Sewel Convention

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Monday 13th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

Unsurprisingly, I do not agree with that. We will of course continue to seek legislative consent, take on board views and work with the devolved Administrations, but the legislative consent process did not change and never was intended to change the sovereignty of this Parliament.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, earlier today, talking with some of his senior colleagues, I commended the Minister for his great ability to straight-bat my consistent questions about improper spending by the Scottish Government. However, will the Minister and the Government now consider drawing up contingency plans to make sure that when that expenditure goes beyond the pale, they are able to take some action?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I always consider the interventions of the noble Lord to be consistent, and to require a straight bat. We do understand when it is a reserved matter and when it is a devolved matter, and we will obviously look very carefully at how the Scottish Government spend their money.

Prime Minister: Meeting with First Ministers of the Devolved Governments

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Wednesday 8th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government when the Prime Minister next expects to meet with the First Ministers of the devolved governments; and what subjects are expected to be on the agenda.

[The Minister of State, Home Office and Department for Levelling Up, Housing & Communities (Lord Greenhalgh) (Con)]

My Lords, the new Prime Minister and heads of devolved Governments council commits to meeting at least annually as part of the Review of Intergovernmental Relations published in January. The inaugural council will meet to consider issues of strategic importance to the whole of the UK, and the Prime Minister may also engage with the First Ministers in other fora, as he did four times last year.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his reply, but does he agree that devolution means that devolved authorities should be spending money only on the devolved areas and that any spending on reserved areas would be improper? Can the Government now consider monitoring the expenditure of the devolved authorities to ensure that they are not spending money on reserved areas, as the Scottish Government are? They are spending £20 million on the constitution, including employing civil servants to prepare for a referendum and for breaking up the United Kingdom. Should this not be on the agenda for the next meeting between the Prime Minister and the First Ministers?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

I take the point that the noble Lord has made on a number of occasions. It is clearly an important issue to maintain the union. The devolution settlement set out those responsibilities that fall within devolved and reserved competence. Scottish Ministers are accountable to their own legislature and electorate for their actions, including their expenditure decisions.

Levelling-up Report

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Thursday 19th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I think it is for one of my colleagues to explain that decision, but it is clear that the healthy life expectancy metric—to increase it by some five years by 2030—remains, and the Government need to do all they can to achieve that.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Does the Minister not agree that, whatever the metrics are, the major decisions as far as England is concerned will still be made in Whitehall? Is it not necessary to give to the regions of England real powers over transport and economic development, and all the administrative powers that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have? Until the decisions are made in regional centres, there will be no real levelling up.

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

As someone who spent 16 years in local government, I am obviously a great fan of devolution. But it is very clear that, by 2030, every part of the United Kingdom that wants a devolution deal with powers will be offered one. That will be the highest level of devolution we have ever had in this country, and that is certainly a step forward.

Building Safety Defects

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Monday 7th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I respectfully disagree. The original purpose of the Building Safety Bill, which remains its primary purpose, is to fix the regulatory system that patently failed in 2017 for future buildings, and essentially to create in law a high-risk regime for high-rises, where we have seen these tragedies approximately every 10 years. We also recognise, as has been raised by many noble Lords, that we need to ensure that we protect leaseholders and get polluters to pay. That is why we are bringing forward these amendments at this time. They are two wholly different matters.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, although some progress has been made for England under the sustained and excellent pressure of my noble friend Lord Kennedy of Southwark, there is not the same kind of progress in Scotland, which is falling behind? Will the Minister have a word with Ministers in Scotland and use his—I was going to say use his not inconsiderable weight.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

There might be some pots and kettles there, especially from me. Will he use his considerable powers of persuasion to see whether Scots Ministers can follow the lead that he has given?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, this problem extends to all four nations. I meet regularly with my counterparts in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. In fact, there is quite a lot to be learned from Wales, I have to say. Indeed, I will engage and take that advice forward.

