Francis Report: Update and Response

Debate between Lord Framlingham and Earl Howe

Wednesday 11th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord, as ever, makes a series of very important points. The personal qualities of these guardians need to be considered very carefully. At this early stage, we have made no firm proposals along those lines. As I have indicated, we think that every NHS organisation needs to identify one member of staff to whom other members of staff can speak if they have concerns, particularly if they feel that they are not being listened to. Clearly, the qualities of that local guardian need to be of a kind that inspires trust in the body of employees. As regards the national whistleblowing guardian, that will be a full-time post within the CQC. Again, it will require somebody of stature, sensitivity and trustworthiness so that the system can be seen to be robust.

[Lord Framlingham (Con)]

My Lords, when I served in the other place, I tried very hard to persuade the then Government to bring back the traditional role of matron into our hospitals. I know that we have modern matrons, but they are not the same thing. It was a most disastrous day when we took matrons away from our hospitals; heaven knows why we did it. If we reintroduced that role, with all its responsibility—and particularly its authority—and an awareness of what goes on the hospital, many of the things that we are talking about today would be resolved.

[Earl Howe]

I am sure that my noble friend’s comments will strike a chord in many places. I am aware that we have had debates of this kind quite often in the past. Of course, it is open to any NHS organisation or hospital to appoint a matron if it so wishes—and indeed some do that. The key point here is that there should be appropriate leadership in nursing at a senior level in the organisation. The successful organisations of which I am aware have had a senior nurse on the board and someone who has taken direct responsibility for nursing standards throughout that organisation.

Care Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Framlingham and Earl Howe

Tuesday 29th October 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I hope that my noble friend will on reflection agree that promotion is very much a part of the local authority’s role here. However, subsection (2) makes adequate provision as regards the emotional well-being of a person.

My noble friend Lord Hamilton compared what we are proposing in the Bill to the situation in the National Health Service. The NHS does not have a duty to promote spiritual well-being and, if it did, that potentially would have the negative consequences that I outlined. Having said that, the noble Baroness, Lady Emerton, is of course right—the NHS must take a patient-centred approach when planning and delivering services, and that would naturally include having regard to an individual’s beliefs where relevant. It is exactly this position that the Bill will replicate for local authorities when they plan and deliver care and support. To support the NHS in fulfilling its functions the Department of Health has produced best-practice guidance on NHS chaplaincy but I struggle to understand how that can equate to a duty in primary legislation on local authorities to promote spiritual well-being as my noble friend would have it.

[Lord Framlingham (Con)]

I am minded to vote for the amendment but perhaps the Minister can explain why there is a great deal of difference—or any difference —between the National Health Service and local government in terms of patient care.

[Earl Howe]

I tried to explain that there is none. There is no primary duty in statute on the National Health Service to promote spiritual well-being, which is why we are trying to make the Bill entirely consistent with that position. We have aimed for a system built around individuals and I have tabled my amendment to make absolutely clear that a person’s beliefs, spiritual or otherwise, should be taken into account in this personalised approach to care.

As noble Lords may expect, I asked my officials to consider my noble friend’s proposal and whether anyone could benefit under his amendment who would not do so under the Government’s amendment. The advice that I received is clear that no such example can be found. I struggle to understand why my noble friend might feel it necessary to divide the House on this matter if he is minded to do so.