Climate Change
Lord Judd Excerpts(4 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Judd (Lab)
My Lords, I am glad to follow that very challenging speech from the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale. It is important to have clear answers from the Government on what is being done.
I want to put on record my unqualified admiration for my noble friend Lord Browne of Ladyton, not only for this debate, but also for his consistent commitment and work in these areas. We have been talking for a long time about the challenge and responsibility to our children and grandchildren for what is happening to the world. It has become clear that it is not just a matter of our children and grandchildren. The crisis is immediate and real, affecting people now, as we debate it in this House. The urgency of action cannot be overemphasised. However, as the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford reminded us, it is not only a matter of aspiration but of being certain about the means and the detail. That is why this specific debate is so important. The detail is critical in how we are going to do this.
One of the huge challenges we face is that there must be great international co-operation. There is no other way that we can achieve any slowdown in climate change. We must look to our close neighbours, and across the world. One of the challenges is that we are demanding this action and recognising the need for it at a time when millions of people across the world have not gained access to the way of life we take for granted. There are terrific issues of social justice at the heart of this.
Let us look for a moment at some of the immediate things that are happening, to emphasise this point. Escalating migration trends across the world, unsustainable agricultural production and irresponsible trade deals are all leading to instability and dangerous conflict. Recently, the FAO warned that the total number of people going hungry in the world has been rising again for three years in succession. The recent cyclone in Mozambique vividly illustrated how the poorest can suffer. Mozambique’s emissions are negligible compared with ours, but the number of climate change-related disasters—floods, storms and extreme heat—has apparently doubled in the last 25 years. In Mali, farmers, herders and fishermen have been caught up in conflict over the reduction of the River Niger’s water levels, a situation made worse by climate change and increased demand due to population growth. Plans by the Governments of the neighbouring countries to build dams will further affect the water availability in the Niger Delta. This will affect more than 1 million people.
In Uganda, many women walk for six hours a day to fetch water. As the dry season becomes longer, they will be forced to walk for longer to collect water and firewood. With millions already forced to leave their homes by climate change, the World Bank has reminded us that 143 million people in Latin America, sub-Saharan Africa and elsewhere will be displaced in the next 30 years unless urgent action is taken. We need very convincing arguments from the Government today not just about their aspirations but about what they are doing and how they are doing it.
Localism Bill
Lord Judd Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Judd
My Lords, I am very glad to support this amendment. It is not just my great regard for the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, in his commitment to the best heritage in our society and to preserving it that makes me want to support him but the issue itself. Litter is a menace in our society. It is disfiguring our towns and villages and the countryside. If we really care about our inheritance and preserving what is best, it is no good just having exhortations and principles, which are sometimes enunciated in legislation; it is essential to have some muscle in what is being done to combat it. A few egocentric, selfish people can ruin the environment, whether it be the built environment or the rural environment. It is time that this matter was taken in hand.
I sometimes get a little frustrated in my home community. I have the pleasure of being the president of the Friends of the Lake District—which, of course, represents the CPRE in the whole of Cumbria—but I sometimes reflect in my own neighbourhood of the community how people who take tremendous pains and care with their own gardens and their own estates seem to abandon responsibility when they move outside the garden gate. We have to promote a sense of community commitment on this, followed through with legislation consisting not only of words but the means to make it happen.
It is not an accident that nations that are healthy socially and economically have a great deal of civic pride. I sometimes think that it is a good way of measuring the state of psychology of a nation. If a nation is in good heart, there is a much better chance that all these matters will be taken seriously. On the other hand, it is a two-way argument, because if we let things slip people lose interest. They lose their sense of civic pride and their sense of belonging to a community and needing to make sure that our community is strong and prosperous. It all goes together psychologically. From this standpoint, I thoroughly commend the amendment that has been brought back at Third Reading. The noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, was absolutely right to bring it back at this stage.
Lord Reay
I agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Judd, has just said and I strongly support the amendment.
Like my noble friend, I did not think very much of the Minister’s arguments for not accepting my noble friend’s amendment on Report. He argued that we could wait and see how it worked out in London when London boroughs get powers under the latest London Local Authorities Bill to issue the registered keepers of vehicles with civil penalties where enforcement officers witness littering from a vehicle. I thought that argument had some plausibility.
