Warm Home Discount (Scotland) Regulations 2026

Debate between Lord Fuller and Lord Whitehead

Monday 27th April 2026 Grand Committee

[Lord Whitehead (Lab)]

I thank noble Lords for their valuable contributions to this debate; I will attempt to address them in the best way I can.

I have got to know the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, well during my time as a Minister in this House. I say to him, with respect, that, although he is unfailingly constructive and courteous and makes important points, I fear that he has today given us a tour d’horizon of all the things we have been discussing over the past few months, wrapped within the carapace of the SI before us, which relates only to the specific Scottish circumstances of the warm home discount scheme. I hope he will forgive me if I do not give a detailed reply to some of his points because they have been discussed on other occasions; perhaps we could, over a drink at the end of the Session, tease out some of these issues between ourselves as we prepare for the proroguing of Parliament.

On the contributions concerning this specific SI, I thank the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, for his contribution. His concerns relate to the enormous increase in coverage that has been achieved by these new arrangements. Because the Scottish Government asked the UK Government to set up an SI for a scheme similar, but not identical, to that in the rest of the UK, the benefits of the substantial increase in coverage now relate to Scotland and England just the same. However, there are of course questions relating to the fact that there are, and have been since 2011, considerable differences between some of the detail of the Scottish scheme and the English one. That is partly because of the identification of virtually everybody who is taking part in the expanded scheme in England, but it is not quite so as far as the Scottish scheme is concerned.

In the Scottish scheme, there is a core group and there is a broader group. The broader group is subject to identification by application and is then put into the assistance system by the energy suppliers, but there is a question about whether those energy suppliers are going to do that properly. How will it be ensured that they do, and, if they fall short, how can that be rectified by things such as making sure that industry initiatives are brought up so that the broader group does not suffer in the way that it might otherwise do? It is down to the Scottish Government and Ofgem to make sure it happens, but it is clearly something that we need to keep a close eye on as the scheme develops.

I say to the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, that the Government are taking action on energy prices and bearing down on them. As he will know, we have the energy price cap, which has made sure that prices go down by about 7% over the next few months. We have had the transfer of renewables obligation levies and the ending of eco-levy costs to reduce bills. We have an ambition to take considerably more off energy bills in the future using those sorts of devices.

The noble Lord talked about domestically produced fuel. We completely agree on the need to have domestically sourced power in the UK. That is exactly what the Government are doing with increased offshore wind and solar. I have already talked to the noble Lord about how we can increase the amount of domestically produced onshore gas by increasing the biomethane that is injected into the grid—a completely domestic source of gas. The Government are acting on these things.

The noble Lord quoted Dieter Helm, saying that we are only moving the deckchairs. Sometimes moving deckchairs is a good thing, particularly if the deckchairs were previously in the shade and you can bring them out into the sun by the things you are doing. For example, one of the things that we are doing here is to move the effect of the funding from standing charges to individual markers related to the amount of power that is being consumed by particular customers. Instead of that money being taken for these warm home discount schemes from standing charges, they will be a combination of matters now, which will save people something like £39 on standing charges. So yes, we can move the deckchairs. I am conscious that we need to move further and faster—to move more deckchairs more rapidly—and transcending that. If this measure is about moving deckchairs, the deckchairs have been moved very efficiently and we have a good scheme as a result.

[Lord Fuller (Con)]

I listened careful to all the deckchairs moving around, but the Minister’s analogy is incomplete, because the deckchairs that are referred to in the famous aphorism relate to the deckchairs on a sinking ship. That is the pointlessness of some of the things we are looking at. It is important that, rather than rearranging the deckchairs on a sinking ship, where everybody goes down with the vessel, we look at keeping energy prices as low as we can. The high energy prices that this nation is labouring under are de-industrialising our nation, killing our chemical industry and giving everybody the highest energy costs in the industrialised world. That is something we need to bear down upon.

