Government of France: Meetings

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Tuesday 12th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what principal issues they intend to raise in their forthcoming meetings with President Hollande and members of the new Government of France.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, France is an important partner for the United Kingdom and our dialogue is wide-ranging. The Government look forward to continuing their close co-operation with new French Government, including on foreign and defence policy, energy and immigration. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister had a warm first meeting with President Hollande in Washington. He has invited him to visit London after the French parliamentary elections this month. Other Ministers across government have also met or contacted their new counterparts.

[Lord Dykes]

I thank my noble friend for that Answer. With the French Government securing ever greater support for their EU-wide growth agenda, particularly now that they are armed with decisive strength in the French Parliament, including when next Sunday’s results are taken into account, does he agree that it would be very fitting for HMG to join that European-wide effort, because there is now an increasingly urgent need to offset the threat of an international slump?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, we all have to join in the efforts to bring about recovery and end recession in our region and globally. These are matters that we discuss closely with the French. We agree with some of the ideas behind the various projects which Monsieur Hollande has put forward—what has been called the “Hollande vision”—but disagree with others. We have a perfectly amicable difference of view on, for instance, a financial transaction tax, which we believe would be damaging and would, according to the European Commission’s own analysis, take €200 billion out of the European economy. However, on other ideas of Monsieur Hollande—project bonds for infrastructure expansion, for instance—we concur. We reject the idea that there are two alternative strategies that are exclusive: austerity or growth. The answer is that sound budgetary discipline and growth all go together in a sensible and balanced programme.

Eurozone

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Wednesday 16th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am afraid that I have absolutely no idea about a statement of that kind. I do not know where the noble Lord read it. Perhaps I may find it later. If it was said by the Prime Minister, I am sure that it is true but I do not think that it was.

[Lord Dykes]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for once again showing HMG’s resolute determination to help the eurozone leaders in solving this crisis and for ignoring the flimflam from the anti-Europeans. But, without giving instructions of course, would he give some friendly advice to the British press to restrain and reduce their hysteria on this subject of the eurozone crisis at a time when the United States 16 trillion dollar irreducible debt system, which is facing national default yet again, is totally ignored by the British newspapers?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

It is not for me to advise the media on their priorities but clearly the eurozone crisis could have considerable impact on all economies in the region and certainly on the United Kingdom. We are right to be concerned about it and the media are right to examine it and to bring home—through their experts and commentators, in addition to the expertise already in this House—that if there are further difficulties and the problems in the eurozone are not resolved, it will certainly hurt the British economy as well. That is inevitable.

Death Penalty

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I would not myself put it in the way that the noble Lord has. The United States is one of our priority countries, and we regularly make our views known to the US authorities bilaterally through the European Union and in any other way that we can. We are particularly concerned about individual cases of British nationals facing the death penalty in the USA. It is undeniably a problem, but I do not think that it weakens the argumentation that can be put forward in other countries—where, here and there, there are some definite signs of progress. I remind the noble Lord that, for instance, in 2009 Barbados announced its intention to abolish the death penalty. There is a UN General Assembly resolution coming up on this whole area which we are strongly supporting.

[Lord Dykes]

Further to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, does my noble friend agree that the United States is a particular problem because there are well over 4,000 people on death row, many of whom have been there for many years? That must amount to cruel and inhuman punishment. Some of those are mentally retarded people. Will the Government make real efforts to persuade the United States and the federal government to drop capital punishment?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We will certainly continue to do so.

EU: Disintegration

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Thursday 26th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes]

My Lords, if an aspiring Tory candidate for the other place decides to deny that he is Europhobic to the local party, he will not be selected. That means, logically, that UKIP is not fit for purpose, so will it not disintegrate much quicker than the eurozone recovers from its own crisis?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am not sure that I quite get the ins and outs of all that. Generally, I hope my noble friend agrees with me that Europe is our neighbourhood but the world is our market, that we must have a balanced and sensible approach in developing good relations with a European Union which obviously requires reforming and modernising to meet the 21st century, and that we must also adjust our own nation to meet this new international landscape.

Eurozone Agreement

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Tuesday 10th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they will next meet other European Union member state Governments to discuss the December 2011 Eurozone agreement.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, two meetings of the ad hoc working group on the fiscal stability union, in which the UK is participating, have been held so far. The first was on 20 December and discussed general views on the draft international agreement on a reinforced economic union and the practical arrangements for the preparatory work. The second meeting, on 6 January this year, discussed the proposed provisions in the draft agreement, particularly those relating to consistency and relationships with the law of the Union and fiscal issues. The ad hoc working group plans to hold a minimum of a further meeting a week.

