Brexit: Devolved Administrations

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 24th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they have had with the devolved administrations regarding Brexit.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Baroness Anelay of St Johns)]

My Lords, we are clear that the devolved Administrations should be fully engaged in our exit from the European Union. We are in discussions with them—both on our negotiations with the EU and on the domestic implications of exit—bilaterally and through the Joint Ministerial Committee on EU Negotiations, which met most recently this month. We will continue to engage the devolved Administrations as we seek a deal that works for the entire United Kingdom.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, since the Irish border is the most intractable of the many problems of Brexit, and since a resolution needs the approval of the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly, neither of which is attending these joint ministerial meetings, how can any agreement be achieved while they remained suspended?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord points to one of the issues of concern to all Members of both Houses. It should be possible as soon as maybe to achieve a resolution to the constitutional position in Northern Ireland. It is for everybody’s benefit that they do so. In the meantime, with regard to engagement with the devolved Administrations, we continue to work closely with the Northern Ireland Civil Service at an official level on all the technical aspects.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

Not good enough.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Lord thinks it is not good enough. As a Government, we stand ready to assist as far as possible in resolving the position in Northern Ireland. Clearly it is not a matter to be taken lightly, and we do not.

Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 13th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will publish a comprehensive timetable for Brexit negotiations with the European Union; and whether they will make publicly available all position papers and all other documentation and correspondence relevant to those negotiations.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK and EU teams have agreed a broad timetable for the Brexit negotiations, which has been published on the GOV.UK site. This provides indicative dates for negotiation rounds and acts as a framework rather than a hard timetable to progress discussions as effectively as possible. All published information about the negotiations is being made available on the DExEU website, at www.gov.uk.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

I am really grateful to the noble Baroness for her helpful answer. She will agree with me that it is the European Union Select Committee of this House that does the detailed work on this issue, but does she share my disappointment that the Secretary of State is not going to give regular reports to that Select Committee on the progress of the negotiations? Is it not a double disappointment that he also refuses—as he said to me again yesterday— to allow the noble Baroness to stand in on his behalf to give reports on the negotiations? Will she ask him to think again on this? As far as we are concerned in this House, we have faith in the noble Baroness doing that job properly.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, both the Secretary of State and I have made clear our commitment to the value of parliamentary scrutiny. Last night, in the excellent debate that we had in this House, I was able to put on record our commitment and to make it clear that there is, perhaps, a little bit of misinformation and misunderstanding about the way in which Ministers have been appearing before Select Committees. What has happened is that, when Ministers—whether it is the Secretary of State, me or another—appear in front of a Select Committee, the officials supporting us are the negotiators. Therefore, it was important that not only are we responsible to Parliament but we ensure that the negotiations can proceed. It is that balance that we have sought to maintain, which is why the Secretary of State has made it clear that, having appeared once just recently in July, he will be appearing again fairly shortly before the Select Committee of this House and before the Brexit committee in another House. There have also been 14 other ministerial appearances—all to make sure that we keep our position and that parliamentary support is properly carried out.

Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 7th September 2017 Grand Committee

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I have to say, I listened with belief to what my noble friend said on that. I am glad that he said it, not me. We are going to maintain our undertaking to serve Parliament as well as we humanly can.

My noble friend Lord Balfe made a point about the problem with information. Everyone wants it but there is a huge amount of it and how do we get it, particularly in the recesses? I do have an answer. My own department arranges that there is information on its website. It is the go-to place for everything that we do on Brexit. I do not want to put my noble friend off but at GOV.UK/dexeu there are 133 announcements, seven position papers, five future partnership papers and two White Papers. Of course, the European Commission site updates its papers.

The advantage of our website is that after each negotiating round we update the papers. As I mentioned on the Floor of the House this week with regard to the citizenship paper, it means that the joint EU-UK position paper—the annexe that has been published, which shows the red/amber/green system—actually shows how that has been advanced at the latest negotiating stage, not only the further agreement that has been reached but where each of the negotiating groups has agreed that it needs to do more. It is not just us, it is the Commission as well, but we are more forward-leaning. For example, on citizens, after the August round a further 20 lines of detail were added. More than half of those are where we are making more of an offer than the European Commission is.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

We all accept on this side—and, I think, on all sides—that the people who can best deal with the detail are those on the European Union Select Committee. They have all the background, they are working on it week in, week out. The Minister has still not explained why David Davis refused to appear before our Select Committee when we offered to meet—as we know, Select Committees can meet even when Parliament is not sitting. Why did he refuse to meet us?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My next page turns to Select Committee appearances. The key to explaining the Secretary of State’s position is in the letter he wrote on 9 August to the noble Lord, Lord Jay. I am delighted he has been able to participate here. I want to address his very careful points in a moment, but first I will refer briefly to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, because I do not want to run out of time and the intervention of the noble Lord, Lord Jay, was crucial.

