Northern Ireland Update

Lord Hay of Ballyore Excerpts

Tuesday 20th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, for her remarks. Direct rule is not a panacea or a solution—and, as she has already said, once the toothpaste is out of the tube it is very hard to get it back in. I can assure the House that the Prime Minister has been intimately involved in these ongoing discussions. Her commitment is without question and her actions of late have always been mindful of trying to deliver a sustainable Executive who will deliver for the individuals who live in Northern Ireland. Going forward from here, I do not doubt my right honourable friend the Prime Minister’s continued commitment and that she will continue to act in the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland to try to bring about a dialogue that delivers an outcome that works for them. I believe that is in the interests of all the parties there.

[Lord Hay of Ballyore (DUP)]

My Lords, I too welcome the Statement this afternoon. I also welcome the fact that Her Majesty’s Government are now to set a budget for Northern Ireland—especially to help our public services, which are going through a very difficult time. I heard the comment about an independent chair. However, knowing the politics of Northern Ireland and having been Speaker of an Assembly that lasted almost 10 years, I think that they would probably spend some time arguing over who that person might be—so I do not think we should add fuel to a very difficult situation.

At this moment in time, Northern Ireland is not in a good place. It gives me no pleasure to say that, so we all have to be careful with our words and actions while we see whether we can resolve the last remaining issue of the project. Does the Minister agree that political progress can be built only on an accommodation that can be supported by the whole community, and which is shared, fair and balanced? Despite the setbacks over the last few days, we as a party are determined to secure devolution for Northern Ireland. I say clearly in this House today that we will leave no stone unturned to try to resolve this issue. Can the Minister assure the House—and settle unionist nerves as well—that Dublin will not be involved in the internal affairs of Northern Ireland? The Minister needs to clarify that important point if we are to settle everybody down and get back to trying to resolve what I believe is the last remaining issue.

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hay, for his intervention. It is in the interests of all the people of Northern Ireland that we achieve good government. Now more than ever, good government will be delivered by devolution—by a functioning Executive—but at heart it will have to be delivered for Northern Ireland no matter what happens, because we cannot keep kicking the can down the road. The three-stranded approach will be at the heart of our ongoing discussions with all parties, but I am happy to confirm to the noble Lord that no joint approach to the administration of government between the United Kingdom and Ireland is on the cards.

Northern Ireland Budget Bill

Lord Hay of Ballyore Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 14th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hay of Ballyore (DUP)]

My Lords, first, I express outrage about the events that occurred at the weekend. As the noble Lord, Lord Browne, said, a viable device was left at the Omagh cenotaph—an appalling act carried out by evil people. In my own city of Londonderry there have been a number of shootings in the past few weeks. These incidents show that without political agreement in Northern Ireland, other people in Northern Ireland will fill the vacuum. That is the worrying trend in not getting political agreement in Northern Ireland. The history of Northern Ireland has been that if there is no political will to resolve the issues, other people feel they can resolve them through violence. It is an important point to make to the House.

I support the Northern Ireland Budget Bill. With the failure of the talks process, the Secretary of State had no option but to act in the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland in bringing forward a Budget before public services run out of money. If the current impasse continues, I believe there will be a greater initiative from London to get involved in the politics of Northern Ireland. It should be a warning to all our political parties in Northern Ireland—I have to say, especially to Sinn Fein. I know that to some people some of these issues seem simple. They are not. The bottom line is that we have a political party in Northern Ireland—Sinn Fein—which does not even recognise the very existence of the country. So that is where we are starting from, unlike in Scotland and Wales, where at least there is a political will to be part of the country and make it work. In Northern Ireland that is not the case, so that compounds the issue for my party in trying to come to an agreement.

To pick up on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, we are willing as a party to go the second mile in trying to resolve these political issues. Certainly, we will make a number of attempts to resolve these issues because we all want to see a fully restored Executive in Northern Ireland, where decisions can be made in the best interests of the whole community in Northern Ireland. That is our goal. We have always been a devolutionist party. We still want devolution to work in Northern Ireland but it takes all the parties committed to Northern Ireland to make that work. As a party, we have made it clear over and again that we are willing to break the current impasse. It is important to say that. We would form an Executive and continue negotiations in parallel, as the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, said earlier. We are prepared to do that. For many people in Northern Ireland, health, education and the economy are far more important than what Sinn Fein is arguing for when it comes to the Irish language.

