Domestic Abuse Bill

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Baroness Burt of Solihull

Monday 15th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I start by thanking the noble Baronesses, Lady Meacher and Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, for their support of this amendment. Time is getting on and we have a lot to go through tonight, so I promise I will not detain the House by repeating the arguments I used in Committee.

I am very encouraged by the letter I received from Minister Scully outlining all the steps that the Government have taken and are taking to make employers aware of what they can do to support victims and signpost them towards help. I also commend the Government on their recent review, Workplace Support for Victims of Domestic Abuse. As we know, the workplace is one of the few places where the victim is usually separate from the abuser. If the workplace culture is positive and the employer knows how to help by signposting the victim, this can make all the difference. Sadly, the review outlined a mostly different picture: a lack of awareness of the warning signs of abuse; stigma around talking about it; and a lack of knowledge of what to do to help.

In his letter to me, Minister Scully said:

“We will now work together with employers, representatives of victims and trade unions to continue to build awareness and understanding of domestic abuse and drive good practice across the board.”


The Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development and the Equalities and Human Rights Commission have produced an oven-ready code of practice. It is only one small step to put implementation into government guidelines on duty of care. What will these guidelines consist of? Will they be incorporated into the other duties of care required of employers? If not, what will it look like?

Regrettably, this knowledge will not filter down to employers by osmosis. We need one small step, such as a government extension of the duty of care to extend to larger organisations incorporating a policy on employee domestic abuse victims into their existing employee policies. That in itself would send a powerful signal not just to victims but to abusers that this behaviour is not okay and that help is at hand. Now, when employees are coming back to work, is an ideal time to welcome them with a policy that confirms their self-worth and the fact that they are regarded and cared for.

The Government have made great strides already. The establishment of a code or duty is just half a step more. The result is a big benefit for all concerned: employees who feel able to bring their whole selves to work; other employees who also feel valued and supported; and, not least, employers, who reap the rewards in terms of enhanced loyalty and productivity. It is a win-win, and the only cost to the employer is a little thought. I beg to move.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I am very glad to speak in this debate. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, for moving the amendment. I was very pleased that the Government confirmed in Committee that domestic abuse protection orders would cover the workplace as well as the home. This is a very important step in ensuring that victims remain protected at work, and it is a first step to ensuring that domestic abuse is seen as a workplace and trade union issue. Home and work cannot be neatly separated, and this has never been truer than during the Covid pandemic.

I declare my interest as a member of UNISON, and I was particularly pleased that its campaign was so successful. I warmly congratulate its new general secretary, Christina McAnea.

There is no room for complacency, as the noble Baroness said. I am certainly convinced of the need to ensure that victims of domestic abuse are protected at work and that their employers do everything they can to support them. I have already said that home and work issues cannot always be neatly separated. Abusive and violent behaviour does not always take place in the home; it can frequently cross into the workplace, where victims experience stalking, threats, harassment and even worse. Equally, work can be a lifeline to independence and survival for victims of domestic abuse, as they are ordinarily able to leave their homes to go elsewhere and can maintain a level of income independent from the perpetrator.

All victims should feel safe in the knowledge that they can take action to put their lives back on track with their employment secure, and that they will be protected while they are at work. The Government have a responsibility to ensure that victims of domestic abuse are protected at work and that their employers do everything they can to support them.

We know from a TUC survey from 2015 that one in 10 of those who experienced domestic violence reported that the violence continued in the workplace. Over 90% of respondents to the survey who had experienced domestic violence reported that it had caused conflict and tension with co-workers, and a quarter of respondents reported that their co-workers were harmed or threatened.

This is where discussion about the code of practice comes in. The requirement that the code should be

“designed to ensure that persons affected by domestic abuse who are workers receive appropriate care and support”

is certainly an interesting suggestion. From listening to the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, I can certainly see the attractions of a code of practice. As she said, she has had discussions with relevant organisations on it.

However, I put to the noble Baroness the risk that, in any criminal or civil proceedings, compliance with the code by an employer may become the issue, rather than the domestic abuse carried out by a perpetrator. In the experience of UNISON, with which I have discussed the amendment, the introduction of a policy would seem to be much more effective in encouraging victims to volunteer that they are affected by domestic abuse, enabling referral to appropriate support agencies. In other words, while employers must ensure that they are meeting their duty of care, this might be seen as a blunt instrument. But I recognise that it is being moved with the best of intents and, in the work that goes forward, I am sure that it will be important to consider a code alongside the other measures that are clearly important to take.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Baroness Burt of Solihull

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 27th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I cannot repeat my noble friend Lord Rooker’s admirable brevity, but I welcome this group of amendments. I particularly support Amendment 24, which seeks to add a list of things that the commissioner may do in pursuance of a general duty.

The noble Baroness is right that provisions around monitoring and assessing perpetrator behaviour are very important. Clause 7(2) already sets out:

“The things that the Commissioner may do in pursuance of the general duty under subsection (1) include … assessing, monitoring, and publishing information about, the provision of services to people affected by domestic abuse … making recommendations to any public authority about the exercise of its functions … undertaking or supporting … the carrying out of research … providing information, education or training … taking other steps to increase public awareness of domestic abuse … consulting public authorities”


and others; and co-operate, or work jointly with, public authorities. Reading the list, it does not seem to include monitoring and assessing perpetrator behaviour. As the noble Baronesses, Lady Hamwee and Lady Burt, have illustrated, this seems to be a gap, particularly as the Bill specifies in Clause 7(1):

“The Commissioner must encourage good practice in … the prevention, detection … and prosecution of offences involving domestic abuse.”