In that letter from 9 August, my right honourable friend said that,

“I want to emphasise that I fully recognise the critical role the Committee plays in scrutinising our withdrawal from the European Union. It is for that reason I am clear that, as the Secretary of State who represents the UK in Brussels, I should personally update the Committee on the progress of negotiations.”

He goes on to talk about how. At the meeting of the committee in July, he made it clear that he would consider how best he could do that and balance that duty against the range of other committees. I would say, very carefully of course, that since my department was created, just 15 months ago, Ministers from my department have given evidence to Select Committees, covering a range of EU exit-related inquiries, on no less than 16 occasions. We will not step back.

I address the noble Lord, Lord Jay, because I feel it is vital to do so in my last two minutes. I thank him for the letter he wrote to the Secretary of State, which he kindly copied to me. I have made it clear that my department and I fully support the work of committees in both Houses in fulfilling their scrutiny responsibilities and that we will continue to value the work of the noble Lord’s committee as it conducts its Brexit-related inquiries.

The Secretary of State has given his commitments to update us after each round and will do so with a Statement, as he said. It is no small commitment to update the House after each negotiation round and, no less importantly, to take questions from Members. I want to give all Members of the House the opportunity to scrutinise progress in the negotiations and the Secretary of State has made it clear that he is happy to give evidence to the committee in the autumn.

I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Jay, will appreciate that the complexity of the negotiations—he was head of the Foreign Office so knows about the difficulties of the issue—demands a level of flexibility to ensure that they are conducted successfully, and that rigid committee appearances at fixed intervals may run counter to that. I appreciate there has been some joshing about what my right honourable friend may or may not do. What he does do is properly respect Parliament and scrutiny. I look forward to seeing the noble Lord, Lord Jay, later today when I am sure I will have the opportunity to explain in more detail why the Government are taking that approach.

Gibraltar

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 3rd April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My noble friend has a long history of professionalism in this as a previous Minister. He is absolutely right.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, the reply to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, was entirely unsatisfactory. Does the Minister not realise that if Brexit goes ahead there will be not just one land border with the European Union, in Northern Ireland, but two, because Gibraltar will also have a land border with the European Union? Why was that not included in the six-page letter outlining our priorities? Surely, if we have an ex-leader of the Conservative Party pontificating on it, it must be a priority. Why was it not included in the letter?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is because we take it so seriously that we did not mention simply one aspect in that letter, which, as the noble Lord will be aware—I am sure he has read it in detail—set out general principles, all of which apply to Gibraltar. We are taking our negotiations very seriously and taking every step along the way the opportunity to consult and reflect with Gibraltar on how the discussions will go ahead. Border issues are of course key to our negotiations.

Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting 2018

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 5th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I welcome the idea that my noble friend proposes about how the parliamentarians from overseas may use CHOGM itself. It is important that our colleagues around the Commonwealth—the other 51 countries—are exposed to the views of their own parliamentarians and take note of them but are also exposed to the views of civil society. In my negotiations and my contacts with my colleagues around the Commonwealth, as we talk and consult with them about the agenda, I shall certainly take forward my noble friend’s idea.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the CPA UK executive. Since the Commonwealth consists almost entirely of parliamentary democracies, should not there be much more involvement of Parliaments in CHOGM? There is very little at the moment, and there has been very little. Surely, the fact of it meeting in the United Kingdom provides us with the opportunity to set a very good example.

EU: British Nationals Resident Overseas

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 28th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, clearly, those who are negotiating the terms of our relationship with the European Union will do that work, with a very firm view about the importance of preserving the rights of British citizens wherever possible. I feel sure that whoever is the next leader of the Conservative Party and Prime Minister will put first and foremost in his or her mind the importance of bringing the country together and getting the best deal possible. Therefore, I cannot give any details in answer to the first part of the noble Baroness’s question. On the unit that is being set up, the Prime Minister and my noble friend the Leader of the House made it clear yesterday that the brightest and best from across government, but also from outside government, will be brought together to ensure that ground work is done in order that, when there is a new Prime Minister and new Government, the negotiations can go ahead.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, although I agree with the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, will the Minister agree that if we go ahead and withdraw from the European Union, it would be quite wrong for someone who lives, let us say, in the south of France, to continue to be a Member of this House?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I do not think that this House has ever taken action against noble Lords because of the country in which they live. That introduces a new prospect, but it would be a matter for the House and not for the Government.

