Financial Services and Markets Bill [HL]

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 8th July 2026 Grand Committee

[Lord Ranger of Northwood (Con)]

My Lords, I support my noble friend’s Amendment 164 and will speak to Amendments 164A, 164B and 164C in my name. I declare my interest as a non-executive director of Ecila.Group—an R&D-focused firm in digital assets and payments infrastructure. I am also a member of the UKUS Crypto Alliance and, for completion, the co-chair of the Digital Markets and Digital Money APPG.

The amendments in my name go some way towards the underlying point, which is that, if the United Kingdom wants to be a serious global centre for digital assets, tokenisation and digital financial markets, we need a regulatory framework and, as my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe mentioned, a strategy that is clear, coherent, proportionate and capable of supporting innovation. We do not have that at the moment. We have a lack of clear regulatory direction, too many overlapping areas of responsibility, regulators with differing priorities and, in some cases, different and changing levels of appetite towards digital assets. We also have firms that are trying to understand whether the UK is genuinely open for innovation or whether it will remain a jurisdiction where uncertainty and delay make it harder to invest, scale and launch new products.

I say this because I have heard it directly from industry, particularly over the last 18 months. During that period, I have engaged extensively with businesses in the digital asset arena. I have also travelled to other jurisdictions such as the US—I have been to Washington four times in that period—and the UAE. I have spoken to the US SEC chair, Paul Atkins, I have met with Commissioner Hester Peirce several times and I have spoken to policymakers in these jurisdictions to understand their approach, as well as what they think we should be considering.

These are issues, as my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe said, because we are looking for growth. Firms are developing products, consumers are engaging with digital assets, and institutions are looking at tokenisation, digital collateral, new settlement systems and digital market infrastructure. The world is changing; it is already happening. Other jurisdictions are therefore moving fast. If we do not provide clarity, firms and—as has been said—jobs, growth and investment will move and move fast. This is very much a global market change.

The problem is not simply too little regulation. In some respects, a deeper problem is that the regulatory landscape is not yet properly constituted to support the market. If we simply layer new regulation on top of old regulation, without first clarifying who is responsible, what the objectives are, what the vision is and how the different regimes fit together, we risk creating an even more complex framework, with more duplication and confusion, than the one we have already.

That is why Amendment 164A is important. It would require the FCA and the PRA to establish and maintain a defined and representative digital assets industry forum. The forum would be co-chaired by senior regulatory representatives and a senior industry figure, and would bring together regulators, digital asset firms, tokenised businesses, banks, payment firms, market infrastructure providers and relevant trade bodies. The point is simple: the Government and regulators need a proper, structured mechanism for engagement with the industry if we are to take sensible steps in this area.

This is a fast-moving and highly technical area. Regulation cannot be developed in silos by separate regulators. Regulators need to understand how these products work, where the risks are, where innovation is taking place and where proposed rules may have unintended consequences. Industry needs to understand what regulators expect and where the UK intends to go, if not lead. At the moment, that dialogue is not sufficiently structured and there is not the sort of ongoing forum that a market of this complexity requires. Without that, we risk regulating by assumption, rather than by evidence, and we risk fragmentation.

My Amendment 164B addresses a related issue: access to banking, payment and settlement services for digital asset firms. This is a very real concern. A digital asset firm may be regulated or registered—it may have compliance systems, governance and legitimate commercial activity—but still struggle to obtain the basic banking and payment services that it needs to operate. This is a serious barrier to growth and market entry, which again I have heard many times from businesses in the sector.

There is also a debanking point here. If the regulatory environment is unclear, banks and payment providers may respond by taking the most conservative approach possible. They may decide that it is simply easier not to serve digital asset firms at all, rather than navigate regulatory uncertainty. Financial crime risk, supervisory expectations and reputational concerns all build a very strong defensive risk posture. That does not support innovation. It does not support competition. It entrenches incumbents, disadvantages new entrants and pushes activities to other jurisdictions. This is a consequence of the regulatory environment that we have right now. Yes, we must balance the risks that are out there, but we must also seek to encourage innovation and the market.

My amendment would require the Treasury to review how access to banking, payment and settlement services affects competition, innovation and market entry into the sector. It would also require consideration of whether the current and proposed framework risks conferring an advantage on incumbent firms over new entrants and firms developing new products. That is an important question. If the UK says it wants a thriving digital asset sector but firms cannot get bank accounts, access payments infrastructure or access settlement services, policy ambition will not be delivered in practice.

Amendment 164C concerns consumer redress. This is another area in which clarity is required. Digital assets do not always fit neatly into existing financial services redress frameworks. Consumers need to know what protections they have, where complaints should go, what remedies may be available and how responsibility is allocated when something goes wrong. Firms also need to know what standards apply to them and the liabilities they face. The amendment would require the Treasury to review whether the existing consumer redress framework can provide a clear, coherent, proportionate and internationally competitive basis for regulated digital asset markets. The key word is “proportionate”. We need consumer protection, but we must not create a redress environment that is so uncertain or open-ended that firms decide that the UK is not a viable place to operate. Equally, we must not leave consumers in a position where they do not understand their rights or where harmful conduct falls between regimes.

The wider concern behind all three amendments is that the UK risks falling behind because of a lack of clarity. Industry is not asking for no regulation; it is asking for clear, proportionate regulation that reflects the pace of technological change and the markets that are beginning to exist. My fear is that if we carry on regulating digital assets in a piecemeal way, we will end up with a regime that is consistently playing catch-up or that delivers unintended consequences. It will be unpredictable, overly burdensome and difficult for firms to navigate—even more so than it is already. That would be a bad outcome for innovation, for consumers and for the competitiveness of the United Kingdom.

I will therefore be listening carefully to the Minister’s response to my noble friend’s amendment that calls for a digital assets strategy, to which I have added my name. We should be trying to streamline, simplify and clarify the regime, not add more layers of uncertainty. I would be grateful if the Minister could also address the following three points. First, will the Government commit to establishing a proper representative industry forum for digital assets so that regulators and market participants can engage continuously and constructively? Secondly, what assessments have the Government made of the difficulties digital asset firms face in obtaining banking, payment and settlement services, and the effect this has on competition and market entry? Thirdly, how will the Government ensure that the consumer redress framework for digital assets is clear, coherent and proportionate without making the UK an unattractive place for responsible firms to operate?

As has been said, the UK has a real opportunity in digital assets and tokenised finance. The opportunity will not be realised unless firms know where they stand, so we need clarity, co-ordination and confidence. These amendments are designed to help the Government to provide that.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow my noble friend Lord Ranger of Northwood. I agree with all the amendments that he has eloquently described. I support my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe, and particularly her Amendment 163, to which I have added my name. The Government rightly talk about growth. The reality is that digital assets, tokenisation and market dematerialisation are sources of growth in potentially a shorter time than some other sectors that have had greater focus.

