Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Act 2014 (Consequential Modification) Order 2020

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I too thank the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, for his excellent introduction. I also express some sympathy for him: having just answered the PNQ on Northern Ireland, he is now dealing with Scotland, yet he has no direct responsibility for either of them, unlike the noble Lord, Lord Duncan, had when he was in his former position.

The Government should sort this as quickly as possible. I echo what was said by my noble friend Lady Smith in the PNQ: this situation should not be allowed to continue. It is a matter between the UK Government and the Scottish Government, and there ought to be more contact and regular meetings between Scottish Ministers and UK Ministers. The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, will recall that at the start of the century, when I was Minister of State, we used to meet regularly—weekly, and sometimes more often—with Scottish Ministers. We had a discussion about free personal care with the DWP and the Scottish Government that we are dealing with now. These are important matters, and we need Ministers in Scotland and Northern Ireland to deal with them.

Returning to the order, I agree that the police are in the front line. It is outrageous that since 10 May, there have been over 100 coronavirus attacks on police. It is not always the perfect picture in Scotland that some in the Scottish Government like to portray. Restitution orders are going to be useful, principally, I hope, as a deterrent rather than bringing the money in. However, I have a few questions for the Minister, which I hope he will be able to answer. I have given him notice of one or two of them.

First, this is going to be quite a complicated procedure, and very difficult between the Scottish Government and the DWP. Is there any estimate of the cost of administering this, and how it compares with the actual money that will be brought in by the scheme? Secondly, will there be some arrangement for monitoring the scheme on a case-by-case basis—not just a blanket monitoring to see how it is operating, but monitoring the impact, as the noble Lord, Lord Wei, said, on the families of offenders? That is a very important point. The knock-on effect on the families of offenders could be very great indeed, and, as the noble Lord said, it could lead to some reoffending. It needs to be monitored very carefully. There need to be safeguards in relation to the unintended consequences of what is being proposed. Can the Minister indicate what the arrangements might be for reviewing this?

I hope that if the noble Viscount cannot answer these questions directly today, then he will take them up. Even though he does not have direct responsibility, he is answering on behalf of the UK Government, so I hope that he will take them up with the Scottish Government if necessary, and that if he cannot answer them today, he will write to me and to the other noble Lords participating in this debate.