Commonwealth Countries and Overseas Territories: European Union

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 14th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

As is so often the case—perhaps every single time—my noble friend is absolutely right.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

If the Government were to have a meeting in London of representatives from the overseas territories, how would the delegates from St Helena get here?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am always impressed by the ingenuity of those who wish to attend meetings. However, the noble Lord makes a very important point. It is important that the Government continue to look very carefully at securing communications with St Helena, partly because of the implications it has for the St Helenians who live on Ascension Island. He is absolutely right.

European Union Referendum (Date of Referendum etc.) Regulations 2016

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 2nd March 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, before us today are two Motions, each of which goes to the heart of the United Kingdom’s place in the European Union. The first is a statutory instrument that, in light of the UK’s renegotiated relationship with the European Union, would set the date for the referendum. The second refers to a document published and laid before this House on Monday 22 February last week that sets out the terms of this new relationship.

I shall take each Motion in turn, but perhaps I may be forgiven if I start by saying how much I am looking forward to hearing today the maiden speech of my noble friend Lord Gilbert of Panteg.

The statutory instrument is required to set the date of the referendum. Given the deal achieved by the Prime Minister, it is time to give the British people their say. The Prime Minister has announced his intention to do so on 23 June, but it is for Parliament, in this House and the other place, to approve that date. The statutory instrument gives this House the opportunity to give its approval today.

The instrument does several other things, which I shall come to. First, let me set out why the Government believe that 23 June is the right day for the poll. The date strikes the right balance between having a proper debate and a timely vote. Any sooner and we risk unduly curtailing the campaign. Any later and we risk testing the patience of the British people. We have to take account of what is real in human life outside the world of politics. Shortly after 23 June, schools start to break up for the holidays. Whereas I know noble Lords will continue to work after that—I do not know, I assume so; we normally do—it would certainly be seen as awkward if we held the referendum while people were on holiday over the summer. That has not been a popular proposal in the past. Delaying beyond late June would mean delaying a referendum until September or October. The British people would quite rightly expect to have their say sooner than that.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, I had the opportunity yesterday of asking the Minister informally about the problem that might arise if the Queen’s Speech was to take place during the course of the referendum campaign and she kindly dealt with that. There was a report this morning that the Queen’s Speech is now going to be held in July. Can the Minister confirm if that is the case?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, who was helpful yesterday in one of the all-Peers briefing meetings that I have held to raise these matters. May I put on the record the answer I gave yesterday and respond immediately to his question? I have seen reports in the press, including in the Times. They have not been substantiated to me. Having been Chief Whip over a period of years, I am certainly aware of the fact that it would be highly unusual for any announcement of the Queen’s Speech date to be made as early as this. There is clearly no decision on that matter. However, the noble Lord raises an important fact about the Queen’s Speech and its interaction with the referendum. There is, I am assured, no inhibition on having the Queen’s Speech during the period of a referendum. That, I hope, underlines the initial answer that I gave yesterday. I am sure there is no let or inhibition on that going ahead.

It is important that people have enough time properly to inform themselves of all the options and to understand the consequences of their vote. Campaigners on both sides of the argument must have enough time to set out their case and have a full and robust debate. We believe that 23 June gives that balance. It also meets the practical requirements of the Electoral Commission. Its assessment of readiness, which was published last week, notes that the date,

“does not pose a significant risk to a well-run referendum”.

As well as setting the date, the statutory instrument also establishes the timing for three key stages of the referendum: the designation process, the regulated referendum period itself and the pre-poll reporting requirements. The House examined all those matters very closely indeed when the referendum Act made its passage through the House. The Electoral Commission’s assessment of readiness endorses the Government’s approach on each of these areas and notes that the arrangements for a well-run referendum are well advanced. This has been echoed by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments and by your Lordships’ Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. Both have given the instrument their usual rigorous scrutiny and both were content with the approach proposed. I am grateful to the members of those committees.

The designation process is the means by which the Electoral Commission appoints lead campaigners on one or both sides. We have followed the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act in allowing a total of six weeks. The application window for campaigners will be open for four weeks from 4 March, were the House to agree later today that the statutory instrument be approved. The Commission then has two weeks, from 1 to 14 April, to decide which, if any, applicants to designate. Many noble Lords here today took an active part in the passage of the Act and will remember that designated lead campaigners receive a number of benefits, including: a higher spending limit, of £7 million; a free delivery of mailings to every household or every elector; and, assuming campaigners are designated on both sides, access to a grant of up to £600,000 and a campaign broadcast. The regulated referendum period follows the designation process, with no overlap of dates. It will run for 10 weeks from 15 April. During this period, full financial and campaigning controls will apply—in particular, spending limits for campaigners. I stress this point because this timetable specifically meets the requests made by Members of this House during the passage of the referendum Act. At that stage, I wrote to the noble Lord, Lord Willoughby de Broke, who will speak today on this very point.

