Brexit: Case for a Second Referendum

Lord Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hoyle (Lab)]

I have to say to my noble friend—and we are very good friends—that I wonder where she was when the referendum was being discussed. The dangers were outlined; it was doom and gloom all the time. People were warned about the dire consequences of voting to leave, so that was certainly put to the people. We must never underestimate the people once they have spoken, even though we may not like it. I have not liked many of the decisions that they have made. The noble Lord, Lord Robathan, is laughing but he knows that from our exchanges in the past. We must accept and go along with what the people say. There may be a case for a later discussion, but we cannot now say that we must have another referendum.

It is argued that the decision was made by only a small majority, but if the decision had gone the other way, would that have been accepted? As has been said, all the arguments put forward were about the present position. If you had another referendum now and did not get the result you wanted, would you want another one?

We have just had a very lengthy debate on Europe and our position in it. I do not want to go over what was said but we are certainly a very important market for the EU. It has a £58.8 billion trade surplus with us. The German car industry exports 20% of its cars here. I will not mention the French wine industry, although I enjoy a glass of its wine. I repeat: our market is very important to the EU.

We have to recognise that the people have spoken. We are in a democracy, so let us get on with it. I agree with those who have said that the negotiations should begin immediately. We cannot wait for two years and the EU does not want that either. It is saying, “You have spoken. Let’s start the discussions and the sooner the better”. Certainly, we must not underestimate the British people or democracy. I want to say here and now that they made their views very clear.

Commonwealth Countries and Overseas Territories: European Union

Lord Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 14th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Hoyle (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords—

Saudi Arabia: Executions

Lord Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 13th January 2016 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Hoyle]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the Government of Saudi Arabia about their reported plans to execute 50 people.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, the British Government are firmly opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances and in every country. We are deeply concerned about the execution of 47 people on 2 January. We have expressed these concerns to the Saudi authorities. The British Government do not shy away from raising legitimate human rights concerns and we believe that we would be more successful discussing cases privately with Saudi Arabia than criticising it publicly.

[Lord Hoyle (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply and I am pleased that she has taken a stronger attitude in relation to the plans, because there appeared to be a craven silence in relation to them, particularly as this is the largest number since 1980. What view does she take of the opinions that have been expressed that these are intended to derail the Syrian peace process talks taking place in Vienna?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, throughout my time at the Foreign Office, I have made it clear on every possible occasion the strength of feeling that the Government have about the death penalty. It is wrong in principle and wrong in practice. Clearly, the noble Lord and I agree on that. There is a concern that any changes in behaviour by any country in the region may have a destabilising effect on the important discussions to which the noble Lord rightly alluded. We understand from both Iran and Saudi Arabia that they expect to continue to support the negotiations on Syria.

Gibraltar

Lord Hoyle Excerpts

Monday 10th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hoyle (Lab)]

I am so pleased that the noble and learned Baroness has raised the issue of Gibraltar because I am appalled at the behaviour of Spain in relation to it. I declare an interest: I have been to Gibraltar many times; I am a friend of Gibraltar; and I have the freedom of Gibraltar. I am always puzzled as to why our Government do not take a firmer attitude. I want to outline two or three things that are troubling Gibraltar.

One has been referred to by the noble and learned Baroness in relation to the EU air passenger rights. The Spanish Government unilaterally abandoned the trilateral forum for dialogue and are seeking to exclude Gibraltar airport from the application of European law. It is absolutely essential that any EU citizen going to Gibraltar has the same rights as when they use airports anywhere else within Europe. Why should Gibraltar be different? I emphasise what has been asked of the Minister because it is going to be debated by the European Council in June: what are we doing to lobby other people in Europe before that meeting to ensure that they support us in making sure that they remove the exclusion of Gibraltar? That is essential. Are we taking steps? I would be pleased to hear from the Minister when she replies on that matter.

The second matter that I want to talk about affects Gibraltar and us: it is the world’s leading remote gambling jurisdiction. There are 26 licence orders in Gibraltar and I wish to emphasise the effect that they have on the economy. They provide 3,000 jobs and account for 25% of the economy. We are not discussing, and I do not want to go into any detail about, the Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Bill. Nevertheless, it could have a disastrous effect upon Gibraltar. It also would not be good for this country as regards remote gambling because many more licences would be applied for. Many people in this country would be affected, and Gibraltar would not be strengthened but weakened. While it could cause us problems here, it would be an absolute disaster for Gibraltar.

I return to another matter that has been raised: the problem at the borders. Delays of up to an hour continue, and longer delays are common, and they have an effect on the economy of Gibraltar. It also affects the thousands of Spanish workers who cross over to and work in Gibraltar. They experience these difficulties daily because of the attitude. What is going to be done about it? Anyone who has been to Gibraltar will know about the number of British citizens residing in Spain who go over the border to shop in Gibraltar—the noble and learned Baroness remarked on that. They come to the supermarkets there but are being prevented from doing so. What are we doing in relation to that?

I move on to the other matter that has been raised about the incursions into British territorial waters. I shall read to noble Lords a Written Question to which I received a reply about the important naval exercise. I asked Her Majesty’s Government,

“what response they have received from the government of Spain about the disruption of the Royal Navy parachute exercise in British territorial waters off Gibraltar”,

on 18 February. The Answer I received from the Minister who is replying tonight was:

“The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs … raised his concerns about illegal incursions”—

I emphasise, “illegal incursions”—

“by Spanish State vessels into British Gibraltar Territorial Waters with the Spanish Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs … on 20 February. We continue to protest formally all illegal incursions”.—[Official Report, 6/3/14; col. WA 331.]

Those concerns were raised on 20 February. These incursions are still occurring. What are we doing about them? As has been said, the UK and Spain are both allies but, sooner or later, there will be an incident in which lives will be lost. I emphasise that.

