Migrants: Barges

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Wednesday 20th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right. Presently, the hotel bill for migrants is in excess of £8 million per day. It is vital that the use of hotels is drawn down and stopped as swiftly as possible. I can reassure my noble friend that the budget is there in the Home Office for the accommodation of migrants. It is equally important that the taxpayer obtains value for money.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, as the Minister has ruled that this Question is about barges only, once it is clear that the barges are safe and there is no danger to health, can he arrange for one of them to be brought up the Thames and moored outside the Houses of Parliament to provide accommodation to Peers from outwith London who are finding that the escalating costs of hotels in London is using up all our daily attendance allowance?

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

I have a certain sympathy for the noble Lord’s point. I can reassure him that the use of barges to house asylum seekers is done routinely by our friends in Europe. The German Government housed asylum seekers on this very barge between 1995 and 1998. The Dutch and Belgian Governments have equally done so. The standard of accommodation is high. The noble Lord will recall that the Scottish Government housed Ukrainian asylum seekers on two vessels in Scotland. I think that one of those vessels, the MS “Victoria”, was used to house policemen during the Olympics. This is civilised living accommodation, and clearly I shall inform the Port of London Authority of the noble Lord’s suggestion.

Support for Migrant Victims

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Wednesday 12th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I have no idea.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, it is impossible to follow that question, so I will follow the question from the Cross Benches. Does the Minister agree that it is very important that the Home Secretary, Ministers in the other place and officials in his department know the views of Members of the House of Lords? My noble friend Lady Gale raised this six months ago. What representations or pressure has the Minister made to or put on the various Home Secretaries we have had in that period, and their officials, about the views of the House of Lords? After today, will he go back and say, “Baroness Gale has raised this again; she has the support of the House and something should be done about it”?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

Noble Lords can rest assured that I will take this back. However, I have heard in many debates in the House in recent weeks calls for more evidence. The fact is that we have evidence and we are considering it carefully. Noble Lords should applaud that.

Cybersecurity

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Monday 3rd July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister and his colleagues in the Home Office, and those in the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office and the Ministry of Defence, for the excellent and detailed briefings they give us on security issues, which are really helpful. What precautions are taken to make sure that this information is not passed, either deliberately or inadvertently, to representatives of the Government of Russia?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, I am afraid I have no idea; I will find out.

Chinese Police Stations in the UK

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Thursday 20th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My noble friend asks a very good question. The UK’s long-standing policy on Taiwan has not changed: we have no diplomatic relations with Taiwan but a strong unofficial relationship which is based, as my noble friend said, on deep and growing ties in a wide range of areas and is certainly underpinned by shared democratic values.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, can the Minister give more details about the situation in Glasgow? Scottish universities are taking in students from China to raise income because there are no fees from Scottish students, and some strange people from China may be getting in under the guise of being students. The Scottish Government have a very strange contract with a Chinese company that is causing grave concern among the public in Scotland. The Scottish Government have been trying to take a greater role in foreign affairs, without the kind of support that the Home Office and Foreign Office have from our intelligence agencies. Can the Minister give an undertaking that the UK Government will talk to the appropriate Scottish Ministers about this issue and make sure that they are dealing with it efficiently and safely?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

The noble Lord will appreciate, as I said before, that I am unable to comment on ongoing operational matters and investigations. I listened carefully to what he said, and rather than make that commitment regarding the devolved Administration myself, I will certainly ensure that my noble friend Lord Offord is aware of his concerns and suggest that he looks into them.

UK-EU: Revised Passenger Requirements

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Tuesday 21st March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, it is for the European Commission to decide when it implements its system. Our system will be ready probably before then, and implementation of the ETA is well advanced. But obviously, it is in everyone’s interest to work closely, and I am pleased to report that we have been very much doing so. Technical meetings are happening today between the United Kingdom and France regarding ongoing co-operation on questions of border control. Clearly, if we can reduce any impact, that assists both the UK and the EU member states.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I am pleased that I have still got a maroon passport, a European passport, whereas my good friend, my noble friend Lord Watson, has got one of these, a blue passport, which I understand is printed and produced overseas. Why can we not produce our own passports any more?

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

I will not castigate the noble Lord for using an exhibit in the Chamber, but perhaps I can say this. We are delighted that passport covers—which are indeed, as I understand it—presently made in Europe, are obtained through a competitive tendering process. We use taxpayers’ money sensibly on this side of the House.

