Healthcare (International Arrangements) Bill

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 21st February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The different Governments have clearly taken different approaches. The noble Lord will know that it does not automatically follow, even if you know where you all want to get to, that you can agree it overnight. I am sure that my noble friend the Minister will be able to update us.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, I want to endorse everything that my noble and learned friend Lord Wallace of Tankerness has said. He has the great distinction of having been for some time Deputy First Minister of Scotland and, for a short period, acting First Minister. Very few people can claim that distinction. Again, I agree with every word he said. I describe him as my noble and learned friend in every sense of the term—I hope that is not misunderstood. I also agree with everything said by the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys.

What I find difficult to understand is why this Bill has received the legislative consent of the Scottish Parliament—which is usually more reluctant to give consent—and not that of the Welsh Parliament. I can only assume that it is because the noble Lord, Lord O’Shaughnessy, kissed the Blarney Stone before he went to Edinburgh again, and was able to persuade them. I am interested to know why and will try to find out from my contacts in Scotland before Report.

I suspect that a lot of the points made about the omissions in this Bill have arisen because this legislation, like much of the legislation we are considering at present, is being rushed because of Brexit, without proper consideration being given. I do not blame the officials, who have so much work to do. I went to a briefing they held right at the start of this process and I know that they work very hard. However, I would rather see them doing more constructive work than some of what they are being required to do on Brexit.

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hain—and I find this not only in health but in a lot of other areas—that some officials, particularly at the higher level in Whitehall, still have not come to terms with devolution; they do not quite understand what it means, or that the health service in Scotland is run completely by the Scottish Parliament. It is difficult for those officials who have been involved since before devolution to understand that fully. I hope that we will do more to get the message across as we move forward. I hope that the next Government, of whatever shade—a non-Conservative Government; I will put it that way—take more care of the devolved settlements.

The noble Lord, Lord O’Shaughnessy, said that he has had discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport in Scotland, Jeane Freeman. The Minister has taken over very recently and will not yet have had time to do this, but can she assure us that she will have an opportunity to meet with Jeane Freeman to discuss this issue between now and Report? I hope she will be able to report back to us in more detail on the attitudes of the Scottish Parliament and let us know whether it is satisfied on some of the points that have been raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, and my noble and learned friend Lord Wallace of Tankerness.

Blood Safety and Quality (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Wednesday 19th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord O’Shaughnessy) (Con)]

With the leave of the House—perhaps more in hope than expectation—I would like to move the three Motions standing in my name on the Order Paper en bloc.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Object.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, this is yet another one. I will take up the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, and look forward to attendance at Grand Committee in future, where I will do as I did on the aviation statutory instrument yesterday and seek to have it negatived so that we can have a proper debate on the Floor of the House. The Government are sneaking through Grand Committee very important matters which affect this country and there is no proper debate on many of them, which is unfortunate. As my noble friend on the Front Bench said, if the House of Commons had had an opportunity to vote, we could have eliminated the possibility of no deal and freed up civil servants to get on with productive work, which is what they should be doing and what they would like to do.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

Perhaps the noble Lord should consider attending some of these debates. We had a very good debate, attended by Front-Benchers of the Liberal Democrats and the Labour Party as well as Cross-Benchers, about these incredibly important regulations which are designed to provide continuity to people who rely on such things as blood and organs and the ability to exchange information for surrogacy purposes—which we want to encourage. While I respect the noble Lord’s right to do what he is doing, it is not a good use of time. It would have been better spent if he had engaged in our debate last week.

Vaping

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Tuesday 13th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The right reverend Prelate is right. However, as I say, we do not see evidence of what is going on in the States happening in this country. The reason for that is that we have many more restrictions, and the US is now playing catch-up by introducing them.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that one of the consequences of the welcome ban on smoking in public places is that when you go out of a hospital or an airport you face a curtain of smoke and a carpet of fag ends? Will the noble Lord, as Health Minister, with his colleagues, do something about ensuring that that does not take place and that there are secluded places for people to smoke where the rest of us do not have to go?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I agree with the noble Lord from personal experience. Organisations are encouraged to make sure that there are outside places for people to smoke which are in discreet areas and do not interrupt others.

Personal Social Care: Funding

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Tuesday 16th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I am not sure that a trial is required; what is needed is a systematic change in the way we do things for everybody. I am interested to hear what the noble Baroness says about the under-65s. One thing I can tell the House is that the Green Paper we will publish this year will deal with adults of not only retirement age but working age. Those were two separate streams that were working in parallel, but they will be contained within the same Green Paper.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

With respect, the Minister has not answered the question he was just asked. Free personal care has been implemented to a large extent in Scotland. How is it possible to do it there but not here?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

It is the Scottish Government’s decision to do that. Of course, they receive higher public funding per citizen than we do in England, and we make different decisions, just as we have on higher education funding and so on. As I said to the noble Baroness, the details of the proposal will be set out in the Green Paper during the year, and I am afraid that the noble Lord will have to wait.