[Lord Dykes]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. As the Liberal European leaders gave such good advice over the weekend, what is the coalition response to the points that they made, including the vital point about whether there should now be a full EU treaty?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The views expressed by the group to which my noble friend has referred were of course very interesting and coincided broadly with what we all accept: if, as the Deputy Prime Minister rightly said, the UK’s interests are properly and fully safeguarded, then eventually this could emerge as a European treaty. However, at the moment that is not the position, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister had to make clear in the December Council, where it was plain that our interests were not safeguarded. Until that matter is resolved, it is difficult to see how this can become a full European treaty.

Arab Partnership Initiative

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Thursday 15th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We will certainly try. It is not all that easy to pin down and specify the outcomes as time goes by. I know that the noble Lord will be the first to appreciate that these developments, particularly in the field of democracy, are owned by the countries themselves. We are not in a position to score specific targets and to tell them to get to this point or that point. That is not at all the language in which we conduct our affairs. Our respect is for these countries and for their efforts to struggle forward to better and more settled democratic structures. It will not be easy for any of them, but we will give our support and try to score the outcomes and results that we want.

[Lord Dykes]

Does the Minister accept that the Palestinians also deserve their Arab spring after 43 years? Will he and the Government work very hard to persuade the United States Government not to exercise a veto—well over the 30th since 1967—stopping Israel behaving according to international law?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

As we discussed in this House earlier in the week, it would be desirable to avoid any confrontation and any vetoing. It would also be desirable for as many nations of the world as possible to carry forward their recognition of Palestine, and to move to nationhood and establish some negotiation with Israel which will point them in that direction.

Palestine: UN General Assembly

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Tuesday 13th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am grateful to the noble Lord and, of course, I share and we must all share in the condolences which he touches upon. As to his earlier questions and propositions, I agree with most of them. However, the question hangs in the air, and I hope it will be resolved, as to whether action at the United Nations will enable that move to statehood to take place. That is what we all want and that is what must proceed. We hope that action at the UN will open up a better pathway to negotiation, but if it was the opposite and it led to confrontation—if more business there closed down negotiation—then it clearly would not be such a good thing. We just have to wait and see what the texts are, how the matter is going to be approached—whether through the General Assembly or the UN Security Council—and then we will take our decision.

[Lord Dykes]

My Lords—

[The Lord Bishop of Exeter]

My Lords, while the recognition of statehood might alter the negotiating parameters and the Minister has affirmed the importance of negotiations towards achieving a final settlement, will he also affirm the important role in any ongoing negotiations of the wider Palestinian diaspora, including those who have the recognised status of refugees? Will he say what the Government are doing to ensure that the rights of such refugees are not compromised or taken away by any recognition of statehood, including their legitimate right to be heard in international fora such as the UN?

EU: Polish Presidency

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Thursday 30th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what principal subjects they intend to discuss with the government of Poland when they next meet, in view of the start of the Polish European Union Presidency from 1 July.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, Her Majesty’s Government engage with the Polish Government at all levels. These meetings are opportunities to discuss a range of issues and occur at both ministerial and official levels. Prior to, and during, the Polish presidency, the Poles have outlined their priorities as being divided into three general themes: European integration as the source of growth; a secure Europe in terms of food, energy and defence; and Europe benefiting from openness.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Dykes]

I thank my noble friend for that Answer. In view of the Energy Secretary’s disappointment about the Polish Government’s refusal last Tuesday to accept the 20 per cent target for emissions by 2020, will my noble friend confirm that Poland is willing to accept a compromise solution to this unexpected problem during its presidency period?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We shall have to see how this works out. Obviously, there are a lot of elements in this debate as we move forward to a new energy mix and the energy transition throughout Europe. Poland will play a leading part in that, whether or not it accepts the immediate renewables targets, because it is seeking to change its own economy away from a heavy coal base and a reliance on Russian gas to a more modern mixture of energy developments. That will include renewables and, possibly, the major development of shale gas and other unconventional gas sources.