I will say something about the Irish language in Northern Ireland. There are many groups in Northern Ireland which speak the Irish language and which have grown the Irish language, but which have not brought politics into the Irish language. For many years Sinn Fein has used the Irish language as a stick to beat unionists with. I think the fear from the broader unionist community is: what would Sinn Fein not do if it had an Irish language Act? When you ask Sinn Fein to spell out what an Irish language Act would mean, how it would be delivered on the ground and how it would work, it finds it very difficult. As the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said, the Irish language has been protected. A lot of money has gone to it, and rightly so, but one has to say that when it comes to an Act there is fear in the broader community and the unionist community about what it all really means. We are dealing with a different situation from that of the Welsh and Scottish languages, As I keep saying, we have a political party in Northern Ireland that wants to use language for its own aim: to create a problem for another community. That is our greatest fear in these negotiations.

We all want a shared future in Northern Ireland; we all wish very much to achieve that and believe it can happen. When I look back over a number of years at the personal sacrifices made by so many to get devolution up and running—many people who are in the House at this time, and those outside it—it is sad that it could be coming to an end. I do not say that with any willingness. We want devolution to work for Northern Ireland and an Executive to deliver for all the people of Northern Ireland. That is still our aim. I keep saying to the House that, yes, we will go the second mile as a party to try to achieve that, but there is only so much that we as a party can do in that process to make it happen.

I welcome the Minister to his position this evening and I want to come to the Budget itself. I see within it that the Executive’s office, which is not functioning at the moment, has had a 32% increase in its budget. Can the Minister explain how that has happened? The noble Lord, Lord Empey, raised that as well. The Minister will know that there is cross-party support for the Hart report’s recommendations on historical institutional abuse in Northern Ireland. I understand that the leaders of the five main parties in Northern Ireland have written to the head of the Civil Service to try to move that issue forward. Having spoken to the victims, it is sad that it cannot move forward with the head of the Civil Service, because the letters went to him. It was thought that he could act to try to resolve the issue and implement payments for those victims.

I very much support the Bill before the House. I hope that by the time we speak in this House again, we will have devolution up and running in Northern Ireland for all of the people there.

Northern Ireland: Political Developments

Lord Hay of Ballyore Excerpts

Tuesday 28th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

I do not want to speculate on what might happen afterwards. Our focus is on the talks that we want to hold in the hours and days ahead.

[Lord Hay of Ballyore (DUP)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement but I have to say that it is extremely disappointing that an Executive in Northern Ireland has not been formed so that eventually we could have a strong and stable government. We see former Secretaries of State here in this House. These are complex issues and they have been challenging parties in Northern Ireland for about 20 years. Sometimes there is a belief among Peers that these issues have been around for only the past five or 10 years. That is not the case, they go back 20 years. However, there is an opportunity for the Prime Minister to get involved. I know that she has been actively involved behind the scenes, but I think that her presence in Northern Ireland at this time would help the process. The Prime Minister had agreed to visit the other regions of the United Kingdom before she triggers Article 50, so I would ask the Minister whether the Prime Minister still intends to come to Northern Ireland before doing so. I think that such a visit could help the process. Her presence in Northern Ireland would do that.

[Lord Dunlop]

I do not want to repeat what I have said already about the Prime Minister’s involvement and I am afraid that I am not privy to her forward diary, so I cannot answer the noble Lord’s question directly.

Northern Ireland Assembly Election

Lord Hay of Ballyore Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

I thank the noble Lord. Certainly, the Government absolutely recognise the unsatisfactory nature of the current state of affairs. As I said earlier, we pay tribute to the work that the PSNI and the Armed Forces have done over the years in creating the conditions in which the peace process could develop, and of course the work will continue. It is very important to build a consensus. It is a high priority for the Secretary of State to bring about reform that brings about a fairer and more balanced and proportionate system for examining and dealing with the issues of the past. We will continue to do that. However, that is why—I come back to this point—we need to work so hard to get stable devolved institutions back functioning. The Stormont House agreement provided a framework. We believe that the legacy institutions set out in that agreement provide the basis for that fair, balanced and proportionate way forward on legacy issues.

[Lord Hay of Ballyore (DUP)]

My Lords, I too welcome the Statement. I have to say that it is a sad day for Northern Ireland. Many of us in this Chamber worked hard over a number of years to get where we are in Northern Ireland. No one in this Chamber should underestimate the huge challenge faced by our politicians in Northern Ireland after these Assembly elections in trying to put a power-sharing Government together in Northern Ireland. I want to tease out an issue from the Minister. In the Statement, the Secretary of State said:

“Once the campaign is over, we need to be in a position to re-establish strong and stable devolved government in Northern Ireland”.


