Road Traffic Act 1988 (Alcohol Limits) (Amendment) Bill [HL]

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Friday 22nd April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

I am grateful to my noble friend for that helpful intervention and I share his view. Unhappily, many deaths, accidents and injuries still occur as a result of drinking and driving. As I have argued previously, there has been little change since 2012—in fact, there has been a plateau—and the Government’s current policies are not really making any great difference. Therefore, I believe it is time that the Government themselves—I am seeking to help them in any way I can—embraced and encouraged such a change. The fact is that the drinks and hospitality industries will have to face up to the fundamental shift in opinion and culture that is starting to take place.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

This has had a very damaging impact on the hospitality industry in Scotland, as the noble Lord said earlier. Will he tell the House how many jobs he would expect to be lost if his proposals were carried out?

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

I am grateful for that intervention but I cannot give a precise figure. However, if the noble Lord will be patient, I will come to tell him not only how the number of jobs in the hospitality industry will be secured but will, I hope, be increased.

The simple fact is that the drinks and hospitality industry will have to change its attitude, as it had to do with the smoking ban—when people talked about all the jobs that would disappear and said that it would be the end of the world when smoking in public places was stopped. The industry should not be plying drivers with alcohol but encouraging patrons instead to have a non-drinking driver. It should look to improve—this is where I come to the answer to the noble Lord’s question—its competitiveness to attract more customers than it is at present. It is not this legislation that is the biggest threat to the industry. The biggest threat is cheap booze that is sold in supermarkets and off-licences, which leads to people drinking more at home rather than going out. The industry’s competitiveness is, in the main, weak at the moment because it has to sell alcohol in hotels and pubs at quite high charges compared with supermarkets and off-licences. If, as the Prime Minister wanted, the Government were prepared to undertake and embrace higher minimum unit pricing to have a level playing field for competitiveness, the industry could look forward to getting more people back into pubs and clubs. They would not buy so much in off-licences and supermarkets because drink would no longer be so cheap there.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I would like to thank the noble Lord, Lord Brooke—that is what my notes say—but I extend my thanks to all noble Lords who have contributed to this Bill and debate. I will be brief.

As my noble friend Lord Cormack rightly pointed out, the substance of the amendments is to seek to clarify the language of the Bill following the changes which were previously approved in Committee, as the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, mentioned. As I have previously set out, although the Government’s position remains not to support this Bill to lower the drink-drive limit, these amendments are sensible and helpful clarifications to the language of the Bill. Let me reiterate that drink-driving remains a very important issue, and although the Government have no plans to lower the drink-drive limit, we will continue to support the police in their rigorous enforcement efforts against all dangerous drivers.

To pick up on one point about Scotland, as the noble Lord will be aware, and for the benefit of all noble Lords, of course we are looking very closely at the situation there. My honourable friend Andrew Jones, the Minister with responsibility for roads, is already in contact with the Scottish Government and they will be meeting in due course. We welcome any substantial evidence from the Scottish Government, and they can provide that at any time. However, I once again reiterate that it is not the Government’s position to lower the limit. That is really all I have to say.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

Before my noble friend sits down, will he perhaps indicate whether the Government have any view on the impact of this Bill on jobs, particularly in pubs and the hospitality industry? Of course, what it would mean is that people would no longer go to the pub at all, which has been the experience in Scotland. In looking at this, will he very carefully consider that balance? As far as the safety of motorists is concerned, will his department turn its attention to the scandal of people driving under the influence of drugs and not being brought to account for it, which seems to me to be a far greater problem than people driving within the legal limit at present?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As ever, my noble friend raises the important point about the wider economic impact. That is why the Government are considering their position in this regard—