[Lord Whitehead (Lab)]

As I was just saying to the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, moving the deckchairs depends on the fact that the ship is not sinking. Of course, this ship is not sinking. That is why we have been able to double the eligibility for people to take part in the scheme and are further doubling down on energy price reductions through the devices that I set out and the further development of clean, domestically produced power to make sure those prices stay low for the future. We are doing other measures, such as de-linking the arrangements between gas-based electricity and renewables-based electricity. The purpose of a number of things might seem to be moving the deckchairs, but certainly not on a sinking ship. The ship has all its deckchairs in the sun now and is steaming forward to a bright energy future.

Motion agreed.

Clean Power 2030 Action Plan: Rural Communities

Debate between Lord Fuller and Lord Whitehead

Wednesday 22nd April 2026 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Whitehead) (Lab)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to all those who have contributed to this important debate and particularly to the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, for securing it in the first instance. She made a number of important points that go along, I think, with her particular view about the role of renewables but are nevertheless important points that need considering as far as this debate is concerned.

Before proceeding, I want to add my congratulations to the noble Lord, Lord Nagaraju, who made his maiden speech this afternoon. I think he will have gathered already from the acclaim around the House for his maiden speech that he will undoubtedly be a tremendous asset to our House in the future.

In her initial contribution, the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, listed a number of alternatives to Clean Power 2030. What was striking about the list of alternatives she put forward is that they are mostly things that the Government are doing already. They are not necessarily exactly in the context of the Clean Power 2030 Action Plan, although there are many more things in that plan than many noble Lords and others seem to think—for example, there is a substantial role to play for hydrogen in the action plan and on a longer-term basis after 2030.

The noble Baroness mentioned clean power: floating solar, energy from waste and small nuclear. The Government are actively involved in undertaking all these things at the moment. But I emphasise that they are not alternatives to the race or the journey to clean power; they are part of that journey, along with other things, such as offshore and onshore wind, solar, and various other arrangements that we can see blossoming before us.

The action plan is a requirement to get to mostly, or almost wholly, renewable power by 2030, both for reasons of carbon emissions reduction—and the move towards net zero by 2050—and to make sure that the nation has energy independence as far as is possible and that we are not dependent on fossil fuels from around the world dictating how our energy economy works for the future.

Noble Lords have drawn attention to just how hard this work will be to achieve those particular goals, and they are absolutely right: it is very ambitious to ask the energy system to translate itself into a low-carbon system with the speed that we hope will be achieved. But we ought to be clear that the means being put in place to do this are not the bogey mentioned by a number of noble Lords. This is genuinely clean power. It will, certainly for rural communities, enhance their way of life, with cleaner air and much greater community involvement in the power that will be introduced, which the noble Earl, Lord Russell, mentioned. Altogether, this will make our society a much cleaner, greener and more liveable place overall.

That does indeed involve certain changes to how we deploy our power in the future. Noble Lords have mentioned that we may use 10% of productive farmland, for example, for solar and similar activities. Reports were mentioned, and the land use framework published by Defra in March 2026, for example, states that renewables are projected to take up approximately 155,000 hectares of England’s utilised agricultural area, which is about 2%, not 10%. As the noble Earl, Lord Russell, mentioned, that is far less than the amount of land taken up by golf courses in this country for the future. So it is not the huge take that some people suggest.

[Lord Fuller (Con)]

The noble Lord is selectively quoting from the table, and he may indeed be right on solar, but the land use framework enumerates a whole load of other different types of use. In total, 1.7 million hectares—about a fifth of all the farmland in England—is to be taken from agriculture and applied to other uses. He cannot get away from that: those are the Government’s numbers.

[Lord Whitehead (Lab)]

The noble Lord says I am selectively quoting. I am sorry to disagree with him, but I am not selectively quoting; I am quoting. That is what the land use framework says on the best estimates for the land that is being taken. In addition to that, he and other noble Lords will be aware that, in the guidance and arrangements for the development of solar, there is a clear understanding that the best and most versatile land will be excluded from those solar developments and that they should go primarily on brownfield land or less-important agricultural land, so that precisely that best and most versatile land for farming and food use is preserved for that activity. That is what is happening with the solar developments coming forward at the moment.

