Social Security

Debate between Lord Field of Birkenhead and Guy Opperman

Monday 4th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Guy Opperman]

My hon. Friend asks his customary astute question, with his deep knowledge of this issue. The reality of the Government’s approach is that we wish to address the increase to 8%, get to April 2019, address the degree of opt-outs that follow from the increase to 8% and, at that stage, consider where we are. We have already had the 2017 automatic enrolment review, which agrees that the limit will go down to the first pound, and that we will go down from 22 to 18 in terms of the working population. The key point is that we should get to 8%; we should get this country up to a situation where we have ever larger numbers of people being not only part of automatic enrolment, but in a situation where they are up to 8%. That is possibly not the entirety of where we should be going, but, without a shadow of a doubt, it is a massive step forward.

[Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Ind)]

If I may follow the hon. Member for Amber Valley (Nigel Mills), who is a member of the Work and Pensions Committee, the Government clearly should be worried about people opting out when there are big changes. However, would the Minister and his Department argue to his colleagues from the Treasury, who are sitting just by him, that we could more profitably use some of the huge subsidies that go to higher rate taxpayers for their pensions to pay the contributions of those who are low paid?

[Guy Opperman]

I am in absolutely no doubt that my esteemed colleagues from the Treasury will be taking due note of the right hon. Gentleman’s advice and recommendations on pension tax relief, as he is the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee. [Interruption.] They have encyclopaedic memories; they do not necessarily need to write particular words down, and they also have the benefit of Hansard. However, I am sure that the Chair of the Select Committee would agree that the primary purpose of auto-enrolment is to get to 8% and then to gain a proper understanding of where we are at that stage. There is a perfectly legitimate debate to be had across the House, on what is a cross-party policy formulated over 10 years, about where we then go in terms of employer contribution, employee contributions, the rates that one must go to and the tax relief that applies. That, I would suggest, is for another day. In those circumstances, I commend the orders to the House.