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Moved by

[Lord Holmes of Richmond]

164E: After Clause 46, insert the following new Clause—
“Shared digital identity and compliance utilities(1) The Secretary of State must, within 18 months of the day on which this Act is passed, publish a specification for—(a) a shared digital identity utility (“the identity utility”), providing API-based identity verification services accessible to authorised persons and regulated institutions operating in both legacy and digital markets;(b) a shared anti-money laundering and know your customer compliance utility (“the compliance utility”), providing API-based access to customer due diligence data and screening services.(2) The specification must address— (a) governance arrangements, including whether the utilities are to be publicly owned, privately owned under public specification, or operated as industry utilities;(b) data standards and interoperability requirements;(c) access arrangements for legacy and digital ledger technology-based market participants;(d) privacy and data protection safeguards, including compliance with the UK GDPR;(e) the transition period during which legacy and digital know your customer processes will operate in parallel.(3) The FCA may make rules—(a) requiring regulated institutions to register with and use the identity utility or compliance utility once operational;(b) providing that compliance with compliance utility standards satisfies the customer due diligence requirements of the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017.(4) Use of the identity utility or compliance utility by a regulated institution does not, of itself, discharge that institution’s obligations under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 or under the FCA's financial crime rules.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment is modelled on Singapore’s MyInfo and the EU's European Digital Identity Wallet framework.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to open this group of amendments in my name. I can only apologise to the Committee that I did not manage to get through the full alphabet and require Roman numerals to be used after some of the amendments —perhaps when we come to Report. I will take Amendment 164E first before moving to the substantive group, which all speak to tokenisation and market demat.

Amendment 164E goes to the digital opportunity that we have when it comes to many issues, not least what passes for KYC and AML. In many ways, KYC has failed to deliver for more than quite a long time in the UK. Indeed, as a jurisdiction, we are not alone in that fact. It would be a joke if it was not true that you can avail yourself of financial services and other products by demonstrating what a capital, stand-up character you are because you produce a paper gas bill. We can do better, and we need to do better not only in terms of KYC and AML, but in terms of being able to realise all the opportunities from digital assets, tokenisation and market demat. We need an effective system of digital ID, and that is what Amendment 164E is all about. It is uncontroversial and draws on systems already in place, such as the MyInfo system in Singapore and the EU digital ID wallet framework. I will be interested in the Minister’s response on Amendment 164E and, if he is not in favour of it, his thoughts on the current situation and how it is working in terms of the digital ID framework in the EU and, indeed, the MyInfo system in Singapore.

The remainder of the amendments in this group continue the discussions that we had on the previous group. My noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe, in her Amendment 163, displayed brevity in what I have taken an entire group of amendments to do. I have sought to open up the detail: the critical factors and principles we need to consider and put into the Bill to enable tokenisation and market demat, to have the right frameworks in place, and to send the right signals across the UK and around the world that we, the UK, not only understand what is required but want to be market leaders, market shapers and market makers in this space.

Many colleagues joined me in this Room in 2021 for the Financial Services Bill, in 2023 for the Financial Services and Markets Bill and through these past six days on this latest Financial Services and Markets Bill. Is the conclusion we draw from that that we are having too many financial services Bills or do we see that given there has been a three-year gap since the last one they are becoming fewer and farther between? Whatever the right conclusion, if we have a sizeable Financial Services and Markets Bill in front of us now, why would we not take the opportunity to put in at least a clear framework for what is required: tokenisation, market demat and all the potential opportunities of digital assets for the United Kingdom? I will not try the patience of the Committee by running through every amendment in detail, so long as I can be assured that the Minister will address every amendment when he comes to respond. I definitely saw a nod from him.

However, the issues that I set out, and the underlying principles, are clear. We have to move to tokenisation. There will clearly be a period in which we have tokenised and traditional assets coexisting. They need to be able to interoperate; there need to be bridges between them, and from one to the other. They need to be clearly understood and set out. When many argue that we cannot legislate in time, I merely offer the Electronic Trade Documents Act and the Property (Digital Assets etc) Act. Both are very precise, clear and blessedly very short statutes that enabled clear opportunities in the similar area of what these emerging technologies can deliver.

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[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, I am going to be brief again: these are very interesting amendments. The breadth of the amendments put before us by the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, gives us a sense of the extensive work that must be done, right across the plumbing of the entire financial services sector, to move and take advantage of the opportunities of the digital world. There is no discussion here of some of the risks, namely about the levers of power shifting to different hands and whether we should be concerned about that or whether there are monetary sovereignty issues. Those are crucial issues, and we cannot walk away from them. Plumbing seems boring, but it is crucial. It seems that every aspect of that plumbing has been raised here, something that I hoped we might hear about in greater detail from the Government. I am particularly focused on the first of the amendments tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, which is Amendment 164C. I apologise, I have the wrong one.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

That was good too, though.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

That was very good too. I meant Amendment 164E, which is headed,

“Shared digital identity and compliance utilities”.

I come from a party that is always very concerned about identity cards, whether they are digital or traditional, old-fashioned cards, and what they do to privacy and independence, so I have those caveats constantly in the back of my mind. It seems to me, however, that a series of fundamental questions are raised by the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, in subsection (2), where he talks about the various specifications, the governance arrangements, the very straightforward things such as whether utilities are to be publicly or privately owned, under public specifications or operated as industry utilities. There are issues of data, access to digital ledgers, privacy, data protection and how to cope with the transition period, which will be very complex and very different for different individuals. Some people will transition completely almost in the blink of an eye, and others will be very late adopters. That creates a whole set of issues around financial inclusion and exclusion. I hope very much that we will get the discussion that we need, particularly around subsection (2), which then sits as a foundation to all the other issues that are raised. These are issues that engage the regulator, of course, but many of them are above the regulatory pay grade, and we need to be engaged on those issues here in this Committee.

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I thank the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, for bringing these matters to our attention. I hope that I have somewhat reassured him and the rest of the Committee that the Government and the regulators have a robust set of work aimed at addressing these points, while acknowledging that this is a fast-paced, moving environment. I therefore ask the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. It certainly seems that I am getting more from the Liberal Democrat Front Bench than my own Front Bench at the moment—strange times, but there we are. For the time being, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 164E withdrawn.

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[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, in moving Amendment 167, I am grateful for the support of my noble friend Lord Altrincham and the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann.

Financial education is incredibly important, but it is unusually weak in the UK compared to, for example, Finland, the Netherlands, Singapore and Australia. The Times rightly has a campaign to improve it. Rishi Sunak has spent time and effort since leaving office trying to do so, citing how much better people do in life if they understand inflation, the magic of compound interest and the importance of diversifying risk. Financial education is an issue on which I have campaigned for a very long time, notably in my 2022 review of the state pension age. I believe it is central to how people live their lives, make decisions, protect themselves and participate responsibly in the economy. It helps them to make sensible decisions about borrowing, mortgages, insurance and pensions, to avoid scams and financial harm, and to understand basic financial and economic statistics. This is a mission that I hope noble Lords of all political perspectives can support.

Amendment 167 would give the FCA a new statutory duty to promote public understanding of financial services and financial capability. For example, it could produce succinct basic explanatory material on concepts such as compound interest, basic banking, and portfolio and asset diversification. The amendment would require the FCA to report annually on the actions it has taken to improve financial capability, the groups most at risk of poor financial literacy, the groups most vulnerable to financial exclusion, and how improved financial capability contributes to consumer resilience, competition and economic growth.

