but some research has been commissioned on the effect of cuts to the pharmacy sector. The results are staggering: 36% of pharmacies could be forced to reduce their opening hours; 76% might have to limit currently free services, such as deliveries to housebound patients; 52% could reduce access to the pharmacist; and 76% could reduce staffing levels.

That does not sound like a bright future for community pharmacies to me; that sounds more like putting patient safety and welfare at risk with ill-thought-out plans. Can the noble Baroness say more about the effect of the Government’s plans on areas of greatest deprivation? Has she come across the pharmacy care law, a product of research undertaken by Durham University, considering the relation between community pharmacy distribution, urban areas and social deprivation in England? What evidence can she provide that the targeting of clusters in areas of the highest deprivation will not affect people who need healthcare services the most, and potentially further widen healthcare inequalities?

Can the Minister tell the House about the effect of the measure contained in this Statement on rural areas? We have heard the statement from the Government that no community will be left without a pharmacy. So can the noble Baroness, Lady Chisholm, give a commitment today that no rural area will lose its pharmacy as a result of these measures and tell us what specifically the Government will be doing to deliver on that commitment, as we need more than warm words? Has the Minister considered the impact that these measures could have on other NHS services? How does she square the desire from the Government for community pharmacies to do more to relieve pressure on GPs and A&E services when, as a result of these actions, opening times, services and the viability of these pharmacies could be put at risk?

In conclusion, if in the time allowed the Minister cannot answer all the points that I have raised today, I hope that she will give a firm commitment from the Dispatch Box to write to me and place a copy in the Library.

[Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen]

I thank the noble Lord for his questions. These reforms will make the necessary modernisation to provide the best possible service for the patient. He mentioned the problems with pharmacies closing and asked where that was going to leave us. We are investing £112 million to deliver a further 1,500 pharmacies in general practice by 2020. The NHS England pharmacy integration fund will be focused on the deployment of clinical pharmacies and pharmacy services in the community and primary care settings, including groups of general practices, care homes and urgent care settings, such as NHS 111. This will improve access for patients, relieve the pressure on GPs and A&E departments, ensure optimal use of medicines and derive better value, improving outcomes for patients.

The noble Lord also asked about pharmacies in deprived areas and rural communities. That is why we are setting up the primary access scheme and are today publishing the list of those pharmacies that will be eligible for funding from the pharmacy access scheme. These pharmacies will be protected from the full effect of funding reductions, and the scheme will include a review process to deal with any inaccuracies in calculations or any unforeseen circumstances. I hope that that answers the noble Lord’s questions.

Community Pharmacy

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Monday 17th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for repeating the Answer to the Urgent Question that was given in the other place earlier today. It is much appreciated by me and other Members. The stated aim of the Government has been to put pharmacies at the heart of the NHS. However, the proposals here will have serious and far-reaching consequences for patients, local communities and the NHS. Can the noble Baroness tell the House when we can expect to see the full impact assessment of these proposed cuts? What steps have been taken to ensure that the pharmacy access scheme is available to all community pharmacies based on the size and need of the population they serve? Does the noble Baroness see the contradiction in claiming to put pharmacies at the heart of the community while implementing arbitrary cuts? Finally, what steps is she taking to prevent the closure or the reduction of opening hours of community pharmacies?

[Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen]

I thank the noble Lord for those questions. The decision on the impact assessment has obviously not been made yet because the Government are thinking about the problems that have just arisen due to the PSNC not accepting the decisions that we thought had been made. There is no reason why this package should in any way affect the efficiencies of pharmacies at the moment. It is important to remember that the Government fund community pharmacies to the tune of £2.8 billion, and the average pharmacy receives £220,000 per year in NHS funding. We believe that the sector, which is made up of private companies that are often densely clustered together, can withstand this, and that the quality of services provided to patients will not be affected as a result. We know that 40% of pharmacies are in clusters of three or more, which means that two-fifths of pharmacies are within 10 minutes’ walk of two or more other pharmacies.

Electoral Status: Online Access

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

The noble Baroness makes an extremely good point and it is one that I have raised with officials. Electoral registration officers are able to accept applications in person or on the phone, and Electoral Commission guidance encourages them to offer this service to those unable to make an online or paper application for any reason in order to meet their equalities obligations. As I said, the noble Baroness makes an extremely good point and it is one that I am convinced the Electoral Commission will heed.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, I refer noble Lords to my declaration of interests: I am an elected councillor for the London Borough of Lewisham. What plans do the Government have to ask organisations such as the Post Office, the Department for Work and Pensions, the DVLA and HM Passport Office to help people to get on to the electoral register by asking the people they come into contact with whether they are registered to vote and pointing out the benefits, such as an improved credit rating, with information on their forms and a link to the site to register to vote?

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

The noble Lord makes a good, practical point. I have had conversations with other agencies across government about precisely that, and we are actively considering how we can use the regular communications that government undertakes with individuals. However, I am told that, where this has been piloted in the past, there has been a problem with mixed messages—in other words, a call to action to do one thing can be confused with a call to action to do another. But the noble Lord is absolutely right and it is a matter that I continue to look at.