My time is up but I ask the Minister to say whether, in the light of the reply to my Written Question, what we are doing about these incursions because they are still going on. Surely we have a right to protect not only our interests but the interests of Gibraltar and Gibraltarians who want to remain British.

Gibraltar

Lord Hoyle Excerpts

Monday 20th January 2014 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Hoyle]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what response they have received from the Government of Spain about incursions by Spanish vessels into Gibraltar’s territorial waters and delays at the frontier.

[The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con)]

My Lords, we have raised our concerns about incursions with the Spanish Government. Their response is that the waters were not ceded to the UK in the Treaty of Utrecht. We remain confident that the waters are British, as sovereignty flows from land. We have also raised concerns about the additional border checks. Spain maintains that the checks are necessary to prevent smuggling, while HMG considers them to be disproportionate, politically motivated and therefore unlawful under EU law.

[Lord Hoyle (Lab)]

First, I must declare an interest as a freeman of Gibraltar, a title of which I am very proud. When did we last see the Spanish ambassador, what assurances did we get—from the Minister’s reply, it sounds as though they were negative—and, as we are members of the European Union, can we ask it for help and assistance in requesting Spain to stop the incursion into British territorial waters and to stop the unnecessary hold-ups at the frontier?

[Baroness Warsi]

In terms of contact, the Spanish ambassador was summoned back in August, the Minister for Europe spoke to the Spanish Minister for Europe, the Foreign Secretary spoke to the Spanish Foreign Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister spoke to the Spanish Deputy Prime Minister. In September, the Prime Minister spoke to the Spanish Prime Minister at the G20 summit. In November, the Spanish ambassador was resummoned to the FCO. The Prime Minister also spoke to President Barroso in the margins of the December European Council.

Gibraltar

Lord Hoyle Excerpts

Monday 16th July 2012 Lords Chamber

Tabled By

[Lord Hoyle]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what has been their response to incursions into the British sovereign waters off Gibraltar by the Spanish Guardia Civil.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Hoyle, and with his permission, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Order Paper.

Bahrain

Lord Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2011 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Hoyle]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to Bahrain regarding a fair retrial in the civilian courts for the 20 doctors and nurses detained in relation to the protests there.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, on hearing of the sentences imposed on the medical and nursing professionals by a Bahraini special tribunal on 29 September 2010, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary led the international criticism by issuing a statement of the UK’s deep concern at the disproportionate sentences. He called on the Bahraini judicial authorities to follow due process carefully and transparently. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Alistair Burt, also called the Bahraini ambassador in London the next day to reiterate our concern, and the UK’s national security adviser also raised the case of the medical staff during his recent visit to Bahrain.

[Lord Hoyle]

I thank the Minister for that reply. I hope he will agree that when we condemn the violation of human rights, we should do so with all countries that do that. Will he do his best to use this country’s influence with Bahrain to ensure that when the trial of these people comes about it is fair and transparent and is witnessed by observers from different countries?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, we will certainly do that. One can draw some cautious optimism from the fact that the retrials are by civilian courts. The military courts have been closed and certain detainees have been released—not in this case, of course. A substantial commission report on human rights is about to be published next week that will cover all aspects of the kinds of concerns that we have and the noble Lord rightly has about what has been going on in Bahrain.

Libya

Lord Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 13th September 2011 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Hoyle]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the political views of the coalition in Libya and their policies for running the country.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, the National Transitional Council has made a sincere commitment to a political settlement where human rights, fundamental freedoms and the rule of law are respected. We welcome its constitutional declaration which sets out a programme for conducting Libya’s political transition in a spirit of unity, moderation and reconciliation. We look forward to the formation of an interim Government, which is expected in the coming days. The United Nations will co-ordinate international community support for this transition and the UK Government will remain at the forefront of these efforts.

[Lord Hoyle]

I thank the Minister for that considered reply. Could I press him a little further about the people who are forming the Libyan Government? Many of them were members of the terrorist organisation, the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group. Although they have renounced violence, can we be sure that that they will not go back to their old ways?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The leaders—the chairman of the council, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, and the prime minister, Mr Mahmoud Jibril—are strong and remarkable people. Mr Jibril served under Colonel Gaddafi and was part of that regime, but he moved over. There are others who have had associations with other groups in the past. There is one prominent case, which I suspect the noble Lord has in mind, of someone who appears to have been involved in terrorist activities—that was certainly the case, so one can never be totally sure. However, there are wise heads leading the NTC and we believe that with careful pressures and support from outside we can proceed in a way which avoids the intrusion of extremism, which in Tripoli yesterday morning the prime minister was warning that he did not want to see in the new Government.

Gibraltar

Lord Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 14th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

First, I note, along with your Lordships, that once again your Lordships’ House proves that it has massive expertise in every subject. We keep the naval response constantly under review. We will ensure that we have the means for an appropriate response, balanced with a diplomatic assessment of the situation, and we will make sure that that continues. There will be no question but that these incursions—if they have to continue, and I hope that they do not—will be responded to with the utmost speed both by the Royal Navy and by diplomatic means.

[Lord Hoyle]

Did we receive an apology, and what assurances did we get from Spain that this would not occur again? The noble Lord says that the Royal Navy will be ready but will it be ready immediately? The last time it was launched, the vessel in question had departed.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am not quite sure that that last point is correct. I think that the vessel was seen off. It was warned and departed as the warning came—it all happened simultaneously. As to a response from Madrid, I do not think that there has been an apology or a reassurance that it will not happen again. However, there has certainly been a recognition that this was an unfortunate incident which they do not want to see recur. I would not put it higher than that. We have not got there yet.