Building Safety Defects

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Wednesday 5th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

It is not arbitrary; it is well established that 18 metres is the cut-off point for a high-rise building. It helps us to categorise buildings. We do it in storeys as well. We have had The Cube, which I think was 17.5 metres in height rather than 18 metres, so it is anything above six storeys. But it helps us to understand the scale of the problem. The reality is that the scale of the problem is far greater in high-rise buildings; you cannot get ladders up tall buildings. As many will know, when it comes to firefighting— I happen to be the Fire Minister as well—it is much harder to help evacuate high-rise buildings than medium or low-rise ones. Therefore, I think it is right to have this line. But we will have something called a PAS 9980 that will help to risk assess the problem, irrespective of height, and that will be introduced shortly.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, the Minister has effectively conceded that this has dragged on for far too long. He said in reply to the question from my noble friend Lord Kennedy that his right honourable friend—not him, as the responsible Minister—is going to make a detailed announcement soon. Could he tell the House when that announcement will be made? People want to know.

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

When it has happened, people will know. But it is important to understand that this department, under the leadership of the Secretary of State, has worked incredibly hard to come up with a comprehensive response to this crisis. As I have said already in this House, it has taken decades to come to this point, and we have needed some months to come forward. That announcement will be happening very soon; I will not use the “in due course” line.

Smoke-free Pavements

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Wednesday 24th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for making the point about how progress has been made and that it has been on a national basis. However, as someone who spent 20 years in local government— 16 as a councillor and four in City Hall as deputy mayor—I know that sometimes it is right to recognise that we do not have problems equally on a national basis. Smoking rates are higher in the north of England, so let us learn from there first before we take the next step.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I recall the intense pressure that was put on me in the 1980s when I introduced a Bill to ban smoking in public places. Will the Minister tell us what representations and meetings he and his colleagues in his and other departments have had with representatives of the tobacco industry? If he cannot tell me today, will he write?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I will have to write on that engagement because I will not be able to give a sufficiently accurate answer now. I am happy to do that.

Prime Minister: Meeting with First Ministers

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Wednesday 20th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

The noble and right reverend Lord should understand that there is a three-tiered form of engagement: there are portfolio-level meetings, cross-cutting issues and then the Prime Minister meeting with First Ministers and the Deputy First Minister. The sheer volume of meetings indicates that there are plenty of fora to ensure that we deal with the issues at the appropriate level of engagement, whether at the bottom tier or in meetings with the Prime Minister.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I would like to suggest something for the agenda for the next meeting. Could the Minister ask the Prime Minister—nicely—to put on the agenda ways of ensuring that money allocated by the Treasury for devolved areas is spent properly on those areas, not improperly on reserved areas?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

There is a clear political point there, but also a practical point. We must spend money for its intended purposes, which is why we have bodies such as the National Audit Office to ensure that taxpayers’ money is properly spent. We need to look into how we can have a similar regime for devolved Governments.

Minister for Intergovernmental Relations

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Monday 18th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

The noble Lord is right that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has a number of responsibilities, but he takes his ministerial responsibilities with regard to the union extremely seriously, with monthly meetings with all the devolved Governments and First Ministers. I also remind the noble Lord that the Prime Minister is the Minister for the Union and, at this moment, he is speaking to First Ministers. So that engagement is real, and we will continue to work very closely with all the devolved Governments.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, intergovernmental relations are a two-way street. Is the Minister aware that, in Scotland, the devolved Government are spending money on areas that are not devolved, including millions of pounds on overseas offices? Why are the UK Government afraid to bring them into line?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for raising this issue. It is quite clear that you need to have the competence to spend taxpayers’ money. The best way in which to rein them in is, of course, to win at the ballot box.