The reason this matters is that the FCA’s current objectives focus on consumer protection, market integrity, competition, and growth and competitiveness. There is not currently a primary statutory duty on the FCA to improve financial capability across society. Better-informed consumers are less vulnerable to fraud and more likely to save, plan for retirement, compare products, switch providers and exercise choice. That supports not only individual resilience but competition and growth. Poor financial literacy often falls hardest on those who are already vulnerable or excluded. If people do not understand the financial system then they are less able to access it, less able to challenge poor treatment, less able to avoid expensive mistakes and less able to make decisions which improve their long-term security.

One problem is that financial education provision is scattered and variable in quality. There are many good initiatives, some even by the private sector, as I remember from the work done by Tesco Bank in Scotland, but they are not joined up. The curriculum has been improved slightly, although mainly through citizenship and maths, with some schools doing very good work but others being less effective. As recent debates on student loans have shown, this is something that we really need to grasp. We ask 17 and 18 year-olds to make significant financial decisions with long-term consequences, yet we do not ensure that they are equipped with the skills and knowledge needed to make the decisions well.

Many teachers find financial education difficult, and, like people from all walks of life, they are not aware enough of it in their own lives, let alone skilled enough to teach the basics well. They need support, resources and confidence. Financial education needs to be included in teacher training and linked to university teaching. I echo the difficulties of the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, with the scope of the Bill, since an amendment I tabled on the subject was rejected.

The truth is we need a step change at every level. My amendment does not ask the FCA to replace schools, teachers, parents, charities, or the Money and Pensions Service—although that service is too divorced from most financial transactions to do a good job. Our amendment would impose a duty on the FCA to recognise that improving financial capability should be part of its mission, and would require it to report properly each year on what it is doing. That could have a catalytic effect.

I welcome Amendment 170, in the name of my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond, which would require the FCA to work with the Money and Pensions Service to produce a national financial education strategy. That is complementary to my amendment.

There is a strong case for a more joined-up national approach. Financial education should not be a patchwork of disconnected initiatives. We need a coherent strategy, covering budgeting, saving, investment literacy, pensions, debt, fraud prevention, digital finance and support for vulnerable groups. I was glad to have a positive response on this issue from the noble Lord, Lord Livermore, to a recent Question, and would be very grateful if the Minister could respond to our pleas. Better financial education could be a key pillar of consumer protection. This is an area where a legacy is waiting to be created. I beg to move.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is an absolute pleasure to follow my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe. I support her Amendment 167, which, as she rightly identifies, has many common themes with my Amendment 170.

I have been working on financial education and financial capability for a long time. As my noble friend rightly identifies, and as we have mentioned in other groups, the need for a coherent cross-society, cross-economy financial education and financial capability strategy, covering every stage of life, could barely be more needed than it is today.

There are two pernicious forces striding our streets, walking hand in hand: financial exclusion and digital exclusion, one often causing and compounding the other. Becky Francis’s review found that it was absolutely key to have financial education and capability within the curriculum, but it is about how that naturally touches on digital capability, media literacy and capability, and AI literacy and capability. These threads all come together, and can do so a positive, additive fashion if they are seen as positive, and are personalised and focused on the individual at every stage of her or his life, to enable all of us to make choices and to be included. With so much in society going digital—to be fair, not much in the Bill is going digital, but that is perhaps an outlier—financial exclusion for want of financial education and capability could dramatically increase and exacerbate the exclusion already felt by those at the most extreme end of our society.

Education is not just about what happens with the curriculum; it is a matter for our regulator. Through that, when it is a primary concern for the regulator, it gives it a sharpness of focus, putting it right at the centre for the regulator responsible for our financial services. It works with the Government’s stated aims in other areas. If the Government constantly state that they want to take a domain-specific approach, a financial education and capability, together with a domain-specific approach, will mean that the FCA will bring in money advice and a pension service alongside that.

I add to this to ensure that financial education and capability go beyond traditional products. When one considers how many young people are engaging with and investing in—in some senses, I put quotes around “investing in”—crypto, it is clear that the financial education and capability need to cover all the financial products, instruments and assets that are currently out there and being used and traded, not least by young people, who need to be enabled, empowered and given the capability and capacity to choose which products they want to engage with in a meaningful and capable fashion.

Amendment 171 is a different matter. It is a very specific amendment on SME right of action with the FCA—a right of action that is currently not available to SMEs. One can see at first blush why this is the case, because there is a clear distinction between a private person and an SME. The difficulty is, as currently set out in Section 138D of FSMA on the definition of a private person, that a private person and an SME are, in reality, characters that represent a principle and policy that sit underneath them. That is what the amendment is all about. The principle being set out is the assumption that a private person is always in need of a right of action because of their circumstances, which an SME is not.

This is beguilingly appealing at first blush, but entirely wrong in being a coherent strategy that includes everyone. The reason is that it inevitably tends to the mean: the average private person on the famous omnibus or the average SME with levels of understanding, support and financial wherewithal. But that does not cut it. That should never have cut it, and it does not cut it for current situations, because, on the one hand, it is clearly entirely possible and a reality that thousands of small and micro entities out there do not have these assumed resources, capabilities and capacities. On the other hand, there are millions of private persons who are far more capable and economically sophisticated than these small and micro entities.

This amendment is specific, clear and coherent: it is to extend that right of action to small and micro entities. I am not suggesting that the drafting is perfect; there may need to be de minimis levels put in, or a clearer definition of what small and micro entities are. But again, if the Government want growth and to back our businesses, not least our small and micro businesses, it is a question of coherence, clarity and fairness. SMEs should have a right of action when it comes to the FCA. This should not be limited just to private persons, as currently set out. I look forward to the Minister’s response and I beg to move.

[Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)]

I cannot but support the desire for greater public understanding of financial matters. The noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, and the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, have made a powerful case for better understanding, but I am not convinced that they have made the case for it to be focused in the way that they have set out in their amendments, so I look forward to the response from my noble friend the Minister. I want to make two points about these amendments.

The first is that better understanding is not a magic trick. We can be in favour of it but we must never overstate what it can achieve. It certainly does not weaken the case for effective regulation or remove the need for it at all. We need to be clear about that because, sometimes, when the issue is discussed there is a slight—or sometimes more than a slight, perhaps an overt—suggestion that that is what it would achieve.

It is worth my quoting a bit from the interim report from the Second Pensions Commission, which is obviously about pensions but gets to the heart of the matter. It says in its report:

“As with the principles underlying automatic enrolment, the pensions system needs to work in the interests of savers as they enter retirement and protect those who do not, or cannot, engage”.


That is the bottom line: whether people choose to take education or are capable of taking it, they are still entitled to first-class financial services. I am sure everyone here would agree with that, but sometimes it is not front and centre to the way that people think about it.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

Just to be clear, is the noble Lord suggesting that in anything that I have set out—I will not speak for my colleagues—financial education and financial capability would then be used to weaken and have lesser regulation? I do not believe that that is what I said.

[Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)]

No, I am not for one moment suggesting that. I am saying that, in other discussions, I have heard it said explicitly or by implication. It is a danger and, given what we are trying to achieve, it is one that we should recognise and take account of.

My second point is that both amendments refer to the FCA. The first amendment, from the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, specifically refers to pensions. Let us be clear: the FCA knows little or nothing about pensions. It is the wrong body to undertake any form of public information about pensions. I have heard the discussion on the regulation of pensions and people asking, “Why do we have two regulators?” Well, we do have two: one is the Pensions Regulator and the other is the FCA, but the FCA’s involvement is narrow and we should understand that it is dying. It is going because personal pensions are dead, and the FCA will have little or nothing to do with pensions in the future. The life companies have not quite realised this yet—they are fighting against it—but history will remove them from this market.