Europe Day

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Tuesday 28th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord speaks of silly gestures, but the idea that flying flags is any indication of the policy of commitment, in our case to the European Union, is frankly absurd. If we flew the flag for every relationship with every multilateral organisation, we would be for ever hoisting flags and taking them down again. There is frankly no relationship between our activist and forward position on the European Union—we are playing a major part, as demonstrated by the Prime Minister over the weekend—and the actual flying of flags, which is not the intention of 10 Downing Street.

[Lord Dykes]

I thank my noble friend the Minister for his renewed commitment to Europe, which he has just expressed. Is it not a pity that we do not fly the European flag a little bit more? The only European flags within the vicinity of this place and Whitehall are on the Slovenian embassy and the former headquarters of the Conservative Party, which is now the European Commission and the European Parliament. That historical irony could now be built on if the Government were bold enough to fly the European flag alongside the union flag, which is the routine of all other member states.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Some departments and some public institutions do fly the flag if they wish to do so. I repeat to my noble friend that the flying of flags is not connected with the very strong policy we have in relation to the European Union, in which we are paying a very active part and dare I say a slightly more successful part in some areas than was the case under the previous Government.

European Union Bill

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Thursday 23rd June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We have debated this at length. I have enjoyed some of the noble Lord’s interventions—not all of them—and this one is based on a total fallacy and misunderstanding of the Bill which I have tried to disabuse him of. Clearly I have not succeeded. There is no question of having referenda on 56 different items. As we have debated at enormous length, the items included in Schedule 1 and Clause 6 all relate to a handful of very big, so-called red line issues which the people of this country do not want to be dealt with other than through popular consultation. That is the reality. The 56 story is a wonderful myth. It should be utterly dismissed and I hope that we do not hear anything more about it.

Perhaps I may return to the amendment. Clause 18 would not alter the rights and obligations of the UK by virtue of our membership with the European Union.

[Lord Dykes]

I apologise for intervening and shall be very brief. First, I genuinely thank my noble friends Lord Howell and Lord Wallace for being helpful, whenever they could be, in responding to many of the points made at previous stages. However, accepting that a transfer of powers of sovereignty can be used as a technical description of our membership of the European Union, is it not better psychologically for the public to have an expression which represents the reality that, by apparently agreeing to things in the European Council, we increase not only our own national sovereignty but the collective sovereignty of the whole Union? That also applies to our membership of NATO, the UN and other international bodies.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

First, I thank my noble friend for those words of thanks—I was going to say “condolence”—for the efforts that we are putting into explaining the Bill. He makes an extremely valuable point: where Britain’s national interests are to be promoted by further involvement under treaties or otherwise in international institutions, that is an important matter on which the Government should certainly seek support through popular consent. The argument that we cannot make progress in any of these areas of international and multinational organisations because the Government somehow fear that the people will not agree is very weak and defeatist. On the contrary, if we are to pursue the national interest in a robust way, I think that the present Government and future Governments will have no fears at all about persuading the people to give popular support and consent to the steps forward.

Yemen

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Thursday 9th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Our general position is strong support for the Gulf Cooperation Council’s plans, which have been brought forward with considerable detail and support from the neighbouring countries and the whole region. We believe that, for the moment, that is the best plan on the table. I certainly concede to my noble friend that it is not working well at the moment, but that seems to be the best possible avenue through which one could begin to see some kind of settlement emerge. That is all that I can say at the moment, beyond the fact that, of course, the United Nations remains very interested and is watching the situation closely as well.

[Lord Dykes]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that it is essential for the British Government to be even-handed in their attitude to all the countries involved in the Arab spring revolution and to wish the local population well in that process? Should that not also include Israel? Have the Government taken steps to ask the Israeli military to exercise restraint and not to shoot at unarmed civilians?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

This Question is about Yemen. We certainly aim for even-handedness in pursuing our own principles and values but, unfortunately, as every country has different situations that require delicate and different handling beyond the general principles, we have to appreciate, respect and understand the inner workings of these countries to be effective.

European Union Bill

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Tuesday 17th May 2011 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, I want to be brief, too, but I am not sure that I will succeed. This has been an immensely interesting and wide-ranging debate, as is often the way with European Union issues. All sorts of aspects have come into the debate, which are raised by the contents of Schedule 1, which we are debating. The noble Lord, Lord Liddle, has described it in various critical terms—was it mishmash? I cannot remember.