Violence against Women and Domestic Violence

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

Yes, the Government absolutely understand that. I reiterate the point that they are regarded as victims first and foremost. Essentially, the question is: why is there a firewall between police and immigration enforcement? Having considered the evidence from experts in the sector and police representatives, we did not consider that establishing a complete or time-limited data-sharing firewall between the police and the Home Office would meet the joint aims of encouraging victims of crime with insecure status to report crime while maintaining an effective immigration control.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, the Minister said that he was delighted that the Government had ratified this convention. I share his delight, notwithstanding the reservation, but can he tell the House why it took so long?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I can tell the House that if we had not introduced the reservation, it would have taken even longer. As to why it took so long, no, I do not know the answer.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I am not entirely sure how to answer that question. With regard to the firewall, I have just given a very complete answer. I hope that goes some way to answering the noble Lord’s question.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

As the Minister was not able to answer my question, could he write to me with an answer?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I will endeavour to do so, yes.

Public Order Bill

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 16th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)]

My Lords, I will rise slowly to allow the mass exodus from the Chamber of noble Lords who are fascinated by the civil liberty implications of this terrible draft legislation. The exodus is nearly, if not quite, complete.

I have the unhappy duty of opening the first detailed debate on this Bill, which has so many problems. One of them is that it criminalises innocent, legitimate activity in a way that is so vague and broad it risks a great deal of potential injustice. It is really not appropriate for legislators in either place to allow this kind of shoddy work to pass, risking the liberties of our people, many years into the future.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

I am sorry to interrupt at such an early stage. My noble friend rightly said that she has the unhappy duty to move this amendment. It is astonishing that we are considering the Bill and these amendments today. My noble friend has been very much involved in the detailed discussions in relation to the Bill. In view of the outright opposition, right across the country, to some of the provisions in the Bill, have the Government given my noble friend any indication that they propose not to proceed with the Bill? It is outrageous that we continue to consider these details and amendments, and I am sure that my noble friend would agree with me. Surely the Government have had second thoughts on this by now.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

It appears from his general introduction that the Minister is going to proceed with this Bill. Surely, in the light of the overwhelming view on both sides of the House that existing legislation is entirely adequate—with one slight hesitation from the noble Lord, Lord Horam—it is a waste of the Minister’s valuable time and this House’s time to proceed with this. Will he now quickly have a rethink and withdraw this Bill?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

Well, I thank the noble Lord for that, and the answer is, of course, no.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

That is a very clear answer. I wonder whether the Minister could give, perhaps, a sentence or two of explanation as to why he does not think that it would be a wise move to withdraw this Bill, since all its aspects are already covered by existing legislation.

Public Order Bill

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 1st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I am pleased to follow the noble Viscount, although, however tempted I am, I am not going to go down the avenue that he opened up. Instead, I want to pay tribute to my noble friend on the Front Bench, who made a brilliant speech in introducing this debate on our side. It was one of the best I have heard from the Opposition Front Bench. I say so not because of my usual sycophancy, but for two real reasons. First, because it is true—it was a powerful, passionate speech, and I agree with every word of it, which makes my approval of it even better—and, secondly, because he was one of those who slightly raised an eyebrow when some of us challenged this Bill at First Reading. We know that it is not usually done. In fact, it is hardly ever, if ever, done to challenge a First Reading, but some of us felt that there are some provisions in the Bill that are so awful that this House should not even consider them. That is why we took that unusual step, and I am sure my noble friend will understand.

I want now to outline, since we are forced by the Government to consider the Bill, some of the reasons for my opposition. In have been in Parliament for about 43 years, a long time, having served in the other place. I believe that one of our core duties here and there is to protect key democratic rights, now being fought for in Ukraine by the brave people there, and we should not undervalue their importance.

One of them is the right to protest. Some noble Lords who have heard me speaking in foreign affairs debates and asking questions will know that I have highlighted before the various human rights abuses which the brave protesters in Belarus continue to endure. My noble friend Lady Chakrabarti and the noble Lord, Lord Beith, raised the issue of Belarus. I am alarmed to note that many of the proposals in this Bill closely mirror protest laws which are currently enforced by the Lukashenko regime in Belarus. Until we expelled Russia, Belarus was the only country in Europe not to be a member of the Council of Europe, because of its awful regime.

For example, in Belarus anyone who has received a fine for organising a protest or a “related crime” is then forbidden from organising further protests for one year following conviction. The SDPOs in this Bill not only enforce a similarly draconian punishment but will go a step further, preventing not just organising but participating in protests for up to two years, with the potential to renew indefinitely. Furthermore, these SDPOs could be imposed on individuals who have not been convicted of any crime, which could result in a dystopian scenario in which innocent members of the public, as has been said by others, are subject to measures usually reserved for criminals, such as electronic tagging.