Clearly, pensions do not fall within the ambit of the FCA for these purposes. It can provide information about life insurance products and annuities, but those are not pensions. The word “pensions” is wrong in Amendment 167.

Artificial Intelligence: Impact on Human Relationships and Society

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Friday 5th June 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my relevant interests as adviser to the Crown Estate, Endava PLC and Simmons & Simmons LLP.

I congratulate the most reverend Primate not only on securing this debate but, much more importantly, on the short journey she has taken from Saint Paul’s to Lambeth Palace and, through that, the magnificent distance she has travelled for all those who will follow and for the entire global communion.

In considering that question of travel, it is worth considering how far AI has travelled. A good place to start is with the good book. Some decades ago, a basic ML sought to translate the Bible from English into Russian. For Matthew’s sage comment,

“the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak”,

the translation came up with “the vodka is good, but the meat is rotten”. We have all experienced such meals from time to time.

It is fair to say that AI has travelled more than a cosmos since then, and it is for that reason—putting the human and the social context on this—I wrote a report last year, 8 Realities, 8 Billion Reasons to Regulate, taking eight human experiences and archetyping them for general effect. Let us take the school, the workplace and the therapy setting: just three.

In school, a smartphone could be such a positive deliverer of personalised learning, not least for those who find themselves all too often at the sharp end: those with special educational needs or disabilities. Yet, because of the platforms on those smartphones, we are on the brink—understandably and desperately unfortunately—of a ban. Those smartphones could still, potentially but not inevitably, be such a powerful classroom assistant for all in education.

Then there is the job seeker who is constantly rejected, not making the shortlist and not even knowing that AI is often behind sometimes biased decisions. Even if she or he knew that, they have no right or place to seek redress.

In the therapy setting, there is such positive potential from AI, yet we all know the horrific stories, many of them currently in the courts. Even the changes that have been made do not solve this issue. They offer management and legalistic solutions that simultaneously drop people mid-conversation and are similarly damaging to the most vulnerable in our societies. In short, how do we consider the outcome of hundreds of millions daily seeking online therapy and getting relational cues from bots that have no relational capacity? None of us knows the outcomes.

Ultimately, as ever, this is a question of belief: credo. Can we believe in the developers, deployers, designers and sellers of these systems? Should we believe in the business models that are built around them? Can we believe that our data—sometimes our most sensitive personal data—will be treated with dignity, respect, privacy and lack of bias?

Credo, credo, credo; we need more than good intentions. We know all too well what they have the potential to pave. We need urgent government action to bring forward principles-based, outcomes-focused, inputs-understood, right-sized, cross-sector legislation and attendant regulation. We need international connection and collaboration, working on international standards and agreements, all imbued with human values. We need to see the convening of public engagement the like of which we have never seen across our United Kingdom, so that everybody can express their fears and their hopes and see how they can share in the prosperity and the possibilities of these technologies.

Without this and more from government, I am afraid that government efforts with AI in the UK are “credo, not so much”. We find ourselves not in a position to optimise. We find ourselves, I am afraid, more like flies to little boys. We are flies to the bots. They kill us because they are bored.

Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Cryptoassets) Regulations 2025

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Wednesday 28th January 2026 Grand Committee

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to take part in this debate on these regulations in Grand Committee. In doing so, I declare my interests, as set out in the register: as non-executive director of Avalanche (BVI) Inc and the Avalanche Foundation, a layer 1 blockchain protocol; and as adviser to Simmons and Simmons LLP.

I thank the Minister for the way that he introduced these regulations. They are a good thing and people have had time to consider them. They set out the Government’s position and ambition when it comes to crypto assets. We should all welcome this; there is an extraordinary opportunity for the UK when it comes to crypto assets, broader digital assets, tokenisation and broader allied technologies. We could take a stat from any of the main consultancies; all we need to know is that this is material to the UK economy and measurable in the billions.

What does this statutory instrument do to help us towards that objective? First, we should probably take a moment to slay two myths that dog this area and the broader technology space. The first is that you can have either regulation or innovation, not both. I believe that the Government’s approach to crypto assets and broader digital assets proves that it is possible to regulate in a way that enables innovation, proper regulation and the necessary consumer protection. We saw similar approaches with the fintech regulatory sandbox in 2016, the market intervention from the CMA with open banking and, decades ago, the approach that the UK Government took to the mobile telephony sector. We know how to do what I describe as right-sized regulation.

The second myth is that we cannot possibly legislate in time for these new technologies and financial instruments. If we look at just two recent examples—the Electronic Trade Documents Act and the Property (Digital Assets etc) Act—we can see clear, focused, specific legislation passed in good time that is already having a positive impact on our economy and businesses and for individuals right across the UK.

It should also be noted that we are not behind the curve when we compare other jurisdictions. Certainly the GENIUS Act in the United States has perhaps had more column inches and broadcast minutes devoted to it but, when we consider the timeline for the implementation of that Act and look at what is currently happening with MiCA in the EU, the UK should not feel behind the curve in any sense.

I welcome these regulations, but with one significant caveat—one wrinkle that I believe needs to be addressed. It is simply that the regulations as currently drafted roll together stablecoins and other crypto assets. For example, unbacked bitcoin is treated in the same way as fiat-backed stablecoin. I cannot believe that this is the intention of the Government in drafting these regulations, because unbacked bitcoin and fiat-backed stablecoin operate in very different ways and have extraordinarily different purposes. Crucially, the difference can be set out just in understanding the difference between something that is backed and something that is completely unbacked. Bitcoin could largely be considered a speculative investment; stablecoin is more of a payment methodology—money, if you will. I ask the Minister whether that is the intention of the regulations, whether that follows from the stated policy around crypto assets and stablecoins and whether a change to the regulations is not required at this stage to perfect what I would argue is a significant problem.

I do not believe it can be right that fiat-backed stablecoins are treated as investments—they are not investments. If they are, there is a clear and present threat to the burgeoning stablecoin industry in the UK, which, if these regulations go through, may be stifled before it has had time to even get thoroughly under way. To be clear, stablecoins and other potential payment methods, such as central bank digital currencies, are the cash leg to these new digital markets and digital economy. If we stifle that at this stage, we will be killing off all those broader possibilities from such digital markets.

Take, for example, somebody who wished to use fiat-backed stablecoins to make a payment, engage in FX, or be involved in a money market fund. They would be using a fiat-backed stablecoin rather than fiat itself. Can it be right that the regulations as currently drafted would treat that person differently just by dint of them using fiat-backed stablecoin rather than cash? It would necessitate FCA licensing, so an increased regulatory burden for doing largely the same thing, and, in reality, that licence would not be sought—the industry would simply choose not to use that stablecoin methodology, and thus it would be killed off at that stage.