Those are fine words. However, I think that that will be much harder to achieve because I believe that the election results will reflect a similar position to the one we have today. The demands of Sinn Fein may be very difficult for any of our politicians in Northern Ireland to meet. On this occasion, the Northern Ireland Office Secretary of State went to elections. I can understand why he did so but the next time round I hope that it will not be a case of having elections. It is all right talking to and meeting the parties, but what plans are the Government bringing forward to try to resolve this issue? Up until now, I have seen nothing. It was probably an easy option for the Secretary of State to go to elections. On the next occasion, it will not be an easy option. I ask the Minister, with great respect, what plans will the Government bring forward to the parties with their own ideas on solving this problem?

[Lord Dunlop]

I thank the noble Lord. I say in reply to his question that the Government can have ideas but fundamentally this is about the relationship between the two main governing parties in the Executive. Primarily, they need to sit down round the table, work through the issues and put together a viable proposition for governing in a devolved situation in Northern Ireland. The UK Government will play their part to facilitate that.

Northern Ireland: Political Developments

Lord Hay of Ballyore Excerpts

Tuesday 10th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

I note what the noble Lord says about the change in the method of selecting the First and Deputy First Ministers, and I acknowledge his long-standing position on this. However, as the Secretary of State made clear in the other place, the focus now must be on exploring whether there is any basis for resolving the current issues. There is huge support in Northern Ireland for devolution. The point about devolution—a point I have made in this House before—is that when powers are devolved to institutions, we need to support those institutions in discharging their responsibilities. The renewable heat incentive scheme is a fully devolved matter and we believe that the solution to that—with of course the support of the Secretary of State and the Government—needs to come from within the Northern Ireland institutions.

[Lord Hay of Ballyore (DUP)]

My Lords, I also welcome the Statement by the Minister. All this started with the renewable heat incentive scheme in the Assembly. But this is not about playing the blame game anymore. I welcome the continuing partnership between the Government, the Labour Party and the opposition parties on how we might resolve this issue, because there is no doubt that it needs to be resolved.

Unfortunately, in Northern Ireland it is not about the renewable heat initiative any more. As the former Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland will know, this will grow legs—and I understand that other issues are now coming into the melting pot. They, too, will have to be resolved. The issue is being compounded by other political parties and individuals in and around this. The only way forward is for the politicians of Northern Ireland to come together and resolve the matter once and for all—because here we are again, and we will be here again next year.

I remember the early 2000s; the Assembly fell three times in almost four years when the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists were in charge. So let us stop the blame game and get to a point at which, eventually, all these issues—legacy issues and current issues—can be resolved. Will the Minister tell us whether there are any further initiatives or measures that the Government can bring to the table to resolve this? We have only one opportunity to resolve this and Assembly elections will not do it. We will come back after an election with the same situation, but worse. The Government must redouble their efforts to bring further measures to the table.

[Lord Dunlop]

I am grateful to the noble Lord. I am sure he is absolutely right that, in this situation, we want the parties working together. The Secretary of State is very focused on doing that over the coming period. The noble Lord opposite made the suggestion that the Secretary of State might issue a formal invitation to a round table, and I am sure that initiatives of that sort will be considered by the Secretary of State as he continues his discussions with the parties.

Northern Ireland (Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan) Act 2016 (Independent Reporting Commission) Regulations 2016

Lord Hay of Ballyore Excerpts

Monday 7th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, it is impossible to forget the widespread feelings of shock and outrage which were evoked by events in Northern Ireland in the summer of last year. They demonstrated, in the most stark and vivid manner, the continuing malign presence of paramilitary organisations 17 years after the signing of the Belfast agreement. The sheer extent of paramilitary malignity was most vividly illustrated for us by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, in his powerful and moving remarks a little while ago.

Some of us felt last year, and still feel, that it was unfortunate, to put it mildly, that the Independent Monitoring Commission, which could have continued to play a most useful role, had been wound up in 2011. It is so much easier to adapt an existing institution to deal with fresh challenges and difficulties than to establish an entirely new one, particularly when two sovereign Governments then have to reach a fresh agreement between them. But of course no sense of regret for what is past should inhibit full-hearted support for the new Independent Reporting Commission. It will have a most important contribution to make in strengthening the still fragile peace of Northern Ireland, which matters above all else.