However, London is not the country. Litter thrown from vehicles is a particular scourge of the countryside. People driving through the countryside may feel themselves more likely to be unobserved and so more prone to commit the offence. They may well be right. Creating this new offence may work better in towns than it will in the country—we simply do not know—but I suggest that the logical thing to do would be to allow it to be tried out in different parts of the country. My noble friend’s amendment would enable this to happen by permitting local authorities who are particularly keen to do so to take action.
I hope the Government will accept the amendment. If they do not and do not say that they have now changed their minds and intend to introduce, at the earliest opportunity, a new national offence along the lines of my noble friend’s amendment, I hope my noble friend will press his amendment to a Division and I shall certainly support it.
Revised Draft Overarching National Policy Statement for Energy (EN-1)
Lord Judd Excerpts(13 years, 11 months ago)
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Lord Judd
My Lords, I declare an interest as an honorary officer of both the Friends of the Lake District, which represents CPRE in Cumbria, and the Campaign for National Parks. I was struck by what my noble friend Lord Giddens said about the urgency of climate change. I find myself completely in harmony with him, although there have been moments in Cumbria in the past few weeks when I have had to hang on to that conviction. However, it remains absolutely firm.
It seems that this statement again brings home to us the question of what we are trying to achieve. There is a danger that our preoccupations with energy and energy policy become an end in themselves, which they are not. They are about how we get a society worth having. If we are to take that seriously, it is not an appendix to our considerations; it is central to our considerations that we take responsibility for stewardship of our aesthetic, environmental and landscape inheritance, which is envied by the world. It would be easy, under the pressures that exist, to repeat the mistakes of the first Industrial Revolution. With hindsight we can see that they were mistakes, but surely we have a capacity to learn as a society from the faults of our predecessors. It was not necessary to do all that was done in the way that it was done, raping some of the richest, most important inheritance in our countryside and landscape across the nation.
There are those aesthetic considerations but there are also social challenges. How do we avoid a situation in which the weight of what is being done falls on those who are already relatively socially disadvantaged or less articulate? How do we avoid the “not in my backyard” syndrome, where those who do not have the same influence end up with a disproportionate amount of what has to be done on their doorstep?
All this has to be put together, which is why a national statement has the potential to be so important. I must confess to some disappointment about the draft that is before us. In what I have just talked about, the guidance on spatial issues is inadequate. There is room for much more detailed spelling out of criteria. Quite apart from the considerations that I have just mentioned, without more detailed criteria we are creating greater uncertainty for planners and public alike. Potentially, all parts of the countryside are up for grabs as the policy goes forward. This will lead to great public anxiety and pressure that, however much the Government want to speed up the process, will in the end find ways of delaying it. If there were more information available and more specificity on these issues, it would speed up the process in the way that the Government would like.
All this is brought out rather well by CPRE. It gives a specific example in an interesting brief that has been prepared. Underlining that it is not a theoretical concern, CPRE spells out that,
“experience of pre-application consultation for the substation required to connect the Triton Knoll offshore wind farm to the national grid highlights the risk of the current approach. The location of the substation is subject to consultation, but the fact that all proposed sites for the substation are approximately 40km from the nearest suitable 400kV overhead lines is not considered. Indeed, the required overhead lines to connect the substation are entirely outside of the consultation, and risk not being considered at all by the Infrastructure Planning Commission or a future Major Infrastructure Unit of the Planning Inspectorate”.
There is an apparent underlying assumption that there is an almost unlimited need for new energy infrastructure, but how much examination has there been of what has already been consented to? What are the implications for need and what we may have to do in the future of what has already been consented to?
This is a missed opportunity to provide for effective integration of different planning needs, to examine reasonable alternatives or to complete a convincing appraisal of sustainability. I referred earlier to what my noble friend Lord Giddens said about the urgency of climate change. I endorsed that view and said that we faced a challenge. The challenge is probably of greater significance in some ways for the history of the species than the Second World War. What strikes me in any reading of the history of the Second World War, when we faced that huge challenge in which we had to succeed, is how much work was going on at that very time into the quality of society that we wanted when the war was won and what was necessary to ensure it. Are we in danger now, in our very materialist age, of getting so preoccupied with the means that we are not facing up to the challenges that were faced up to by that great Government from 1940 to 1945?