I shall attempt to explain exactly why the things in Schedule 1 are there, and I think that I will be able to show that this is not quite the random selection or lottery that has been implied. I appreciate that there are obviously a number of views on the existence and scope of the provisions in Schedule 1. I have obviously looked very carefully at the amendments tabled and at some of the arguments that have been used this evening, as we have done with all amendments tabled in Committee. I do not accept the censorious view that these matters have not been addressed seriously. Every single item in the Bill has been considered very seriously, particularly all the items in Schedule 1, just as there is a long list of less significant issues where there is unanimity at present and a veto could be removed, which are not even in Schedule 1.

The idea that there has been no consideration of these matters is not really representative of the reality. There has been immensely detailed consideration of every one in Schedule 1. Last night we went over some of the implications, which are huge, behind the nature of the different groups of items in Schedule 1. We did not go over the many other items that are not in Schedule 1, where a veto could be lifted. It is thought that although that is significant it would justify just an Act of Parliament and not the deterrent of the referendum lock. I must address the central issue—again, this will take time—put by the noble Lord, Lord Williamson. He asked whether there was any one item that one could remove from the referendum lock category down to the parliamentary Act of Parliament lock instead, or maybe even to a lower lock of merely approval of the two Houses—the sort of not very secure lock that has existed in the past over many areas. I understand that opposition spokesmen are saying that they now want to move on from that, and found not so much difficulty as they did in the past with Acts of Parliament.

Can one think of any of these areas and why the present list in Schedule 1 is as it is? It is not just the random British view of a whole series of things that people want to keep unanimity for. Many of these items are there because during the discussions leading up to the negotiation of the Lisbon treaty, which many noble Lords are very familiar with, a whole range of countries insisted that they should stay at unanimity. All kinds of other matters were moved away to QMV in the Lisbon treaty and in previous treaties, but people argued at the time—we all remember it—that the Lisbon treaty was, as it were, the high point and that many issues had been moved to QMV, but that in the national interest of many member countries a certain range of matters should be kept at unanimity, and that the veto should not be surrendered for those countries. That in itself explains why Schedule 1 exists in the form it does.

[Lord Dykes]

I apologise for making a brief intervention, but is that not an extraordinary suggestion? Why then are the UK Government including some of those items if they are not particularly interested in them, because they came from other countries? What about innocuous articles such as Article 155? Why is that in this long, provocative list of items? It is an extraordinary proposition.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord used the word “innocuous”. I do not believe that any of the matters in Schedule 1, which were put there with very careful evaluation and judgment, are innocuous. As I tried to explain last night, there are other areas of unanimity in which a veto could be removed that could be put in the less significant, if not the totally innocuous, category.

The list in Schedule 1 is not there by chance, accident or lottery; it is there because each has been evaluated and covers very sensitive issues where there would be a transfer of power. If the opportunity were taken to remove our veto in these areas—not to act, be active or develop policies in the areas—that would surrender an important power, which might greatly damage this country’s future national interest. I appreciate the sensitivity of the issues concerned.

I do not want to raise any hopes, but I do not think that the amendments, some of which have been advanced with great clarity and feeling—I shall come to specific amendments in a moment—are an appropriate opportunity to remove items from the schedule. I want to set out as clearly as I can, and as seriously and in as detailed a way as I can, why that is so. Of course, I shall continue to reflect on the points raised in today’s debate. As I said last night and in earlier Committee sittings, I am very happy to meet colleagues who want to discuss and analyse this or any other aspect of the Bill.

As ever, I have carefully listened to the Opposition’s wish—I believe it is a central theme—that they want more flexibility. I say “more” flexibility because there is flexibility in the whole pattern, as we discussed earlier. In Clause 4, there is flexibility, through the significance provisions. There is flexibility in the sense that all kinds of issues are not in Schedule 1, and those that are included in it are there for very careful reasons. As we shall learn as our discussions in Committee proceed, there is also flexibility in that a number of issues will be suitable, if changed, for an Act of Parliament rather than the application of the referendum lock. That is the flexibility theme that the Opposition have developed. They want, as I understand it, to lift the lock on some matters of competence and power. I do not want to make a cheap debating point—the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, possibly seemed to be indirectly reproving me—but I am not 100 per cent clear where, after all the work in the Lisbon treaty and the huge range of competences that exist in vital areas, about which the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, spoke so graphically, they want us to further extend the EU’s powers. My noble friend Lord Goodhart made it crystal clear, as usual, with the clarity of a fine legal mind—I say that with envy, because I wish I had the same sort of legal mind—where he wanted unanimity to be given up. I want to address his points specifically; he urged that unanimity should be given up—he used strong words, one of which was “absurd”, about there being any resistance to abandoning the veto in these areas. It was obviously not resistance to operating in these areas—we all want to see all sorts of operations—but resistance to giving up any veto.