Some important questions have been raised by noble Lords this evening, and I would like to raise three more. First, the fresh start agreement, signed a year ago this month, states that it,

“places fresh obligations on Northern Ireland’s elected representatives to work together on their shared objective of ridding society of all forms of paramilitary activity and groups”.

One year on, how much progress has been made in advancing these fresh obligations?

Secondly, will the Independent Reporting Commission have all the legal advice that it will need to ensure that its work does not,

“have a prejudicial effect on any proceedings which have, or are likely to be, commenced in a court of law”,

in the words of the agreement signed in September between the two Governments?

Thirdly, when will the remaining regulations subject to the negative procedure be laid? The appropriate period will need to elapse before they become law, which presumably means that they may not have been passed when the commission is established early next year, as my noble friend Lord Dunlop indicated in his remarks at the outset of this debate, although the Explanatory Memorandum issued with the regulations gives next month—December—as the date of establishment.

I hope that the first report of the commission will be forthcoming as soon as possible. We need to be clear that a successful working partnership has been forged between its four members. We need to be clear about the specific aims and objectives that the commission has set for itself in the first phase of its existence. Such matters need to be kept before this Parliament. Under the old Stormont regime, devolution in Northern Ireland meant indifference to the Province’s affairs here at Westminster; that must never ever happen again.

[Lord Hay of Ballyore (DUP)]

My Lords, first, I apologise to the Minister for not being here at the start of this debate. I see this very much as a further development of the political process in Northern Ireland. This can only help. I know that the Executive are dealing with some very difficult issues at the moment. I would hope that these provisions will help them to deal with those issues a lot sooner.

We should put on record the previous Secretaries of State who have worked tirelessly to get where we are in Northern Ireland today. We need to recognise that we have had almost nine years of fairly stable government; okay, there have been a few bumps along the way—some of them fairly serious—but they have managed to stay together. I think that we have a stable Government and a stable Assembly in Northern Ireland now. That is a huge achievement compared to where we came from 20, 25 or 30 years ago. We have all moved on in Northern Ireland. You have only to look at the pledge of office used by Ministers in the Assembly, and by Assembly Members, which is set out in Schedule 4 to the Northern Ireland Act. All this is moving Northern Ireland forward.

This all comes out of what was agreed by the political parties on 17 November in A Fresh Start. I hope that we will now have a commission which will report independently—“independently” is very important. The objective is of course to help end paramilitary and criminal activity in Northern Ireland. I do not believe that this commission can do that on its own; there has to be a collective approach from politicians, policing and the southern Government to bring this activity to an end. I know that some Peers have said, rightly, that it has been 20 years and we still have paramilitary organisations and criminality. They are almost leeches to their own communities; they beg from their own communities and create major problems there. We have to remember that they are happy enough to keep their own community in the way that it is because that helps their cause. For me, it was never about when they would leave the stage; for me, it is how they leave the stage that is vitally important.

I believe that we have paramilitaries who genuinely want to come into the democratic process. We should try to help to bring them in. The police and the justice system in Northern Ireland should deal with those who do not want to come into the process. When you talk to paramilitaries, there is a desire to leave it behind and come in. It is about how we get them in and deal with them, and then how they eventually leave the stage, but they must be part of the solution in Northern Ireland. We cannot isolate them totally and absolutely. Yes, as noble Lords have said, it is 20 years but that is 20 years too long. We need to find a way of dealing with this issue. They are a total curse in Northern Ireland. I believe that on some occasions they hold back our politicians who want to move forward even quicker. The legacy issue in Northern Ireland is a major issue. We must try to resolve that issue. I am hearing reasonably good soundings that they are moving forward on it. If it can be resolved, that will be better for the future of Northern Ireland and for all its people, so let us move forward. This is good news here tonight.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his statement and I, too, apologise for missing the opening. I very much welcome the regulations relating to the setting-up of the Independent Reporting Commission. Does the Minister agree that good progress has been made in Northern Ireland since the signing of the fresh start agreement? A long list of issues has been agreed and all are being progressed and implemented. The situation in Northern Ireland today is much more positive and, as we have heard, there has been a long period of stable government.

However, the threat posed by paramilitaries from both the republican and the loyalist sides, unfortunately, still exists. Only last night, we witnessed the murder of Mr Jim Hughes at Divis flats. This has to be condemned by all right-minded persons. All parties must work together to rid society of all paramilitary activity.