Finally, the statutory instrument sets deadlines for registered campaigners to report any donations or loans to the Electoral Commission. It is the first time in a UK-wide referendum that sources of significant campaign finance will be visible and public before the poll, ensuring real transparency. This process was refined during the passage through this House of the European Union Referendum Act. I must thank in particular the noble Lord, Lord Jay, for leading that debate with his customary eloquence.

At the end of this opening speech, I shall move that the statutory instrument should be agreed to. However, the formal view of the House on that matter will be taken at the very end of proceedings tonight.

I turn now to the EU renegotiation. The British public made it clear that they were not content with the UK’s relationship with Europe. The Prime Minister sought to address that. In November last year, he wrote to Donald Tusk, President of the European Council, setting out in detail the four areas in which he was seeking reform. These were economic governance, competitiveness, sovereignty and welfare, which has been allied with migration in the press. At the February European Council the Prime Minister negotiated a deal covering each of these areas. This deal gives the UK a special status within the EU that no arrangement outside the EU could match. It is a good deal for Britain—as the Prime Minister has said, it is a deal that gives us the best of both worlds.

This agreement is legally binding. It is also irreversible, because it can be amended or revoked only if every single member state of the EU, including the UK, were to agree unanimously to do so. It commits member states to future treaty change. Last week, it was registered with the United Nations as an international treaty.

Taking each of the four issues that the Prime Minister addressed in turn, let me set out briefly what the deal gives us. I appreciate that noble Lords will have had the opportunity to look at the White Paper last week and to have considered other documents published since. On economic governance, the renegotiation secures the UK’s position inside the single market but outside the single currency. It means that we have new commitments from the EU to complete the single market and sign new trade deals. The responsibility for supervising the financial stability of the UK remains in the hands of the Bank of England and other UK authorities. We have made sure that we will never join the euro; British taxpayers will never be required to bail out the eurozone; British businesses cannot be discriminated against for not being in the eurozone. And all discussions on matters that affect all EU member states will involve all EU member states, including the United Kingdom, not just members of the eurozone.

On competitiveness, the renegotiation delivers a new commitment from the European Commission to review annually the burden of regulation on business. If there is too much red tape, we will demand that it is cut. There is a specific focus on relieving the burden on small businesses, and for key sectors. The agreement also makes it clear that the EU will pursue,

“an active and ambitious trade policy”,

and that it must boost its international competitiveness in key areas such as energy and the digital single market.

On sovereignty, we are out of ever-closer union. We will never be part of a European superstate. The text of the renegotiation includes a commitment to change the treaties to exclude the UK from ever-closer union,

“at the time of their next revision”.

We will not be compelled to aim for “a common destination”.

We have obtained new powers to block unwanted European laws: a legally binding agreement that our Parliament can, acting with some others in Europe— 55% of national Parliaments—block unwanted new EU laws with a “red card”. A new mechanism will be created to review existing EU laws to ensure compliance with the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality, so that powers can be brought back to member states wherever possible. National Parliaments will be involved in this mechanism, and the European Commission will also be required to report every year to the Council on its compliance with these principles.

On welfare and migration, an emergency brake will mean that people coming to the UK from within the EU will have to wait four years until they have full access to our in-work benefits. This brake will take effect once the necessary legislation is passed. The European Commission has made it clear that Britain already qualifies to deploy that brake. Migrants from the EU working in this country will not be able to receive child benefit at UK rates if their children live in another EU country.

Let us be clear that much has been said elsewhere about the legal status of the deal. Let me elucidate. This deal is legally binding for EU member states. They all signed up to it in a decision under international law. The February European Council conclusions and the texts of the deal agreed at the Council set this out clearly. They are supported by the legal opinions of both the Council Legal Service and Sir Alan Dashwood QC. The deal is also irreversible because, as mentioned earlier, it can be amended or revoked only if every single member state, including the UK, were to agree unanimously.

The European Court of Justice has held that decisions of this sort must be taken into consideration as being an instrument for the interpretation of the EU treaties. The Council president has confirmed this. He said:

“The 28 Heads of State or Government unanimously agreed and adopted a legally binding and irreversible settlement for the United Kingdom in the EU. The decision concerning a new settlement is in conformity with the Treaties and cannot be annulled by the European Court of Justice”.