European Union Bill

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Monday 16th May 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes]

My Lords—

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, I have a feeling that we have reached the stage in the debate when we could leave the press and the Daily Express, and move to the precise issues and amendments in the debate.

EU and NATO: Peace in Europe

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Thursday 28th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, said, with great moderation, that a beauty contest between these organisations is rather pointless. All one wants to avoid is immoderate statements claiming perfection for one against the other. All these institutions have played their part. Occasionally some enthusiasts get a bit too outspoken on the part that one institution has played and that is the time for moderation.

[Lord Dykes]

I thank my noble friend the Minister for his comprehensive reply to such a silly, childish and provocative question. Does he agree, further to the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Tomlinson, that the east European countries becoming member states of the European Union has contributed massively to continued peace?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I think I heard a bit of immoderation the other way at that point. There is reason and sense in all these points of view and if anyone strives to go too far in claiming perfection for one organisation over the other it is bound to produce a reaction, which is just what we are hearing today.

European Union Bill

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Tuesday 26th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I do not think that that would be the case, for the very good reason that the great issues that concern our national interest can be delivered very largely by the co-operation and development of close working within the existing competences of the existing treaty. My noble friend has in her mind some thought that new treaty requirements would indeed come along that would somehow be in the national interest but which Ministers would be reluctant to push for fear that they would have to expose them to the British people. There might well be issues in the future, although I cannot see any countries at the moment being terribly willing to go through the complex treaty procedure for them, which Ministers believe are in the national interest and of value and which can be pursued only by treaty change. In that case, they would rightly be required first to come before both Houses of our Parliament so that it could be explained whether they were significant or not. If they were significant, they would then be required to be put to the test of a referendum, with the Government arguing that these changes, or this package of changes, were necessary to improve the national interest and the strength of this country. That is the kind of debate we should have had over the Lisbon treaty, but of course we did not.

[Lord Dykes]

My Lords—

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

No, I am not going to give way again, I am afraid. We have had enough interventions.

I was concluding by saying that all the long-standing accusations of decision-making behind closed doors without public consent would therefore still hold true if these amendments were accepted and the wider and wider number of decisions were left to the judgment of Ministers as to whether they were significant. There are concerns, as I have said, that creeping power and creeping competence are not being properly debated and explained and not justified as being in the national interest, and have weakened the European cause.

People talk about the need for “reconnection”—that phrase came up. We have to be realistic and accept that reconnection has failed. It is failing here in this country, although we are not the only country in which it is failing. Some noble Lords seem to want to continue as before and seem to be happy to see a continued advance of European treaty changing, competence transferring and power transferring, which are precisely the trends that have so undermined public trust, weakened the European cause and made the European Union today in need of reform and less well positioned to meet the colossal challenges of the future than it should be.

I must say that I hope that some noble Lords who are my noble friends, and noble Lords who I greatly admire, will not be offended if I see them as the last knights or the lost lords of the old Europe, of the Euro elite. They are the ones who want to go back while the world goes forward, and indeed I myself sometimes have the same wish that things could go back, but they cannot. We are now in the information age. In the age of the internet and the website, the age of public empowerment, those ideas are as out of date as the Teutonic knights with their armour and their glories. So I urge the noble Lords who have moved and spoken to these amendments to withdraw them and to understand that we are living in a changed age in which the requirements of a strong and democratic European Union will change in themselves and will require new and agile legislation, understanding, and a new connection with the people of Europe.

Kyrgyzstan

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Wednesday 6th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That is a very positive idea. I will check with both those organisations to see what involvement they have. My half-memory is that they already have some involvement with promoting the beginnings and the embryo of parliamentary improvement and government in that country and associated countries. I will certainly approach them and check it out.

[Lord Dykes]

Can my noble friend say what the situation is with the freedom of the press in Kyrgyzstan at the moment?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I cannot say precisely, but there are questions about how much and whether proper freedom is being observed. There have been some criticisms. These are the sort of issues that we monitor very closely. We are not at all reticent or backward in pointing out the vital need for greater freedom of the press if democracy is to develop there.

