Water Bill

Debate between Lord Harrison and Lord De Mauley

Tuesday 25th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harrison (Lab)]

My Lords, I must apologise to the House and to my own Front Bench for bringing this matter before them not in Committee but on Report, and for not having had the opportunity fully to brief them. However, as my head hurts trying to understand the amendment that I am about to move, perhaps I may explain why I am in this current state.

The issue is this. As I understand it, water connections made through fire suppression systems—which, in the form of sprinklers, have become the new kid on the block, as it were, in recent years—are now classified as non-domestic supply. That in turn means that the water companies, which are exercising discretion on the matter, can attach conditions which are deleterious to our objective of promoting access to water supplies for the purpose of firefighting.

Indeed, there is a patchwork of reactions from water companies across the land. I understand that some companies, because they charge the connection out to some other supplier, charge as much as £3,000 a time, whereas in Scotland, for instance, where we are told that it is a matter of very few coppers to attach the system to the water sprinkler system, no such charges are made.

The problem has been growing over the years and was in part dealt with by a protocol signed off by the then Minister, my noble friend Lord Knight who, unfortunately, is not in his place this evening. That protocol tried to get a balance between the water companies and ensuring the water supply for the purposes of fire suppression. Time has passed since that 2004 protocol, which is why I seek to change Section 57 to ensure that the legitimate use of water to fight fires is clarified and made absolutely apparent.

In doing so, I must thank the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, for agreeing to meet me and some of my colleagues recently to get their advice. I should be very grateful if, in response to this probing amendment, we could have a reply that gives some hope that this matter, which we had hoped to have dealt with in the House of Commons by Dan Rogerson, can be dealt with here—albeit that it is a matter that has been brought late into the games.

I should also say that the cost of hydrants, which are available outside buildings to be accessed to suppress fires, are not apparent in the same way as some water companies are now charging those who want access to a sprinkler system. We now have a body of evidence that shows that the fixing of sprinkler systems has been successful in suppressing fires. The problem that we now have is that sometimes people resile from fitting sprinkler systems. I would be very grateful for any hope that the Minister can give me that this could be dealt with sympathetically, and how.

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, I am so grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Harrison, for tabling the amendment and bringing this important matter to the attention of your Lordships. I well know that the noble Lord is an active member of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Fire Safety & Rescue. He kindly brought the honorary secretary of the group, Ronnie King, to see me last week so that I could hear more about this matter, and I am very grateful for that opportunity. Mr King was a senior firefighter and has now dedicated himself to trying to save even more lives by campaigning on issues of fire safety. He wants more people to install sprinklers. He wants the barriers that might stand in the way of the installation of more sprinklers to be knocked down. The amendment would result in fire suppression systems, known to most of us as fire sprinklers, being referred to explicitly in legislation as water for firefighting.

I understand that a key driver behind the amendment is the problems that can arise between fire sprinkler installers and water undertakers when connections for fire sprinkler systems are required. Those problems include undertakers requiring meters to be installed on the connections, smaller connection sizes than would be ideal for the fire sprinkler system and requirements for internal storage.

Badgers

Debate between Lord Harrison and Lord De Mauley

Tuesday 11th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, to put things in context, we should bear in mind that in 2011-12 the total cost to the Government of controlling the disease in England will be about £90 million but that, without further action, the disease will cost the taxpayer approaching £1 billion over the next decade. In terms of the costs, a large proportion of which are borne by farmers, £750,000 was spent on surveying costs, which gave us the more accurate estimate of badger populations, £300,000 on Natural England’s costs and approximately £95,000 as part of humaneness monitoring.

[Lord Harrison]

My Lords, given that 92% of the people of this country are against the proposed cull, what conversations has the Minister had with his partners in the European Union who have successfully introduced vaccination?

[Lord De Mauley]

The noble Lord raises an important point. I can only repeat an extract from the report following the visit to the UK in March 2012 of the EU Commission’s bovine tuberculosis sub-group of the task force for monitoring animal disease eradication:

“It is however of utmost importance that there is a political consensus and commitment to long-term strategies to combat TB in badgers as well as in cattle … There is no scientific evidence to demonstrate that badger vaccination will reduce the incidence of TB in cattle. However there is considerable evidence to support the removal of badgers in order to improve the TB status of both badgers and cattle”.

Employment: Rural Employment

Debate between Lord Harrison and Lord De Mauley

Wednesday 5th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

Yes, my Lords. I will give more examples of how the Autumn Statement will benefit rural growth. We will extend small business rates relief for a further 12 months from 1 April 2013, benefiting more than 500,000 small businesses. We will devolve a greater proportion of growth-related spending to local areas from April 2015. We will provide further support to businesses and motorists, which my noble friend referred to, by cancelling the fuel duty increase that was planned for 1 January 2013, and we will defer the 2013-14 increase to 1 September 2013. We will ensure that businesses—particularly small businesses—can access finance and support.

[Lord Harrison]

Given that 98% of rural employment is not related to farming, will the Minister outline the strategy for encouraging small businesses in our towns, villages and hamlets by increasing broadband coverage and better transport links? In addition, has he thought of the idea of business advocates for the countryside to encourage the formation of small businesses?

[Lord De Mauley]

The noble Lord raises a very good point about broadband. I absolutely agree with him on that. The rollout of superfast broadband infrastructure is vital to boosting sustainable economic growth and creating jobs in rural areas. Online business, whether rural or urban, grow four to eight times faster than their offline counterparts. Broadband is a key government priority. We are working to deliver the best superfast broadband in Europe by 2015, backed by a £530 million government investment to support rural areas.