I would have thought that monitoring and assessing perpetrator behaviours would be an important part of that responsibility.

This is an important but neglected issue. A piece for Community Care by Ruth Hardy in 2017 that analysed serious case reviews found that domestic abuse was a feature of more than half the reviews carried out between 2011 and 2014, but that while much practice and research is focused on working with victims and survivors of domestic abuse, the same cannot be said of perpetrators. A report some years ago by inspectorates, including Ofsted, found that social services and partner agencies are not focusing enough on perpetrators. Last April, an article by Amanda L Robinson and Anna Clancy for the British Society of Criminology identified that a focus on developing and implementing effective interventions for victims had dominated the policy and practice agenda for nearly two decades. They commented that, in contrast, there has been relatively less success in establishing effective interventions for perpetrators. A systematic review of European evidence concluded:

“We do not yet know what works best, for whom, and under what circumstances.”


I have no doubt that the Minister will be able to say that legislation covers this, but it is important that we make the point that it would have been helpful to have been more explicit that perpetrator behaviour is a relevant part of the responsibilities of the commissioner.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, this short group is another attempt by the Lib Dem team to ensure that the domestic abuse commissioner has all the powers that she needs. Amendment 24 addresses the need for the commissioner to be able to research and publish information about perpetrators. I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, for his supportive comments on this. We believe that unless we understand perpetrator behaviour, we will never be able to tackle it effectively and make effective interventions. Amendment 26 would widen the recommendations the commissioner can make to voluntary organisations and others as well as to public authorities. Again, we are attempting to widen the remit and those powers. These are small amendments but we hope they are helpful in spelling out the extent of the remit the commissioner should have.

West Midlands Combined Authority Order 2016

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Baroness Burt of Solihull

Monday 6th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I am grateful for the opportunity to welcome this order today, notwithstanding and quite accepting the comments made by the noble Lord who is the spokesperson for Labour.

The order brings together the West Midlands. It lets local government think beyond its normal boundaries, and strategically, for our region. We need to look at our competitiveness—digital, manufacturing and in other areas. We need a strategy for our skills, we need proper broadband, and transport links are very overcrowded and need to be much better. We are a manufacturing region: 38% of our GVA is in manufacturing—that includes the supply chain—and we have problems.

I am very concerned about the difference in the relative wealth of the various local authorities. Birmingham is, for want of a better expression, broke. Fortunately, other local authorities are not in such a bad position. However, I want to ask about the LEPs. There is no formal mechanism for them to consult the business community. I am always thinking about local authorities but a key player in this will definitely be business, which will have a pivotal role.

The CBI has no regional representation in the West Midlands and the chambers are fragmented. We need a West Midlands chamber of commerce. We are criticised for our lack of productivity, which the West Midlands Combined Authority shadow board says is low. It is if you take GVA over the total population, at £20,137 per head, but if you take GVA over those in work it goes up to £45,000, so we do not want to be criticised purely because we have an unemployment issue in the area. We could be a lot more productive if we had better broadband, better transport and a better skills base.

I have a few questions for the Minister. I am glad that I am not the only one who is confused about what the voting rights will be for non-constituency members and what role those members will play. On scrutiny, what part will minor parties play? Will they have a voice as well? There are a lot of smaller parties in the West Midlands. Today I have learned that the Secretary of State, the right honourable Sajid Javid, is the official sponsor of the Midlands engine. Perhaps the Minister will comment on whether she has seen any evidence of the Midlands engine in the Midlands.

Finally, Sajid Javid is apparently responsible for bringing together a politically neutral coalition of West Midlands MPs. How is he getting on?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her careful introduction to this order and I very much welcome the work that has been done by the local authorities concerned to get to this stage.

It has not been at all easy. The noble Baroness will know that there is a history of difficult relationships between local authorities in the West Midlands. First, we should acknowledge the work that has been done by the major constituent local authorities to come together and reach an agreement. That is a very positive start. Secondly, I agree with the noble Baroness and my noble friend Lord Kennedy about the huge potential of the West Midlands. It has had its problems but there is no doubt that there are some very promising signs with manufacturing development and the role played by universities.

We are also starting to see a return of media to the West Midlands, which, grievously, we had lost over a 20-year period. I do not know what discussions the Minister has with her colleagues in the DCMS but any nudge that she can give towards ensuring that Channel 4 does indeed move to Birmingham will be very much appreciated. I hope that she will ignore a typical metro article in the Independent today arguing that it would be quite impossible for Channel 4 to operate outside the centre of London. I am sure that the noble Baroness agrees with me on that.

I want to raise one or two issues. First, my noble friend mentioned the National Audit Office report, which made a very important critique of some of the issues surrounding the development of these combined authorities. I assume that the Government will respond in due course but I would be very interested in the Minister’s views on what the NAO said. Without quoting extensively from the report, the NAO thinks that there is quite a lot of confusion about what the core purpose is of these devolution deals, who is going to be held responsible and how that accountability is to be discharged.