I look forward to the Independent Reporting Commission beginning its work and to receiving its first report, which I trust will prove to be an important arm in helping to bring an end to all forms of paramilitarism in Northern Ireland, which for far too long has been a scourge to law-abiding communities in Northern Ireland. I very much hope that the next step in securing long-lasting peace is for all parties to agree a way forward to finding a solution for dealing with the legacy of the Troubles.

Northern Ireland (Welfare Reform) Bill

Lord Hay of Ballyore Excerpts

Tuesday 24th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hay of Ballyore (DUP)]

My Lords, first, I wish the First Minister of Northern Ireland, Mr Robinson, very well in his retirement, which I hope will be long, and I thank him for the legacy that he has left to Northern Ireland. I also thank the Secretary of State very much for her patience—in Northern Ireland, you need patience on many issues—and I thank Charles Flanagan TD, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade in Dublin. Those two people worked extremely hard to get to where we are on this agreement. I welcome the fact that we have the Bill before the House this evening.

This has been a challenging time for all the political parties in Northern Ireland, and especially for the people of Northern Ireland. After 10 weeks of talks, a way forward was agreed on many issues. It was not easy for some of the political parties in Northern Ireland to come to that agreement. However, as other noble Lords said, they failed to break the deadlock over the legacy issues and, of course, the past. One issue that continually comes up to knock the political process in Northern Ireland is the past. As some noble Lords have said, we have long memories in Northern Ireland.

The agreement secures sustainability, especially for the Northern Ireland budget. There is an urgency to this legislation: Northern Ireland continues to lose money back to the Treasury until this Bill is passed. It is £2 million a week, as my noble friend Lord Browne said, which is a huge drain on the resources of the Northern Ireland Executive. Over the last four years there have been attempts to resolve the welfare question, which has contributed to the political crisis in Northern Ireland, especially in the Executive’s finances. However, I believe that financial sustainability of the Executive is crucial for the success of devolved government in Northern Ireland, and that requires implementation of welfare reform. It certainly looked likely that this very issue would bring down devolved institutions in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland could not continue to lose money every week because it did not implement welfare changes.

As the Minister said, the Bill does not of course affect the legislative competence of the Northern Ireland Assembly. It is very important that that is put on the record. The Assembly can still agree to pass welfare legislation. The Government here at Westminster can legislate for it as well. It is important that that is put on the record, too. I know that the noble Lord’s plan to ask Westminster to do what Stormont failed to do and pass a welfare reform Bill for Northern Ireland is controversial in Northern Ireland, and here as well, but time is running out for the Assembly. We cannot afford to waste any more time on this issue. The alternative was to allow devolution to fall, with possible direct rule from London. At one point I remember talking to people back home who said, even within the corridors of the Northern Ireland Assembly, that that was a very strong possibility. There was a serious worry that direct rule would be coming from London. The stalemate that existed had not only financial costs but a credibility cost for the institutions in Northern Ireland. Their credibility was totally and absolutely called into question.

As I said, the last few months in Northern Ireland have been very difficult but it is time to implement the agreement. The document A Fresh Start is a milestone in the history of Northern Ireland. We should not be too negative about what we have achieved in Northern Ireland over the last 20 to 25 years. All our politicians have travelled a huge journey. Some are still travelling that journey and we should give them the support that they need at this minute in time to implement this agreement.

Northern Ireland

Lord Hay of Ballyore Excerpts

Wednesday 18th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

I note what my noble friend has said. His point was also raised in the other place earlier today and the Minister said that if there were concerns about the way in which the arrest happened, the matter should be taken up with the chief constable.

[Lord Hay of Ballyore (DUP)]

My Lords, as a Member of this House from Londonderry who lived through some of the difficult years in that city, it is important to say that we have now moved on to a better place. Sometimes when an atrocity such as this once again raises its ugly head, we forget where we have come from. I believe that in the city of Londonderry we have moved on from issues that were difficult many years ago. I agree that we should never forget the sacrifices of the security forces in protecting the people of Northern Ireland through a bloody terrorist campaign.

There was a clear belief when the Prime Minister apologised to the families of the victims of Bloody Sunday that that would more or less draw a line under it and we could all move on. Obviously that has not happened. I agree that no one should be above the law and that the police should be allowed to do their job irrespective of who the person may be.

Does the Minister agree that the new Stormont agreement announced yesterday is an important turning point for Northern Ireland? There have been five attempts to resolve the legacy issues of the past but, for whatever reason, all political parties in Northern Ireland are finding it difficult to get a resolution to the past. While we cannot get that resolution at this minute in time, it creates problems in legacy cases such as this and in dealing with the past. Will the Government and the parties continue to try to resolve this issue because, if we can, we can move Northern Ireland forward to a better place?

