Syria

Debate between Lord Hague of Richmond and Tony Lloyd

Monday 3rd September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

My hon. Friend is right about the United Nations on this subject, although I should stress that, although I have very bluntly said that the United Nations Security Council is failing in this matter, that does not mean that it is failing across a whole range of others. In recent months, the Security Council has been doing its job very well in respect of issues involving Somalia and Yemen, for example, but on this subject it is blocked and failing in its responsibilities.

My hon. Friend said that a proposal for a buffer zone had been made by the Government of Turkey. These ideas are floated from time to time by that Government, but Turkey is welcoming refugees. It is of course concerned about the numbers coming in, but it is not suggesting any change to that approach at the moment. We know from bitter experience that we can advocate safe havens or safe areas only if we are absolutely confident that we will be able to protect the people in those areas and the people travelling to them. That would in turn require not only huge military force but the readiness to use that force. The international will to do that and the decision to do that are clearly not there.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

The Foreign Secretary is absolutely right to take credit for the constructive role of his own Department and the Department for International Development, and to draw attention to the lamentable failure of Moscow and Beijing to look to their responsibilities. He also mentioned the position of Lebanon, which is the most likely of all Syria’s neighbouring countries to see an extension of the conflict igniting within its borders. Is the international community sufficiently apprised of how dangerous that situation is, and of how intractable a return to civil war would be if that were to happen in Lebanon?

[Mr Hague]

I hope so, and I hope that we are helping to increase the recognition of the importance and fragility of Lebanon in these issues. I mentioned briefly in my statement that we are using conflict pool funding to increase the support we give the Lebanese armed forces. We are also working closely with the Government of Lebanon in understanding the whole situation and in highlighting their difficulties to the international community. I am glad to say that under the French presidency of the Security Council and the meeting we had last week, the Lebanese Government were invited to the Security Council and were able to put the very serious situation in their country directly to the Security Council. That has helped to highlight the international difficulties. We will encourage other countries to give Lebanon practical assistance of various kinds and to follow suit in respect of the refugees entering Lebanon.

Syria

Debate between Lord Hague of Richmond and Tony Lloyd

Monday 6th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

I cannot imagine ever not needing a point of information from my right hon. Friend. He has a deep knowledge of the region, and he is right to point out that there remains a thriving Christian presence in Syria. We have to consider the fact that the regime there is now doomed, one way or the other. It is a question not of whether, but of how and when, it will fall. That highlights the importance of our work with the Syrian opposition. I have met two opposition groups, and the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) has had many meetings with them. We have impressed on them that if they are to form a future Government in Syria, they must recognise the importance of the protection of minorities, including Christians. We need to look to a future Government to give that protection, as this regime has no future.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

During the course of the Foreign Secretary’s conversations in New York, was the subject of the International Criminal Court raised? I understand that it is still necessary to give the present regime an exit strategy, but its crimes now warrant that level of legal sanction.

[Mr Hague]

They are very serious crimes, and that is a wholly legitimate question. The hon. Gentleman will know, however, that when a country is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court—as Syria is not—the United Nations Security Council must put forward a reference to the prosecutor of the ICC. Given the difficulties of passing the moderate and sensible plan put forward by the Arab League, it will be even more difficult—indeed, currently impossible—to pass a resolution seeking a reference to the court. That is why I explained in my statement that we will make strong representations at the meeting of the United Nations Human Rights Council, where we will press for the appointment of a special rapporteur and the establishment of special investigations into the human rights situation in Syria, as an alternative track.

Middle East and North Africa

Debate between Lord Hague of Richmond and Tony Lloyd

Wednesday 9th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

My hon. Friend blazed a trail by being the first British MP to go to Mauritania in a very long time. I can assure him that people there are still talking about his visit, and they will be for a long time to come. I strongly welcome the work that he has undertaken. We now have one diplomat based in Nouakchott, and of course we may want to expand that presence in future. I do not want to go any further than that at the moment.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

The Foreign Secretary rightly drew attention to our need to have dialogue with the Arab League, and possibly Turkey, about Iran and Syria. Does he accept that while we do not buy friendship with those we work with, nevertheless the decision announced today about the vote on Palestine will not be well understood by our friends in the Arab world?