I believe a solution exists, and it is relatively straightforward at this stage: to exclude qualifying stablecoins from the definition of qualifying crypto assets. It would not be problematic. It would fit very well with Deputy Governor Sarah Breeden’s speech on a multi-money universe. Consumer protection would be unaffected, because of the issuing provisions already set out. The safeguarding duties would kick in and have a positive impact. I do not believe any changes would be needed to the staking provisions. Crucially, it would leave policy in the correct place to enable stablecoins to be integrated into the upcoming overhaul of payment regulations. I argue that payment regulations is the correct place for stablecoins, as they are, in essence, money. Another solution could be to look at how the current definitions are set out around dealing and arranging. It is more complex, but equally doable. Two options exist to setting right this wrinkle in the regulations.

It is not that this is a minor drafting point. There will be clear, present and immediate harm to our industry and economy if the regulations are passed in their current form. This is not just a matter of theory. We can see this already in the EU, where the double regulation of stablecoins—MTS in that jurisdiction—is currently causing harm, hampering the development of that industry across the EU, and is already subject to review. We can avoid that issue before it becomes a problem if we make this change to the regulations.

The policy note that accompanied the regulations when they were first set out said that this is a draft SI and should not be considered final. Does the Minister agree that that continues to be the situation and that we can make these changes to the regulations? There is a great deal at stake for the UK here. This is such an important piece of the UK’s global aspiration when it comes to crypto assets, digital assets, tokenisation, and the whole digital market and economy transformation that we all want to bring about for the benefit of the citizen and the consumer, companies and our country. The opportunity exists. We cannot allow it to founder for want of this simple change.

The Government’s growth agenda can be effectively enabled through stablecoins and broader digital assets. Similarly, does the Minister agree that there is a real opportunity for the effective and efficient offshoring of government debt through the effective deployment of stablecoins? It is a real opportunity for the UK economy. If you want a use case to prove this point, just look at how USDC is currently operating.

At stake is a growth matter and a global economic matter. This is a way to effectively change how government debt is treated in a material way for the economy. More broadly, in considering the whole issue around crypto and digital assets, having even greater clarity from the Government, beyond growth and innovation, and making a clear statement as to what we want as the UK—what position we want to play when it comes to cryptocurrencies, assets, digital assets and stablecoins, sharpening the arrowhead of the Government’s mission—would be incredibly helpful across this industry. We have an extraordinary opportunity that we can take only if we make the changes to these regulations.

Will the Minister agree to meet me and other industry colleagues, potentially with the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, to discuss how we can perfect these regulations to be the positive, clear and consistent regulatory landscape that will enable industry and consumers to have the best experience and the most economically improving approach to crypto assets, stablecoins and digital assets in the UK? I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, I confess that, when tried to work my way through this statutory instrument, I felt incredibly inadequate. I cannot pretend super expertise on crypto assets and stable coins. Most of the information that comes my way is, frankly, from the industry lobbying for the maximum amount of scope, along with assurances that this is just a much more efficient plumbing of the payment system—nothing troubling here, just an opportunity to enhance the economy.

I realise that a regulatory framework is necessary, as crypto has become mainstream and is no longer fringe. While I do not oppose the SI, I retain quite a degree of uncertainty. I start by picking up the issue of stablecoin. I know Chris, or the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, really well—I apologise for almost forgetting his name; I have moments of holes in the brain that I suspect come with age—but I question the assertion that stablecoin is essentially just fiat currency in another form. I know some of the stablecoin companies such as Tether argue that basically one Tether equals $1 in the form of treasuries. I am also clear that much of this is opaque. Those who I understand see the accounts of some of these firms say that, if stablecoins were really only matched one to one with a fiat currency, their earnings would be no more than the return you would get—if it was, for example, a dollar stablecoin—on US treasuries. That does not square with the earnings that they either report or promote as part of their future. There is certainly something opaque about stablecoin. We are much safer if we continue to regard this as a subset of crypto and look at it carefully before we give it any specialist position.

I understand the need for these regulations, but I am terribly conscious that the Government’s thinking in shaping all this has been much impacted by its membership of the joint UK-US Transatlantic Task Force for Markets of the Future. That has been guided and driven by the Trump Administration’s desire to use financial instruments as a means of extraterritorial control. We see this most obviously with trade tariffs—that is where Trump’s main speeches are and those are the instruments that he talks about. I understand that anybody who was at Davos and spent five minutes with US Treasury Secretary Bessent would have quickly understood that crypto and stablecoin are indeed instruments that, in the same way, offer great potential to advance US economic interests globally and for forms of what I think Mark Carney would probably have called financial coercion.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

The Minister’s reply was extremely helpful. One thing I am a little uncertain about relates to the Treasury, or the crypto assets unit, looking at the possible wrinkle or flaw that my noble friend Lord Holmes mentioned. If that led to a change in the SI, my understanding is that it would not come back here. That is because, in answer to the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, the Minister explained that this is a ground-breaking SI and after that, because it is important to be flexible, the FCA would make any changes. Assuming that is right, this is a plea from us for an update as to the progress of those discussions when they have taken place. My understanding from our shadow Minister in the other place was that discussions were ongoing on this matter, which he was extremely grateful for. It would be useful for us to know the final outcome of those. If a small change has to be made to the regulations, I am sure we will be supportive.

I am delighted to hear about financial education. I look forward perhaps to giving the Minister a cup of tea and learning a bit more about that on a future occasion because it goes beyond the framework of today’s discussion. On SMEs, it is not only that we want the Government to think about them, which they are obviously doing, but to make sure that the scam issue with SMEs is part of either the Government’s or the FCA’s thinking. It is an important matter for struggling small businesses in the country. We do not want that issue to go further. I am happy to agree to the passing of this statutory instrument and thank the Minister and the Treasury for all the work that they have done in this area.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I likewise thank the Minister and the team for the thoroughness of the answers. To underline the point raised by my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe, can the Minister say today clearly whether there are ongoing negotiations, which is our understanding, around this specific point or whether this SI will through unamended and that is the Government’s position? Secondly, do the Minister and the Government accept the issue of double regulation, which would be a consequence of these regulations, and the broader point around that? That is because of the roles that particularly the Bank of England and the FCA are playing in this process, with firms potentially finding themselves subject to double regulation at different stages of their development.

AI-generated Public Services

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Thursday 14th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

This of course is why the Government are committed to ensuring that everyone has affordable access to public services, whether online or offline. Departments are required, by the service standard, to provide support via alternative channels for all their online services to all users, including the disabled. That can be by phone, through face-to-face meetings, by letter or via web chat, which is important for the unsighted. The system of assessments is co-ordinated by the CDDO in the Cabinet Office, and these requirements cannot go on to GOV.UK without assurance secured.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my technology interests, as set out in the register. Does my noble friend agree that, wherever AI is used in public services, it should be labelled as such, so that everybody is aware of that fact? Similarly, wherever public citizen data is used, we should decide whether that is through opt-in or opt-out means. Further, public trust is essential to all deployments of new technology, including AI. Does my noble friend agree that one of the best ways to deliver public trust is to ensure that services are accessible and inclusive by design?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I very much agree that, to ensure public trust, you want services that are accessible by design. Coming from the retail sector, I have a slightly less rosy view of labelling. Like earlier data changes, AI is part of a continuum of technological change. The key thing is to have proper arrangements, such as, for example, the AI Safety Institute, which we have now set up following the Prime Minister’s AI Safety Summit at Bletchley Park with international partners. This is to make sure that we are aware of what is happening, because there are opportunities as well as risks to AI. I have a whole list of opportunities, which we can go through, but I would like to hear some more questions.

