Post Office Appointments: Ministerial Responsibility

Debate between Lord Hain and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 7th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

I am sorry, but the Minister has not answered the question from the noble Lord, Lord Arbuthnot.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

Order. It is the turn of the Cross Benches.

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Debate between Lord Hain and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Lords Hansard - part two & Committee stage
Wednesday 3rd November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

Can the Minister say something more about facial recognition technology? She has covered this to some extent, but what is different from the heli-tele era that the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, described, or the incident in Belfast I described, when you did not have facial recognition technology? This is going that way if it is not there already, and does that not raise important regulatory questions, or is this being addressed by the committee she has just described? I would be grateful if she could elucidate.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I have not engaged with the committee. The committee could invite me, but I think it spoke to Home Secretary in the past few days. Live facial recognition is the comparison of images against a watchlist, whereas heli-tele seems to be—from what the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, was describing—aerial CCTV. The two are quite different and are governed under different laws. The LFR is a comparison against a watchlist, and that is why it is different.

Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill

Debate between Lord Hain and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords & Report: 1st sitting & Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords
Monday 11th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

While I have the opportunity, I thank the noble Lord for the conversation we had the other day—it was very helpful in allowing me to know exactly what both noble Lords required. I cannot give that undertaking at the Dispatch Box but I can go back and ascertain just how often the Home Secretary receives these reports and whether the Investigatory Powers Commissioner might be thinking of making more regular reports in future if necessary, or indeed spot reports as and when required. I can certainly undertake to do that.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

I too thank the Minister for her reply and for her engagement. It is clear from the balance of the debate that there is no point in my pressing Amendment 16, and therefore when the time comes, I will not seek to divide the House on it.

However, to follow up on the question of my noble friend Lord Blunkett, will the Minister give an assurance that the Home Secretary will take a particular interest in the most politically sensitive deployment of a CHIS, which is the area that has given rise to real worry? Whether that is in the form of a quarterly report or regular interactions with the head of the Metropolitan Police, other chief constables and the head of the security services is a matter for consideration, but there should be some hands-on authority by the Home Secretary and regular interest in deployments in politically sensitive areas.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

It was very good for us to have a chat the other day because we could discuss things that clearly we cannot discuss on the Floor of the House. I completely understood the sensitivity between some very nuanced situations and the purely operational role of the deployment of CHIS for criminal conduct. I will most certainly go back and put those points. Again, I thank the noble Lord for the time he took to discuss his concerns with me.

Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill

Debate between Lord Hain and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 1st December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hain (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her typically courteous and thoughtful response, particularly her offer to talk to a number of my noble friends and other noble Lords about possible oversight that would be acceptable to the Government. Could she look again at Amendment 15? I and my noble friend Lord Blunkett worked very closely with the Security Service, in my case when I was Secretary of State for Northern Ireland—including with the noble Baroness, Lady Manningham-Buller—GCHQ, and, when I was in the Foreign Office, with MI6. I have authorised warrants, as I have explained, for vital work in surveillance and interception, and worked with undercover officers.

I appeal to the noble Baroness to meet my noble friend Lord Blunkett and myself informally to discuss the terms of Amendment 15, because it is very practical. It can happen in real time; I have been involved in authorising warrants in real time, including one on Islamist bombers planning to attack London when the operation was live. So, it does deal with her point. It is practical; in some respects, it is the most practical of all these oversight measures. It would give greater legitimacy to and authority for the deployment of undercover officers for the purposes that she is quite properly seeking. They can play vital roles in combating terrorism, for example. I ask her to look again at this and perhaps meet us to discuss it.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The noble Lord knows how I operate, so he can be absolutely sure I would be happy to meet noble Lords to discuss some of these amendments. I was particularly attracted to the post-facto oversight, because operationally —I do not know whether the noble Baroness, Lady Manningham-Buller, is going to say something about this—prior authorisation could be very difficult. To get that notification as close to real time as possible is, I think, what we are all seeking.

Windrush Compensation Scheme

Debate between Lord Hain and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 24th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do. I think that finally having a Government who acknowledge what went on over seven decades provides a real impetus. I find that we are one of the most tolerant countries in the world, but it is shameful how long this has been going on. Funnily enough, I looked at the internal Home Office website yesterday because I was looking up something in Parliament, and the first thing I saw was the history of the Windrush generation—so maybe things are improving already. We are certainly more knowledgeable about who the Windrush generation were, what they came here to do and the legacy of rebuilding Britain that they have achieved for us. So I have great hope—I think we must always hope—but we need to do this together.

[Lord Hain (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I respect the Minister for her diligent decency. Will she accept that, despite government promises, over 3,000 Windrush victims have still not received any kind of justice, and miserably fewer have received any compensation at all? Some have died, been deported or wrongfully imprisoned, lost jobs, pensions, homes, all their dignity and rights—leaving them and their families, all proud British citizens, utterly traumatised. Surely this is a crime against humanity, with Tory Cabinet Ministers, headed by Theresa May, responsible.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Now and in the future, we want to ensure that the people who receive compensation get the full amount to which they are entitled. The compensation scheme is very broad, so I agree with the noble Lord that, on the one hand, 3,000 not receiving any compensation at all is one thing, but we are working through the system and there are a number of offers in place. We want to ensure that people who take up those offers receive the full amount to which they are entitled, and that the relatives of people who have died—the noble Lord mentioned them, and a lot of people will have died in that time—are given the money they are due and that their parents were owed.