European Union Bill

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Tuesday 5th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, it would be an implausible exaggeration to say that I have enjoyed this debate, but it is a privilege to hear the fine minds of many of your Lordships playing on these issues, which are undoubtedly complex. I do not make any apology for that, because much of the EU legislative scene is extremely complex, as are our relations with it. I strongly agree with the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, that although this seems to be an abstruse issue, which I shall address in great detail in a moment, it is also central and raises fundamental points about the whole nature and purpose of the Bill. I should also put in a good word for my Belgian friends, who came in for criticism of the kind that, frankly, I do not like. I will let that pass for the moment.

As the debate has ranged a little beyond the central point, to which the noble Lord, Lord Tomlinson, rightly urged we return, I hope that I will be allowed a few paragraphs trying to explain the context in which we come both to adherence to the central issue of the amendment and to the Bill.

We believe that there has been disaffection among the British electorate in recent years. I think that it is a mistake for the most enthusiastic supporters and builders of the European Union and our membership of it to ignore that fact, because it has led, through the successive handing over of powers to the EU—often for excellent reasons but without consultation with or the consent of the British people—to a good deal of distrust. That works totally against good Europeanism and an effective development and strengthening of the European Union, which are certainly required today.

The competences and powers have been handed over, in many cases—this is an argument that we have heard buzzing across the Floor of your Lordships’ House this afternoon—for good reasons. As my noble friend Lord Deben said, great things can be and have been gained by the handing over of competences and powers, whether or not you call it pooling of sovereignty. Others would argue, as we have heard today and often before, that the handing over of those powers has not been for the good. That wider debate has gone on and will continue in future.

Of course, the Bill does not concern what has been handed over in the past. I know that that is a matter of criticism for some of my noble friends and others in the other place, where there was considerable criticism that the Bill did not try to wind things back into the past, although it is worth reminding ourselves, as the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, did, that the House of Commons passed the Bill and gave it to us for scrutiny, which we must perform in detail.

However, that fact of dissatisfaction cannot be dismissed or pushed aside by those who seek to understand the disquiet not just in the media and in the so-called anti-European or Eurosceptic papers but among a wide number of people and organisations, including some extremely learned people and leading lights in the legal profession. That is why the coalition’s programme for government gives the undertaking:

“The Government believes that Britain should play a leading role in an enlarged European Union, but that no further powers should be transferred”.

[Lord Dykes]

I am most grateful to the Minister for giving way so early in his remarks. I apologise for interrupting him. Is he asserting that the Government have in recent weeks and months been in receipt of lots of e-mails and letters from members of the public advocating withdrawal from Europe or being strongly anti-European? Does he recall what, on the last day of the Committee of the Whole House in the Commons, the Member of Parliament for Ipswich, the distinguished son of my noble friend Lord Deben, Mr Ben Gummer, said? He said:

“Over the past few days, I have had nearly 100 emails and letters about forests, but since 7 May I have not had a single letter or email about withdrawal from the European Union”.—[Official Report, Commons, 1/1/11; col. 793.]

Will my noble friend confirm that the public are not worried about this in large numbers? It is the comics that masquerade as newspapers in Britain that are stirring it all up.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I have no idea whether that is the case with the excellent son of my noble friend Lord Deben, who is a lively Member of the other place. I do not think that that has any relevance to the general concerns expressed over the years increasingly and very vigorously in this House and the other place on all the treaties that we have debated. There is a lowering of trust, commitment and enthusiasm for the European Union, which is bad for the Union and bad for the future of our co-operation and relations with the rest of the Union and which needs to be addressed. That is the Government’s view. If it is not my noble friend’s view, that is, in a sense, bad luck, because we believe that to be so.

Yemen

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Tuesday 29th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Of course, as the noble Lord knows, these dangers are there all the time; there is no doubt about that. The al-Qaeda threat is there but is not the only threat. Al-Qaeda is most active in the north. Many of its members are being pushed over the frontier from Saudi Arabia. They are a problem and no doubt they are thinking of ways of exploiting any trouble or disturbance they can find. That is why it is essential that the president and the people of Yemen move away from the threats of violence and towards an orderly pattern of transition which they can decide for themselves.