European Union Referendum: Young Voters

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Thursday 26th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, first, like other noble Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Llandudno, on securing this short debate and on his persistence in raising the issue of electoral registration. It is of great importance. When we consider how many people are still not registered to vote, particularly young people, it is an issue we must return to again and again until the Government take effective action.

As we have heard, on 23 June we have a once-in-a-lifetime decision to make about our membership of the European Union and I am firmly of the opinion that remaining in is in the best interests of everyone in the United Kingdom. Young people, in particular, have an important stake in deciding our future and making sure their voice is heard loud and clear.

I agree with the comments made by my noble friend Lady McDonagh about the problems that certain groups have to get registered. That should be of concern to us all. The noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham, is right when she raises the point of removing people from the register one year early, which has caused specific problems and made the situation much worse today. The noble Lord, Lord Rennard, also made a compelling point about the number of people missing from the Electoral Register and the regrettable actions taken by the Government last year.

I also congratulate Bite the Ballot on its work to raise young people’s awareness. The Government should do more to support this organisation, which has done more than any other to address registration among young people, in my opinion. The #TurnUp campaign is one initiative where Governments can provide real support. So will the noble Lord, Lord Bridges of Headley, set out in detail what the Government will do to support this campaign? The noble Lord, Lord Roberts, is spot on when he talks about adding messages on every government website and looking at communication tools. What discussions have the Government had with Facebook, Twitter, Google and others to do more on their platforms? What else is being done? How are we using interaction between the public sector and the citizen to engage with people on the importance of registering to vote?

I hope when the Minister responds that we will not just get a list of figures saying, “We have given £X million here and £X million there”. I hope we will hear the real practical steps being taken to engage with people, the Government’s plan right up to 7 June and the continuation of a registration campaign, and the acceptance that the Government are just not doing enough and that they will do more. Having millions of our citizens eligible but not registered to vote is outrageous and the Government have to step in and sort this out. We can all imagine the government spokesman expressing concern from the Dispatch Box if a similar situation was happening in another country: they would urge that Government to sort the situation out. Well, it is here in the United Kingdom. It is for this Government to sort it out and they need to do so.

We have talked about using different tools and initiatives. For example, this weekend we have the play-off finals at Wembley. There are sell-out crowds each day on Saturday, Sunday and Monday—80,000 each day. I will be there on Sunday supporting my team, Millwall. I hope they get back into the Championship. What is the engagement plan for those events and other events around the country in the next few days?

I very much hope that this country votes to stay in the European Union. We need everyone who is eligible to vote to be registered and we need the Government to provide the leadership necessary, both in the short time left to 7 June and going forward, to get people registered to vote. Elections matter and enabling people to have their say is something we should all seek to deliver, without exception and with no excuses.

I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, that if she checks Hansard she will see my support from this Dispatch Box and from the Division Lobby for votes at 16, with colleagues from the Labour Benches, although when it became clear that the elected House and the Government were not going to move on that, we did not support another round of ping-pong. I again thank the noble Lord, Lord Roberts, for tabling the Question and enabling us to have this short debate.

Housing and Planning Bill

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Monday 25th April 2016 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

122: Clause 145, page 75, line 7, leave out second “person” and insert “local authority or public body”

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Moved by

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

123: Clause 145, leave out Clause 145

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[Lord True]

My Lords, I hesitate to interrupt the tour de force of my noble friend Lord Younger. In 100 years’ time, historians will read Hansard and marvel at his command of the law of compulsory purchase. I can say to those future historians that I am absolutely amazed by what he has told us.

Because of time, I will be very brief. I seem to be unfortunate in addressing noble Lords at this late hour every day. I have tried to put forward a creative idea in response to the intolerable position whereby public authorities fail to develop land when they should. I declare an interest as a non-executive member of the Royal Parks Board. The Royal Parks are referred to in this amendment, but that is technical.

I spoke to this in Committee at a different point in the Bill. I do not want to detain your Lordships long, but the issue is simple. To give one example, which actually would not be addressed but it is the spirit of the thing, a planning permission that has been granted in my borough, over intense opposition, to build 110 homes has not yet been proceeded with by a public authority after five years. Another example would be an official from a health service body who said, when pressed in discussion with my planning officers recently to proceed with a development on a site brief to develop new homes, a small primary school and medical facilities, “Well, if you keep going on like that, we could leave this lying fallow for years”. That is the sort of mentality that exists too often. I congratulate the Government on trying to get to grips in the Bill with brown land that is held by government departments, public bodies and other statutory and transport undertakings. I will not venture to mention Network Rail.

My amendment is defective in many ways. I am not suggesting that it could operate in this way. But I am encouraged to press forward in the hope that, instead of always criticising local authorities, my noble friend on the Front Bench may be able to say that, over the weeks and months to come, he is prepared to consider giving local authorities the opportunity to do something to get these buildings and developments done. At the moment we are taking incoming fire but are not able to press those who are failing in their public duty, in my estimation. I beg to move.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, I support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord True. It is an excellent idea. I hope the Minister will come back, as the noble Lord suggested, with some suggestions for what could be done in the next few months with local authorities.

