Mayoral and Police and Crime Commissioner Elections, Recall Petitions and Referendums (Ballot Secrecy, Candidates and Undue Influence) Regulations 2023
Debate between Lord Hayward and Lord Jones
Lord Hayward (Con)
My Lords, I first thank the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, for his kind comments. As he knows, and as I think many others in the Chamber also know, he played a prime role in progressing the idea that we should seek counsel’s opinion from the Electoral Commission to establish clarity in relation to the law, to which I shall return in a moment.
In relation to the noble Lord, Lord Jones, I am reminded that in fact, the first time I ever cast a vote in person—I can say it in Welsh, but I am not sure I could spell it if Hansard asked me to check it—I voted in favour of Sunday opening. This was a referendum in Pembrokeshire at the time that I lived there. I will not go down the Welsh language route.
Lord Jones (Lab)
The first referendum was lost; the second was won. In the Marcher area on Sundays, you would see thirsty men queuing for a bus from Wales to Chester.
Lord Hayward (Con)
I thank the noble Lord for that intervention—it saved me from my attempt to speak Welsh.
Before I move on to one or two aspects of this, I seek clarification on what my noble friend the Minister said as he opened the debate: that is, that on page 51, the note refers to a series of different elections with regard to the application of the Ballot Secrecy Act. There is no reference to parliamentary elections but, as I understood it, he was confirming that the Ballot Secrecy Act would be included when it comes to the general parliamentary elections—I note that he is nodding in response to that, and I appreciate it.
As the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, said, the Ballot Secrecy Act was intended to establish free and fair elections, cover aspects of equality and give power to presiding officers to intervene where actions were inappropriate. In my time of progressing what was the first Private Member’s Bill from this House in four years to complete its passage and only the third in 15 years, I learned a lot about the processes that Private Members’ Bills go through in the House. It is tortuous, unnecessarily long and in some cases distinctly disadvantageous to the proposer of the legislation as regards the manner in which amendments from government are considered and the like. I suggest that either the effective second Chamber group of the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, should look at the way we operate, or some committee should do so. Even having navigated the way through the difficulties in the House, Bills from this House go to the bottom of the queue in the House of Commons, whereas Bills from the House of Commons go to the top of the queue in the House of Lords. It seems an unacceptable variation in the process; therefore there are several needs for change in relation to this.
The noble Lord, Lord Rennard, touched on the question of whether the Bill was necessary. As I indicated in the debate on 15 July last year, in which others here participated, it was unclear whether the officials’ advice that it was not necessary to pass my Bill or the Electoral Commission’s broad advice that it was necessary at that stage was a matter for question. Counsel’s opinion came down quite clearly in favour of a need to change the law. However, out of curiosity I would just like to know whether the Minister can say, now or at a later stage, at which point the officials in the department received the Electoral Commission’s guidance. It is relevant to the process of the Bill and the views expressed to Ministers, to officials and to others on the ministerial write-round. I will not go into great detail at this point about my concerns about the handling of that; I put them in writing to the Minister and have received a reply. I have been offered a meeting, which, as yet, has not been taken up. I understand, given the ill health of the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, and the circumstances of these SIs and so on, that things are necessarily delayed. However, I am concerned about the aspect not of the decision-making process but of the accuracy and consistency of the advice that has been given to Ministers on the ministerial write-round.