[Lord Dykes]

I thank my noble friend for the care with which the British Government, other European Governments and America have handled these difficult situations with Arab countries. Bearing in mind that the evidence is now massively overwhelming that Arab populations want freedom, democracy and human rights, as in other countries—we have been told for decades that they did not want this and did not mind oppressive regimes—will my noble friend consider the British Government having some serious conversations with the Saudi Arabian Government to get rid of that oppressive regime and introduce some democracy there, including allowing women to drive cars?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

These are all very serious social problems but I think my noble friend would agree that if there is to be change, the aim must be to achieve the most peaceful and bloodshed-free transition. That is what we want. Obviously, we are in talks with all our opposite numbers in the Arab world and in the Gulf countries, including Saudi Arabia, as my noble friend suggests. These matters have to be dealt with and we raise them, but if we can make progress in a peaceful, orderly way, that must be the best way forward.

Israel and Palestine

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Thursday 3rd March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they and the Middle East Quartet have made of the effects of recent civil unrest in Arab countries on any resumption of Palestinian-Israeli negotiations.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, at a time of great regional uncertainty, the quick resumption of negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians is more vital, not less. We need to show that legitimate aspirations for statehood can be met through negotiations. The entire international community, led by the Middle East quartet, should now support the 1967 borders as the basis for resumed negotiations.  The result should be two states, with Jerusalem as the future capital of both, and a fair settlement for refugees.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Dykes]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer, but is this not exactly the right time when the Netanyahu Government could now display some wisdom by responding to the EU part of the quartet’s suggestions for a freeze on settlements and the immediate resumption of talks with the Palestinian Authority, to lead to a solution equitable to both new states?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend is quite right that now ought to be exactly the right time. It ought to be very much more the time than was the case even a few weeks ago. However, we have to face the reality that obviously the Israeli Government feel extremely nervous and uncertain about what is to happen in Egypt, while we are urging more decisive action and firm decisions. Still, that does not deter us at all from pushing very hard on this central issue.

Gaza

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Thursday 20th January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I say to the noble Lord that no one on any side is really performing fully in the way that we want. The relaxation has been announced and we are watching to see whether it has an impact on the ground, although, as I said earlier to my noble friend, our analysis suggests that that impact is not very great so far. However, it is at least a step in the right direction, although we have to go further, as there are so many qualifications and safeguards. I also say to the noble Lord—and it is a perfectly fair point with which I know he will agree—that rockets are raining down all the time on Israeli territory from Gaza. Therefore, the Israeli authorities have to have some safeguards with regard to equipment going into Gaza, which might be used merely to develop aggressive military weaponry for use against them. There is a balance to be struck, and I think that sensible people all round have to recognise both the difficulties and the possibilities on all sides.

[Lord Dykes]

Is my noble friend hopeful of a resumption in negotiations between the immediate parties as soon as possible, despite the enormous difficulties that that would involve? Such a resumption would help to end the prolonged collective oppression of the long-suffering Gazan population.

EU: Hungarian Presidency

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Tuesday 11th January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what European Union policy priorities they will seek to promote during the Hungarian presidency from January to June 2011.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

During the Hungarian presidency, the Government will urge the EU to prioritise its support of growth and jobs, including specific actions to increase trade and competitiveness and to assist the transition to a greener, low-carbon, high-growth European economy and a common European Union energy market. We are also seeking progress on certain international dossiers, including deepening the EU’s relations with strategic partners. Finally, we will focus on ensuring that the EU delivers better value for money.

[Lord Dykes]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. Does the Minister also agree that the beginning of the six-month presidency is a very important moment for Hungary? Is he satisfied that as a result of recent representations, both internally and externally, Prime Minister Viktor Orbán will recast the new press law in an appropriate way?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend is quite right to raise this issue, which has given rise to a certain worry. The appropriate bodies, which include the European Commission and the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe, are reviewing the proposed legislation to check whether it complies with EU law and international norms. We look forward to hearing their findings. We place great importance on the freedom and independence of the media, obviously, and we hope that the Hungarian Government will soon resolve this issue satisfactorily and that it will not adversely affect the successful operation of the Hungarian EU presidency.

EU: Repatriation of Powers

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Tuesday 14th December 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am not sure why the noble Baroness was intervening, but I was trying to answer the question when she interrupted. We are working on this now. I confess that our priority has certainly been the European Union Bill, which places new reassurances on the transfer of further competences to the EU, but nevertheless we have begun initial work on the balance of the EU’s existing competences and what they mean for Britain. When we work that out, we shall proceed constructively to see how those things can be implemented and adjusted. I see no difficulty in that procedure and in following that process, which I hope will lead us in a constructive direction.