The statements are a missed opportunity, but there are other aspects, too. The protection of areas of outstanding natural beauty, to which the Minister referred in his introduction, and national parks is, I fear, weakened in the revised drafts. One can identify this weakening by looking at the issue of the national grid and the Holford principles. Perhaps I could be forgiven for drawing in this matter again on the wisdom—there is a lot of wisdom and experience there—of CPRE.
The majority of 1,100 public responses to questions on electricity transmission policies in the first drafts of the NPSs, which was almost a third of the 3,000 responses received to the consultation on all six NPSs as a whole, called for stronger policies to control the visual impact of overhead lines. That is a pretty substantial indication of public feeling and what the public are looking for.
Disturbingly, however, the second draft of the NPS on electricity networks proposes to weaken the standing of the Holford rules. The original draft stated that decision makers should recognise that the rules should form the basis for the approach to routing new overhead lines, and applicants should be expected to follow them where possible. This latest draft says only that decision makers should bear the rules in mind. This would mean a significant weakening of the rules. It is likely to mean that there will be no requirement on either electricity companies to demonstrate that they have sought to avoid damaging impacts to important areas of landscape or on the decision maker to base its evaluation of a proposed overhead transmission line scheme on whether the Holford rules have been met. Nor is there any expectation that the mitigation measures suggested in paragraph 2.8.9 of EN-5 should be carried out for schemes where one or more of the Holford rules are not met. The effect of this could well be seriously to weaken the protection of the countryside from unnecessary and intrusive energy infrastructure.
Of course, since the NPS was drafted, significant policy changes have occurred, the most notable of which is the review announced by National Grid on 15 December of its policy on undergrounding electricity lines. This review comes in the context of a review of the costs of undergrounding led by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and KEMA. Their estimate of costs appears to be much lower than the inflated figures cited in the previous draft NPSs. In the light of these reviews and of the scale of proposed new electricity transmission infrastructure, will the Minister not agree that the Holford rules should surely continue to form the basis of planning for new overhead lines, and that the IPC should be empowered to require underground or undersea transmission in areas which are environmentally sensitive?
Before I conclude, I wish to deal, if I may, with what have been described as “minor changes” to the new drafting. After quite a number of years in politics, I am always very cautious about minor changes in drafting, because they sometimes have far more implications than are recognised. I suggest that the public have not been alerted at all well to the implications of some of the so-called minor changes and their—I shall be generous—unintended consequences, although there is always the question, which, of course, I would never associate myself with, as to whether the consequences really are unintended.
I shall give examples. Paragraphs in section 5.8 of EN-1, on the historic environment, almost exactly repeat existing protections in PPS5, except that they remove references to non-designated areas. In particular, paragraphs 5.8.12 and 5.8.17 add the word “designated” to existing language in PPS5, thereby weakening protection for non-designated heritage assets, such as the buried remains of Roman Winchester. According to English Heritage, these are of at least equivalent importance to that of many places that are designated. To give a sense of scale, less than 15 per cent of historic buildings on farms are nationally designated.
Paragraph 5.9.9 of EN-1, on visual and landscape impacts, repeats the new contribution-to-the-regional-economy criterion which first appeared in the previous draft EN-1. This is a major departure from existing protections for nationally designated areas and significantly reduces their protection.
Paragraph 5.12.8 identifies developer contributions as a material consideration for planning decisions. It is right to consider these benefits through the planning process. However, the NPS should specify that contributions must relate to the purpose of the project. For example, community benefits for energy projects should contribute to local energy saving or microgeneration.
I feel very sad. I have talked about the thinking that went on during the war about the kind of Britain that we wanted to have when it was won. Paragraph 5.10.12 of EN-1 advises applicants on ways in which to circumvent green belt protection. That is deplorable.