[Mr Hague]

I think the situation in the Security Council is quite well understood in the Arab world. As I pointed out to one of the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues, there has been no serious expectation that a bid to the Security Council could be successful; given the position of the United States, it is not possible for it to be successful. What matters, therefore, is what happens next. It is very well understood in the Arab world that we have been increasing the pressure on Israel and increasing our condemnation of actions such as the settlement activity undertaken by Israel, and that we are doing our utmost to restart negotiations.

Middle East and North Africa

Debate between Lord Hague of Richmond and Tony Lloyd

Thursday 13th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

This successful negotiation is a ray of hope in a difficult and often bleak situation in the middle east. It shows that a successful negotiation can be carried out with the involvement of Israel and, as was necessary in this case, Hamas, through the good offices of Egypt, and I congratulated the Egyptian Foreign Minister on Egypt’s role in this. It would of course be welcome if Hamas were to move away from its rigid positions. If peace is to be brought about, it is very important that all concerned recognise Israel’s right to exist, support previous agreements and denounce the use of violence. It would be very welcome if Hamas would do those things or make concrete moves towards them.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

On the same theme, does the Foreign Secretary accept that the continued economic siege of Gaza creates the space for the most extreme voices to gain traction there? If we are to see movement towards a proper negotiation between the Israelis and the Palestinians, is it not necessary for that economic siege to be lifted?

[Mr Hague]

The hon. Gentleman’s terminology is slightly different from how I would describe the situation, but yes, we think that the Israelis should act to allow more goods into and out of Gaza. We have criticised the current policy on many occasions, although there have been some improvements over the past year. I agree with the gist of his remarks. Often the effect of the policy has been to strengthen the position of Hamas domestically within Gaza and its financial interests there. It would be wiser for Israel to change the policy, just as it is necessary for Hamas to change its policies in the way I have just described.

Middle East and North Africa

Debate between Lord Hague of Richmond and Tony Lloyd

Tuesday 26th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

It is certainly true that the United Kingdom and France make a huge contribution and, most of the time, the largest contribution to the campaign. I hesitate to use words like “disproportionate”, as I must say that the contribution—including an offensive strike capability—from countries such as Denmark and Norway is, considering their size as countries and the size of their armed forces, very much proportionate to the efforts that we are making. We should not think that only the United Kingdom and France are contributing. There are 16 nations involved in the military activity. As my right hon. and learned Friend knows, Arab nations are also involved. In response to our recent requests, other countries have brought other military assets into play—Spain, for example, providing additional air-to-air refuelling capability and Italy bringing in ground-strike capability. At all times, the United States continues to supply about a quarter of all sorties flown, even in periods when it is not taking part in ground strike. The right hon. and learned Gentleman can see that the burden is spread more widely than the headlines sometimes give the impression, but would we like a greater contribution from some other nations and did we say so at the NATO meeting in Berlin? Well, yes, we did.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

The Foreign Secretary has quite rightly referred to the legal, moral and international base that resolution 1973 mandates, and it is imperative that we stick within it. In that context, can he restrain those voices calling to go beyond that—as, for example, the call to target Colonel Gaddafi and others—and make them desist, because that sort of thing will not keep the coalition together?

[Mr Hague]

I am trying to restrain them, as I restrained the right hon. Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth) a moment ago in relation to a parallel subject. As for the question of specific targets, we will not go into it. Who or what become legitimate targets depends on how they behave. I will not expand, and no Minister will expand, on who or what will be a target.