[Lord Dykes]

Now that my noble friend is a senior member of the coalition team, will he promise at long last to be a little bit enthusiastic about our membership of the European Union? Would it not be a good idea from now on to give a lead? Does he agree that the Lisbon treaty is an ideal basis and balance for all the things that we want to do with the other 26 member states to take the European Union forward for the good of the public?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

As my noble friend is getting a bit personal, I shall say that I have always been a very enthusiastic European and advocate of sensible reform of and working with the European Union so that it goes forward in a constructive way. I do not deny that, in the past, some of the overload at the centre and the extensive acquisition of competences have tended to slow down the best kind of Europeanism. I believe that in our coalition—of which, I hasten to say, I am a very junior member—we are all united in wanting a European Union that is constructive, goes forward positively and meets the challenges of the 21st century. That is what we are all working for.

EU: Defence Pact with Russia

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Thursday 18th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, I agree with that. I repeat that we would like to see operations such as the Meseberg initiative developed, as they are fora where that kind of approach can be adopted.

[Lord Dykes]

Does my noble friend agree that the sombre reality is that there is also a need for good EU relations with Russia partly because, sadly, the United States is recklessly destabilising the Middle East as a result of its amazingly obsequious attitude to Netanyahu?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

With respect to my noble friend, that point is slightly “yesterday”. There are definite signs of an improvement in US-Russian relations. Of course, there are all sorts of collateral issues, of which he has mentioned one, but the general trend is in a positive direction with the START negotiations moving to a signature and a whole variety of other developments. Therefore, I do not think that the situation is quite as bad as my noble friend suggests.

Tajikistan

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Wednesday 17th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, who reminds us that there is an important parliamentary delegation in this country led by the respected Speaker of the Tajik Parliament. I know that the noble Lord had the opportunity to meet and converse with this delegation. He raises valid points about language training. Language training does go on; indeed, part of our defence co-operation is that we assist with language training. He is certainly correct that this is a valuable part of the support for the future and something on which we must seek to build. There are obviously priorities for DfID to look at. Indeed, DfID is looking at recurrently reviewing the whole range of its support operations, almost around the world, including those in the Caucasus and in the region that we are discussing. That does not deny for a moment, however, that language training is one of the great exports and assets that we can contribute to peace and stability in the region, which I hope will continue to be the case.

[Lord Dykes]

Will the Minister say anything about the insecurities of some of the surrounding territories, with particular reference to the recent political disorders in Kyrgyzstan? For example, what is the position of the BBC World Service and the British mission in Kyrgyzstan?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Although the Question is not about Kyrgyzstan, which is to the north of Tajikistan, the noble Lord is certainly right that the regional issues all impinge on one another. We are still concerned about the terrible violence that went on in Kyrgyzstan back in the summer and we very much hope that the political process can now be reinforced and that a coalition can be built to bring stability to the area. I do not have at my fingertips exactly where BBC World Service activities stand, but the message of independent news delivery, ideally in acceptable languages, is very important. It is an area that concerns us and we hope that the horrible violence of the recent past will not be repeated.

Israel and Gaza

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Dykes

Tuesday 8th June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right. This is the dilemma. Israel does have the right to restrain the import of weapons, bombs and so on into the control of Hamas. At the same time, we all want to see the sufferings of the people of Gaza minimised and the maximum supplies of food, building materials, medical supplies and so on imported into Gaza. That is the dilemma that must be solved. The right way forward is along the lines proposed, with pressure on Israel to do that rather than creating some head-on conflict with Israel when it is the country with which we need to co-operate to achieve the two-state solution that we all want to see.

[Lord Dykes]

In the mean time, my Lords, will my noble friend confirm that the peace talks and the proximity talks are proceeding apace, despite the continuing weakness of the quartet mechanism, which is deeply disappointing to all observers? Will he reassure us that the sinister rumours that George Mitchell is less than even-handed between Israel and Palestinian lobbies are not true?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I can give that reassurance. I can also tell my noble friend that the Palestinian authorities have shown no inclination to withdraw from the proximity talks or from the talks that might follow them. For the moment that side of the situation holds together, despite all these unhappy developments in recent days.