This new settlement builds on a number of existing protections and opt-outs which apply to the UK’s membership of the EU. This means that the UK now has a special status within the EU: inside those areas of activity where it is in the UK’s interest, but outside those where it is not. I have already mentioned that we are not under the standard obligation for member states to join the euro. We will always keep the pound. The UK has remained outside the Schengen border-free area, which means that we maintain control over our own borders. The UK has opted out of many measures in the justice and home affairs fields while opting in to those which are essential to protect the security of this country.

Noble Lords will be aware that today we laid before Parliament the latest document intended to inform the public ahead of the referendum. This is the most recent in a series of papers fulfilling those commitments that I made to this House during the passage of the European Union Referendum Bill before it became the Act. There were calls from across the House to ensure that the voters went into this debate with all the information they needed. The Government listened carefully and brought forward amendments to the Bill in response to all the positions put forward by Peers from every Bench around the House.

The first paper is named specifically in the Motion on the Order Paper today—The Best of Both Worlds: The United Kingdom’s Special Status in a Reformed European Union. This fulfils the obligation under Section 6 of the European Union Referendum Act which required the Secretary of State to set out the results of the renegotiations and the Government’s view of them. The second paper details the process of withdrawing from the European Union. Though not specifically mandated in legislation, this paper, published on Monday, about Article 50 meets a commitment I made to the House on Report on 23 November at column 475 of Hansard.

Today, a third paper was published. It sets out the alternatives to membership of the European Union, and sets out unequivocally the Government’s view that none of the alternative models of association with the EU offers anything like such a good balance of advantages, obligations and influence as we get from our current special status within the EU. This paper is the first part of the report that the Government will publish to meet the requirement of Section 7(1) of the European Union Referendum Act 2015. The second part of that report, which will provide information about the rights and obligations that arise as a result of the UK’s membership of the EU, will be laid at a later date—I hope not too much later. Work is ahead. Both parts of the report will be available eventually on the GOV.UK website. Today’s part is on the website and a copy is in the Printed Paper Office. As soon as the second part of the report is available it will immediately go on the website and, again, I commit that it will go into the Printed Paper Office.

The Prime Minister set out last week the Government’s clear recommendation that the United Kingdom should remain a member—

European Council

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 21st December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the European Union Select Committee of this House has made excellent proposals on that, which this Government have endorsed.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, said, is it not a bit embarrassing for the Minister that this matter is being reported to the House only as a PNQ and not being volunteered by the Government, particularly since one of the four things the Prime Minister is supposed to be arguing is greater powers to national parliaments? Will she remind the Prime Minister, and the Leader of this House, that the Government are responsible to Parliament, and not the other way round?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I have no embarrassment because this Government are responsible to Parliament, and my right honourable friend the Prime Minister is making it clear that he will make a Statement in another place. Both Houses will then obviously have an opportunity to comment on it. Perhaps the history books will show that I am wrong but I would be surprised if this House made a Prime Ministerial Statement in recent years when the Prime Minister was not a Member of this House. That would be an unusual step, and one that the Labour Party never took when it was in office. Perhaps the noble Lord will add that to the reforms that the Labour Party proposes for this House—that the Prime Minister can be here, too.

Ukraine

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 23rd February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours, and at his request, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Order Paper.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, on 9 February, the European Union Foreign Affairs Council discussed Ukraine and reconfirmed its decision to apply additional sanctions on a number of Russian individuals. The informal European Council on 12 February also discussed Ukraine and welcomed cautiously the implementation agreement reached in Minsk. The Foreign Secretary has travelled extensively around the EU in recent months. He has raised Russia and Ukraine consistently with his EU counterparts.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, does the Minister recall that on 10 February she told the House that it was up to each individual NATO country to decide whether to supply lethal aid and that it was not the UK’s intention to do so? Is she aware that three days later, 20 armoured vehicles arrived in Ukraine, which President Poroshenko said would be armed and sent to the front to fight? This sale was organised by the Disposal Services Authority of the Ministry of Defence. How does she reconcile that?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am able to reconcile it, but it is still a matter of concern and the noble Lord is absolutely right to raise it. Export licences were agreed in December for the sale of 75 Saxon light-armoured personnel carriers. However, they were not carrying weaponry when we sent them. The exports were assessed fully against the consolidated EU and national arms export licensing criteria. I am aware of the report to which the noble Lord has accurately referred. Twenty vehicles have so far been delivered to the Ukrainian MoD. We are reviewing the licence against the consolidated criteria under the circumstances. The circumstances appear to be that an off-the-cuff record was made by one person to the effect that this non-lethal equipment would be retro-fitted and used. The circumstances in which we supplied it fully kept to the commitment I gave to this House. Our subsequent action is, again, fully in accord with the commitment I gave to this House.

