Bell Pottinger

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Young of Cookham

Thursday 7th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, the behaviour of Bell Pottinger in South Africa has been completely unacceptable. We support the investigations conducted by the Public Relations and Communications Association and Herbert Smith Freehills and the stark conclusions of their report. I want to put it on record that at no stage were Her Majesty’s Government in any way involved in its work in South Africa.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

I welcome that Answer but do the Government agree that, after running a pernicious and poisonously racist smear campaign in South Africa for the wealthy Gupta brothers, whom President Zuma has enabled to capture the state and bankroll his family and friends through corruption and cronyism, all Bell Pottinger’s work for British public bodies must be called in and reviewed? Since the respected former Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan has stated that the Guptas and Zumas have benefited from 6.8 billion rand of money laundering, can the Government investigate whether any British banks are involved and what action can be taken at a European level? Will the Minister agree to meet me about this?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for those questions. There are no contracts between the Government and Bell Pottinger. On the second point about money laundering, I have read the reports that I referred to in my original reply and there is no implication that there has been any money laundering or indeed any criminal activity. The company behaved unprofessionally and unethically. If the noble Lord has any evidence of money laundering, of course that should be investigated. We have some of the toughest money laundering regulations in the world, and earlier this year Deutsche Bank was fined £163 million for breaching those regulations. If there is any evidence of money laundering, of course we should look at it. I would not rule out at all a ministerial meeting with the noble Lord.

Pensions: Sale of Annuities

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Young of Cookham

Wednesday 19th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am grateful to the noble Lord. On the timing of the announcement, sometimes the market-sensitive nature of an announcement means it has to take place at a specific time, quite often when the Stock Exchange is not open. So far as those who are disappointed are concerned, the information available to the Government is that only 5% of those with annuities would be likely to have taken up this offer had it gone ahead, so roughly 95% will not be affected by the announcement. It is independent of any level of interest rates; it is not a function of quantitative easing or anything like that. I see that Steve Webb, to whom the noble Lord referred, has said that the decision is “disappointing” but “understandable”, implying that he goes along with it.

The final point about information is a good one and I will see what we can do to let people know. I suspect that many will have read the newspapers and are aware that this option will no longer be available.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

Is not the problem that the Government have failed all along to provide a properly regulated, publicly controlled vehicle to satisfy the needs of those with very small annuities—often, by the way, ones that do not provide protection either for spouses or against inflation—who want to exchange them for a cash sum that they can repay debts with or provide for their partners? Now we have the worst of both worlds, being stuck in this policy impasse.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I think the noble Lord is suggesting that, rather than the private sector providing an option for these annuitants, the Government should have provided it. That was never the proposal and he will know that, along with the other pension freedoms, they are operated by the private sector. Those who opt out of their pension to use the other options do so without resorting to a government scheme.