On Thursday, nuclear policy is to be discussed and this is therefore not the time to do so. However, there is a close interrelationship. Apart from all the other issues that I have mentioned—aesthetic, environmental and the rest—there are of course geological considerations. This was recently brought home tellingly by the earthquake in Cumbria. I raised this with the Minister in a Written Question and I am grateful for his full and helpful reply, which noble Lords can read for themselves in Hansard. In that reply, he says:
“Vibrations associated with earthquakes experienced in the UK will not significantly affect a repository at depth, but any potential for changes to the rock mass containing a GDF must be thoroughly investigated”. —[Official Report, 10/1/11; col. WA375.]
We are talking about hundreds of years ahead. I wonder whether some of our successors may look very closely at that confident prediction that vibrations associated with earthquakes experienced in the UK will not significantly affect a repository at depth. It does not sound to me like quite the careful drafting that there should be on a matter of this significance.
Lord Marland
I thank all noble Lords who have contributed and all those who have come to listen; it is much appreciated and shows the keenness with which we take this subject. As the noble Baroness said, we finished the year off with energy, we are starting it with energy, and, my goodness, we are going to be spending a lot of time on energy over the next month. We have got a lot on our plate. I hope that despite some complaining in the ranks, noble Lords here recognise that this Government do listen. I think that it is probably mistaken to get into the technicalities of a lot of the parliamentary procedure, because we have a lot of conversations outside the Chamber—we have a lot of listening; we have breakfast; we have had all sorts of things. I hope that you agree that we are listening.
The reason we are doing this is that this is a subject that transcends all Governments. It is fundamental to the country that we have a time line that goes to 2100, as I shall enunciate in a few minutes. In fact, our own pathway goes to 2050. So this is a major subject that in my view is largely outside the subject of party politics. As I think everyone will also understand, we have some serious heavy lifting to do. We have had a long time of inactivity; a long time of resting on the laurels of the wonderful wealth of oil from the North Sea which has kept this country afloat. As I said in an earlier Question today in answer to some of the noble Lord’s questions, we have got to spend more than £110 billion on our infrastructure just to get it up to scratch in the next 10 years. This is a massive project that confronts the Government today.
I turn to the specific questions which, if I may, I shall take in order. The noble Lord, Lord Giddens, as always, is excellent on this subject. He questions our striving for renewables and indicates that we want to achieve 30 per cent. In fact, as I said in our opening speech, we are committed to 50 per cent—which, even for a thicko like me, is larger than 30 per cent. That is our commitment: to have half our energy from renewables by 2050. The noble Lord is also right that there is a huge amount to do.
The noble Lord also asked what happens if CCS does not work. I am very grateful to my noble friend Lord Oxburgh, who really said it all for me. It means that I have to say very little—so I will not. If it does not work, which we fully intend it to do, we will obviously rely on nuclear. I shall come back to the CCS demo project later, if I may.
The noble Lord also asked whether we should put faith in ETSs. ETSs are what we have got as a European standard. As the noble Lord, Lord Deben, said, we should listen to the EU on these subjects. I do not entirely agree with him, but we should listen on some things, and I think that this is good because it works. We should challenge it the whole time and ensure that it is ticking the box. But there is a considerable take-up in this area.
If I could wave a magic wand, of course we would have targeted regional planning. It makes complete sense. It requires a lot of cross-government co-operation, and now that we have been in government for six to nine months, it is a subject where we should be looking to achieve, particularly if we are going to develop the offshore renewables industry. If this is going to become one of our great exporting subjects, we should have a centre of excellence, and I have suggested to our Secretary of State that that is a subject we should take on. I am grateful for those comments.
The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, asked about the CCS competition update. As I am leading the negotiations on the competition, I can tell the Committee that next week we have our second meeting with the chairmen of Shell, National Grid and Iberdrola at 8 am on 19 February. They are coming back to us with their offer regarding what they can achieve within the budget that we have set them. I have no doubt that we will not accept their offer, they will go back and then come back again, hopefully, with something that is more acceptable. The timetable that we have set ourselves is a vigorous one; I want to see heads of agreement signed early this year with a view to having a legally binding document by October, and they are committed to that timetable. It is important that this should happen, and I am grateful that my noble friend Lord Oxburgh should give such encouragement in this area from a scientific point of view.