Health: Medical Respite for Children

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Wednesday 21st March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness is quite right. Local authorities and CCGs have a number of responsibilities. We are applying pressure and making clear to all bodies that they have those responsibilities. We have of course provided funding through local authorities and CCGs for that to happen, and we expect it to.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, further to the question from my noble friend Lady Royall, I have great respect for the Minister but how can we believe what he says about enough money being available when health authority after health authority throughout the country says that not enough money is available and some of them are forecasting deficits? Who is right, the Minister or those who are running our health service?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I do not deny for a minute that the health sector is under pressure—I have never once pretended that that is not the case. There is growing demand in all areas, whether that is children, adults or older people. We have provided more funding year on year during a difficult time of fiscal retrenchment, and indeed the Budget provided more money. Of course there is more to do, but I think that what I have said shows our commitment to funding the NHS as much as we can.

Brexit: Health Policy

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Wednesday 6th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness is right about the important role that EU workers play in the NHS, and I pay tribute again to the work that they do. We value them and want them to stay. We are in a position with the stock of EU workers here—and, equally, UK workers in other health systems—to recognise those qualifications. Clearly we will have to agree to continue doing that as part of the future negotiations. It has to be said that some concerns have been expressed by bodies such as the GMC about how that operates. We are working with them to make sure we get that right.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, could the Minister remind us what the effect of Brexit has been on the location of the European Medicines Agency?

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

The European Medicines Agency will be moving to Amsterdam.

Mental Health Services: Children and Adolescents

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Monday 17th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I know that the noble Countess feels passionately about this issue, but she will know that it is only right for me to say that we need to be guided by evidence that is collected in clinical reviews. A review is being carried out by NICE at the moment and we shall wait to see the results of that before deciding what needs to happen as a consequence in terms of the kinds of treatments that are appropriate for those suffering from ME.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister has answered both this Question and indeed the previous one in his usual effective manner. However, I wonder if he could tell us on behalf of which half of the Cabinet he is speaking.

Older Persons: Care and Human Rights

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Tuesday 11th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I refer noble Lords to my entry in the register of interests.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord O'Shaughnessy) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I congratulate the noble Lord on leading the production of this report. The Government are pleased to note its publication and look forward to contributing to the response. This Government’s ambition is to make the UK a good place for everyone to grow old, and we have put in place a programme of reforms across health, care, housing and other services to support older people to live independent and fulfilling lives.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, I have no doubt at all about the Minister’s sincerity on this, but he will know that in the last few weeks Age UK, the Care Quality Commission, the King’s Fund and the Local Government Association have all produced reports showing problems and failings in the provision of services for older people in the United Kingdom. Will Her Majesty’s Government now discuss with civil society the implementation of the recommendations contained in the report?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I certainly pay tribute, as the noble Lord does in the foreword of the report, to the growing trend towards strengthening the protection of older persons’ human rights. He is also right to highlight today and in the report that there are still widespread negative stereotypes. The Government are proud to lead the world in tackling age discrimination, and we published in February a strategy called Fuller Working Lives on that purpose. We are taking many actions to fulfil the requests in his report; one particular one that I would focus on from a health perspective is the fact that, by 2020, all medical curricula will include training for geriatrics, so there will be that additional support throughout the entire NHS.

National Stroke Strategy

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Wednesday 5th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness is of course right that the strategy had that galvanising effect. As I said, it has been superseded by a broader cardiovascular strategy, which is leading to some of the improvements that I have discussed. The other thing to focus on is the fact that stroke is now being included in the new urgent and emergency care standards that are being introduced, which will ensure, and indeed require, that all stroke patients are seen within 14 hours by consultants who are stroke specialists. That is precisely about ironing out some of the discrepancies in actual practice that happen across the country.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, although I would hesitate to disagree with the noble Lord, Lord McColl, and his very helpful obesity advice, I fear that he is completely wrong in relation to public expenditure on the NHS in Scotland. If he had read today’s Scottish edition of the Times, he would know that it is being slashed in Scotland and that Scotland is facing problems in the health service even greater than those in the rest of the United Kingdom. Could the Minister apportion the blame? Is it the United Kingdom Government not giving enough money to Scotland, or is it the Scottish Government getting their priorities wrong—or maybe both?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

Can I first say how slim the noble Lord is looking? I do not think that it is a case of apportioning blame. All health systems, not just in the UK but around the world, are facing pressure from an ageing and growing population and from the incidence of lifestyle diseases. We are all trying to deal with them as best we can.

Adult Social Care: Funding

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Thursday 16th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

As I said to the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, the Green Paper has a wide remit. It is trying to provide a comprehensive solution to social care funding, which has unfortunately eluded many Governments. In doing so, it naturally needs to look particularly at the interaction between health and social care. For many people now there is no particular distinction between those as they follow their journey, as it were, through the health and care system. The important thing is that the care is joined up and is of high quality.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that he does not need to go as far as Germany and Japan to find good examples of this? Could he go up to Scotland, in particular to Ayrshire, and talk to Ian Welsh, the chair of the NHS health and social care partnership? That is a very good example of two bodies working together under a joint budget and joint administration. If the Minister were to take a few days off and go up there, I think he would find it very valuable.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I will speak to the Chief Whip about taking a few days off. I thank the noble Lord for bringing that point to my attention. As he says, there are examples in the UK—in Scotland, England and Wales, and of course Northern Ireland has a joined-up system too—so clearly there are lessons to be learned from home.