Immigration Bill

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 3rd April 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, before we consider this legislation, perhaps the noble Lord the Leader of the House or the government Chief Whip can explain why we are taking government legislation on a Thursday when we have been given four weeks for Easter and we will not be sitting for a week in which the House of Commons is sitting. Will she confirm that Prorogation will not take place until 21 May, as already announced, and not earlier as rumoured? This House is not here just to consider government legislation; it is here to debate the issues of the day and to hold the Government to account.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes—I will get the pronunciation of his name right in the end. I beg his pardon; as he knows, I have been very punctilious in persuading others of the difference between Faulks, Foulkes and Fookes. The noble Lord raises several questions. First of all, he has been a Member of the House for a very long while. He will therefore know that the Companion sets out very clearly that, from the end of January, Thursdays are used for government business.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

If necessary.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

So it is of course a time when the Thursday debates come to an end. I have been extremely generous, as the House knows, in giving up government time on Thursdays to have debates. We have had more debates this Session than in any other in living memory. That has been welcomed by this House. On this occasion, we have legislation today at the express request of the opposition Front Bench and it is to accommodate that request that I have enabled legislation today and ensured that there will be no legislation next Wednesday, when debates will take place.

The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, referred to Prorogation. He will also know that it is a long-standing practice in Parliament that the Prorogation date is not announced until government business has been secured. Therefore, I am afraid that I have to say gently to him that he is wrong to say that the Prorogation date has been announced by anyone—certainly not by me. I am always most cautious to keep to the conventions and the rules of this House. I ask the noble Lord to exercise his patience a little bit longer until I am able to give him accurate information.

International Development (Gender Equality) Bill

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 20th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a first time.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

I wonder whether the Chief Whip can explain how this Bill is going to be considered in Committee and on Report when every Friday has been hijacked by the Government for the European Union (Referendum) Bill.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Companion says that First Readings are not a matter for debate. On the matter that the noble Lord raised, he referred to the hijacking of the Bill. The Government have not hijacked it. It is a Private Member’s Bill. The hijacking has been carried out by those, including the noble Lord, who have tabled an excessive number of amendments.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 14th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend, I beg to move the Motion standing in his name on the Order Paper.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, I hope that the House will not approve this Motion. Standing Orders are there for a purpose. At the very least, the Leader of the House, or in this case the Chief Whip, should give us reasons for dispensing with this Standing Order. In my view there is plenty of time for this Motion to be discussed and for the proper procedures to be followed, or there would have been had the Government not extended the Easter Recess at short notice and without any prior consultation. This is causing great problems for Members, for the House and for Committees of this House.

Moreover, there is a constitutional problem, because the Commons will be sitting when we are having the third week of our Easter Recess. This is creating problems with Joint Committees that have already evidenced themselves and with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, whose executive were due to meet all-party groups that week. Statements will be made in the other place and will not be able to be repeated here, and we will not be able to take part in debating them.

This will create administrative problems. Already a number of banqueting events have had to be cancelled as a result of this decision. There are legislative problems. A whole raft of Private Members’ Bills is waiting to be discussed, yet we are being sent away for an extra week during the Easter Recess. There are five reports from Select Committees on the Order Paper. There is a long list of Members seeking debates on a wide range of subjects, and Select Committees have deadlines for submitting reports. These are just a few of the problems caused by the unilateral and precipitate decision to extend the Easter Recess.

I mean no disrespect to the noble Baroness, for whom I have great respect, but I am slightly disappointed and surprised that the Leader of the House is not here to explain why we have to take the stages of the Bill together on one day. We could have done it, we could be here and we could be sitting, but we have now been told that we are to have an extra week’s holiday.

I hope the noble Baroness will consider withdrawing this Motion and reconsider the announcement that was made last week.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord is being a little innovative in stretching his comments well beyond the matter on the Order Paper. However, because I am courteous, I will seek to address those in a moment.

First, I assure the House that the noble Lord is completely wrong in his allegation that even if the noble Lord, Lord Hill, were standing here instead of me, this Motion is in any way out of the ordinary. It is absolutely the normal procedure for these matters. The Motion itself simply states that Standing Order 46 should,

“allow the Supply and Appropriation (Anticipation and Adjustments) Bill to be taken through all its remaining stages that day”.

This always happens, regardless of who are in Government. The Supply and Appropriation (Anticipation and Adjustments) Bill is a supply Bill, and it has been certified as a money Bill. The noble Lord, of course, was in another place, and he knows as well as anyone what the rules are with regard to that. He has been in this House a little time, so he will know that this happens every time a money Bill comes forward.

