Housing: Leasehold Properties

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Monday 17th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Hanworth (Lab)]

It is a clear issue and I will give the Minister instances of its occurrence.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Is the Minister aware that, notwithstanding the appalling situation of housing in England, there is one part of the United Kingdom where it is even worse? The First Minister of Scotland refuses to visit the Homeless Project Scotland in Glasgow, students are sleeping in hotels and on the floor, and the housing policy in Scotland is engineered by two Ministers who are eccentric members of the Scottish Green Party. Is that not a ridiculous thing? This minority party is driving the policy in Scotland and causing so much hardship.

Sewel Convention

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Monday 13th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

Unsurprisingly, I do not agree with that. We will of course continue to seek legislative consent, take on board views and work with the devolved Administrations, but the legislative consent process did not change and never was intended to change the sovereignty of this Parliament.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, earlier today, talking with some of his senior colleagues, I commended the Minister for his great ability to straight-bat my consistent questions about improper spending by the Scottish Government. However, will the Minister and the Government now consider drawing up contingency plans to make sure that when that expenditure goes beyond the pale, they are able to take some action?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I always consider the interventions of the noble Lord to be consistent, and to require a straight bat. We do understand when it is a reserved matter and when it is a devolved matter, and we will obviously look very carefully at how the Scottish Government spend their money.

Prime Minister: Meeting with First Ministers of the Devolved Governments

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Wednesday 8th June 2022 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government when the Prime Minister next expects to meet with the First Ministers of the devolved governments; and what subjects are expected to be on the agenda.

[The Minister of State, Home Office and Department for Levelling Up, Housing & Communities (Lord Greenhalgh) (Con)]

My Lords, the new Prime Minister and heads of devolved Governments council commits to meeting at least annually as part of the Review of Intergovernmental Relations published in January. The inaugural council will meet to consider issues of strategic importance to the whole of the UK, and the Prime Minister may also engage with the First Ministers in other fora, as he did four times last year.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his reply, but does he agree that devolution means that devolved authorities should be spending money only on the devolved areas and that any spending on reserved areas would be improper? Can the Government now consider monitoring the expenditure of the devolved authorities to ensure that they are not spending money on reserved areas, as the Scottish Government are? They are spending £20 million on the constitution, including employing civil servants to prepare for a referendum and for breaking up the United Kingdom. Should this not be on the agenda for the next meeting between the Prime Minister and the First Ministers?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

I take the point that the noble Lord has made on a number of occasions. It is clearly an important issue to maintain the union. The devolution settlement set out those responsibilities that fall within devolved and reserved competence. Scottish Ministers are accountable to their own legislature and electorate for their actions, including their expenditure decisions.

Levelling-up Report

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Thursday 19th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I think it is for one of my colleagues to explain that decision, but it is clear that the healthy life expectancy metric—to increase it by some five years by 2030—remains, and the Government need to do all they can to achieve that.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Does the Minister not agree that, whatever the metrics are, the major decisions as far as England is concerned will still be made in Whitehall? Is it not necessary to give to the regions of England real powers over transport and economic development, and all the administrative powers that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have? Until the decisions are made in regional centres, there will be no real levelling up.

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

As someone who spent 16 years in local government, I am obviously a great fan of devolution. But it is very clear that, by 2030, every part of the United Kingdom that wants a devolution deal with powers will be offered one. That will be the highest level of devolution we have ever had in this country, and that is certainly a step forward.

Building Safety Defects

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Monday 7th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I respectfully disagree. The original purpose of the Building Safety Bill, which remains its primary purpose, is to fix the regulatory system that patently failed in 2017 for future buildings, and essentially to create in law a high-risk regime for high-rises, where we have seen these tragedies approximately every 10 years. We also recognise, as has been raised by many noble Lords, that we need to ensure that we protect leaseholders and get polluters to pay. That is why we are bringing forward these amendments at this time. They are two wholly different matters.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, although some progress has been made for England under the sustained and excellent pressure of my noble friend Lord Kennedy of Southwark, there is not the same kind of progress in Scotland, which is falling behind? Will the Minister have a word with Ministers in Scotland and use his—I was going to say use his not inconsiderable weight.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

There might be some pots and kettles there, especially from me. Will he use his considerable powers of persuasion to see whether Scots Ministers can follow the lead that he has given?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, this problem extends to all four nations. I meet regularly with my counterparts in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. In fact, there is quite a lot to be learned from Wales, I have to say. Indeed, I will engage and take that advice forward.

