National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Debate between Lord Howard of Rising and Lord Sharkey

Committee stage
Wednesday 29th January 2025 Grand Committee

[Lord Howard of Rising (Con)]

As my noble friend says, you get a knighthood—possibly even a barony. If you get something wrong, throw more money at it until it becomes an embarrassment that can no longer be hidden and hushed up. HS2’s original budget was £37.5 billion. Only when the estimated cost has risen to £90 billion—and counting—is the project being reined in. The idea of spending £100 million on a bat shelter defies the imagination. I mean: who could have thought of that one?

As economists are being quoted, might I quote Professor Milton Friedman? He said:

“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there’d be a shortage of sand”.


What the Government should do is what anybody in this Room, faced with the same problem in their own life—too much spending and not enough income—would do: cut spending to solve the problem. Given that that is unlikely to happen, will His Majesty’s Government carefully consider what they are doing and try to reduce some of the negative consequences of this increase in national insurance for employers? A sensible first step would be to prepare a proper impact assessment for those small companies, often described as the engine of the economy.

[Lord Sharkey (LD)]

My Lords, we have a lot of sympathy for the amendments in this group. My noble friend Lady Kramer has added her name to Amendment 22.

It is absolutely right that we should be concerned about the effects of the proposed NICs rise on small businesses. These businesses are at the heart of our economy. As the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon, said several Prime Ministers ago:

“There are over 5.7 million Small to Medium Enterprises in the UK. They are the engine of growth in our economy, driving innovation and greater productivity, finding solutions and creating jobs”.


In fact, our SMEs provide 16.6 million jobs—60% of the total number in the United Kingdom. Their total turnover is estimated at £2.8 trillion. They are in many ways more important than much larger businesses—certainly when it comes to providing jobs—but they are probably more vulnerable than large businesses to these NIC changes, with less ability to absorb increased costs. The SME landscape is very varied, but it seems vital for us to be able to assess the likely effects of the proposals before us on different sizes of SMEs.

That is why I note in particular Amendment 33, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes. As she explained, this amendment proposes an impact assessment of the provisions in Clause 2 on employers with an annual turnover of less than £1 million, less than £5 million and less than £10 million before the changes in the clause can be brought about; these are probably the sizes of business that are most likely to have difficulty dealing with the additional costs imposed by this Bill. It would have been good to have had such an impact assessment before these debates, but Amendment 33 would go some way to putting that right, as the noble Lord, Lord Londesborough, remarked—pace the charge of underspecification from the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell. Perhaps the Minister could provide us with more granular estimates of the effects of Clause 2 on the smaller SMEs even if he cannot, or will not, provide us with the traditional, full and necessary impact assessment.