Another parallel with Belarus are the new stop and search measures included in the Bill, which would give police the power to conduct stop and search without any suspicion whatever, just because someone is in the vicinity of a protest. This distinctly resembles Lukashenko’s law on mass events, which gives Belarusian authorities the power to search any citizen attending a protest and ban them from participating if they refuse to be searched. We should be very wary of adopting these policies of repression. Belarus’s democracy index is the lowest in Europe. Do we want to sink that low?

I am also troubled by the legality of the Bill since, according to Amnesty International and Liberty—well-reputed third sector organisations—the stop and search powers proposed are incompatible with our existing international obligations under, as was said earlier, both Article 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights and Article 21 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. I am aware that some members of this Government, sadly including the current Home Secretary, have advocated us leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, but surely they cannot also think that we should abandon our commitment to the UN Human Rights Committee.

Let us come to where we are now. I can assume only that the authors of the Bill must believe that the current powers are insufficient. As others have said, that is completely wrong, for in just under 30 days of mildly inconvenient protests by Just Stop Oil there have been more than 600 arrests—54 protesters were arrested on 4 October alone. That does not seem to be a toothless police force.

The police agree with this. As others have said, His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services is on record saying that measures equivalent to the protest ban orders

“would neither be compatible with human rights legislation nor create an effective deterrent”

and that

“a little inconvenience is more acceptable than a police state”.

Surely that is a very powerful argument.

My final issue with the Bill is that, even if it was necessary and the measures were not indicative of the authoritarian creep we have come to expect from this Conservative Government, the vagueness of the wording will target far too broad a range of individuals and behaviours. I imagine most of us agree that carrying a bike lock or some glue in the vicinity of a protest should not be considered a crime. Similarly, criminalising a paramedic who is supervising the safety of a protester seems both dangerous and totally unethical.

This is not a Bill designed to curb the actions of a few disruptive protesters. It goes much further than this and seriously risks harming a liberty that, in this Government’s own words, is unique and precious. These are the worst aspects of the Bill. I believe we should oppose the Bill at every opportunity, and I intend to do so.

Western Jet Foil and Manston Asylum Processing Centres

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Tuesday 1st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her question. Clearly, the process for considering asylum decisions needs improvement—that is something we are committed to—and the appeal rate clearly reflects some mistaken decision-making. However, it is right to say that certain cases on appeal will consider matters that were not before the original decision-maker, so those cases do not reflect a particular error. The statistic itself does not suggest entirely a situation which is indicative of flawed decision-making by Home Office officials. However, as I say, this is an area on which we shall work.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I too welcome the Minister—notwithstanding the fact that he is a lawyer—because he went to a Scottish university, so he must be okay. However, he must appreciate that in 12 years of a Tory Government we have had a lot of rhetoric and promises but very little practical action, except for gimmicks such as the flights to Rwanda that have never taken place. Everything seems to be done to appease Nigel Farage and his cohort, unfortunately, and the awful racists who surround him. To ask the Minister a specific question, he said that he could not have anticipated the huge influx of immigrants, refugees and migrants across the channel. Why not? Why could it not have been anticipated? What are the Government doing now to anticipate what will happen in the future? The Immigration Minister, Robert Jenrick, said on the radio this morning that he expected the figure would be 50,000 by the end of the year. How does he know that? What are the Government doing to try to mitigate that and reduce the numbers?

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

The answer to that, as the noble Lord well knows, is to try to produce policies which deter people from seeking to attempt the dangerous channel crossing. That is precisely why we have entered into this agreement with the Government of Rwanda: to seek to disincentivise people from crossing the channel.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

It is not working.

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

The noble Lord says from a sedentary position that it is not working; the point is that it has not had the chance to work because of the prevailing legal challenge. Once the barriers to the policy are removed and it starts to work, we will see the number of people attempting to cross the channel dropping.

Extradition Act 2003

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Wednesday 29th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The noble Lord goes quite nicely back to one of my noble friend Lord Moylan’s questions about Germany. Germany is not alone in not extraditing its own nationals, but we have processes in place which completely adjust to that fact—it is nothing new and nothing unusual now.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, is there any person in the United Kingdom who is exempt from the extradition provisions?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I know where the noble Lord is leading. I will not comment on that; I will get him an answer in writing to that.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

In writing?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

Yes.