The other thing I want to mention on rural communities is that, when we are putting forward proposals for grid coverage of the country, as other noble Lords have mentioned—the noble Lord, Lord Howell, for example—that is not just about clean power 2030. Among other things, it is about getting the grid fit for energy for the future in general. Even if clean power 2030 were not in place, it would be necessary to undertake that huge programme of grid renewal and updating, partly because of the extreme neglect of grid uprating that took place during the Conservative Government who immediately preceded this Government. We are not just undertaking a grid for the future but catching up from the past.

UK Energy Sources and Cost of Energy

Debate between Lord Fuller and Lord Whitehead

Thursday 19th March 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Fuller (Con)]

My Lords, the crisis is immediate. What assessment have the Government made about the essential products that rely on gas—ammonia, CO₂, aniline, soda ash, ethylene and sulphuric acid—without which a modern economy cannot exist and without which factories will close?

[Lord Whitehead (Lab)]

The noble Lord will know that we have recently engaged in an extensive conversation in corridors about the question of ammonia in the UK economy. This is related to the energy crisis, in as much as we do not have ammonia manufacturing sites in the UK and the manufacture of ammonia is highly energy dependent. One of the ways forward on that is to produce green ammonia, which he will know was a subject of our discussion just recently. That is one way to secure the future of ammonia supplies in the UK without resorting to high levels of fossil fuel in the process.

Energy Markets

Debate between Lord Fuller and Lord Whitehead

Monday 9th March 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Whitehead (Lab)]

I very much welcome my noble friend Lord Foulkes back to his place, as it were. Although he was speaking from a place that is slightly remote, I nevertheless have a real feeling that he is, in essence, in the Chamber with us this evening.

I absolutely endorse what my noble friend had to say on this subject. After all, nuclear is low-carbon, essentially renewable, essentially homegrown and stays with us for a very long time—and, in case anyone had not noticed, this is firm power. Having nuclear in our low-carbon arsenal is very much part of the process of getting ourselves off high-carbon fossil fuels and into a situation where we can control our own energy destiny in this country.

My noble friend will know that work is under way to procure a small modular reactor with Rolls-Royce, which is going very well, and there is the possibility of life extensions to one or more of the existing nuclear power stations, which, again, would be a very good contribution to the energy security of this country for the future.

[Lord Fuller (Con)]

My Lords, this is the week in which the well-meaning but naive approach to net zero finally hit the buffers. It is not just oil—I should know, as a 40-year veteran of the fertiliser industry—it is the gas that produces ammonia and the CO₂ that drives our economy forward. There is no domestic production of ammonia or fertilisers any more; we are reliant on the kindness of strangers. A third of the world production of fertilisers is now stranded beyond the Strait of Hormuz at the moment the crops need it the most. The reality is that farmers will pay a quarter more for their fertiliser immediately, driving food price inflation on beer, bread, biscuits and butter, just like in 2022.

But there is worse. I know that the UK’s cement and steel industries need support for the CBAM. But, from 1 January, farmers will see the prospect of fertiliser going up by a further 25%, turning a calamity into a food security catastrophe. Will the Minister urgently review the fundamental basis for the CBAM, to stop this food disaster being visited on our shores?

[Lord Whitehead (Lab)]

The noble Lord talked about the CBAM and ammonia production in one and a half breaths. On the question of the CBAM, it is a very important part of the low-carbon economy in terms of making sure that there is not carbon seepage from our economy elsewhere and that the low-carbon industry that is being developed is not undermined by rogue dumping and various other things in this state from elsewhere. The CBAM is certainly an important part of the green transition, not an impediment to it.

As far as ammonia is concerned, I am sure the noble Lord knows that there are ways to produce it for the UK market other than relying on gas for it. Certainly, low-carbon ammonia can be quite a substantial chemical for the future. That is, of course, not something that will happen overnight but, clearly, as the noble Lord said, we have no ammonia production in this country on a high-carbon basis, so perhaps we should encourage it on a much lower-carbon basis.