Building Safety Defects

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Wednesday 5th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

It is not arbitrary; it is well established that 18 metres is the cut-off point for a high-rise building. It helps us to categorise buildings. We do it in storeys as well. We have had The Cube, which I think was 17.5 metres in height rather than 18 metres, so it is anything above six storeys. But it helps us to understand the scale of the problem. The reality is that the scale of the problem is far greater in high-rise buildings; you cannot get ladders up tall buildings. As many will know, when it comes to firefighting— I happen to be the Fire Minister as well—it is much harder to help evacuate high-rise buildings than medium or low-rise ones. Therefore, I think it is right to have this line. But we will have something called a PAS 9980 that will help to risk assess the problem, irrespective of height, and that will be introduced shortly.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, the Minister has effectively conceded that this has dragged on for far too long. He said in reply to the question from my noble friend Lord Kennedy that his right honourable friend—not him, as the responsible Minister—is going to make a detailed announcement soon. Could he tell the House when that announcement will be made? People want to know.

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

When it has happened, people will know. But it is important to understand that this department, under the leadership of the Secretary of State, has worked incredibly hard to come up with a comprehensive response to this crisis. As I have said already in this House, it has taken decades to come to this point, and we have needed some months to come forward. That announcement will be happening very soon; I will not use the “in due course” line.

Smoke-free Pavements

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Wednesday 24th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for making the point about how progress has been made and that it has been on a national basis. However, as someone who spent 20 years in local government— 16 as a councillor and four in City Hall as deputy mayor—I know that sometimes it is right to recognise that we do not have problems equally on a national basis. Smoking rates are higher in the north of England, so let us learn from there first before we take the next step.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I recall the intense pressure that was put on me in the 1980s when I introduced a Bill to ban smoking in public places. Will the Minister tell us what representations and meetings he and his colleagues in his and other departments have had with representatives of the tobacco industry? If he cannot tell me today, will he write?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I will have to write on that engagement because I will not be able to give a sufficiently accurate answer now. I am happy to do that.

Prime Minister: Meeting with First Ministers

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Wednesday 20th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

The noble and right reverend Lord should understand that there is a three-tiered form of engagement: there are portfolio-level meetings, cross-cutting issues and then the Prime Minister meeting with First Ministers and the Deputy First Minister. The sheer volume of meetings indicates that there are plenty of fora to ensure that we deal with the issues at the appropriate level of engagement, whether at the bottom tier or in meetings with the Prime Minister.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I would like to suggest something for the agenda for the next meeting. Could the Minister ask the Prime Minister—nicely—to put on the agenda ways of ensuring that money allocated by the Treasury for devolved areas is spent properly on those areas, not improperly on reserved areas?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

There is a clear political point there, but also a practical point. We must spend money for its intended purposes, which is why we have bodies such as the National Audit Office to ensure that taxpayers’ money is properly spent. We need to look into how we can have a similar regime for devolved Governments.

Minister for Intergovernmental Relations

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Monday 18th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

The noble Lord is right that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has a number of responsibilities, but he takes his ministerial responsibilities with regard to the union extremely seriously, with monthly meetings with all the devolved Governments and First Ministers. I also remind the noble Lord that the Prime Minister is the Minister for the Union and, at this moment, he is speaking to First Ministers. So that engagement is real, and we will continue to work very closely with all the devolved Governments.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, intergovernmental relations are a two-way street. Is the Minister aware that, in Scotland, the devolved Government are spending money on areas that are not devolved, including millions of pounds on overseas offices? Why are the UK Government afraid to bring them into line?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for raising this issue. It is quite clear that you need to have the competence to spend taxpayers’ money. The best way in which to rein them in is, of course, to win at the ballot box.

Tower Blocks: Cladding

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Wednesday 12th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, we made it a condition of accessing any form of government funding that building owners should go through all the routes of redress, in terms of looking at warranties and taking on areas where there has been poor construction practice, to ensure that remediation costs are not passed on to leaseholders.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

The Minister’s replies are entirely unsatisfactory. It is now nearly four years since 72 people died on the altar of private profit. Since then, there have been three further instances —in Barking, in Bolton and now this one in Poplar. It is not just a matter of cladding over 18 metres; it is much more than that. When will the Government fully fund all the measures necessary to make these buildings safe before more lives are lost?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I note the point that has been made, but it is interesting to note that, four years after Grenfell, two authorities are still discovering the existence potentially of additional buildings with aluminium composite material. Those audits are being conducted by Sheffield, which is looking at nine buildings, and Tower Hamlets, which is looking at a further six. The discovery of ACM-cladded high-rises four years after Grenfell is also a matter that is, frankly, beyond the Government’s control.