The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, mentioned consultation with local planning authorities and where we go on that. It is a requirement of the Act that local planning has to happen first. That is the normal practice that we have had in this country and we are not changing it. For major infrastructure projects, we are abolishing the IPC because we believe that it is a quango—it is not an elected body—and ultimately it should be the Secretary of State who makes the decision on major planning projects. We have debated and talked about that on many occasions. The noble Lord also talked about the biomass timescale. That is set out in the Renewables Obligation Order 2011, which should be implemented in April this year.
I enjoyed hearing the dulcet tones of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Liverpool this morning on “Thought for the Day” as I was trying to think for the day and about how to deal with this debate; it was marvellous to hear them coming through on the subject of bankers. He can talk about any subject, can’t he? It is marvellous to have such expertise in this House and indeed in Liverpool. The right reverend Prelate wants to know what goals we have set ourselves. Pathway 2050 is one of the clearest documents that have been produced by the Government and shows the enormous challenges and the principles that we have to confront. The document is there as a target, and 2050 is a long way off.
The right reverend Prelate asked us to raise the subject of nuclear risk assessment, particularly in the flood areas. We can do no more than consult the experts, who have laid out the agreement up to the year 2100—hopefully, I will still be alive then—which is the timeframe within which the flood assessment is contained.
He also mentioned carbon counting, an issue that he has raised before, and I am grateful for that. There is a suggestion that the IPC should be responsible for carbon counting. We think that the Government’s policy in this area is perfectly adequate. Obviously it is something that we have to take seriously and, as with all these things, I will take the right reverend Prelate’s suggestions away and consider them further. With regard to his comments on China; yes, these issues have been raised with the Chinese delegation at a private meeting with the Secretary of State as well as through the Prime Minister’s Office.
There was the issue of the gap between planning applications and the IPC and when that will happen; the noble Baroness asked about that as well. As my noble friend Lord Jenkin said, we are grateful that the IPC has thoroughly co-operated in this process, and it is to be commended. In fact, I think that my noble friend went public in saying that it should co-operate with us, and I am glad that it has taken on board what he has suggested. There are two planning applications for power stations that are likely to be approved by the IPC, but anything other than that will be in this interregnum period, which looks like being a fairly smooth process.
My noble friend Lord Jenkin, eruditely as always, asked a number of questions on the issue of offshore and onshore. It is our belief, and I think it is a Conservative tenet, that market forces are best placed to determine how the two marry up together. I have referred to that, and I will do so again at a later stage.
The noble Lord also mentioned shale gas, as have a number of noble Lords. We welcome shale gas, of course; if it reduces the price of gas, that will be fantastic. There are no signs as yet that the Americans are going to supply it to the outside world, as they are intending at the moment to keep it within their own country, but anything that reduces the price of gas will be of great benefit.
I have mentioned parliamentary process, but will now mention it in more detail. I am not going to try to second-guess the parliamentary process regarding these national policy statements. It is not for me to do so; I am only a young whippersnapper in this world. But the changes that are being made through the Localism Bill will give the opportunity, within a 21-day period, for people to register their amendments, and then there will be a vote on them. The difference between now and then is that that vote will be binding, whereas before it was not worth the paper it was written on. If you add that to the general consultation that we are having through these various debates and parliamentary issues, I feel confident that all noble Lords will recognise that we are having our say. The Energy Bill is starting in this House, where it will be honed, argued over, debated and made fit for purpose. That shows the intent of the Government and the recognition of the excellent contribution that noble Lords make here.
My noble friend Lord Jenkin raised a number of other issues. I will be happy to discuss them with him afterwards or put them in writing to him. Some of the issues refer to nuclear and I will deal with them, if I may, in the nuclear debate, on which I notice his name is down to speak. He asked why we have an interim milestone of 2025. We have to have interim milestones; we have to have something that most of us can believe we will actually see, and 2025 is a perfectly reasonable figure.
I was disappointed that the noble Lord, Lord Judd, was not as complimentary as he might be, although I took some of the serious and excellent comments that he made on board. I take no persuading of his view on overhead power cables; in fact, when I was a parliamentary candidate I was asked what was the one Private Member’s Bill that I would introduce and I said the removal of overhead cables, so he is preaching to the converted. Of course the CPRE is an excellent organisation, and we listen to it with great intent—well, I do, anyway.