Libya and the Middle East

Debate between Lord Hague of Richmond and Tony Lloyd

Monday 7th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Yes, I think that is absolutely right. We have to work with people in those societies without us in the western world telling them what to do. We have to work with the grain of their cultures and traditions, but the building up of civil society, improvements in human rights and the development of more open political activity should—certainly in my view and clearly in my hon. Friend’s view too—include a much increased role for women in those societies. That is something that, in the right way, we should certainly promote.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

The Foreign Secretary does not need me to tell him that when we engage in the kind of operations that took place over recent days, there is risk a to serving British service people, as well as to those with whom they come into contact. That must be proportionate. In this case, is the right hon. Gentleman confident that what appears to have ended in farce could not have ended in tragedy?

[Mr Hague]

The hon. Gentleman points to an important fact. There are risks involved in many of the things that we have to do in such situations. There were risks involved in what happened the previous weekend in the rescue of oil workers from the desert. One of those flights was engaged with small arms fire when it landed in the desert, so yes, there are risks involved, and it is precisely because there are risks involved in the deployment of our staff in such situations that we act on professional and military advice to give them protection.

Afghanistan

Debate between Lord Hague of Richmond and Tony Lloyd

Wednesday 27th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

I thank my hon. Friend for his suggestion, and I will make sure that my officials have a word about it. There are alternative crops and livelihoods to narcotics, and pomegranates is one of them. In other parts of Afghanistan, such as Herat, which I visited in July, saffron is a very good, and a very high value, alternative crop. A lot of the work being done by provincial reconstruction teams is dedicated to getting Afghan farmers to grow these crops instead.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

The Foreign Secretary should know that his commitment to giving regular and frank reports to the House is important in maintaining a national commitment to our mission in Afghanistan. In his statement, he rightly drew attention to the essentially Afghani nature of any peace process. It is right and proper that it should be Afghan-led, and it is not proper for even Afghanistan’s allies to load too many conditions on to the process. However, does the Foreign Secretary agree that it is absolutely vital that both President Karzai and his Government—as well as, perhaps, our allies in Washington—recognise that we are not prepared for the conditions of human rights and the rule of law to be thrown out of the window in any peace process?

[Mr Hague]

Again, I thank the hon. Gentleman for his welcome for the idea of giving these statements. One reason we have introduced them is that it is important that we do not discuss Afghanistan in this House only when there is a sudden crisis or there are heavy casualties. Rather, we should discuss it regularly so we are able to see things in the round without there being an atmosphere of sudden drama. That is what we are trying to achieve by making these statements.

I agree with the thrust of the hon. Gentleman’s question on political reconciliation. It is very important that there is a political process. The political authority for that now exists in Afghanistan, and in my statement I took care to refer to the importance of the Afghan constitutional framework, which guarantees human rights, including women’s rights. I am sure that all hon. Members will strongly support maintaining that in any future political settlement.

Gaza Flotilla

Debate between Lord Hague of Richmond and Tony Lloyd

Wednesday 2nd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Since we have called for an investigation, I do not think that we can pre-empt such matters. I stress that, as far as we know, the aid workers, activists, or people who were aboard the ship—however we want to describe them—and who may be in that position do not include any of the British nationals. Again, the hon. Gentleman makes a point that illustrates the strength of feeling in this House. That is one reason why we need to continue to call so strongly for the credible investigation to which I have referred.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

The Foreign Secretary has rightly referred to the strength of feeling in this House, and, indeed, almost on a global basis. However, he will be as aware as anyone that Israel has a well-founded reputation for toughing out these crises, hoping that they will go away, and has been very successful in doing that. He made the point, again rightly, that these events are the recruiting sergeants for terrorism. Can he tell the House—this is a serious question—what will be different this time?

[Mr Hague]

I cannot guarantee to the hon. Gentleman what the course of events will now be. I can say, slightly reiterating what I said earlier, that these incidents have shone a particular spotlight on to the situation in Gaza. The speed and unity of the diplomatic response is unusual. I referred earlier to the ease with which the UN Security Council statement was agreed, including with the United States—I stress that point. I think that that will have been duly noted in Israel; in fact, I know that it has been duly noted in Israel. Can I promise what reaction the Israelis will now provide? No, I cannot, but we will watch it very closely and minutely, and we will argue very strongly for the measures that I have set out today, not excluding other courses of action in the future.