When I go to Lewisham Town Hall, I get off at Catford Bridge station and walk past a scruffy bit of land clearly owned by the railway that you could easily get six or seven houses on. It just sits there and irritates me every day. The railways have bits of land near them. On a number of sites in Lewisham you could build some houses. We are in the midst of a housing crisis and there is no good reason that this land just sits there. I hope the Minister will respond favourably to the points made by the noble Lord, Lord True.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Lord Bridges of Headley) (Con)]

Well, my Lords, that was very brief. I, too, will try to be very brief. Before addressing the amendments in this group, I want quickly to update your Lordships on discussions I have had since Committee. In Committee I promised to write to my noble friend Lord Carrington of Fulham to clarify the position of the Corporation of London, given its unique hybrid nature. I take this opportunity to reassure the corporation that our intention is to apply regulations under this part of the Act to the corporation in its capacity as a local authority only, and that the drafting of the Bill allows for this.

Turning to the amendments in this group, I will start with Amendment 129 in the name of my noble friend Lady Williams. Clause 185 provides a power for the Secretary of State, in circumstances to be specified in regulations, to direct a relevant public authority to take steps for the disposal of the body’s freehold or leasehold interest in any land. At present, the regulations setting out these circumstances will be subject to the negative resolution procedure. Amendment 129 amends Clause 185 to require the affirmative procedure to be used instead, as recommended by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee.

I thank my noble friend Lord True—he is indeed a friend—for his arguments and concerns regarding Amendment 129YE. I entirely agree with him and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, that surplus land held by public bodies should be brought forward for development without delay, and that local authorities, which are indeed expert on local planning matters, should be able to make their voice heard. That is why we are introducing the duty on Ministers to engage with them under Clause 183.

I assure your Lordships that the Government are equally committed to making sure that more public land is brought forward for development and that surplus land is released for development, including for housing, without delay. I think we all share the impatience for this to happen, and Clauses 184 and 185 will help to deliver it. Clause 184 will ensure that relevant public bodies report any land which has been held as surplus for two years or more—six months for residential land—and the reasons why.

It pains me to say that my noble friend’s amendment could risk undermining this—he himself said it was defective—by giving a local authority the ultimate power, if it does not accept the reasons put forward by the landholding body why the land should not be developed at this time, to force development to proceed. I fully accept that most local authorities would not use this power for mischief making, but the potential would exist. More pertinently, there would be cases in which a fine balance of judgments would need to be made regarding a public authority’s total land asset requirements, at a national level, now and in the future. Given their local focus, however well meaning they may be—and they are well meaning—local authorities are not that well placed to make these judgments. Getting them wrong would undermine carefully planned land disposal strategies across the wider public sector.

The Government’s view is that this power should sit with the Secretary of State, who is best placed to take a balanced judgement on a given public body’s need for the land, taking account of their broader functions, future plans and assets. However, there should be no doubt about our commitment to ensuring that unused public land is put to good use.

My noble friend Lord True has also tabled Amendment 129A—

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[Lord Bridges of Headley]

Amendment 129A, to which the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, has added his name, would remove Clause 186 from the Bill. This clause mirrors Section 86 of the Climate Change Act 2008, which requires the Minister for the Cabinet Office to publish an annual State of the Estate report setting out progress in improving the efficiency of the civil estate.

Local authorities are already subject to a number of efficiency and sustainability requirements, such as producing energy efficiency certificates for their buildings. The new duty draws on these and requires authorities to publish reports to enable local people to hold them to account for the use of their assets. I reassure noble Lords that any additional costs to local authorities will be met by central government. DCLG is currently undertaking a new burdens assessment of Clauses 183 to 187 to determine which of the provisions create new burdens, and their extent.

Finally, I turn to Amendment 129ZA, proposed by the noble Lords, Lord Kennedy and Lord Beecham, which would remove Clause 185 from the Bill. The power to order disposals was brought into effect through the Local Government, Planning and Land Act 1980. The power underpins the community right to reclaim land, which enables people to hold public authorities to account for their use of land. Under this right, communities can drive improvements in their local area by asking the Secretary of State to direct that underused or unused land owned by public bodies is brought back into beneficial use.

Since 1 April 2011, when the National Planning Casework Unit was tasked with considering requests under the right, we have received 106 requests. Only one of these resulted in the power being exercised, over a piece of land of 0.26 hectares in Tiddington, near Stratford-upon-Avon—no doubt a blessed plot. A great deal of effort has been expended by those making requests, and by the casework unit in considering them, for very little gain. This is why the Government wish to strengthen the existing legislation—to enable people to challenge their local authorities to release land, even where it is used, if it could be put to better use. Far from being centralising, Clause 185 gives more power to local communities.

