Higher Education and Research Bill

Debate between Lord Judd and Lord Dubs

Report: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 13th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, an amendment on this topic was put before the House in Committee. I have now had it reworded to take account of the Minister’s objections on that occasion. Essentially, the amendment concerns access to student support for higher education for people who are either refugees or have humanitarian status.

In fact, people with refugee status are eligible for this support and they do not have to wait three years to receive it. The anomaly concerns people who have come here under what is called humanitarian protection—mainly, but not all, Syrians who have come under the vulnerable persons scheme—and if they wish to get student support for access to higher education they have to wait three years. That is a pretty long time for people whose education may already have been harmed by what happened in their lives before they got to this country.

In every other respect, those with humanitarian protection have the same rights as those who have refugee status. Refugee status comes under the 1951 UN Convention on Refugees, whereas, as I understand it, humanitarian protection comes under domestic and EU law. But it is only in not having to wait three years if you have refugee status that there is a difference between the two. That is surely an anomaly. To make things even worse, the position in Scotland is better than it is here. I am not sure that this is a day when I should refer to Scotland in glowing terms, but certainly they do better there.

I hope the Government will look at this. I think it requires a statutory instrument to put this right. I am concerned both about people who are already here and are waiting to get access to higher education and about people who will come here in the future. In the year to September 2016, there were nearly 2,000 decisions about Syrian nationals but only three grants of humanitarian protection; virtually all the rest got refugee status. So we are talking about people who are suffering from a couple of anomalies. One is that if they come with humanitarian protection they have difficulty getting access to higher education. If they can only get refugee status, that will all be sorted out.

I am optimistic that the Government will move. I had a meeting with the Home Secretary, at her request, earlier this afternoon. I was left with a feeling of hope and optimism. I did check that it was all right for me to mention the meeting. I hope I am not excessively optimistic about this, but if the Government speak with one voice I hope to hear that voice reflected in what the Minister says in response to the amendment. I beg to move.

[Lord Judd (Lab)]

My Lords, I just want to say how much I appreciate the fact that my noble friend has moved this amendment. He referred to the anomaly. In view of what he says about his meeting with the Home Secretary, I hesitate to make this point, but I disagree with him—I say that it is unworthy rather than an anomaly. He says he hopes the Government will look at it. It seems the Government are looking at it, and I congratulate my noble friend on having got it this far.

Children and Social Work Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Judd and Lord Dubs

Monday 11th July 2016 Grand Committee

[Lord Dubs]

I am grateful to the Minister. I want to read what he has said, because he has given us quite a lot of information. I hope I am right in thinking that, although he does not like the idea of a national action plan, the Government are by and large giving effect to the elements within it. We may not call it a national action plan but, if the work is being done, then so much the better. I repeat that I want to read his speech because he has said quite a lot and I want to think about it. I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate and given unanimous support for such action. I am also grateful to Liberty and other organisations, which were very helpful to me as I prepared for this debate by providing background information and so on.

I want to say two things. First, I went to Calais some time ago and saw for myself what at least some unaccompanied child refugees are going through and have gone through. I saw that from meeting some of them. In fact, I sent the Home Office their details in case they met the criteria for the scheme under the amendment to the Immigration Bill. I have seen that for myself.

Secondly, I believe there is a lot of public support for a positive approach to unaccompanied child refugees. That is evidenced by the mass of emails I have had, almost all of which are in favour of it. My general feeling from going to local areas and speaking at meetings is that there seems to be a lot of support for it. It is quite a popular issue. If handled properly and well, we will find that these young people go on to make a positive contribution to the future of this country.

[Lord Judd]

Does my noble friend agree that all we have said in debating his amendment would be much more optimistic if we could see some hard evidence of accelerated progress in the rate at which this country accepts unaccompanied children into its programme?

[Lord Dubs]

I agree entirely with my noble friend. That is why I have said that if as many children as possible could come to Britain in time for the beginning of the school term, they would not lose another school year—many of them have lost one or two school years in the course of their journeys, being in refugee camps and so on. So I am not saying all in the garden is lovely; I was trying to be nice to the Minister.

I will make one last comment. I mentioned that I am having a meeting with the Immigration Minister tomorrow. I am not sure whether I should have said that, but I cannot see any reason why I should not have done so. I thought it was only fair to say that that was under way. Had this debate taken place after my meeting with him, I might have fed into it some of what I had learned. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.