Recall of MPs Bill
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Soley(9 years, 11 months ago)
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Lord Soley
I am grateful to the Minister. I said in my opening remarks that the alternative was a review system and I think that the Government ought to think about that. It was interesting that in his summing-up the Minister used the phrase “defined tests”. He was obviously referring to the three tests that are used to trigger this process. It is not the tests that worry me so much, with the exception of the third one, which could become highly political. What worries me are the processes, which are so ill thought out and ill spelled out in the Bill. Ministers have again and again today been standing up and saying, “We are not sure how this will work. We are going to look at election law and bring it in”. There are so many uncertainties there. I can tell noble Lords that it is going to be a gift to lawyers if we do not get that bit right. We have not done it in the House. The process of this House as a reviewing Chamber has led, time and again, to the Government Front Bench saying, “Well, we will look at this further down the line”, or, “We hope to get regulations about it” or, “We will think about it”. Such uncertainty with regard to a constitutional Bill is almost an invitation for the courts to get involved, sooner or later, in some way. Either that or the Bill will not work as it is meant to. Indeed, the fallacy in the Bill is the lack of a clearly-defined process at a number of stages, and that is why I think that the Government should think about a review or a sunset clause. However, in view of what the Minister said—perhaps he will go away and think about it—I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Leveson Inquiry
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Soley(11 years, 2 months ago)
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Lord Soley
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress they have made towards putting into effect the proposals made by Lord Justice Leveson in his report into the culture, practices and ethics of the British press.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)
My Lords, on 11 October, a final draft of the cross-party charter on self-regulation of the press was published following further discussions by the three main parties. These discussions helped to make the charter more workable. The cross-party charter will be on the agenda for a Privy Council meeting on 30 October.
Lord Soley (Lab)
I thank the Minister for that reply. After the 20th anniversary of my Private Member’s Bill in the House of Commons, now reborn as Leveson, this is like travelling at the speed of light, although not everyone would agree with that. What do the Government propose to do if the newspapers decide not to co-operate with the new body? What talks have they had with the newspaper industry about that possibility?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, the first thing I will say is that the noble Lord is indeed a patient Lord. However, our purpose is to seek a voluntary process, and we very much hope that the press will, through its independent, self-regulatory body, apply to the recognition panel so that what has happened before does not happen again and we have the right mechanism in place. I emphasise that it is voluntary for the press to apply to the recognition panel. However, as your Lordships know, Parliament has—following through from the Leveson report—made very clear, through the Crime and Courts Act, what the position would be for those who transgressed.
Press Regulation
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Soley
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
A number of questions were asked, my Lords. We have to undertake due processes as regards the PressBoF charter application. One reason for the timing of that is that none of the detailed preliminary work with the relevant government departments and other interested parties that normally precedes a formal petition of the Privy Council has been undertaken. Indeed, that period of openness has resulted in 19,000 responses. Due processes have to be undertaken. That is the legal advice to which it is important to adhere. As for the Government’s charter, work is continuing on the outstanding points. I will perhaps go into them in further detail later, but work is being undertaken on the Government’s proposals. As for the press proprietors’ considerations, this is a matter for the Privy Council, not a matter for the press proprietors. The Privy Council will go through the due processes that are required. They may be lengthy or arcane to some, but they must be undertaken.
Lord Soley
Is it not glaringly obvious to everybody that the press is playing for time in order to avoid their responsibilities? Is it not time that we faced up to this? May I offer my assistance to the Minister, having had some experience of Bills of this nature from 20-odd years ago? I suggest that a group of Members, whether in the House of Commons or the House of Lords or jointly, see the Culture Secretary with proposals for a Bill promoting Leveson’s recommendations. It might take into account some of the other factors that have come to light, but we could have proper regulation fairly soon by putting a Bill through Parliament and ceasing to play for time with royal commissions.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I understand your Lordships’ frustration about timing. Indeed, already two elements of Acts of Parliament with cross-party agreement deal with some of the Leveson recommendations. Obviously, I will pass on to the Secretary of State the noble Lord’s suggestion. However, I repeat—and I am sorry for doing so—that we have to go through the due process. The legal advice on these matters has been given to the leaders of all the political parties and I know that the Leader of the Opposition is in possession of that. That is why we are going through the necessary procedures.
Leveson Inquiry: Report
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Soley
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, as I mentioned, there will need to be due processes for the Pressbof royal charter to be considered. However, the royal charter published on 18 March continues to have cross- party support, and the support of all party leaders. It was the subject of 21 weeks of discussion and negotiation. The Government believe it would put in place a system of independent self-regulation with a robust system of redress, while protecting the freedom of the press.
Lord Soley
Will the Minister convey to the Secretary of State for Culture and, through her, to the Prime Minister the sense of outrage that is felt, not just by victims, at the way senior members of the press are trying to override the will of Parliament? They claim press freedom, but they were the ones who closed the News of the World rather than sacking the chief executive and chairman. Why are we listening to them when they ought to be showing a bit of humility and recognising the will of Parliament?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, of course I understand what the noble Lord has said. We must indeed remember why the Leveson inquiry was held. Innocent people suffered tremendous harm and we owe it to them to ensure that this does not happen again. However, that should not and does not conflict with the important place we have for protecting freedom of the press.
Leveson Inquiry
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Soley
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
I am afraid to say that, again, this is rather above my pay grade. It is obviously a matter for the usual channels in the first place. I am not in a position to suggest business for your Lordships’ House and that is where the position will have to remain for today.
Lord Soley
I put it to the Minister that the royal charter, a draft of which I read today, is statutory underpinning. I understand the problem that he has about the timing, but we should not worry too much about that. The central message is that we need the agreement of the whole of Parliament to take this forward, if only to give the public the confidence in the press that they need. We also need to remind the press that this is an opportunity for it to change the culture that has done it so much damage over the years. I say that as someone who introduced the Freedom and Responsibility of the Press Bill 23 years—nearly a quarter of a century—ago. Much of what was in that Bill is in a combination of the royal charter and the Leveson report. Therefore, let us work together jointly and give the press the opportunity that it needs to improve its standards.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
What the noble Lord has said is a powerful statement of a view that many will share; I certainly do. This is an opportunity for the press to change some of the practices that have occurred but should never have occurred. The important thing is not just that we think of the victims but that we ensure we have in place something that means these things do not happen again. What the noble Lord said certainly chimes with me. I am sorry that the timing of this Question is such that I am not in a position to discuss the detail. It would be a courtesy to the leaders of the two political parties in the other place—