Elections Bill

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 1 & Report stage
Wednesday 6th April 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Holmes of Richmond]

26: Clause 9, page 12, line 21, after “vote” insert “independently”
Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment and the amendment in Lord Holmes’ name at page 12, line 22 reference the need for equipment provided for a polling station under rule 29(3A) of Schedule 1 to the Representation of the People Act 1983 to enable or facilitate independent and secret voting by voters who are blind or partially sighted or have another disability.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I will also speak to Amendments 27 to 30 and 34 to 37, which are all in my name. I thank my noble friend the Minister for the courtesy he showed in meeting me on a number of occasions, and his officials for the helpful discussions we have had since Committee. In particular, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, for co-signing my amendments and for his wisdom and support, which are well known and appreciated across the House.

In Committee, I set out three pillars that blind and partially sighted people—indeed, all people—should be able to expect when voting: to be able to vote inclusively, independently and in secret. I carry these three pillars through to Report; they are the key pillars anyone should be able to rely on when exercising the most essential and fundamental right in our democracy.

The suite of nine amendments that I set forward would transform Clause 9 and achieve these three pillars, not least for blind and partially sighted voters. The clause will be simply changed by the insertion of “independently” after “to vote”, and the insertion of

“(including in relation to voting secretly)”

after the words “rule 37”. If agreed, this would set out in statute a high standard that any equipment provided would have to meet for voting independently and in secret.

I have not changed some of the Government’s drafting, which refers to “such equipment” that “is reasonable”. “Reasonable” would apply were it in the Bill or not, by operation of equalities legislation in this country, so it is all the better for being up front in this clause. I have also not changed the wording

“enabling, or making it easier”.

My interpretation of this wording is that it is a two-limb test for the equipment to be provided. I ask my noble friend the Minister to confirm whether this is the Government’s view. I believe that is how “enabling” comes into play for people such as myself, who would not be able to vote at all without such equipment. For those people who potentially can vote, but for whom it is unreasonably difficult for a whole host of reasons, “making it easier” comes into play. I see these as two separate and important elements of the clause, which are not set out as a choice to either enable or make it easier. I would welcome my noble friend’s view on that element of the clause.

I also talked in Committee about the real need to avoid a postcode lottery, which is absolutely critical. Whether you vote in Kidderminster or Kew, Cambridge or Sheffield, a blind or visually impaired person—or indeed any disabled or non-disabled person—should be assured that there is provision that meets that standard. Prescription could be either of equipment or, as set out in my amendment to new paragraph (3B), around a standard, which I believe is far more than the minimum standard.

Alongside this, moving forward from my Amendment 20 in Committee, I have set out a number of provisions for the Electoral Commission on these needs: to issue statutory guidance; to consult relevant organisations that will have expertise to bring to bear for the guidance; for a duty to report on what has happened at elections on accessibility and provision; and, for the first time, a duty to put in place performance measures around accessibility for returning officers. Added to this is the need for a “have regard” duty on returning officers for this guidance. Again, I believe that “have regard” is a high statutory duty to achieve.

Amendments 34 to 37 are equally important. They would do exactly what I have just set out in the context of Northern Ireland local elections.

Taken as a whole, these nine amendments would transform Clause 9 and Schedule 6 in terms of inclusive, independent and in secret provision for blind and partially sighted voters. Crucially, if adopted, they would not only make voting inclusive, independent and in secret but mean that people would no longer find voting difficult, upsetting, humiliating or demeaning. Even more so, they should mean that people who perhaps have never voted, for reasons of lack of inclusion, or inability to vote independently or in secret, will be encouraged to come to the poll and exercise their democratic right. I believe these amendments will achieve that. I hope my noble friend the Minister will support them in full. I very much look forward to the debate and I beg to move.

[Lord Thomas of Gresford (LD)]

My Lords, I express my full support and that of the Liberal Democrats for the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, for producing this amendment. I congratulate him in particular on the success of his negotiations with the noble Lord, Lord True. I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord True. This is a very sensible way to deal with a problem that I had not appreciated until last year, when I was partly sighted. The amendment stresses that a person suffering from blindness or partial sight, or another disability, can vote independently and in secret, and will not have to face the humiliation to which the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, referred of having either to announce his vote publicly in a polling booth or to have someone else vote for him.

It was very wise for he and the Minister to agree that the Electoral Commission should give guidance to returning officers and that it would have to consult the bodies concerned—the RNIB and others—before specifying the sort of mechanisms which would enable this to happen. One of the good things about this is that it is not prescriptive and so it allows the mechanisms to improve over time, as new inventions come forward. In Committee, I talked about the pilot scheme going on in, I think, Norfolk, where not only was a frame put over the ballot paper but information was given to the voter by a recording as to what was on the ballot paper. That was an interesting pilot scheme, but maybe more things will develop in the future and the wisdom of these provisions will be recognised. Having agreed the report that must be returned by returning officers, that of course ensures that these provisions are carried out. I very much support this amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I infer from the debate that the RNIB has been spreading quite a lot of correspondence around your Lordships’ Chamber on these issues. I have not seen that specific letter myself, but we are acting in good faith here. The RNIB is a trusted and respected partner. I have told the House that there is a duty on the Electoral Commission to consult with it, and I said in my speech that we should move towards a future of more innovation. This was something that we were challenged on, quite rightly, by my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond in his first speech on this matter. That remains the Government’s hope and expectation. This is a conversation that is going to be carried forward, not by me at this Dispatch Box or by your Lordships but under the duties set out in the amendments, hopefully to produce a better and more accessible future for all voters. I repeat that I urge the House to accept these amendments.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who participated in this evening’s debate, and particularly my noble friend the Minister for the way in which he has responded to the nine amendments set down in my name.

I believe that legislation is important. Why would we be here if it were not? These amendments put forward a transformation for inclusion, independence and secret voting for blind and partially sighted and all disabled and non-disabled people. But as with all legislation, though it is important to pass it, this is but one step on a journey. If we pass the Bill post the Easter Recess, it will be incumbent upon the Government, the Electoral Commission, the association of EROs and civil society to come together to work to make this not only compliant or of a minimum standard but a positive experience for everybody at the polling booths.

Amendment 26 agreed.

Moved by

[Lord Holmes of Richmond]

27: Clause 9, page 12, line 22, after “37” insert “(including in relation to voting secretly)”
Member’s explanatory statement
See the explanatory statement relating to the amendment in Lord Holmes’ name at page 12, line 21.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Holmes of Richmond]

34: Schedule 6, page 119, line 17, after “vote” insert “independently”
Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment makes provision in relation to local elections in Northern Ireland corresponding to that made by the amendment in the name of Lord Holmes at page 12, line 21.

Elections Bill

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 2 & Committee stage
Wednesday 23rd March 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Holmes of Richmond]

144: After Clause 11, insert the following new Clause—
“Electronic voting
Within 3 months of the passing of this Act the Secretary of State must commission research into the desirability of electronic voting, including—(a) lessons to be learnt from similar systems in other countries,(b) the accessibility and inclusion benefits which may result from such a system, and(c) the use of block chain and distributed ledger technologies, with the aim of ensuring security and immutability of votes cast.”

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to move this amendment. I will speak to Amendments 144 and 209 in my name and I will not trespass on others’ eloquence when speaking to their amendments in this group.

