Social Security (Contributions) (Amendment No. 2) Regulations 2011

Debate between Lord German and Lord Davies of Oldham

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for the explicit way in which he outlined the contents of the regulations and the order. He will forgive me if I do not spend a great deal of time responding to them. First, it seems that the main principles adumbrated in his contribution were debated pretty thoroughly at the general election and largely resolved by crucial decisions then. Secondly, we have had the opportunity to debate national insurance contributions with some degree of intensity over the past few weeks. These issues have also already been considered by the other place. Therefore, the noble Lord will forgive me if I am not able to match the strength, force and length of his opening contribution. However, I have two specific questions to ask, to which I would like him to address his mind and respond.

The Government—or the more senior party of the coalition—made much of this in their rhetoric during the general election. Afterwards, there was in the coalition agreement this commitment—indeed, a pledge—to stop the rise in employer national insurance contributions from April 2011. However, there seems to be a difference between the expectations to which this might give rise and the reality that we see in the SI before us. What is given back to the employer through the threshold changes to class 1 secondary contributions? The threshold goes up from 12.8 to 13.8 per cent but this appears to be somewhat less than employers might have thought they were getting following the pledge to stop the rise entirely as far as employers are concerned. It looks as though the Government are giving back with a degree of generosity that does not quite fulfil their commitment. The noble Lord mentioned that he thought that as much as £3 billion was being returned. Can he confirm that figure and say whether it is consistent with employers’ expectations of what they would get back?

Secondly, I want to comment on what I am sure the noble Lord will indicate is a minor issue, although it is not minor to many of us. I refer to the contribution of married women and widows. I know that they form a limited group but I see that the increase in their contributions will be from 4.8 to 5.8 per cent. What are they getting for that increase? We know that they get no retirement pension, that they cannot get jobseeker’s allowance if they become unemployed and that they receive no sickness benefits. Yet, in all the Government’s bravado about the restrictions that they would place on increasing national insurance contributions, they could not exempt this group. That seems to be at one with an awful lot of the dispositions made by the Chancellor and by Ministers responsible for Treasury matters over the past few months. I think particularly of child benefit for women who earn more than £40,000 a year. Whether intended or not, the legislation seems to discriminate pretty heavily against women when we would have thought that, if the Government were true to the principle that the noble Lord adumbrated in his concluding remarks, which reflected some fairness, this group would have been treated more generously. Will the Minister comment on that? In more general terms, the Opposition are supportive of the regulations.

[Lord German]

My Lords, perhaps I may add a few words of welcome for these regulations. They give effect to a significant commitment that this Government made to try to reduce the costs to business of employment, to try to make sure that those who are in employment at lower levels of income receive a boost and to give effect to that commonly held and often-referred-to statement that work will always pay. Taken in the round, we cannot omit the other part of this package—the Welfare Reform Bill—which will ensure that those on lower earnings always benefit by being in work and that they do not lose their pensions.

Primarily, these regulations give help to support people on lower incomes. They help those at the lower end of the pay scale but, as the Minister said, they are part of a package to lift people—many tens of thousands and nearly a million in this case—out of national insurance contributions altogether and to reduce the tax burden as a whole for a substantial number of working people throughout the country. That is a crucial change, which, taken with the Welfare Reform Bill, will support the poorest and ensure that it will always pay for people to be in work, to seek work and to find work. It is progressive and as such should be encouraged.

We were told by the opposition party during the last general election that it would be better not to raise VAT but to raise national insurance contributions. We have increased VAT to 20 per cent. To what level would national insurance contributions have to rise to match that switch? Is it not far better to ensure that people who are on the lowest earnings can keep more of their income and that the poorest in our society benefit most from these changes? Is not the progressive nature of these changes crucial to fairness in our society?