In all processes, all stages are taken formally and there is no substantive Second Reading. Even if we sat from now until kingdom come, the stages would not be taken separately. If noble Lords would like to look at the Companion at some stage—I am not suggesting a mass rush for the Printed Paper Office—they will see that the appropriate entry is at paragraph 8.198.

As I have said, the noble Lord has been a little cheeky, but it is his nature. He has kind of extended this to, “Ey up, why have you decided that we shall have an extra week off?”. Well, it is not quite like that. The job of the Government is to ensure that the time of this House is used to best effect, and it will be so. This House is different from another place. Indeed, it decided that it did not wish to be elected or to ape another place; it wishes to retain its strong independent character. We are going to use time to best advantage, and that can be achieved even by having one extra week after Easter. However, over a calendar year, as noble Lords will know, matters even out.

Motion agreed.

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 4th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, who gave the noble Lord, Lord Geddes, the individual right to shout from a sedentary position about whether or not one small matter in relation to the Companion has been dealt with? Surely, shouting from a sedentary position is not allowed?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, this House is self-regulating, which also means that it conducts itself with self-restraint and follows the guidance in the Companion. I am sure that all noble Lords around the House are keen to do that. It is a good idea to discuss with our Chief Whips how that is best achieved. I know that the Opposition Chief Whip has recently sent to his own Back-Benchers what I consider to be a very helpful guide about what constitutes good behaviour. We should reflect on that. Without pointing fingers, we all should behave in ways that we feel are not becoming of this place. We all want to ensure that we do our job. After all, most people here say that for most of the time we try to do it well.

Business

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 18th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is unfortunate that the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, did not give us advance notice of this. She might have asked a question when my noble friend Lord Sassoon moved his Motion. We do not have business questions in this House as yet. I know my noble friend Lord Sassoon could have made a comment at that time. I am aware that he has put down a written Ministerial Statement on this matter. I am also aware that the noble Baroness was able to meet with the Leader of the House yesterday to discuss this matter. I suggest that those discussions continue.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, another point arises from that. Although the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, answered the first two Questions immaculately, he is only a Whip and not a departmental Minister. When these detailed Questions arise, sometimes the Whips do not seem to be able to answer them.

On the second Question in particular, where was the Minister of State for BIS—the Scarlet Pimpernel of the House of Lords? Why do we never see the noble Lord, Lord Green of Hurstpierpoint? Why does he not come to answer Questions? Why is he not here? He could have answered that Question properly and substantially from the Dispatch Box, but he is not here today. Is it because he is so embarrassed that he was executive chairman of HSBC during the banking scandal?

Scotland Bill

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 26th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, something has clearly gone wrong in the transmission because I was not aware that my noble friend was going to make that comment. I know that all those taking part in debate on the Scotland Bill consider it important, as does the rest of the House that may be listening to it. It is a usual channels agreement that the Bill will be concluded by the end of Wednesday evening. We discussed this earlier and that commitment remains. There will be a discussion later among the usual channels about what progress should be made tonight. I am aware that we have just taken two hours on one amendment. That was an amendment very dear to the hearts of those who took part in it, but the overall time allocated to Report was agreed and the intention is to keep to the agreement that Report should be concluded at the end of the Wednesday sitting. As I say, we will shortly be discussing in the usual channels what the last amendment to be considered tonight shall be.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, this Bill has been treated abominably at all stages. On one occasion all of us sat around all day—afternoon and evening—while the welfare Bill went on and on and on. We were led to believe by the government Chief Whip that the Scotland Bill would be taken that day. Then we were told summarily: “You can go, off you go”, as if it was of little concern that the Bill was being dealt with in such a way. It is outrageous. We were then told that we would have the day’s debate today. When did we start? Not until the evening, after a very substantial, albeit important, debate. I am not saying that the debates that took place earlier were not important—but so is the Scotland Bill. It is outrageous that we should be dealt with in such a way.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord is good at perorations. I will simply keep to the facts. I had intended that the Scotland Bill should start today, as first business. The Opposition decided that they wished to have the other debates before it. The House therefore had those debates. I agree that the Scotland Bill was very much disaccommodated by this. It might be convenient if the House were able to listen to me. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, likes interventions, but I wish to conclude what I am saying, which is that it was very difficult on the first day for those waiting for the Scotland Bill because of the time taken by the Welfare Reform Bill. I object to the implication—the clear indication, in fact—that I cared nothing for the Scotland Bill that day. I did care, and we found another date for the Scotland Bill. It is the view of the usual channels that we should continue with this. If the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, wishes to say more he can, but it is a courtesy in this House to let one Member finish speaking before the next gets up.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

The government Chief Whip says that I like interventions. It was I who was speaking and she who intervened. This is the way that we have been treated all the way through the Bill. Over the weekend, I found out that we were going to have an extra week of recess. In that week we could have carried out proper consideration of the Bill. As was pointed out earlier, we did not have the proper time between Committee and Report. We are being treated abominably and it is absolutely disgraceful. The government Chief Whip should realise that it is not the Opposition's responsibility to programme business in this House; it is the Government’s responsibility and it is her responsibility, and she should take the blame as well as the credit.