The 1980 Act already provides important safeguards which will continue to apply to the new provisions. Public bodies must be notified of the Secretary of State’s proposal to exercise the power and are given 42 days in which to make representations. If a representation is made, the Secretary of State may not give a direction unless he is satisfied that the disposal can be made without serious detriment to the performance of the body’s functions.

All this shows that we are determined to ensure that public land is used as efficiently as possible, and that where it can be made surplus and put to better use, especially in building more homes, this happens as quickly as possible. These clauses are essential to that agenda, and I hope that noble Lords will be fully reassured by the explanations I have given.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

My Lords, before the Minister sits down, I was a little disappointed by his response to the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord True. The bits of land I am talking about are not big or strategic. No one wants to use them. They have sat there for years. There are now trees growing there. That is of no benefit whatsoever. The Minister suggests that this power should be held by the Secretary of State and that local councils would be mischievous. This is about us building three or four houses and getting a bit of scruffy land cleaned up, sorted out and into use. I cannot see why that would be better in the hands of the Secretary of State than the local council.

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I understand the point the noble Lord is making, but when we are talking about public authorities’ land that may stretch the entire breadth of the country, the Government believe that it is in our interest to ensure that the Secretary of State takes that decision.

European Union Referendum (Conduct) Regulations 2016

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Monday 22nd February 2016 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Lord Bridges of Headley) (Con)]

My Lords, the draft conduct regulations set out the detailed framework for administration of the referendum poll and are largely procedural in nature. I would like to start by thanking members of the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, which considered and approved these draft regulations on 5 February, and the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, which has also considered them and published a considered and helpful report on 11 February.

The conduct regulations specify items such as the way that ballot papers will be issued and how voting will take place in polling stations. They also specify the arrangements for absent voting at the referendum, which provide for people to vote by post or by proxy as an alternative to voting in person. They cover the arrangements for the counting of votes and declaration of results as well as the way that ballot papers and other referendum documents will be disposed of following the poll. Existing electoral offences such as double voting are also applied to the referendum by the regulations.

As noble Lords will no doubt be aware, all elections have conduct rules—they are a routine part of every British poll. We have modelled these conduct regulations on the rules that we used to administer the parliamentary voting system referendum in May 2011, which were themselves modelled on those used for UK parliamentary elections. The Parliament and Government of Gibraltar will make rules for the administration of the referendum there. In addition, minor changes to the UK rules have been required to reflect the fact that the European Union referendum will take place in Gibraltar as well as in the United Kingdom.

Noble Lords will also note that we have also taken into account changes in electoral law since the 2011 referendum as well as recommendations from the Electoral Commission. For example, in line with the Electoral Registration and Administration Act 2013, the regulations provide for people who are queuing at the point when a polling stations closes to vote.

The conduct regulations were published in draft in July 2015 in order to give the Electoral Commission, Members of Parliament and other interested parties an opportunity to review their content and to comment. This gave electoral administrators significant notice and allowed them to begin their planning activity far in advance of the poll. The responses that we received, which were largely technical in nature, were carefully considered before the conduct regulations were finalised. I beg to move.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, I say at the outset that I genuinely have no issues with the regulations before me. They are what I would expect to ensure a well-run, efficient referendum, and ensuring a well-run referendum is in everyone’s interest. We must never allow the conduct, or otherwise, of any ballot, election or referendum to become the story. However, I have a number of questions for the noble Lord, Lord Bridges of Headley, and I will go straight into them.

How will the noble Lord ensure that counting officers and their staff have sufficient resources in place to conduct this referendum properly? What plans do the Government have to impress upon the chief counting officer, the regional counting officers and the local counting officers the importance of delivering a well-run referendum and of avoiding past mistakes in elections? Do the Government intend to impress upon the chief counting officer the need to use her powers of direction at any point where she feels that confidence in the running of the ballot could be undermined by poor practice by counting officers and their staff?

We need an absolute guarantee that ballot papers for every single voter in the UK will be printed and available at the polling station—not just an estimated number that the local counting officer thinks may turn up to vote. How will the Government ensure that this happens? In the past, problems have been caused by people arriving in the last 30 minutes and not being able to vote. What specific actions will the Government be taking in this referendum to ensure that there are sufficient staff on duty at each ballot station to cope with a last-minute surge of people?

We have all cast a vote many times in the past. Let us think back: is the polling station we normally use adequate if a large number of people come in to vote? How will the Government ensure that polling stations can cope with a larger number of arrivals than normal? I know that you cannot change where the station is, but it may be that, instead of the usual smaller room, you could move to a bigger room in the school or whatever is being used.

What discussions will the Government have with the police about their role in ensuring that the referendum is free and fair? What discussions will the Government have with the police and crime commissioners to ensure a free and fair referendum?

How will the Government address the problem of a very close overall result and the calls for a full national recount that will inevitably follow? There will be local counts with a big win for one side and, frankly, all the people could have packed up and gone home. Is that something in the hands of the chief counting officer, or is there no provision for it?

When is the counting of votes going to take place? I hope the noble Lord will confirm that counting will start as quickly as possible after 10 pm. It is necessary for this to be done expeditiously, with counts starting at the same time across the UK.