Had I had a sharper pencil when I was drafting, I could have probably made Amendments 144 and 209 into the same amendment. I did not so they are not, but they are very closely linked. They speak to the opportunity that comes from the new technologies now available to us to potentially—it is only potential—use innovation to drive inclusion in our electoral process.

Amendment 144 is concerned with electronic voting. It is not suggesting that we move to electronic voting; it is simply suggesting that within three months of the Bill becoming an Act, it is something worth considering. The amendment talks about considering some international comparators. Estonia is particularly helpful in this instance, being probably the most digital state—certainly in Europe—and which has a very effective and efficient means of electronic voting. It goes so far, and I will come to more of the areas where we could go further in this country when I discuss Amendment 209.

Similarly, with electronic voting we can address many of the issues discussed on day two, particularly on Amendments 119 and 120, about accessibility and inclusion. Electronic voting potentially offers the opportunity for everybody to vote in an accessible and inclusive manner. There is also the consideration of what technology can be used. Certainly, distributed ledger technology offers a range of possibilities to assist with underpinning the integrity and security of electronic voting.

Amendment 209 takes a similar approach when it comes to the electoral register. This would be a step further than the situation in Estonia, because although in Estonia you can vote electronically via the electronic voting machine, there is not a system behind that which can trace the vote from the point of the voter registering in the first instance to being eligible to vote in that environment. If we had the electoral register put on a distributed ledger technology, we could have full traceability, immutability and, crucially, auditability of every move, of every vote—of every element of that system. You could permission particular actors to be the auditors of that. It would ensure far greater safety and security than the current system. It would be extremely difficult to drive an electoral fraud through such a system because you would have to engage so many actors to pull it off. The immutability of the technology would alert, in real time, all those permissioned people to be aware of it.

There is much more I could say on the technologies, but I will not. The crucial point is that if we looked, experimented and proof-of-concepted some of these technologies, we could potentially drive accessibility, inclusion, and the independence, secrecy, security, safety and integrity of every vote and, through that, the entire electoral process in the UK.

Crucially, these amendments are not asking for revolution, transformation, that we move to e-voting, or to an electoral register based on a distributed ledger technology platform. They are simply suggesting that there is something in these technologies that it is worth the Government considering and experimenting with and proofing some of their concepts. I look forward to my noble friend the Minister’s thoughts and response. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

Security is not as necessary for that as it would be for voting.

Amendment 150 from the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, would require the Government to ask the Electoral Commission to make proposals on how to facilitate the participation of overseas electors in parliamentary and local government elections while maintaining the security of the election process. I highlight the fact that British citizens resident abroad who are registered as overseas electors are not currently permitted to vote in local elections, though they may participate in parliamentary elections. Overseas electors are, by definition, more likely to be directly affected by decisions made in the UK Parliament than by decisions made by local government. For example, decisions on foreign policy, defence, immigration, or pensions may have a direct impact on British citizens abroad. The Government have no intention to change the franchise for local elections in this way.

In a similar vein, Amendment 151, tabled by the noble Baroness, would require the Government to consult on the possibility of introducing digital ballots for overseas electors within six months of the Bill passing. Ballot papers are printed on specific papers with security markings on them as a measure to prevent fraud. This cannot be replicated when printing on home printers and it would raise concerns as to the secrecy and security of the ballot if such measures were removed. Furthermore, the votes of overseas electors could then be easily distinguishable at a count if, for example, they were printed on different paper. That cannot be appropriate. As such, the Government cannot support the introduction of a “print and return” system for ballot papers.

On a wider interpretation of “digital ballots”, the Government hold the position that, at present, there are concerns that electronic voting by any means is not suitably rigorous and secure and could be vulnerable to attack or fraud. Due to these concerns, the Government could not support any alternative online voting option for overseas electors. This consultation, therefore, would be a poor use of time and resources.

The provisions in the Bill will enable overseas electors to remain registered for longer with an absent vote arrangement in place ahead of elections. The registration period for overseas electors will be extended from one year to three years. Additionally, electors will be able to reapply or refresh their absent vote arrangements as appropriate at the same time as renewing their registration. We are also introducing an online absent vote application service allowing electors registered in Great Britain, including overseas electors, to apply for a postal or proxy vote online. It is anticipated that an online service will alleviate some of the pre-existing challenges for electors and electoral administrators, by reducing the need to rely on manual processes. In addition to benefiting citizens, these changes will benefit electoral administrators by reducing workloads during busy electoral periods.

Additionally, the Government have already improved the postal voting process for overseas electors registered in Great Britain by working with Royal Mail and the British Forces Post Office to expedite dispatch abroad and funding the use of the international business response licence which expedites the return of ballot packs from overseas in a large number of countries, as well as covering any postage costs that might otherwise be incurred.

In summary, the Government have already taken steps to improve voting methods for overseas electors, without risking the integrity of the ballot, and will not consider these amendments. I urge that the amendment is withdrawn.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I have the greatest respect for the Minister, but that was an extraordinarily disappointing response. The amendments merely asked the Government to consider these areas, but the response was, “We will not”. From the Minister’s response, we would take it that the current electoral system is without difficulties or problems. The intervention from the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, was germane, because one could register online with whatever means one chose, with no real checks. It probably boils down to still messing around with gas bills as some kind of proof of identity, but where is the quality of that? Nowhere. At this stage, I will withdraw the amendment, but I have to say that that was an extraordinarily poor response.

Amendment 144 withdrawn.

Elections Bill

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 1 & Committee stage
Wednesday 23rd March 2022 Lords Chamber

The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, said that he introduced this as a probing amendment, but I put a proposition to your Lordships’ House. Our membership has an average age of 71 years. Would it not be a gift for us to put votes at 16 into the Elections Bill?

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 143, which has received such wholesome support from other Members of Your Lordships’ House. I can sum it up in four words: no taxation without representation.

I do not suggest for one moment that other contributions are not valid. The clause says nothing on that. I do not suggest anything to the wider debate; that has been well laid out. It is a clause set out in extremely simple terms on an incredibly specific point: the disfranchised 16 to 18-year-olds who currently can work and go to war cannot vote for how those taxes are spent and cannot vote for the Government who send them to war. Nothing more, nothing less than that.

I do not decry wider issues; it is simply a point on that specific group of people which is currently disfranchised. The Minister may wish to consider one possible solution: taking the 16 to 18-year-olds out of taxation completely. Amendment 143 offers an alternative solution, where they can be represented. I accept entirely the point of the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, on the complexities in previous years, but what one can now do with digital tax and real-time tax data would overcome those points. It is a simple amendment for a specific group of people, and a cry which has gone through democracies for centuries: no taxation without representation.

[Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond. I would have pre-empted him, but I am so glad that I did not. With respect, some noble Lords wrongly anticipated an incredibly creative and clever probing amendment. He has made the point about no taxation without representation through Amendment 143. I would not like to see it on the statute book because I do not want to return to the link between property, earnings or wealth and the franchise, but he has made a brilliant point very succinctly and incredibly well.