Welfare Reform Bill

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 15th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, in the debate on this yesterday, the government Chief Whip said:

“I hope that it is noticed that I am stressing Grand Committee, not the Moses Room … I fully recognise that a number of noble Lords who use wheelchairs and have other mobility restrictions would find the Moses Room difficult, and I therefore discarded that as an option”.—[Official Report, 14/9/11; col. 753.]

She went on to describe the options that were being considered by the Director of Facilities. I know that a number of Members, particularly on the Cross Benches, supported the Government on the basis of that assurance. Just before I came into the Chamber, I was told that this information was wrong and in fact the Moses Room is going to have to be used. On the basis that the House made its decision on misinformation, I hope that this matter can now be reconsidered. I hope that the noble Lord the Leader of the House will give an assurance to the House that since we made that decision on the basis of totally incorrect information, it is now right for the House to consider the matter again.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am disappointed that the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, did not seek to alert me to the information that he had, nor has he given any information to justify what he has just said. No doubt whoever said this to him did so in good faith, but they are wrong. The basis upon which the House made its decision yesterday stands.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, for pointing out what is clearly a typographical error. If that is the source of information to which the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, referred, it is a pity that he did not make that clear. He may have other sources of information. The assurance that I gave stands. I am not accustomed to having the veracity of my statements challenged, which is clearly what is happening. This is opportunistic. May we please proceed to the business in hand?

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To be absolutely clear, I am not going to say who it was, but there is no more reliable person in this Chamber than the person who told me.

Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it may be helpful if I remind the House that we are moving into Report and that nothing may be resolved at this moment. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, pointed out that the Opposition have always said that they would complete Report today. That is part of a firm agreement. It was also for the convenience of the Opposition Front Bench that the exchange on Lords consideration of amendments on the EU Bill was moved to today.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords—

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am not going to take an intervention from anybody in the Chamber at the moment. I would be grateful if the noble Lord could sit down because it is a courtesy of this House that two persons do not stand at the same time. I would have thought that somebody who was a Member of another place and of another Chamber might be aware of that. I am pointing out—

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

You stood up.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, I will make two points. First, it is my understanding, in terms of procedure, that in this House as well as in other Houses if a noble Member wants to intervene in the speech of another noble Member it is appropriate to stand, and for the other Member to consider whether or not to give way. I am sure even the Government Chief Whip would recognise that that is the normal procedure.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we have just carried out that procedure correctly, because I did not stand until the noble Lord gave way. I made it clear I was not taking interventions. The noble Lord and I have exchanged views on that on other occasions. This is continuing a debate which leads nowhere. Discussions outside can be fruitful; discussions by the noble Lord continuing now may jeopardise the success of those discussions. Perhaps we might continue in the proper manner in a House that takes its procedure seriously.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

I was making two points. I made my first point and I gave way to the noble Baroness, as appropriate. The second point I want to make—it is open to Members to make these points and I say that to my own Front Bench as well as to other Front Benches—is that when my noble friend the Chief Whip agreed that we should discuss this today it was on the basis that the day started at 3.35 pm. That is, if I can work it out right, five hours ago. Therefore we are not getting a full day in any sense. That is why I agree with noble Members opposite, particularly from the Liberal Democrats, who have indicated their deep concern. If concern is expressed by the Labour Opposition and by the Liberal Democrats I would have thought the Government should take account of that.

Arrangement of Business

Debate between Lord Foulkes of Cumnock and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 20th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, that occurred on each occasion.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, I apologise to the House for the manner in which I raised the issue yesterday. However, on the substance of the issue, I have been overwhelmed by noble Lords from both sides of the House saying they agree with me that it was strange that we had only 20 minutes for Back-Bench questions, and the House was up before 7 pm. There were so many people who wanted to participate in yesterday’s debate, not just on the Labour side but distinguished former service chiefs and many other people with a lot to say. Now we have a Statement on a comprehensive spending review that covers five years and every department of state, but we are getting only an extra 10 minutes. I hope that the Chief Whip will respond positively to my noble friend’s request and say today that they will agree that this matter should be considered in an appropriate way, so that some flexibility is allowed.