Can the Minister explain the thinking of the Government on the regulated period? A 10-week regulated period would overlap with the elections for the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament. If a seven-week regulated period was in place then the elections and the referendum would be separate, which would be much clearer for everyone.

How are the Government going to ensure that the more than 2 million British citizens living abroad are able to register and vote?

Those are the points I have at the moment, but I hope that if the Minister responds to those, he will not mind if I put other points to him later. As I have said, I have no issues with the regulations as they stand. My questions arise only from reading the documents and wanting to ensure that we have a proper referendum and that the process does not become the story.

[Lord Hayward (Con)]

May I ask, following on from that question, about the counting of postal votes? I noted that the Minister had a look of horror, concern or surprise—I am not sure which it was—when I came into the Room. He was fairly sure that I would ask one question or another. Under normal circumstances, postal votes are counted over a number of days and, despite the Electoral Commission’s best guidance which is being implemented by most councils, it is sometimes possible to see the results of those postal votes. Given that, in these circumstances, any leak of information will be seriously market sensitive in relation to the value of the pound and other aspects that might impact on the City and the world’s stock markets, could my noble friend say whether postal votes will be counted on the day, thereby minimising the chance of leaks in advance, or, as they normally are in other elections, over a series of days?

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I thank both noble Lords who have spoken, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, who speaks with a lot of experience. I will try to answer his excellent questions. Like him, I wish to see this referendum being conducted properly, fairly and efficiently. I will answer his questions in the spirit in which he asked them.

The noble Lord asked how the Government plan to ensure that counting officers and their staff at polling stations have sufficient resources to conduct the referendum properly, and about what plans we have to impress on chief, regional and local counting officers the importance of delivering a well-run referendum and avoiding past mistakes in elections. Those are fair questions. The Electoral Commission’s planning for the referendum, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, is already well under way; a management structure of groups and the regional counting officers is in place to ensure effective planning. I am sure that the noble Lord, having himself been an electoral commissioner during the 2011 referendum, will be aware of the approach taken by the chief counting officer and her team to ensure that that poll was well-run, and I am sure that she is taking on board and learning from that experience in planning for the poll on 23 June.

A related question was how the Government intend to impress on the chief counting officer the need to use her powers of direction at any point when she might feel confidence in the running of the ballot could be undermined by poor practice by counting officers and their staff. On this point, I am also sure that the chief counting officer and her team at the Electoral Commission will be playing very close attention to the debate and to the remarks that the noble Lord has just made, and will note the legitimate concerns here. This goes without saying, but I will make the obvious point that we are in very close touch with the Electoral Commission on the operations of the poll, and government officials and I will ensure that the noble Lord’s points are flagged up with it directly.

Another related point was about ensuring that ballot papers for every single voter will be printed and available at the polling station and what the Government are doing to ensure that the polling stations are of sufficient size to cope with larger than normal numbers. As the noble Lord will know, the detail of how the polls are run is a matter for the chief counting officer. We are aware that numbers of ballot papers and the logistics of polling stations are among the delivery matters that the Electoral Commission has already considered and planned for with directions and guidance. For example, the chief counting officer has indicated that she will require ballot papers to be printed to cover 110% of the eligible electorate, to ensure that sufficient papers are available, and that contingencies will be in place.

As regards the declaration of the results, the votes will be counted overnight. The conduct rules specify that counting officers must begin counting the votes as soon as practical after polling closes at 10 pm. As well as the overall result of the referendum, which will be decided by a simple majority, separate results will be announced for each voting area and region. Separate results will be declared for each local authority as well as for Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

I live in Lewisham, which possibly will vote heavily in favour of staying in the European Union, but other places will not. Although there may be quite a large result either way, when it is all added together there might be only a few thousand votes in it. I remember that the referendum on the Welsh Assembly was very close, and I think it was the last area to declare that narrowly gave a yes vote. I am conscious that if we end up like that, with a few thousand votes in it nationally, we will have people saying, “Hang on, I want a recount”. How will that happen? Can it happen?

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I will need to write on the details of that. As for the timing, the counting must begin, as I said, as soon as practical after polling closes. The results will be declared by each local authority. I will respond to the noble Lord in writing on the details.

The noble Lord raised a legitimate question as to whether, with a 10-week regulated period, we might have an overlap of the regulated periods for the referendum and for the elections to the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly and the Northern Ireland Assembly. I think he is arguing that if we had a seven-week regulated period, there would be no overlap and a clearer position for everyone. We recognise that some campaigners and political parties will wish to campaign both in the elections to the devolved legislatures and in the referendum. Existing Electoral Commission guidance explains how to split spending limits for elections and referendums. The Electoral Commission has given an undertaking to issue further guidance to explain the impact of the overlapping periods for parties and campaigners who are campaigning in both the EU referendum and the May 2016 elections.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

I am sure the commission will give very good guidance and do it very well, but as his explanation suggests, this is quite complicated. If the periods were split, it would be very different and there would not be these problems. The Minister is absolutely right that those campaigning for elections to all the bodies he has talked about and for the in/out referendum will in many cases be the same people. That is the problem. Maybe it cannot be changed, but there is an issue there and perhaps he could look at that again and talk further to the commission. Its guidance is good, but if this stays as it is, that guidance has to be very clear and precise.