I really think that the noble Lord has got the wrong end of the stick on the Holford rules. I want to read something that I read earlier, paragraph 2.8.5 in EN-5:
“Guidelines for the routeing of new overhead lines, the Holford Rules, were originally set out in 1959 by Lord Holford, intended as a common sense approach to the routeing of new overhead lines. These guidelines were reviewed and updated by the industry in the 1990s, and the IPC should bear them and any updates in mind as they examine applications for overhead lines”.
It goes on to list what the Holford rules state—on pages 12 and 13, for those who have the statement—and then continues:
“In considering whether all or part of proposed electricity lines should be placed underground to obtain the benefits of reductions in landscape and/or visual impacts, the IPC will need to weigh the reductions in visual intrusion against the impacts (economic, environmental and social) and technical challenges of undergrounding”.
That seems to be a common-sense approach.
Lord Judd
I am grateful to the Minister for giving way, and it is wonderful to have his emotional sympathy for the general drift of my commitment, but can he spell out what he understands by the injunction to “bear in mind”, in terms of actually achieving a situation in which we can be confident that these things will prevail?
Lord Marland
I look to the opening words, which state that the Holford rules were,
“intended as a common sense approach”.
In other words, it was a very 1959, laissez-faire rule. What we are doing is hardening the rules. We are not giving anything away on them. We have merely said that the Holford rules should apply, but if there are implications in terms of whether it is not geologically feasible to put lines underground, the rules should be borne in mind for the same reason as the noble Lord, Lord Deben, said—the cost. We cannot impose unrealistic costs just because we are completely determined, as the noble Lord, Lord Judd, and I are, to place those lines underground. However, I assure him that he has my greatest support and sympathy, and I have taken on board what he said. I shall fight the good fight, as he will, on these issues.
I am also grateful for the noble Lord’s point that we have to consider the future of our society. That is fundamental, and it is something that your Lordships’ House takes more seriously than most, because we take a long-term view of these things. What the noble Lord said was very important.
My noble friend Lord Reay is well known for his views on onshore wind. I cannot comment on whether I share them or not, because onshore wind is a government policy. However, I am always interested in his views. He asked some good questions. Onshore wind is part of a mixed portfolio required under our 2050 pathway if we are to supply this country with twice the supply that it needs today. Onshore wind supplies not a significant amount but a relevant amount. We know where the significant amounts of supply will come from, and we talked about them earlier. We want to be very careful about getting sidetracked into the smaller aspects of supply and concentrate our firepower as a Government on the major things, such as new nuclear, CCS and converting our waste into something much more effective.
Of course, onshore wind has tremendous support in certain parts of the country, particularly in Scotland and Wales, where local communities have come together and determined that there are benefits. Equally, a huge number of communities in England do not see the financial benefits to them. Luckily, we have rigorous planning procedures which ensure that fair play is maintained.
The noble Lord asked what the effects are on the CCR requirement and what extra costs there are on the companies for fulfilling it. There are no delays at the moment because everyone who applies for CCS is just buying the land next to them. There have been no problems with approval on that. The only extra cost is that of purchasing the land. I have mentioned two or three good points about CCS and the Holford rules, with which I hope the noble Lord is satisfied.
As far as the Met Office is concerned, the Government should review several things. First, should we be the owners of the Met Office? There are compelling reasons for the Government not owning an institution, and I am on the PEX-A committee which is reviewing whether the Met Office and its advice should be owned by the Government. However, people tell me that there is only one nation in the world that does not own its own meteorological office and that is Malta. That would be an interesting combination.
I am disappointed that the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, did not applaud me to the rooftops for the changes that we have made on LNG and siting. We have made great strides and have listened carefully to what he has said, as I said in my opening speech. The noble Lord, who is an expert in this field, notes that this is a complicated area. There is no single legislative body and there are many different licensing conditions. Clearly, the Government are absolutely adamant that safety at all standards must be maintained. We have the best health and safety standards in the world. On the pipelines, he raises the very good point that standards should be maintained and constantly reviewed. Lessons should be learnt from the BP incident in the Gulf of Mexico. We are reappraising standards rigorously. Perhaps the noble Lord is going to applaud me to the rooftops.