Investigatory Powers Bill

Debate between Lord Garnier and Bill Wiggin

Ping Pong: House of Commons
Tuesday 15th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Sir Edward Garnier]

I do not wish to be rude to the hon. Lady, but I did not say any of those things. I am not a leading member of the criminal Bar. I happened for some little while to be a member of the media and defamation Bar, which may be a distinction without a difference as far as she is concerned. [Interruption.] She may disagree with me—she may disagree with me vehemently—but what we are trying to do is to pass good law. If my colleagues on the Front Bench, and those around me, disagree with me, fine: go ahead and disagree with me.

[Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)]

We do.

[Sir Edward Garnier]

My hon. Friend clearly does.

[Bill Wiggin]

I absolutely disagree with my right hon. and learned Friend. I have been sitting here listening to him carefully, but I cannot think of any other industry that does not offer any sort of guarantee. If people make faulty washing machines, they replace them, but if they publish stories about people, they have already made their money by the time they end up being sued, and that is why the papers have to bear some of the cost.

[Sir Edward Garnier]

My hon. Friend’s intervention demonstrates to me that I have not made myself clear. What I am suggesting is that it is wrong for a claimant who has lost his case to demand the costs from the successful defendant. I am not suggesting that if I make a faulty washing machine, I should not be liable, under law or morally, to put the matter right. However, if I have made a good washing machine, the fact that my hon. Friend does not like the colour of it, or the fact that it revolves in any number of ways—[Interruption.] I am in danger, Madam Deputy Speaker, of reducing the level of the debate to something that it should not be. I will stop now, because I think I have made the points that I wish to make with sufficient clarity. Some will agree with me and some will not, but I urge the Government to be very wary about passing unjust laws for very well-motivated purposes.

amendment of the law

Debate between Lord Garnier and Bill Wiggin

Monday 24th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sir Edward Garnier]

I fear that I am limited to one free hit, and the right hon. Gentleman may not have one. Perhaps he should see his financial adviser instead.

If those of us who are about to retire wish to invest our pension funds in property or in stocks and shares—or in buying an annuity—let us do it. Let us be allowed to make informed, adult decisions. Yes of course we must build protections into the system to prevent people from being mistreated or misled, as the Chancellor made clear in his Budget statement, but we must allow them to make their decisions from a position of knowledge. For goodness’ sake, let us not imagine that Mr Whitehall Man, or even Mr Labour Cabinet Minister, is better able than anyone else to decide how I should lead my life. I really object to that form of nanny state—

[Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)]

Quite right!

[Sir Edward Garnier]

I used that expression in order to encourage my hon. Friend. I do not like the kind of jargon that we are forced to use in these short, time-limited debates.

If there is one thing in the Budget that we ought to appreciate, it is the liberalisation of the pension and old-age retirement income. My private Member’s Bill was defeated by the then Government. I think that Ruth Kelly was the Treasury Minister who organised its destruction. I hope that, were she here in the House now, she would welcome the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor last week. I hope, too, that Opposition Members will come to realise that they need to catch up with public opinion and to acknowledge the desire of all people, whether they vote Labour or Conservative—I dare say one or two might even vote Liberal Democrat—to support their own independence and to make their own decisions. I congratulate the Chancellor and I wish him all good speed with this measure.