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I completely accept that point and am happy to raise it will the Electoral Commission again. As I say, I very much hope that the commission will be reading this debate with considerable interest, but I am happy to raise the point.

The noble Lord asked about ensuring that British citizens living abroad are able to register in time to vote in the referendum. As the noble Lord might know, the Government have strengthened and simplified the registration process so more voters can take part in elections by registering online. It now takes less than three minutes, and you can register throughout the year wherever you are. Under IER, there is no longer a general requirement for initial applications to be attested by another British citizen resident abroad, which we believe discouraged many Britons from registering in the first place. We have also extended the electoral timetable to give overseas electors more time to cast their votes. As the noble Lord may also know, the Foreign Office’s consular network supported the Electoral Commission’s overseas voter registration day last month to promote voter registration to British citizens abroad, and I urge overseas voters to register as soon as possible, and by 6 June at the latest, in order to take part in the referendum. I think that that probably addresses the points that the noble Lord raised on overseas voters, but I am happy to go into more detail if he so wishes.

The noble Lord also raised discussions with the police, which is a matter for the chief counting officer to take forward, but another good point worth flagging, and I will do so with the Electoral Commission. Postal votes are not counted before the close of the poll, and will be counted along with all other votes after the polls close.

I commend the regulations.

Representation of the People (England and Wales) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2015

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Monday 23rd November 2015 Grand Committee

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, these regulations make a number of changes to the information that needs to be supplied to EROs when applying to register to vote under IER, along with changes to jury summoning in England and Wales, and to correspondence and postal voting. On this issue the Government have on far too many occasions got the balance wrong between completeness and accuracy. They have continued, as they did in the last Parliament, to fail to secure cross-party agreement on these matters, which is a matter of great regret. When my noble friend Lord Wills was in the other place, he had responsibility for these matters. He always sought to get cross-party agreement, which he took seriously. We are not doing that now and it is very regrettable.

I accept that these are relatively small matters, but I fail to see how they help to improve the completeness of the register. The noble Lord said that the Electoral Commission referred to the uncertainty of the impact on electors and on the electoral administration process. Furthermore, as the noble Lord mentioned, the Association of Electoral Administrators thought that this would have a negative impact, as we are moving from mandatory to voluntary previous name provision. SOLACE thought the same.

I find the comments in paragraph 7.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum extraordinary. You are saying that the provision of a previous name increases verification rates, whether it has changed after more or less than 12 months, so you then remove the 12-month mandatory rule and totally ignore the professionals who think that this could lead to fewer people giving the information, thereby increasing the cost and bureaucracy and making the register less complete. This is an example of the Government interfering where they are not wanted. They should have left well alone.

I did not see any reference to political parties in the consultation, which the noble Lord talked about in his remarks. It is not good enough for the Government to say that they will leave it to the Electoral Commission to talk to the political parties. To be clear, it does not do so on these matters. The Government need to consult with the political parties about elections as part of the process. Many experts in all the parties’ headquarters give advice on these things.

Will the noble Lord also provide me with a copy of the ministerial guidance referred to in paragraph 9.1 of the Explanatory Memorandum and explain further how the Cabinet Office will review the completeness and accuracy of the register as referred to in paragraph 12?

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I thank the noble Lord for his short but sweet intervention. I am sorry to say that we might disagree on some points. I do not believe that these provisions quite do what he says. I believe that they will enable us to create a more complete and more accurate register.

The noble Lord asked some detailed questions about how we made these decisions. I will review his questions and, if I may, write to him in due course. In particular, I am more than happy to pick up his point on consultation with political parties as we look ahead in the months to come. Even if we disagree on certain matters, we all certainly agree that we want to see more people engaged in our political system and registered to vote. That is an aim we all share, and I am more than happy to consider ways to work with him on that.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

I am very pleased to hear that. Before the noble Lord was in the House and had his present responsibilities, I was never convinced by that at all. We could do far, far more. As we all know, millions are not registered to vote in this country. That is an absolute disgrace for a democracy such as ours. We could do much more on this, but we are just not getting there at all at the moment.

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I am happy to talk to the noble Lord outside of the Room on that precise point. I do not want to rehearse all the arguments we had on the IER debate a few weeks back, but I believe that there has been some confusion over those who are not on the register and those who are entitled to vote. We need to get more people on the register and encourage greater engagement. I am more than happy to discuss that with the noble Lord. As I said, I will endeavour to write to him to address any of the other points.