Anti-terrorism Policy

Debate between Lord Hain and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 17th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I most wholeheartedly agree with the noble Lord’s first point: far-right extremism is indeed on the increase at a rate that we did not think possible some years ago. In fact, it makes up 50% of referrals to Prevent. Prevent is currently being reviewed, but I think it provides a valuable tool for safeguarding very vulnerable people from the far right and any other type of extremism.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that we have seen an unprecedented convergence of anti-Semitic attacks, Islamophobic attacks and racist attacks? Never before in our history have we seen these three forms of race hatred all converge; that is what makes it particularly threatening. Does she also agree that the many UKIP and Brexit Party members who have been accused of Islamophobia should stand condemned?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Without calling out any particular party, anybody who engages in anti-Semitism, Islamophobia or any other type of hatred should be condemned. It is up to all political parties to show leadership to this end. The noble Lord is absolutely right that there is an almost perfect storm of far-right and Islamist-type extremism, whose messages are similar but opposite in tone. It provides a perfect melting pot, as he says.

Zimbabwe: Asylum Seekers

Debate between Lord Hain and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 13th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, my noble friend asks a relevant question, but we do not take a country-based decision in looking at asylum claims. We look at the individual claim, depending on what it might be for, and then take a view on whether it is safe to return that person.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, given the current climate in Zimbabwe, which is a human rights-free zone, and with President Mnangagwa and his military henchmen cracking down on individual freedom and particularly the opposition, nobody should be deported, especially when families are protesting about the desperate situation they will probably face. Surely the Minister accepts that.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I certainly accept the noble Lord’s point that Zimbabwe is violating human rights conventions, but civil unrest—in and of itself—is not a reason to grant somebody protection. There are certain issues within that civil unrest—for example if someone is opposing the current regime and might be at risk, that would be taken into consideration.

Online Hate Speech

Debate between Lord Hain and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 30th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am sure the noble Lord will appreciate that I would not comment on ongoing considerations of proscriptions. But they are kept under regular review.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, can we assume that President Trump tweets only messages he has thought carefully about and agrees with? If so, he has endorsed a Nazi group with a vicious record of attacks, racism, Islamophobia and anti-Semitism. Surely there can be no question of a state visit until he has expressed at least some remorse about this.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I would not want to make any assumption about how people think when they tweet. As for the state visit, the invitation has been extended and accepted, but a firm timetable has not yet been finalised.

Pitchford Inquiry

Debate between Lord Hain and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 9th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, with regard to professional practice, the College of Policing published the Undercover Policing Authorised Professional Practice for consultation, and the guidance sets out the roles and responsibilities of police officers. Obviously, the PCC has oversight of the work of both chief constables and police officers.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, I was one of a number of MPs at the time who were named by an undercover police officer as having had a file on them. This was confirmed to me in person by Scotland Yard as being entirely innocent in my case, which some Members of this House may be sceptical about. Is that body of legislators—we were all legislators in the House of Commons at the time—being considered by the Pitchford inquiry? I think it should be.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am glad to hear that the noble Lord is absolutely innocent. I never doubted it. Clearly, the Home Office sponsors the work of the inquiry but we do not direct its work. I do not know whether the noble Lord has asked the inquiry whether that is its intention.

Orgreave: Public Inquiry into Policing

Debate between Lord Hain and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 20th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

During my right honourable friend the Home Secretary’s reply, I noted that she offered to meet a Labour MP. I will certainly put the same request to her that my noble friend makes.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, for the noble Baroness’s information, I place on record the fact that I have an email from the deputy chair of the IPCC, in which she clarifies that, “the IPCC has not taken or offered any position on whether there should be a public inquiry. That is entirely a matter for the Home Secretary”. Will the noble Baroness also convey to the Home Secretary that this is not just a question of the same officers being guilty of bad practice, and malevolence in the case of Hillsborough, but also that this incident occurred against a background of the unbridled use of state power against the miners? They were stopped miles and miles away on motorways coming from areas such as London and almost extrajudicial methods were used. This serious Orgreave incident needs to be considered in that context.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I think I confirmed to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, that I understand the IPCC has confirmed by email to a number of noble Lords that it has not made a decision. As regards conveying a message to the Home Secretary about the same officers being involved, that is precisely the sort of information that she will be looking at. She will be looking at the whole file that the campaign has taken six months to compile and give to her. She will not rush to a decision but will come swiftly to a decision after the Summer Recess.

Planning Permission

Debate between Lord Hain and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 15th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I do not recognise the 13% figure cited by my noble friend, because we do not publish national statistics on the percentage of decisions outstanding after a year. We publish figures on the periods within which a decision has been made. For major developments, in the most recent quarter, 10% of applications took more than a year to decide, or were decided after the end of an agreed extended time period, as set out in the planning performance agreement or extension of time, which could be anything over 13 or 16 weeks.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

If Schengen was suspended, why would the French Government—