Detainee Issues

Debate between Lord Hannay of Chiswick and Lord Young of Cookham

Thursday 18th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

Perhaps it would help my noble friend if I refer to the specific paragraph in Sir Adrian’s letter. He said:

“It was argued in number of responses to the consultation that there should be a post-notification process for individuals who have been mistreated following a failure properly to apply any new guidance or principles. This would enable them to seek redress. Reprieve and Freedom from Torture, in a joint submission, made substantive representations regarding the UK’s international obligations in this regard”.


I will write to my noble friend when I have discovered the other part of Sir Adrian’s recommendations, which builds on the current position, but makes more explicit that there is now an obligation, if people come across mistreatment, to pass it up the chain. I recognise that the paragraph I just read out was not directly relevant to my noble friend’s question.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

The Minister has revealed the Government’s recent steep learning curve on extraordinary rendition, helped along the path by the activity of my noble friend Lord Tyrie. Do the Government now take the view that extraordinary rendition and what happens to people so rendered could bring anyone complicit in it within the scope of the International Criminal Court? That seems the common-sense conclusion from what they have found.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The noble Lord may be right. If it were an offence under the law just referred to, as Ministers are obliged by the Ministerial Code to abide by national and international law, they would be precluded from taking action that ran the risk of that breach.

European Union Referendum: Alleged Russian Interference

Debate between Lord Hannay of Chiswick and Lord Young of Cookham

Tuesday 19th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

If I may focus on the first part of the noble Lord’s question, which is about Russian involvement in covert activities, he may know that the Intelligence and Security Committee, on which two noble Lords sit, is currently investigating Russian involvement in the 2016 referendum and the 2017 general election. It makes sense to allow that important inquiry to be completed, and then we will have a clearer view of the impact, if any, of Russian involvement in the election, which is the subject of this Question. So far as Galileo is concerned, I commend the noble Lord’s ingenuity but I have listened to fellow Ministers give very adequate answers on Galileo and I will not attempt to rise to that level.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister say whether the Government are satisfied that the Electoral Commission has access to all the rather complex means—obviously, I do not want to go into intelligence matters in this House—that foreign Governments have to interfere in our affairs? Is the Electoral Commission really equipped to carry out that inquiry in all its aspects?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The noble Lord makes a very good point in that, obviously, it makes sense for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, not the Electoral Commission, to have overall responsibility for our relationship with Russia. It makes sense for the DCMS to have overall responsibility for “fake news” and for the Information Commissioner. It makes sense for the Cabinet Office to have overall responsibility for electoral law and a dialogue with the Electoral Commission. Where all these things come together, which I think is the noble Lord’s point, clearly, we need a collective view. It makes sense to await the outcome of the ISC inquiry that I mentioned a few moments ago, the DCMS inquiry into fake news that is currently under way, and the Electoral Commission inquiries into the referendum campaigns. When we have all that, we can stand back and see whether we have the right resources and the right information in the right place and come up with a collective view on the serious issue raised in the original Question.

Immigration Statistics

Debate between Lord Hannay of Chiswick and Lord Young of Cookham

Monday 12th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The noble Lord will recall that this issue was debated extensively by your Lordships when the then Higher Education and Research Bill went through this House. When the Bill left this House an amendment was carried to delete overseas students from the migration figures. When that legislation hit the statute book, that bit was omitted. In the meantime, the ONS will continue to follow the UN standard, which is to count anyone who is here for more than a year as a long-term migrant. That practice is followed by the USA, New Zealand, Canada and Australia. There is an impact on services if people stay here for longer than a year, and the ONS, which is independent, has decided to continue to use the United Nations definition.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

Does the Minister recognise that his description of the Bill that left this House was not entirely accurate? It required the Government to change not the statistics but the policy; and to stop treating students as economic migrants, not to stop counting them. Would he further recognise that defective statistical methods have been used to count students leaving after the end of their student visas—one of the false reasons the Government have used to justify their policy?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

It is not the case that the Government’s policy has deterred international students from coming to this country. According to the latest figures, study-related visas were up by 8% in 2017 to more than 220,000. The Government have made it absolutely clear that there is no cap on the number of genuine international students coming to this country—they are welcome. We are the second most popular destination after the United States for such students and roughly 40% of our overseas students now come from China, in a competitive market.

Brexit: Economic Impact

Debate between Lord Hannay of Chiswick and Lord Young of Cookham

Tuesday 18th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they stand behind the forecasts for the shortfall in the United Kingdom’s economic growth as a result of Brexit set out in HM Treasury Analysis: The long-term economic impact of EU membership and the alternatives, published in April.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, as the Chancellor has said, there will be some adjustment and uncertainty in the economy from the referendum decision. The progress and outcome of the negotiations will determine its nature, but we shall be pushing for the best possible deal for the United Kingdom. We are well placed to take advantage of the opportunities from Brexit and, as the Prime Minister has said, there is optimism about the future.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply, which I categorise as somewhere between equivocal and evasive. I asked him whether the Treasury stood by certain figures. Will he recognise that these figures showed a loss of GDP of 3.8% in the event of our leaving the European Union and having a single market outcome; of 6.2% if we merely had a free trade agreement; and of 7.5% if we fell back on the default option of WTO membership? Those are significant figures with significant gaps between them. Is it not about time that the Government told us a bit more about them and identified the impact on individual sectors of the economy, some of which, allowing for the nature of all averages, will be hurt much more by these changes than others?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I thank the noble Lord for prefacing his remarks with his customary diplomacy. It is important to recall exactly what the Treasury analysis did. It took as a baseline continued membership of the EU, and then tried to predict the impact on GDP of three scenarios: first, the Norway solution or EEA; secondly, the Canada option; and thirdly, the WTO option. The Government have subsequently made it clear that they are going not for any of those three options but for a bespoke option which will not necessarily parallel any of those. For that reason, there is no particular advantage in updating the analysis that the noble Lord referred to. As for what he said about sectors, that is an important issue, and work is going on in government departments on the impact of Brexit on particular sectors of the economy.