European Parliamentary Elections (Miscellaneous Provisions) (United Kingdom and Gibraltar) Order 2015

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Monday 23rd November 2015 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Lord Bridges of Headley) (Con)]

My Lords, the draft order relates to the functioning of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 as it applies to Gibraltar. The Act provides the regulatory framework for political parties and campaigners at elections and referendums. In 2004 the Act was updated to take account of the extension to Gibraltar of the franchise for European Parliament elections. This included establishing which Gibraltar individuals and bodies were eligible to campaign at European parliamentary elections in the south-west region, or to donate to political parties contesting those elections. As far as possible, the eligibility criteria follow the principles that determine which UK individuals and bodies are eligible to donate to political parties and campaign at national elections.

Noble Lords will be aware that the proposed referendum on our membership of the European Union will also take place in Gibraltar. As a result, the European Union Referendum Bill, currently being debated in the Chamber on Report, applies various provisions of the Act that deal with Gibraltar matters.

In drafting the EU Referendum Bill, and from discussions with the Government of Gibraltar, it has been clear that certain references to Gibraltar legislation in the Act are now out of date or otherwise inaccurate. To ensure the effective functioning of the EU referendum, as well as future European parliamentary elections, it is necessary to update and correct these references, and the order will deliver that.

The order also substitutes references to the “House of Assembly of Gibraltar” with references to the “Gibraltar Parliament”. The Gibraltar Parliament replaced the House of Assembly of Gibraltar as a result of the Gibraltar Constitution Order 2006.

Finally, the order also removes certain redundant transitional provisions which accounted for circumstances before the publication of the first version of the Gibraltar electoral register for the purpose of European Parliament elections.

I reassure noble Lords that, in accordance with the Government’s statutory duty, the Electoral Commission has been consulted on this order and has confirmed that it is content with it. Officials have also worked closely with the Government of Gibraltar in preparing the order. I therefore commend it to the Committee.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, I have no comment to make about the order. It is all very straightforward, so I am very happy to support it.

Motion agreed.

Electoral Registration and Administration Act 2013 (Transitional Provisions) Order 2015

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

At end insert “on the grounds that it goes against the advice of the Electoral Commission.”

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as an elected councillor and chair of the registration working party in Lewisham. Previous to that, I was a member of the Electoral Commission.

I am speaking both in support of my amendment and in support of the Motion moved by the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, and I strongly endorse the points he made today. The Labour Party, the Conservative Party, the Liberal Democrats and, I am sure, other parties as well are in favour of individual electoral registration. Originally, the last Labour Government put it on the Statute Book and the coalition Government brought the process forward by bringing into law the Electoral Registration and Administration Act 2013. As the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, has said, the Act, which is less than two years old, has a transition period aimed at full implementation of IER by December 2016. The Government want to scrap that and bring forward the end of the transition period to December 2015, a mere six weeks away.

Let us be clear: the Government are making a rash decision here—a decision that is not supported by the Electoral Commission, which has urged Peers to vote for the Motion in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Tyler. My amendment just incorporates the fact that what the Government are doing goes against the commission’s advice. The commission did not take the decision lightly to recommend that we vote for the Motion in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Tyler. As the noble Lord explained, the commission was set up by Parliament 15 years ago and it gives independent, non-partisan advice to the Government and Parliament on issues concerning electoral registration, party finance and election matters. The commission includes experts in this field, who have been leading advocates for the introduction of IER almost from the day it was set up. They played a leading role in persuading the then Labour Government first to put it on the Statute Books. It was right to make those changes to ensure that our elections were secure.

The transition period is an important part of the full implementation of IER. It should ensure that we have a period of time when work can be done to make electoral registers both accurate and complete. The Government have not made a convincing case as to why this process should be shortened by one year. The Electoral Commission is saying that 1.9 million people are presently being retained on the electoral register who have not been matched. I accept that that figure might go down, but there are still too many people who have not been matched. If the Government bring forward the deadline, we could have up to 1.9 million people taken off the register on 1 December, and that is simply not democratic.

It is worth pointing out that the commission has published research showing that we actually have an under-registration problem in Great Britain, not an overregistration problem. It is also interesting to note the difference between various groups being registered or not registered to vote. The commission produced figures showing that about 4.6% of people over 65 are not registered to vote. That figures leaps to 29.8% for people aged 20 to 24. The highest proportion of unregistered voters is among 16 and 17 year-old attainers, of whom 49% are not registered to vote. Only 6.4% of home owners are not registered to vote, while the figure is 36.4% for those living in rented accommodation. Of the unemployed, 23.6% are not registered to vote. These figures show the wide disparity of registration figures between groups, and that should be of grave concern to us all.

The Electoral Commission is clear that taking the decision before the outcome of the annual canvass means that the decision that the Government are proposing to take is risky because they are acting without reliable information, as we have heard today, on how many redundant entries there will be, how many entries will be removed and how many eligible entries will go back on again for the elections in May 2016—we have massive elections at that time, as we all know. This is not appropriate for the Government, and it is most regrettable. By retaining the cut-off date to the one which we have agreed means we are giving time to the EROs—the professionals—to do more work on improving the accuracy and completeness of the register. I do not think the Government have made a compelling case for bringing forward by one year the date to remove people from the register. I hope the House rejects their proposals today. I beg to move.