[Lord Dunlop]

The agreement that was reached yesterday was a significant achievement. I am sure the whole House will wish to congratulate all the Northern Ireland parties on reaching that deal. It has broken an impasse and created the opportunity to develop devolved institutions that work for the people in Northern Ireland. As the Minister in the other place said, it is a matter of regret that legacy was not part of the deal. We must find ways to take these matters forward and give victims and their families closure and see justice served. The Government stand ready to play their part in that process.

Northern Ireland: Paramilitary Groups

Lord Hay of Ballyore Excerpts

Tuesday 20th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

I echo what was said about the reviewers. They bring great experience and integrity to the job they were given. The links between PIRA and Sinn Fein are long-standing and well known. As I said, I do not wish to speculate on further detail beyond what is in the assessment.

[Lord Hay of Ballyore (DUP)]

My Lords, I also welcome the Statement. It certainly gives us further insight into paramilitary activity in Northern Ireland and its structures, more than anything else. Some of us in this House certainly did not need a report to tell us that paramilitary structures are still very much there in Northern Ireland. Also, it is important that we say it clears the chief constable when he said a number of weeks ago that paramilitary organisations still exist and the IRA were involved in the murder of Mr McGuigan. It is important that that is repeated.

On the issue that the noble Baroness, Lady Blood, raised, I have to say that we do give them a platform if we describe them as “paramilitary organisations”. We need to get away from that. They are criminals and should be dealt with by the PSNI. I have some worries whether the PSNI has the proper resources to deal with the criminality, which is not just right across Northern Ireland but right across the island of Ireland, on both sides of the border. I have said for some time that there are issues in and around resources for the PSNI. It is something that the Government should look at seriously.

On the other issue that the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, raised, I would go much further. We have seen the report today and we have heard the Statement. I have believed for some time that the criminality and the money made from criminality goes to political parties. We should say that. We have a political party on the island of Ireland that is almost the richest anywhere in Europe. It is the second-richest party in Europe. That is something that the Government ought to look at and continue to look at: whether that criminality and those unearned gains are going to a particular party.

I ask the Minister: do the Government see a further role for this panel in Northern Ireland, as we try to move on the political process? I hope that the Statement helps the political process to move on. That is important.

[Lord Dunlop]

I thank the noble Lord. With regard to his question on whether I see a role for the review panel, I am not certain about that. However, it is certainly true to say that, as part of the talks process, there needs to be discussion and agreement over a verification mechanism and a broader strategy to see paramilitary groups disband once and for all.

Northern Ireland: Political Developments

Lord Hay of Ballyore Excerpts

Tuesday 15th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

Our priority is getting the parties round the table because unless they are round the table we cannot have talks that will make progress. The priority of both Governments—and any influence that the US Government can bring to bear—is focused on getting all the parties round the table.

[Lord Hay of Ballyore (DUP)]

My Lords, I, too, very much welcome the Minister’s Statement on the current political crisis in Northern Ireland. I also welcome the statement to the House of the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, to clarify the Labour Party’s position. In the last few days the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has been meeting the five main political parties in Northern Ireland to find a way forward—in her own words, so that “intensive talks” can take place to address all the outstanding issues. Are we any closer to those talks taking place so that we can address all the issues, or are there still issues that need to be addressed by the individual parties to try to get them round the table?

Does the Minister also agree that if the institutions in Northern Ireland are to function effectively, paramilitary activity needs to be addressed once and for all? The island of Ireland is awash with criminality which has been going on for many years—both in the north and in the south. It is almost 20 years since the signing of the Good Friday agreement, yet we still have paramilitary organisations in Northern Ireland that are still active, still killing and still involved in criminal activity.

In his Statement, the Minister talked about some sort of IMC body. I think we are in a different place and at a different time for which we need a different body. My only worry is that the ideas seem to have to come from the five main political parties—regarding the format, the powers and the terms of reference that such a body might have. Addressing that matter would be very useful because I can see it, too, turning into a political football in Northern Ireland. Would it not be better if the Minister and the Government would lead on and address those particular issues?

[Lord Dunlop]

I agree very much with what the noble Lord said about criminal paramilitary activity. As I have said previously, I do not think it would be helpful to provide a running commentary as talks proceed. The Secretary of State said in the other place that she will hold further talks tomorrow. We must see what transpires from those.