I will not torture Ministers further with my views on this subject. I have tortured Ministers of both stripes with my support for votes at 16 for some years. The poor Minister was tortured a while ago by my noble friend Lord Adonis, who is not in his place. We rehearsed this, and I commend to the Committee that extensive debate that we had one Friday, three years ago or five minutes ago; I forget which. It was five minutes ago. I do not support votes at six. I accept that any age of majority is slightly arbitrary because people mature differently. We must pick an age in law.

I rather think that we should be coalescing around 16, not only for voting but for criminal responsibility. The disparity between suffrage and criminal responsibility, in addition to taxation, I find very troubling. The noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, made his point so well. Of course, taxation is not just for people who are earning and paying taxes. There are sales taxes and, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, said, people who are doing unpaid work and keeping families and small businesses going. However, Ministers have human rights too, and I would like them to get a comfort break and some supper quite soon.

Elections Bill

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 1 & Committee stage
Tuesday 15th March 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Holmes of Richmond]

20: After Clause 17, insert the following new Clause—
“The role of the Electoral Commission: accessibility of the vote
(1) Within 3 months of the passing of this Act the Electoral Commission must publish a plan to ensure the accessibility and inclusivity of every vote, including—(a) how such accessibility and inclusivity will be audited and assured, (b) examples of good practice on the part of returning officers from previous votes in terms of accessibility and inclusivity, and(c) what action will be taken if such accessibility and inclusivity is found not to have been delivered.(2) The Electoral Commission may revise the plan from time to time and publish any such revisions.(3) The Electoral Commission must have regard to the most recently published plan under this section in the exercise of its functions.”

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to begin day two of the Elections Bill, and to move Amendment 20 and speak to Amendments 120 and 122 in this first group. I give more than a nod to Amendment 119, but I shall not trespass on it—I shall leave it to the noble Baroness when she rises to speak.

I am grateful to my noble friend Lord True, the Minister, for the time he spent pre-Committee discussing some of the elements around accessibility. He has shown kindness and courtesy and given his time in all the meetings we have had to date. I am also grateful for all the briefing and support we have had, not least from the RNIB.

My three amendments address one simple issue: the accessibility, inclusivity, independence and secrecy of every vote cast. That is simple and straightforward and, I hope, achievable. I shall not give a Second Reading speech, but I shall just give two very brief examples of why I believe we need these amendments. The examples come from the testimony of blind people who, helpfully, got in contact with the RNIB. One person said that when they were voting, the booth was close to the queue and they had to say out loud to the person with them the candidate they wanted to vote for—and they heard from someone in the queue a loud sigh at their choice. Similarly, a second person said that they knew that the person helping them was of a different political persuasion. With the best will in the world, how could they know that that person had voted in the way they had asked them to? That is the purpose of the amendments. As we come to celebrate 150 years of the Ballot Act, the ability of all the electorate, not least blind and visually impaired people, to vote independently and in secret would seem to be something that all noble Lords would want to get behind.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, the Government’s desire and wish is that all people who wish to vote and have voting accessible to them will have the best provision that fits them individually. I note, if I may continue, that the amendment tabled by my noble friend Lord Holmes relates precisely to this point of the support that the Electoral Commission will provide for the policy. As I have said, the Government are working very closely with the commission in this area and we are confident that it will be able to support the policy in a way that benefits all disabled people. That said, I am therefore sympathetic to the desire behind my noble friend’s amendment. Having heard what other noble Lords said, I would welcome further discussion, with a view to coming to a shared position on the role of the commission during the Bill’s passage.

Finally, Amendment 122 would require the Government to conduct a competition to identify technological solutions to support disabled voters. As the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, said, this is a challenging and interesting idea. I would say that this is absolutely in the spirit of the policy. We want to promote innovation and development in this area—something that has been all too lacking in recent years. Although it is not something we would instinctively want to require legislatively, a tranche of measures will support the ongoing implementation of the policy. I remain open to further discussions in this space also.

In conclusion, I have welcomed the debate and, as I have noted, we share a joint aim to improve the accessibility of elections. Therefore, I look forward to continued discussion on how best this might be done. For the reasons outlined earlier, we cannot keep the specific prescribed equipment we have now in legislation—nor would we want to do this, as it is not the best way to support all disabled voters—but we recognise the concerns raised and the sentiments behind the amendment and I remain open to conversations between now and Report. With that undertaking, I hope my noble friend will feel able to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who participated in this afternoon’s debate. It is invidious to single out any noble Lord in particular, but in the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, we got a very helpful and detailed insight into some international comparators, which I hope my noble friend the Minister will find helpful as we go for further discussions and deliberations on this point.

There is something I should have mentioned at the start: in my excitement to get started I should have given my apologies for not having been able to speak at Second Reading due to a prior meeting. Also, at least as importantly, I should have paid my respects to the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, who kindly supported my amendment and is unable to be here in Committee due to a private engagement speaking to several groups of schoolchildren, which he is so brilliant at doing.

I say nothing on the cost point, but it seems pertinent to raise a universal principle to put on the record at this stage: if something, be it a product, a system or a process, is designed from the outset to be inclusive by design, generally there will be no additional cost incurred. Things become tricky only when we get into a situation of retrofit, trying to make good, trying to make inclusive post event. I just put that universal principle on the record. I am extremely grateful to my noble friend the Minister for his considered response, I look forward to further discussions between now and Report and certainly to returning to this issue on Report. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 20 withdrawn.

Money Laundering

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Wednesday 24th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate is right to raise the issues in the Pandora papers and the jurisdictions he refers to, but we are making steady progress in closing the tax gap. Indeed, we have closed it by nearly a third in the last 15 years. In 2005-06 it was estimated at 7.5% and in the last year, 2019-20, it was down to 5.3%. In the last 10 years we have collected some £250 billion that would have been lost if these measures were not in place.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my technology interests as set out in the register. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that it is time we got real about AML and KYC? Does he agree that we need a digital ID, not just for individuals but for corporate and other entities, and to further increase work on digital currencies, not least a potential Britcoin? If we did this, it would go at least some way towards “laundering out, safety and security in”, and “laundering out, social and economic growth enabled”.

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

My noble friend is right to be concerned about the vigilance we need to deploy in this area, because it is a fast-moving target. We are always reviewing the situation. In July this year we published a call for evidence, which closed only a few weeks ago, in October. We will respond by June next year, looking at the issues my noble friend raised.

UK Cash Network

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Monday 8th November 2021 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Holmes of Richmond]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have (1) to designate the United Kingdom’s cash network as Critical National Infrastructure, and (2) to introduce a Universal Service Obligation for the provision of cash.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and in doing so declare my technology interests as set out in the register.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office and the Treasury (Lord Agnew of Oulton) (Con)]

My Lords, designation of the United Kingdom’s critical national infrastructure is sensitive and as such is not made public. However, the Government have committed to legislating to protect access to cash and to ensure that the UK’s cash infrastructure is sustainable for the long term. The Government recently concluded a consultation setting out proposals for new legislation which seeks to ensure that people only need to travel a reasonable distance to pay in or take out cash.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, whether for the financial inclusion of individuals or the overall resilience of the UK economy, until we have high-speed reliable digital connectivity and high levels of universal digital inclusion, cash still matters, and it matters materially?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend; he is completely correct. It is worth pointing out as some reassurance that over 79% of adults over 65 have made a payment using contactless in the last year and 84% of adults over 65 have used online banking, so I think the digital revolution is spreading to all parts of our society.