Private Low-carbon Investment: Green Finance Institute Report

Lord Kamall Excerpts

Monday 9th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right to raise new homes but part of the issue we have is that we have the oldest housing stock in Europe and a third of our housing was built before World War II. As far as her question is concerned, I can tell her that the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government has indicated that it is working on future standards. These will set new homes and buildings on a path that moves away from relying on volatile fossil fuel markets and ensures that they are fit for a net-zero future. This is likely to see a mix of low-carbon technologies used for heating, including heat pumps and heat networks. Of course, the point the noble Baroness raises is an important one.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

The Minister raised international comparisons and learning from other countries. He also said—I cannot remember his exact words—that in the United States residential market, property-linked finance has not always been successful or well taken up. Can the Minister explain some of the reasons for that and what his department has learned from that experience in the United States residential market?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, one of the issues is that home owners did not really understand what they were signing up to. In California, for instance, the state enacted a preservation and consumer protection Act, which led to an almost 90% decline in originations. More generally, the Green Deal that the coalition Government brought in shows some of the problems. First, the interest rates on offer were not sufficiently competitive; secondly, it was very complex to make an application; and, thirdly, there were lots of allegations of mis-selling. Given all that, the Government withdrew it. We need to learn a lot of lessons if we are going to make progress.

It is thought that currently owners are deterred from making a major investment in energy-efficiency improvements because they do not expect to live in the home for a sufficient length of time to get the money back through energy efficiency. The whole point about the GFI proposal is for longer-term loans that are assigned to the property, to keep interest rates low and give people a much better opportunity to make this investment.

Paying Polluters: UN Report

Lord Kamall Excerpts

Monday 22nd April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am sure it would, but we are responsible for what clauses we agree to in the UK. We always protect our right to regulate, and we seek not to take actions that are arbitrary or discriminatory against foreign companies. Ultimately, it is a question of what clauses Colombia agrees to, what criteria it uses and how it will be arbitrated, so it is a difficult question to answer.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My noble friend will be aware that when we were both in the European Parliament we used to debate the issue of ISDS, and that one of the reasons that ISDS was asked for by investors was to ensure they had confidence, particularly when there was no confidence in the local legal system. The other side of that is that big companies were perceived to get preferential treatment in being able to go to the ISDS process, rather than through the legal system. We have to look at the trade-offs, and maybe one of the things that my noble friend’s department could look at is the impact of not including ISDS agreements and how much that would affect outward or inward investment in these countries.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a powerful point; of course, it works both ways. We want to protect the interests of UK companies, which sometimes operate in very hostile, non-democratic countries with unclear or murky legal systems. By the same token, we need billions of pounds of investment into the UK—we are the top European destination for inward investment—to help us in our energy and climate change transition, so it is important as well that we demonstrate that we are liberal and open to companies investing here in the UK. These clauses help to deliver that, but they need to be structured in the right manner, transparent and liberal.

Climate Change: Phasing Out Fossil Fuels

Lord Kamall Excerpts

Wednesday 6th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Where are the Greens when you want them? It occurred to me that a few hundred people were doing all the important negotiations, while the other 30,000 were talking about them. I will let the noble Lord draw his own conclusions on that.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I am sure my noble friend the Minister will agree that we cannot just stop fossil fuels at the moment if we want to have a modern, digital economy with high-speed electric rail. How long do the Government envisage the continuous use of fossil fuels as we transition to a fully net-zero economy?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes an extremely good point. We are in a transition, so our use of fossil fuels will clearly decline. Even the Climate Change Committee has recognised that, in a net-zero scenario, we may still use about 20% of the quantities of gas that we use now—albeit abated with carbon capture, usage and storage. Fossil fuels will still have a use, but we need to treat them responsibly and to slowly phase out their use as we transition to net zero. My noble friend makes an important point that we should bear in mind.

Biomass Strategy 2023: Cross Sectoral Sustainability Framework

Lord Kamall Excerpts

Wednesday 15th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, so far my noble friend the Minister has talked a lot about wood pellets and other things, but can he enlighten us on the Government’s strategy on third and fourth generation biomass and how they intend to encourage domestic producers in those two areas?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am not sure I know what third and fourth generation biomass is. I will have to have a cup of coffee with noble Lords afterwards and we can have a chat about it.

Decarbonisation

Lord Kamall Excerpts

Thursday 13th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I am slightly disappointed by the tone of the question. We are already showing decisive leadership: we are one of the only countries in the world to already have green procurement strategies for major public procurement. This is a complicated area, as has been illustrated by the questions from the noble Lord’s own Benches. We need to make sure that we get it right and do not disadvantage British industries or drive up the cost for consumers.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, while one of the advantages of carbon border adjustment measures and other green taxes is that they tax negative externalities, hopefully to encourage better green policies, one of the downsides is obviously that that might then feed into the cost of production and that cost is then passed on to consumers. One concern for many people about green policies, even though they support them, is that when we introduce green taxes, they are often not fiscally neutral, so people end up paying more. Have the Government looked at how they can balance these challenges to make sure that, when a green tax is introduced, tax is removed elsewhere to encourage better behaviour and have a positive outcome for green policies?

Carbon Budgets: Methane Flaring

Lord Kamall Excerpts

Thursday 9th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I have checked figures with officials from the last time the noble Baroness asked me that question, and I am confident in the information that I have been given and the UK statistics. The noble Baroness shakes her head, but the figures are probably more reliable than some of her scientists.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

Can my noble friend the Minister tell us what the Government are doing to encourage more use of landfill gas for domestic and commercial energy?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a good point, and I touched on it in an earlier answer. We want to try to trap as much of this gas as possible because it is a valuable resource. As I mentioned, the green gas support scheme is a system that uses a gas levy to support anaerobic digesters across the country to take some of the waste food and organic matter that can be turned into useful gas that is fed into the gas main.