Tower Blocks: Cladding

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Wednesday 12th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, we made it a condition of accessing any form of government funding that building owners should go through all the routes of redress, in terms of looking at warranties and taking on areas where there has been poor construction practice, to ensure that remediation costs are not passed on to leaseholders.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

The Minister’s replies are entirely unsatisfactory. It is now nearly four years since 72 people died on the altar of private profit. Since then, there have been three further instances —in Barking, in Bolton and now this one in Poplar. It is not just a matter of cladding over 18 metres; it is much more than that. When will the Government fully fund all the measures necessary to make these buildings safe before more lives are lost?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I note the point that has been made, but it is interesting to note that, four years after Grenfell, two authorities are still discovering the existence potentially of additional buildings with aluminium composite material. Those audits are being conducted by Sheffield, which is looking at nine buildings, and Tower Hamlets, which is looking at a further six. The discovery of ACM-cladded high-rises four years after Grenfell is also a matter that is, frankly, beyond the Government’s control.

Northampton Town Football Club

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Wednesday 3rd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, there is a trend towards an increasing reliance on commercial income as a way of balancing the books. Therefore, the Government are doing two things. We are undertaking a complete review of the prudential framework that governs loans of this nature, and the Public Works Loans Board has changed the lending conditions to ensure that local authorities cannot take on debt as a way of pursuing commercial income.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, the Minister is missing the point. Will he confirm that David Mackintosh was leader of the council when this loan, which is the subject of irregularities, was made, and that the chairman of Northampton Town Football Club and some of the businessmen associated with it then gave money to David Mackintosh’s election account when he stood as a Tory Member of Parliament? These donations were not declared, and the Electoral Commission has asked the police to investigate this as well. Will the Minister explain what the police are doing, when they will report, and when the Conservative Party will admit that this has been a terrible scandal on its watch?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, if there are criminal matters, it is for the police to investigate those, and it is for the Electoral Commission to investigate any other wrongdoings. It is important that we learn the lessons of this, so that it does not happen again, and that the recommendations that follow from the public interest report are carried out in full.

Almshouses

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Thursday 22nd October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op) [V]]

My Lords, if the Government gave some money to these almshouses, it would not only provide safe and secure accommodation for more older people but would free up larger accommodation for families with young children. I do not think the Minister answered the question from the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London: will they seriously consider giving financial assistance to the almshouses to enable them to look after more older people?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, respectfully, I feel that the almshouse movement is an extension of philanthropy which sits outside the state social housing system. There are some that elect to be registered providers. It is important to recognise that the Government are providing a great deal of support towards the new build of affordable housing, both intermediate and social. Of course we want to see almshouses continue to thrive, and I point out that in recent years we have seen the greatest growth in modern times—since the Victorian era—so something is going right with regard to new build.

Devolution in England

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Tuesday 22nd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration they are giving to further devolution in England.

[The Minister of State, Home Office and Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (Lord Greenhalgh) (Con)]

We intend to publish the devolution and local recovery White Paper in the autumn. This will set out our plans for expanding devolution across England to support economic recovery and levelling up, building on the success of our directly elected combined authority mayors.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that while there is major devolution of powers to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, there is a democratic deficit in England? So will the White Paper, when it comes out, include the devolution of real power to major regions throughout the whole of England?

Planning Process: Probity

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Lord Greenhalgh

Tuesday 16th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh]

To be absolutely clear, those discussions over the development simply did not occur. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State was seated next to Mr Desmond. That was not of his choosing. The matter was raised by Mr Desmond and the Secretary of State refused to comment on the planning application. The position that we are now in is that to ensure that there is no inference of bias, as I said in a previous answer, this matter will be determined, as agreed, with the Mayor of London and the planning authority for Tower Hamlets.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, with respect, the Minister has not answered any of the questions put by my noble friends and others. Unless he does so now, will the House and the public not be justified in considering that the £12,000 that Richard Desmond gave to the Tory party at that Carlton Club dinner will be seen as cash for influence?

[Lord Greenhalgh]

With respect, I have been absolutely clear that fundraising by political parties is currently highly regulated and all the fundraising issues associated with this have entirely been followed. The Secretary of State was not aware that he was going to be sitting next to Mr Desmond, but made that fact and the fact that he refused to engage in a discussion on that specific planning application known to the department. Therefore, I can guarantee that the Secretary of State behaved with absolute probity and takes his duties as Secretary of State responsible for these planning matters seriously.