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern (Con)]

I have tried to understand the reports of the Electoral Commission published before this and have just seen the one that came out today—I am not sure what the method of transmission to people was but that does not matter. I am concerned that the commission said repeatedly in its advice, as I understood it, that by bringing forward the date of termination of the transition period there is a potential benefit to the accuracy of the register. I have tried to understand it and read the detail. Could the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, help me on what that amounts to?

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

All I can say to the noble and learned Lord is that the commission briefing says there is a benefit of accuracy but also, of course, a risk to completeness—which it ranks as of equal importance.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, I will strike a more positive note in relation to this order than noble Lords who spoke from the opposite side. This is an important order. It has a clear and explicit purpose: to complete the transition to a new system of electoral registration that is infinitely superior to the one it replaces.

The great majority of those registered electors carried over from the old system have now done what was required to make themselves a full and enduring part of the new arrangements. All those who have not done so have now been reminded at least nine times in one way or another of the need for action. Through the deadline that the Government set in July, as they were empowered to do under the 2013 Act, they have in effect issued a final call for action, one that was rather usefully publicised widely over the national media last weekend.

This deadline of 1 December has been strongly endorsed by a body referred to perhaps unduly dismissively by the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, namely the Association of Electoral Administrators, which represents the people who run our elections. A report it published in July concluded that,

“the end of IER transition should be December 2015 to provide certainty for the important elections in 2016 and the European Referendum whenever that is held”.

The organisation’s chief executive, Mr John Turner, added that,

“it is crucial to have the most accurate register possible and have confidence that everyone on the register is who they say they are”.

There are names of people on the existing electoral registers who would not heed any call for action or respond to any deadline, whether that was 1 December 2015, 1 December 2016 or 1 December 2026. This is because the names relate to people who do not exist. One of the great merits of this order is that it bears down on electoral fraud. Deep disquiet has existed for years in our country about electoral fraud and malpractice. It is unquantifiable, but recent well-publicised cases before the courts exhibited it in its full ugliness. Judges in some of these cases have expressed the gravest concern. The Conservative general election manifesto promised to ensure that,

“the Electoral Commission puts greater priority on tackling fraud”.

This order can perhaps be regarded as the first step in giving effect to that most welcome manifesto commitment.

No one will be robbed of the right to vote by this order. Anyone qualified to vote can register at any point, either before or after 1 December. One of the great benefits of the new system is that registration can be accomplished online in a matter of moments, as nearly half a million people found on registration deadline day before this year’s general election.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

As the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said, the Electoral Commission is an independent body but we are not bound to observe it. As I have set out very, very clearly, we believe that we have a strong case for proceeding as we have.

Although this House is unelected, I believe that we should be doing our utmost to protect the integrity and accuracy of our electoral system. That is the duty we have to voters. We believe that it is time to finish the transition to individual electoral registration in December 2015 so that we can all be confident in our electoral register.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

My Lords, this has been an excellent debate. I think the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, is going to accept my amendment, so I am grateful to him for that. The Minister has not made a convincing case to the House this afternoon. The Government also failed to persuade the Electoral Commission, an independent body set up by Parliament which is expert in this field, to which a number of noble Lords referred, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Alton.

As has been said, the Electoral Commission urged the House to support the Motion in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Tyler. My noble friend Lord Wills made a powerful contribution, particularly pointing out that the Electoral Commission recommended the use of ID cards at polling stations. The Government have not moved on that and they should do so if they have concerns about electoral fraud.

The noble Lords, Lord Empey and Lord Lexden, made reference to the Northern Ireland schools initiative. I agree that it is a very good initiative and I have repeatedly said from the Dispatch Box that the Government should introduce it in Great Britain, but to no avail so far. I know that EROs target groups, and supporting the Motion today will be giving more time to EROs to do more work on the register.

The noble Lord, Lord Rennard, made an excellent point about the completeness of the register, which underlines the underregistration problem we have in Great Britain today. It is important to note that a cut-off date of 1 December 2016 was in a government amendment. It has been mentioned here before and nothing has changed since then. No one suggested here today that it is so successful that we can take a year off the period. From my time on the Electoral Commission, I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, that it worked with great determination on IER. It was the champion initially and worked really hard on completeness. When it says that this is a risk, we need to look at that very carefully.

My noble friend Lady McDonagh made an excellent contribution, highlighting the data-matching issues that have been experienced across the country. The case has not been made today.

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern]

I wonder whether the noble Lord can help on a question I asked earlier. I am obliged to him for his reference in the amendment to the Electoral Commission’s view, because it made me interested to see what it had said. I understand the second part perfectly—there is no question about why it thinks there is a degree of risk to completion—but I do not understand how shortening the transition period contributes to the accuracy of the register.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

We discussed this point earlier. The commission looked at all these factors—risk, accuracy and completeness—and it still says in its paper that,

“taking this decision before the outcome of the annual canvass means the Government has acted without reliable information”.

It looked at all the figures and decided that if Government go ahead with this, they will be making the wrong decision.